News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by hypeatei on Sunday November 09, 2025 @10:34PM (#45872105)
I'm of the opinion that things like shipbuilding don't really matter in times of war for countries with nuclear weapons. There would be dire consequences for anyone invading and/or blockading a nuclear armed country.

A lot of people seem to yearn for the "good old days" where we built giant, tangible things that did cool stuff. That's fine, but the "national security" arguments ring hollow as you're basically saying all institutions, intelligence agencies, defense agencies, etc. are asleep at the wheel if it truly is a threat... which I guess is possible but highly unlikely.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by ggm on Sunday November 09, 2025 @10:46PM (#45872197)
You seem to think nuclear weapons stop all forms of tension short of nuclear war but the evidence is strong that even nuclear armed parties do things which don't include nuclear weapons. India applies strategic pressures to it's neighbours including ones with nuclear weapons. They're bashing each other with sticks and stones on the border, to avoid pulling nuclear triggers.

There was an ad-blue shortage in Australia last year, we have no onshore refinery and got close to running out. The nearest one is Indonesia and we were in a number of trade disputes regarding lumpy skin diseases and cattle and sheep. It only takes one or two sore points for something like "sorry, we sold your ad-blue to somebody else" and the entire mining sector is shut down.

British strategic military thinking assumed its role in NATO was unchanging. The re-appraisal post Ukraine has been significant and I am sure it includes waking up the arms manufacturing sector, and the input side to that is heavy metals industry, which has unfortunately fallen in a hole because of under-capitalisation and world pricing and Gupta and the like now "own" the national steel plan to some extent.

You would think that kind of thing would have been thought about. Just making trains onshore instead of buying them in from overseas would have possibly demanded continual metals manufacturing and processing capacity, which kept furnaces alight and steel making to the fore.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by arcanemachiner on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:36AM (#45873813)
For anyone else wondering, "ad-blue" is another term for DEF (diesel exhaust fluid), which is a chemical used to decrease emissions from diesel engines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by Kubuxu on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:28AM (#45874879)
And DEF is ~33% urea in water.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by devilbunny on Monday November 10, 2025 @01:59PM (#45879464)
The purpose of diesel exhaust fluid is to decrease emissions, right? It’s not actually needed for engines to work. So in the case of something like the mining industry, crucial to the national economy, the government can just pass a temporary waiver. Or am I missing something?
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by palmotea on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:21AM (#45873319)
> I'm of the opinion that things like shipbuilding don't really matter in times of war for countries with nuclear weapons. There would be dire consequences for anyone invading and/or blockading a nuclear armed country.

The flaw in that annoyingly common logic is 1) countries are very reluctant to use nuclear weapons, and 2) any kind of nuclear escalation is an instant loss for your own side.

I personally don't think any country would resort to nuclear weapons in the case of an invasion or blockade, and certainly not a democratic one [1]. They may threaten, but I don't think they'd actually put that gun to their own head and pull the trigger.

[1] An autocratic one may use them when the leader is close to defeat as one last "f*ck you", because he doesn't serve his people, they serve him.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by generic92034 on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:13AM (#45873649)
> because he doesn't serve his people, they serve him.

I am not convinced the current breed of politicians in (more or less) democratic countries sees that differently.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by varjag on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:34AM (#45874918)
Right, it's sometimes hard to see the difference with democracy and authoritarianism if you never experienced the latter.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by generic92034 on Monday November 10, 2025 @11:27AM (#45877578)
Oh, please do not assume I would not be able to see differences between democracy and authoritarianism. I only said I doubt that there are big differences between some of the views of the respective leaders regarding the populace.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by rhubarbtree on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:24AM (#45873342)
We may add to that - the UK’s nuclear deterrent is onboard submarines.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by jack_tripper on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:28AM (#45873369)
That's also my thinking that nullifies a lot of the discussion here. Like why would anyone start a naval beef with the UK, given the UK's nuclear submarine fleet?
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by XorNot on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:39AM (#45873435)
It's not about starting a direct conflict, it's that blockading it can be done at a distance rather easily.

If ships can't get to the UK, or the foreign shipyards reduced to rubble - or outbid - then it's more effective and cost efficient then any direct kinetic action.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by jack_tripper on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:21AM (#45873706)
Submarine fleets will torpedo your blockade. No need to fire nukes.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by gpderetta on Monday November 10, 2025 @05:12AM (#45874419)
My understanding is that the UK currently has 5 attack submarines. Is that enough to break a blockade?

