For me, I'm a bit of a screen junkie with social anxiety. One of my blockers was negative self-talk. I would think, "They're going to get angry. They're going to ignore you. They're busy. You're going to waste their time."

I started replacing that with images of the person being interested and delighted by the interaction. That helped, but I also knew that wasn't realistic if I just walked up and blurted out, "Hi, I'm an isolated remote dev and I'd like to talk." Someone might be sympathetic, but I didn't want sympathy; I wanted people to have fun. So I started using the techniques I mentioned.

This can all be learned from books on small talk, personality psychology, social dynamics, etc. But unfortunately, it's rarely talked about or taught, at least in my circles. And people are suffering as a consequence.

Isolation has a feedback that makes it hard to break out of once you're in really deep. The more desperately lonely you are, the worse your social skills.

Strangers are strange when you're a stranger.

i cant believe anymore that "negative self-talk is bad for you" has to lead to "the negative self-talk is false." because frequently it's exists as a defense mechanism. it's likely i've just trapped in the spiral too long. but i don't have enough counterexamples to disprove them. the longer i chose to go on the more counterexamples i accumulated until it was too much.

from this I concluded that I needed a type of relationship closer to a steward...but there's a reason people beyond a certain age don't seek out those relationships. it creates a power imbalance that is ruinous. i didn't know this. i spent years in that kind of friendship. i paid the price. i do feel like i wasted their time.

Timing and location is super important too though I haven't figured out the best places. Haven't had much luck at bars and stuff despite that being a common suggestion. Everyone seems to be there already with a social group and have zero interest in meeting a stranger.

"How to talk to anyone" would be my first recommendation.

He explained it is a skill, which needs to be learned, while many people use an app because it reduces their anxiety.

I first developed coping skills for work situations in my first internship. Thanks to a great manager who recognized some of my issues and was able to give contextual help. After that my professional life was better, but I struggled in social and academic contexts. Eventually, I started to get the social/relationship part down but only by being forced to because I moved to another country for a job.

Without these events, I'm not sure I'd have developed these skills. I still struggle and eventually pursued medication. I suspect some people have an undiagnosed condition, but the majority have limits to their emotional development, challenges from their upbringing, etc. that are very individual to resolve.

Unless there is some forcing function, I think the majority of individuals will fall into paths which don't help them. Then it's even harder to get onto a path where it's /just/ a matter of "developing skills".

And it's not even necessarily much of a skill, it's more spending the time and effort to find people you connect with (and being open to the people you do connect with).

It can be done over the net too, but in-person is better while the net has been actively and intentionally made worse to monetize addiction.

If you want a girlfriend/boyfriend you start by making friends with people. Then you will notice some of your friends are of your sexually compatible gender, which means you may have friends that want to have sex.

Also helps to avoid listening to incel/femcel, PUA, and similar bullshit that actively makes the listener repellent. A lot of women for example will ghost at the first whiff of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson adjacent thinking, and as a man I'd do the same at the first whiff of the kind of stuff you hear on the angry womens' subreddits. I don't want someone with a head full of influencer poison.

A major reason to get off the apps is because the apps (social media and similar) reward toxicity and exploitation and are structurally designed to be maximally addictive, meaning they're made to keep you on them not talking to other people. Social media stopped being social around 2012 really. I call them tobacco companies of the mind.

Not a good advice if your friends group are the same sex with you, which tends to be the case for a lot of people.

You gotta fish where the fish are.

Like, if you're unemployed and you want a job, you don't first go out making friends, hoping that once you become friends one of them can give you a job. You get a job by looking for a job and applying to jobs. Sure, depending on where you live and who you engage with you, might luck out and meet someone who can have a job for you but that's not the norm and you don't want to leave your survival to that random chance.

Similarly, if you want a romantic relationship you need to engage in dating activities specifically designed to maximize the protentional of meeting a romantic partner, not in friend making activities hoping one of them will be your next romantic partner because you might be wasting a lot of time with no returns.

