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Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by profsummergig on Monday October 21, 2024 @09:05PM (#41910192)
In the Ramanujan story, a true MVP is G.H. Hardy. He read letters from some random unknown guy (a savage "native" no less!) half the world away, and took them seriously. And then organized resources to have that guy travel to England. A true MVP. All the others Ramanujan wrote to ignored him (understandably so). Such a tragedy that he died so young.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by paulddraper on Monday October 21, 2024 @10:34PM (#41910653)
If it had not been for Hardy, we would know a fraction of what R did.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by kumarm on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @01:22AM (#41911432)
If you want to understand how human potential was wasted in old world, Ramanujan belongs to a caste in India that is only caste that is supposed to be educated (Representing probably < 5% of population) in those days.

Ramanujan short life itself is a loss to the world, Imagine how many Ramanujan's were ignored where there is no G.H. Hardy and what about Ramanujans in the other 95%?

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by maeil on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @02:29AM (#41911737)
In the New World, the Ramanujans' lives are spent optimizing high-frequency trading, ads or video recommendation algorithms. This is arguably even worse for society than them not being discovered altogethrt.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by fragmede on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @02:38AM (#41911782)
Arguably. Assuming that's actually where they end up, they earn lots of money and they get to choose what they want to do with it. We should force them to be mathematicians if they didn't want to be?

The other version in the West is he moves to rural Montana and sends bombs through the mail.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by ImHereToVote on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @03:36AM (#41912054)
Those bombs might have done more good than his potential math career. Considering we just had our first AI millionaire. Perhaps there is hope for humanity to wake up.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by sealeck on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @05:47AM (#41912715)
> The other version in the West is he moves to rural Montana and sends bombs through the mail.

There might be a middle ground between the two?

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by BobaFloutist on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:42AM (#41914798)
I think they're talking about specifically the Unabomber, who was known to be a math genius too.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by sealeck on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @01:06PM (#41916344)
I'm aware of that.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by mandmandam on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:34AM (#41913261)
> Assuming that's actually where they end up, they earn lots of money and they get to choose what they want to do with it. We should force them to be mathematicians if they didn't want to be?

I think that if you tried you could imagine a world where Ramanujans are both supported and respected with nice lives, while also contributing to the future of the species rather than helping dig our own grave.

> The other version in the West is he moves to rural Montana and sends bombs through the mail.

Why in the world would those be the only two options?? What a profoundly strange thing to say.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by fragmede on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @01:52AM (#41922199)
You mean a world where someone like Terence Tao gets to be a professor of mathematics at UCLA, where he holds the James and Carol Collins Chair in the College of Letters and Sciences?

That brilliant geniuses have chosen corporate America and to not go into academia is yours and mine and the world's loss, but a defining feature of the Western world is that they get to make that choice for themselves.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by mandmandam on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @07:20AM (#41923838)
> a defining feature of the Western world is that they get to make that choice for themselves.

... As if people outside the West have no self-determination? Pretty questionable, on multiple levels. And another indication of absurdly binary thinking/rhetoric. Good luck with that.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by HarHarVeryFunny on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @09:54AM (#41914304)
People like Ramanujan are on a different planet compared to your everyday PhD working stiffs. There's smart (PhD), there's genius (Einstein, Feynman, von Neumann), and then there are freaks of nature like Ramanujan.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by mangodrunk on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:00AM (#41914964)
Ramanujan is obviously very gifted and was able to do exceptionally well given his circumstances, but to put him higher than those that you listed is wrong to me. There are many more mathematicians who solved problems that have more impact and those that started new branches of math. Ramanujan is overrated in my opinion.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by HarHarVeryFunny on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:21AM (#41915176)
I couldn't comment on the impact of his work, which anyways is evidentially still unfolding, but the WAY he seems to have worked is just bizarre - coming up with these deep baffling series formulae offered without proof. His mind seems to have worked in an extraordinary way.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by n4r9 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @12:42PM (#41916095)
It's true that the unconscious way he came about his theorems puts him in a different category to other famous names. But I wouldn't rank him as highly as Von Neumann. That man made groundbreaking results in the foundations of mathematics, pure and applied mathematics, early computer science, quantum mechanics, economics, and more. I think Von Neumann might arguably be the most significant genius of the 20th Century, paralleled in history only perhaps by the likes of Newton and Leibniz.