More are planned (the SSN-AUKUS), but it is probably still some time away.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by jack_tripper on Monday November 10, 2025 @05:50AM (#45874640)
That's around 100 torpedoes loaded in the water. Is that enough to break a blockade?
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by nradov on Monday November 10, 2025 @12:25PM (#45878254)
No, it's not nearly enough. The exact number of weapons onboard is largely irrelevant. At any given time only about one third of a nation's attack submarines can be out on active patrol while the others are in transit, undergoing maintenance, or working up. During a crisis they can maybe surge two thirds of the force for a few months but that isn't sustainable. Each submarine can only be in one place at a time and they're likely to take some losses against a competent adversary.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by jack_tripper on Monday November 10, 2025 @01:26PM (#45879064)
That's why my money(figuratively) is on Kraken Roboticss and Anduril's autonomous robot submarines. This will be the future of naval warfare.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by nradov on Monday November 10, 2025 @01:43PM (#45879278)
That's so naive. Those robot submarines will be useful for local defense but they lack the range, speed, and staying power to project power and protect sea lines of communication over thousands of miles on a sustained basis. The notion of doing that with robots remains firmly in the realm of science fiction today. Maybe in 30 years.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by XorNot on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:28AM (#45874887)
And my point is it's not about a physical blockade.

If you buy your ships from half way around the world, then the shipyards can be destroyed before you get anywhere near them. And certainly now preventing that is politically commiting to a war on the other side of the planet which may not immediately effect you, but is likely to eventually.

But the other part is: you don't have to physically do anything. You could deny shipping to your opponent by someone just outbidding you for the output. Why not? You're already outsourcing so you're cost sensitive, and guaranteed volume is cat nip to manufacturers - no amount of strategic alliance wording is going to save you if an adversary reliably buys 10x as much.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by lb1lf on Monday November 10, 2025 @10:09AM (#45876698)
A blockade need not be enforced in situ.

Say, with satellite coverage to find out where any blockade runners are and a lot of cruise missiles you could enforce a blockade from a thousand miles away.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by mr_toad on Monday November 10, 2025 @04:04PM (#45880891)
That would be extremely difficult to defend against unless you have enough ships to defend every single convoy. WWII showed how helpless big surface ships were against u-boats in defending shipping.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by rusk on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:44AM (#45873468)
Nukes are useless as anything other than a self destruct mechanism. A gunman pointing at your head with himself in the line of fire.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by throwaway290 on Monday November 10, 2025 @04:10AM (#45874041)
Tell that to Ukraine!
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by rusk on Monday November 10, 2025 @05:14AM (#45874432)
Russia aren’t going to use nukes on their own doorstep. That’s a a NATO problem. It’s like openly knifing somebody in public repeatedly while holding the would be hero’s at bay with a gun. Yes this is an actual thing that happened in the UK about 10 years ago.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by scott_w on Monday November 10, 2025 @05:55AM (#45874684)
Um... Russia's doctrine during the Cold War was to turn Poland into a nuclear wasteland to stop Nato advancing through it. At the time, Poland was a part of the USSR.

What Russia considers "a buffer zone" is really "inferior peoples we can atomise without having to open a new conflict with a foreign power." To be clear, I use the term "inferior peoples" as seen from the Russian point of view.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by kelipso on Monday November 10, 2025 @09:35AM (#45876423)
Poland was part of the Warsaw Pact but it was never in the USSR.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by greedo on Monday November 10, 2025 @01:42PM (#45879266)
You've got it reversed...

Soviet doctrine (not Russian) was to use tactical nuclear weapons immediately during their attempt to invade West Germany and march to the Atlantic.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by scott_w on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:39PM (#45879950)
I’ve been looking and you are correct, though I do recall seeing something different, so perhaps what I read was misinterpreting the Seven Days to the Rhine plan.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by palmotea on Monday November 10, 2025 @11:57AM (#45877922)
> Edit: it's not about throwing nukes at each other... It's about having nukes that you can use if someone invades you.

Russia has nukes and got invaded (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_campaign), did it use them?