Actually, I think the opposite is better: Engaging in dating activates can actually net you some friends along the way if the romantic part doesn't click.

Maybe it's just me, but my luck was women only wanted me when I was too busy or having too much fun to go looking. I have a terrible poker face and if it seems like I'm looking for love then for whatever reason in my individual case it seems to be taken as a sign I don't deserve it. Of course if someone was offering, I might free up the time.

Not sure how common this is, but I've heard same from others.

I know almost none such people. Do you see how anecdotes work? Almost everyone I know met their SOs either in college, via online dating or at work, and rarely at a sports group or through a common friend gathering.

>If you have a friend group with a healthy mix of gender+sexual orientations

So a friend group that isn't gender mixed is unhealthy? I think friend groups form (as adults) organically via matching interest and personalities, they're not guaranteed to be mixed gender, especially if you're a male into male dominated jobs and hobbies. What now? Do I kick out Bob from my friends group and tell him due to DEI requirements, his position needs to be filled by a female in order to achieve a "healthy mix"?

>those people know other people, then you have a good shot at finding somebody you gel with.

Just because people know people doesn't automatically mean more dates for you. A lot of those people might already be in relationships or just incompatible with you romantically or even socially. Not every new person you get to meet will want to be your date or even your friend.

You're underestimating how many things need to fall into place in order to meet your SO "from other people". It's a lot more luck than things you can control.

> A friend invites you to their friends party and you spend some time talking to people.

I think your PoV and advice in entirely skewed towards college/early 20's dating when everyone's single and throwing parties.

Also, when I said parties that includes potlucks, D&D sessions, going to the movies, book clubs, etc.

I also did not mean to imply that a sausage party was by definition an unhealthy way to hang. You do you.

And by the way, I'm in my 30s.

Also either male dominated activities or non existent in my area. Hence why dating apps and bars/clubs are popular.

> going to the movies

BTW, How are you meeting your potential date by going to the movies? Dunno about you but whenever I went to the movie people just watch the movies, not talking to others. How do you flirt there?

I've been married for a long time but I've seen enough of today's dating scene from the outside in and heard enough about it from people in it to think it really is worse than when I was dating in the 2000s. I think the reason is the normalization of this PUA meat market mentality, which has come in part from influencers pushing these ideas into the culture and in part from the nature of dating apps (especially Tinder) and how they encourage it.

https://www.engadget.com/2015-05-22-meat-your-match-with-thi...

There's always been a meat market aspect to dating of course, but we've turned it to eleven and taken away the human part entirely. On top of this we've slathered a layer of toxic gender stereotypes received by way of shitty grifter self help gurus.

I feel like my wedding was one of the last flights out of Saigon.

It's a figure of speech, not a literal realty. If you can't distinguish them I'm sorry for you.

>I think the reason is the normalization of this PUA meat market mentality

What if the PUA mentality is the effect and not the cause? Simply look at the statistics on how harshly women rate men on tinder vs the other way around and it might sink in who the meat market is.

ugh at the huge proportion of humanity that's like this, though

The real "red pill" is disconnecting from the matrix of social media, influencers, and PUA/MGTOW/incel (or their female equivalents, which do exist) stuff and being human. The "matrix" is monetized, manipulative, addictive social media and apps. Influencers are people who have aligned themselves intentionally with this matrix to ride on it and monetize you.

Wasn't that how it was in the movie? Blue pill == stay connected to the matrix, red pill == go to the real world.

I fear sometimes that sociopaths have inherited the earth.

I mostly meant to say that there seems to be something wrong with society at large and that it's leaking into our language. I view it in terms of psychological framing (or something like it). We use these very utilitarian and transactional phrases more and more frequently, and I suspect it may reflect a deeper change in the way we think about others.

Are you sure.

I think Only Fans was growing pretty rapidly before Covid and before AI.

If I want a cute furry girl to scream at me that spaces are better than tabs, so i'm worthless coder, I'm not getting that in regular 'in-person' socialization.