Einstein made a few extremely valuable insights in theoretical physics, but I'd say the sheer breadth of comparable work that Von Neumann did across multiple fields makes him more outstanding.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by 400thecat on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @06:58AM (#41923747)
yes, but the contrast is striking: Von Neumann had privileged upbringing and education Just imagine what what Ramanujan could have been if he grew up in Von Neumann household
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by mangodrunk on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @02:50PM (#41928156)
Ramanujan wasn’t poor. He went to school and had access to many math books which he studied and was recognized as a child prodigy early on.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by mangodrunk on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @04:07PM (#41918163)
He studied very hard and was exceptionally gifted, it wasn’t a mystery.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by Der_Einzige on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:07AM (#41914449)
I'm an atheist, but why not take Ramanujan at his word when he says that god(s) gives him his equations?

I for one would ask him what we could do to make it easier for him to listen to the voice of god(s) rather than say "well akshually..."

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by HarHarVeryFunny on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:23AM (#41914618)
Well, he's dead, so there's that ...

I'm not sure there's much you can do to help someone at this level, other than perhaps take away outside distractions.

It's not remotely clear how Ramanujan's mind worked, or whether he really knew himself. He seems to have been a lot more highly functioning than an idiot savant, but still operating at a level that is hard to comprehend. Was this an expression of humility or devotion by Ramanujan, or was he just expressing his own lack of understanding of how his mind worked?

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by regularfry on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:57AM (#41914932)
There's a parallel there to Feynman, if you squint a bit. He seems to have been synaesthetic in a way that let him use the sensory part of his brain as a maths coprocessor, and he didn't understand it himself.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by HarHarVeryFunny on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:10AM (#41915074)
Feymann seems more understandable. He wanted to understand everything from first principles and derive it all himself, and spent a lifetime doing so, building himself up. He developed a huge repertoire of insights and mathematical tricks/approaches that could be brought to bear on whatever he put his mind to... It seems like he trained his mind to become what it was. The end result was of course incredible, and he would instantly or within hours see solutions to problems that colleagues had been stuck on for months.

Feynmann, like von Neumann, also seems more approachable/understandable in that he wasn't just operating at genius level, but was also a regular fun loving guy (strip clubs, bongo drums, safe hacking and all). Von Neumann and some of his Hungarian peers were famously referred to as "The Martians", but it's really Ramanujan who seems like the alien.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by hilux on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:52PM (#41919979)
Do you know the saying "comparison is the thief of joy"?

It was intended to apply to oneself, but seems just as true when appreciating the genius of others. No need to diminish von Neumann, etc., AND doing so just diminishes your own credibility.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by elgenie on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @03:12AM (#41911943)
Ramanujan himself survived childhood smallpox and died at just 32 from what's thought to be complications from an earlier bout with dysentery. But he had lucked out in that he was born male in an urban setting in a high caste, with access to education, textbooks, and the language of the imperial core, and managed to make it to adulthood at all.

“I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” ~ Stephen Jay Gould

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by scotty79 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @06:24AM (#41912902)
If we individual makeup was so irrelevant we wouldn't have just had me Ramanujan so far. Although I agree that Einstein is probably very unremarkable and was mostly the right (genius) person in the right place at the right time in history of science to marry together things other people figured out and sprinkle some unique framing onto that.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by BobaFloutist on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:44AM (#41914817)
It's not that individual makeup is so irrelevant, it's that if we assume (potential) Einsteins and Ramanujans follow a normal distribution (or really any random distribution), then the fact that so many people in the world live in situations where any genius will simply never be noticed means we are necessarily missing out on the vast majority of them.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by thwori23423423 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @02:57AM (#41911870)
> Ramanujan belongs to a caste in India that is only caste that is supposed to be educated (Representing probably < 5% of population) in those days.

This is a late missionary-colonial myth that has been "secularized" by the South-Asia studies dept. in their eternal pursuit of destroying Indian civilization. The British, thankfully, judiciously collected records to prove that this is a big fat lie.

In fact, their records not only show that most village schools were majorly filled with 'Shudras', but also that the equivalent of 'grad-schools' had 'Shudra' teachers.

Hardly surprising since Aryabhata, perhaps a greater Mathematician, and the progenitor of Calculus itself, was one of the said 'Shudras' (atleast certainly not a "evil dirty hook-nosed" Brahmin).

Fascinating though how the cunning Jew meme lives on in so many ways... The Nazi-esque DMK that runs Tamil Nadu was very fond of this as well, and wanted to massacre his tribe too like the Nazis (except ofc. when so-called 'paapans' are great well-known folks like Ramanujan, or say the CEO/CTOs of Google). Unsuprisingly, avowed Nazis like this (there are enough records of the founder being a great admirer of Hitler and of his 'final-solution' - after WW2 ended), like in Ukraine are great friends of the Western establishment.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by rishav_sharan on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @03:49AM (#41912129)
Can you share any links which can help me read up more on this?