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by throwaway290 on Monday November 10, 2025 @12:45PM (#45878506)
having nukes doesn't mean when you invade a nuke-free country and it will just fall over for you. but not having nukes means a country with nukes can feel comfy invading you....
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by jack_tripper on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:20AM (#45873702)
Nuclear submarines as in nuclear propulsion submarines. And nukes are useful because you never need to fire them.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by rusk on Monday November 10, 2025 @05:11AM (#45874416)
That’s the point, and you’re in big trouble if that’s what you’re actually dependent upon is something you can’t use. Nukes are only for the other nukes. The bit of butter, so they say, Betty bought to make the bitter butter better.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by HPsquared on Monday November 10, 2025 @04:18AM (#45874104)
It's a lot of reliance placed on one rather complex system. See "Trident Missile Test Fails for Second Time in a Row" (Feb 2024)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68355395

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by greedo on Monday November 10, 2025 @01:40PM (#45879238)
Of all the current nuclear weapons delivery systems, Trident is probably the most reliable. Minuteman might be up there due to being a very very mature system, but I would take Trident in a heart beat.

https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/online-analysis/2024/03...

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by DecoySalamander on Monday November 10, 2025 @04:58AM (#45874353)
> An autocratic one may use them when the leader is close to defeat as one last "f*ck you"

I don't think that could realistically work. The suicidal leader would need buy-in not only from the military command, but also from the numerous operators responsible for preparing and conducting the launches. Everyone involved would be presented wiath a choice between signing death sentenses for themselves and their loved ones or trying their luck with whatever enemy they were facing.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by vintermann on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:13AM (#45874798)
> An autocratic one may use them when the leader is close to defeat as one last "f*ck you", because he doesn't serve his people, they serve him.

Too bad it's hard to find a country which isn't autocratic by this standard in practice.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by mrguyorama on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:20PM (#45879700)
Even Putin did not fire nukes when Ukraine launched a fairly successful invasion of their soil.

US did not fire nukes during Korea or Vietnam despite several high up people wanting to repeatedly.

USSR did not fire nukes the several times they thought the US had launched. USSR did not fire the nukes during the Cuban Missile Crisis even though Fidel was adamant that they be allowed to sacrifice themselves to destroy the US.

Somehow, that generation was able to maintain a sober view of nuclear weapons. Even as Nixon himself drunkenly insisted we nuke most of the world, he was ignored.

As that generation has aged out, it seems like that respect may be going away. Trump wants to start detonating nukes again. There may be a genuine reason, like maybe we have lost confidence in our simulations and models to build new nukes and desperately need to build the next generation of deterrence, but maybe he's just a dumbass. China is going back to building a shitload of nukes, even though they had plenty. Geopolitical conflict is back on the menu the world over, and everyone is itching to claim some century old grievance to go beat up a neighbor. The Ukraine invasion and muffled response proves to everyone that if you don't have nukes, you are not going to be protected, while North Korea proves that if you do have nukes, you can do almost anything you want.

I think a nuke will be used this century in anger. I think the world will be too gunshy to respond adequately, or too split along some axis, and there will be geopolitical bickering about who is the bad guy for using N+1 nukes in a conflict.

We will have some great new video footage though.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by purple_turtle on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:58AM (#45873555)
Having nuclear weapons does not give you immunity to all threats. Quite recently we had a case of nuclear state being partially occupied by a state without nuclear weapons.

And even in that case use of nuclear weapons would be unacceptable escalation and they used regular army to (mostly) kick them out and carry on with their earlier invasion on other parts of the front.

(I am speaking about Kursk if anyone is confused)

Use of nuclear weapons when you are mildly threatened is not viable. In the same way as responding to a pickpockets with an artillery barrage is not viable.

"We do not need police as we have an artillery" is equivalent of "there is no need for any other weapons if you have nukes".

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by bootsmann on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:40AM (#45873845)
To be fair, the credibility of the Russian nuclear stack is questionable at this point. Its unclear how much capacity survived the past 30 years of graft. We have developed nations struggling to maintain theirs without layers of blatant corruption weaved into the process.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by gambiting on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:47AM (#45873894)
Even if so, I don't think anyone doubts that they do have functional nuclear weapons. Maybe not all 5000 of them, but definitely enough to use them if they want to.

I think the whole narrative of "well maybe Russian nukes don't actually work" is unhelpful - if they wanted to use nuclear weapons they would and the weapons used would work. I think people sometimes think Russia is North Korea experimenting with sticks to make fire(and even they have managed to get something working) - despite the massive corruption their nuclear industry and the engineering corps are functional and it's in my mind without a doubt that there is a stockpile of weapons which would work if needed.

Russia is just not suicidal enough to actually use them in the current conflict, luckily.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by varjag on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:40AM (#45874959)
While I generally agree with your point presenting Russia as a decision making entity is dangerously misleading. You're not dealing with democracy or even 1970s committee-run USSR anymore.

Sure Putin has broad support and a number of companions but he remains unilateral, undisputed, unchallenged decision maker. Assuming otherwise brings you back into the fold of rational actor argument which has proven a fallacy for some time now. Yes Putin is not suicidal today, although the chances he'll outlive total retaliation strike. But he may feel differently tomorrow, waking up in a bad mood.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by kelipso on Monday November 10, 2025 @09:41AM (#45876476)
This is just feel good nonsense… Russia has alliances or agreements with multiple major and minor countries including China. I don’t understand why people post these cope posts online unless it’s just to make themselves feel good.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by varjag on Monday November 10, 2025 @10:50AM (#45877073)
Aside from you apparently replying to some other comment than mine: Russia honors no treaties or alliances except when it's convenient.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by kelipso on Monday November 10, 2025 @11:05AM (#45877253)
I am replying to you comment. You are doing the exact same thing again. Saying “Russia honors no treaties or alliances except when it's convenient” is just so you can feel better about whatever. It’s just not how reality and geopolitics work…
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by varjag on Monday November 10, 2025 @01:52PM (#45879381)
I am replying to you comment.

Please. Your reply had nothing to do with the context of my comment. I in fact gave you a benefit of doubt that you're not just a very quantized LLM.

As to the trustworthiness let's tally:

- Khasavyurt Accords. Breached by Russia.

- New START Treaty. Breached by Russia.

- Armenian request under allied auspices of CSTO: not honored by Russia.

- Russia-Ukraine Friendship Treaty, Budapest Memorandum, Border Treaty: breached by Russia.

It's clear you speak very confidently on the subject you have zero clue about.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by kelipso on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:13PM (#45880354)
You could come up with nitpicky stuff like this for any country. Sure, make yourself feel better about calling people bots and calling Putin crazy, but you’re just living in your own reality at this point.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by varjag on Tuesday November 11, 2025 @03:50AM (#45885338)
Breaching 6 major peace treaties and alliances (that I just remember of) in span of 30 years is not nitpicking and no you can't come up with this for "any country". I also didn't call Putin crazy anywhere but feel like perhaps you come to the right conclusion yourself here.

China also ain't dumb. It would play along but there is no misunderstanding about the nature of any agreement with Russia.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by dh2022 on Monday November 10, 2025 @07:00PM (#45882530)
From the book Guns of August, page 106, chapter 10, negotiations re: Turkey’ neutrality in Aug 1914. I will just leave this here:

“On August 13 Foreign Minister Sazonov proposed to France to offer Turkey a solemn guarantee of her territorial integrity and a promise of “great financial advantages at the expense of Germany” in return for her neutrality. He was actually willing to include a promise that Russia would abide by the guarantee “even if we are victorious.”

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by lenkite on Tuesday November 11, 2025 @11:38AM (#45889382)
> Russia honors no treaties or alliances except when it's convenient.

Russia has a strong historical track record of honoring its treaties and commitments with India and many other Asian nations.

Also, one could point at the US and apply your statement more accurately.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by varjag on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:29AM (#45897699)
That's the convenient part. There is no shared border or waters; there is no conflicting interests to make a compromise over on the paper. They are not in a military alliance. There isn't really anything to uphold. And the pivot to India started only with Sino-Soviet split.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by energy123 on Monday November 10, 2025 @07:01AM (#45875105)
I never understood this line of thinking. It doesn't matter if graft ruined 95% of Russia's nukes. Your city is still gone.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by purple_turtle on Monday November 10, 2025 @07:08AM (#45875160)
That is nonsense. Even if (optimistically) 90% are nonoperational, what it would change?
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by bluGill on Monday November 10, 2025 @08:24AM (#45875740)
There is open evidente that Russia invested in keeping their nukes working. They gave more control over the military to leaders of the nuke program after the Soviet union fell. There are US - Russia nuke inspection treaties (only reciently are they ending) - while the results are classified those with access to them are behaving as if they think they are still working.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by bootsmann on Monday November 10, 2025 @02:05PM (#45879532)
They still haven’t managed a successful launch of their new silo missile. If you were the US inspector, would you tell Russia if you thought their nukes don’t work?
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by bluGill on Monday November 10, 2025 @04:37PM (#45881277)
They have plenty of old missiles. And we never know when they are not launching because they want to hide something, or when they launched something to test how a failure happens.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by HPsquared on Monday November 10, 2025 @04:21AM (#45874137)
People like to imagine a big obvious threat that you respond to in kind, but what about a gradual creeping encroachment aka salami tactics?

Classic scene from "Yes, Prime Minister": https://youtu.be/yg-UqIIvang

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by rswail on Monday November 10, 2025 @07:30AM (#45875305)
Voted up just for the reference to Yes Prime Minister, one of the UK's best contributions to political education and entertainment.

On the other hand, there's Sir Humphrey's opinion on Trident.

"It's the nuclear deterrent Harrods would sell."

https://youtu.be/XyJh3qKjSMk?si=S8wpuTSnFsRUZGrf&t=87

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by gambiting on Monday November 10, 2025 @03:42AM (#45873857)
>>There would be dire consequences for anyone invading and/or blockading a nuclear armed country.

Just a reminder that Ukraine is currently at war with nuclear equipped Russia and it could absolutely use more ships, more tanks, more aircraft, more bombs, more guns, more drones and everything else that forms traditional warfare. It's clearly not like countries will immediately go from zero to nuclear weapons in any conflict.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by vintermann on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:11AM (#45874786)
Bah, I'm of the opinion that if the intelligence agencies were asleep at the wheel, that might well be an improvement.

But I do think that you're right in that the time of the frigate and aircraft carrier is over, and we'll all more likely to die either from a nuclear missile or from a 50 gram autonomous drone. I agree: the national security argument is hollow.

There are other reasons to build ships though, and some degree of self-sufficiency is always sensible.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by energy123 on Monday November 10, 2025 @10:03AM (#45876645)
Attack drones aren't that useful if the two countries are far apart. Consider the 12 Day War between Israel-Iran. Iran's Shahed drones weren't useful, because the slow travel speeds and the long distance meant that Israel could shoot them down at a leisurely pace while they closed the gap. So even their purpose as a saturation attack was not met.

But in the Ukraine-Russia war, Iran's Shahed drones, which are being manufactured by Russia with small adjustments, are proving useful, because they're close, so saturation attacks can actually work.

For the US's power projection into the Pacific, due to modern SIGINT capabilities, aircraft carriers with stealth bombers are even stronger than 20 years ago due to being able to put those JDAMs onto an actually valuable target. It's basically the power of Zeus, to kill whatever you want whenever you want, unlike in the Vietnam era where you have to carpet bomb everything.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by vintermann on Monday November 10, 2025 @10:26AM (#45876873)
All you need to do is to smuggle in a little box. Ukraine already did it in Russia.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by energy123 on Monday November 10, 2025 @10:45AM (#45877020)
Granted that my comment was an over-simplification. Israel did get use from reconnaissance Hermes drones in the 12 Day War, possibly launched from Azerbaijan, for another example to add to the list. But as a broad gesture I believe the sentiment is correct. Strategic depth shifts the utility from saturation with attack drones and SRBMs, like what Russia is doing to Ukraine, and what Iran couldn't replicate with MRBMs due to the distance ... to the classic F16 missile trucks to deliver JDAMs with F35s for SEAD.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by barrkel on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:25AM (#45874867)
Direct kinetic war between nuclear powers is pretty much unthinkable - mutual annihilation if either core territory is threatened. Instead, wars happen through proxies or direct attacks on non-nuclear powers, and then you need the ability to project power short of a nuclear response.

Russia can't prevent aid to Ukraine with nuclear blackmail. The US can't defend Taiwan without ships - it can't use nuclear blackmail itself. And if it doesn't defend Taiwan, not only is Western prosperity threatened, but the entire structure of allies that the US built after WW2 crumbles into a chaos of small parties more easily picked apart.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by energy123 on Monday November 10, 2025 @07:38AM (#45875353)
Pursuing total defeat is unthinkable, but not pursuing limited gains with clear signalling to the enemy about the objectives.
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by dgroshev on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:49AM (#45875020)
We just had a direct kinetic war between nuclear powers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_India–Pakistan_conflict
Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by energy123 on Monday November 10, 2025 @06:51AM (#45875032)
Nuclear weapons are overrated. Multiple countries already invaded a nuclear power (1973 Yom Kippur War) and nothing happened. If Egypt wasn't afraid of nukes, what makes you so confident that your future enemy will be?

It's an empathy gap. You are rightly cautious of nukes, but you then project that mindset onto belligerents, which is the mistake. A very important rule in strategic planning is to avoid projecting your own calculations onto the enemy.

Even nuclear powers need to meet the pacing challenge and be able to win, or at least be able to have enough asymmetric capabilities in the arsenal to add to deterrence, and force a frozen conflict if necessary.

Re:How the UK lost its shipbuilding industry by tim333 on Monday November 10, 2025 @12:48PM (#45878555)
Even without nuclear weapons, shipping seems quite vulnerable to naval drones and cruise missiles these days.