Also, a cursory search on internet doesn't brings anything conclusive about Aryabhata being a Shudra.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by aguaviva on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @03:29AM (#41912022)
Unsuprisingly, avowed Nazis like this ... like in Ukraine are great friends of the Western establishment.

Who are you referring to, specifically?

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by ImHereToVote on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @03:41AM (#41912088)
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by aguaviva on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @04:21AM (#41912282)
Except the groups the article refers to are quite marginal, have no influence in government, are a certainly not "great friends of the Western establishment".

Basically a propaganda piece, designed to push your buttons. And not surprisingly, published originally in RT.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by ImHereToVote on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:48AM (#41913345)
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by aguaviva on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @12:29PM (#41915976)
No one has time to follow your random links. If you can't put what you have to say about a topic in your own words -- then you don't have anything to say.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by ImHereToVote on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @02:01PM (#41916921)
And the goalposts, they are a-changin.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by aguaviva on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @03:39PM (#41917914)
I don't see any goal to your posts at all, other than to poke people with purely emotional imagery.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by ponector on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @04:57AM (#41912447)
What a piece of Russian-funded propaganda.

That is funny how russians claim everyone of their enemy is a Nazi.

While real white supremacists with swastika tattoos are fighting in the Russian side, just to have an opportunity to make money while doing atrocities.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by ImHereToVote on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:48AM (#41913346)
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by uncharted9 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @04:40AM (#41912357)
This is such a common and dangerous rhetoric, which has been repeated millions of times in India today, that people are willing to believe that one community has wickedly tried to subjugate everyone by denying them the right to education. But this is completely false. The early government records of British India themselves attempt to record detailed demographic records of the communities that studied in the early 'modern' schools. And no, the Brahmins didn't have a monopoly.

This is similar to another popular narrative that no girl received an education until some sympathetic Englishman in partnership with a local woman allowed girls to go to school. What a load of BS.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @04:59AM (#41912459)
This is why education and opportunities should be available for all, regardless of social / economic status. I reaped the benefits from that in the Netherlands where the government paid for most of my education (bachelor equivalent) and consequent professional life (white collar / middle class), instead of staying in my parents' / ancestors' "class" (blue collar / working class).

But people in the upper classes don't like that, so they're telling working class people that people even worse off are after their jobs.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by ykrishnan on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @05:01AM (#41912472)
> ...only caste that is supposed to be educated...

Tall claim.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by 1024core on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:43AM (#41915446)
People in the West love to attribute everything in India to caste.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by gen_greyface on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @06:24AM (#41912900)
caste system in india is an evil that persists even today, and is a complex topic. majority of the indian-origin users on hackernews or people in the IT community are very likely upper castes. see [1] If you are interested to learn more about the caste system in india it is recommended to get your facts from multiple sources. start from [2]

[1] https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674987883 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by cubefox on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:48AM (#41913343)
People from a higher caste tend to have higher IQ, see e.g. https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Lynn-Cheng-2...

If you mix populations with different mean IQ together, you get an average. And then you get fewer people with exceptionally high IQ like Ramanujan, because IQ is approximately normally distributed. Even a small difference in means makes a large difference at the tails.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by gen_greyface on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @09:05AM (#41913835)
I fail to see why this is being pointed out?

> People from a higher caste tend to have higher IQ,

>> People from a higher caste tend to have better access to resources,

also a >Mankind Quarterly, a known fringe Far-right Racist publication.

for fellow readers see [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mankind_Quarterly

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by cubefox on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:25AM (#41914636)
> People from a higher caste tend to have better access to resources

Access to resources does not screen off the correlation between IQ and various measures of performance.

> also a >Mankind Quarterly, a known fringe Far-right Racist publication.

Far-left journalists and Wikipedia authors call it that because, according to them, diagnosing any difference in IQ between populations is automatically "far-right racist". But that's circular reasoning. It's like saying: "You can't trust those sources saying there are population differences in IQ because those sources are racist and they are racist because they are saying there are population differences in IQ."

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by gen_greyface on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @12:00PM (#41915643)
I will try not to engage further, but if you had any reading comprehension you'd look through the cited "far-left" sources on the wikipedia page.

i'll also assume that you wouldn't perform very well in the intelligence metric you're so fond of.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by cubefox on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @12:20PM (#41915874)
> I will try not to engage further, but if you had any reading comprehension you'd look through the cited "far-left" sources on the wikipedia page.

If you had any reading comprehension yourself, you'd notice they don't cite any evidence from non-left leaning sources. It's like reading an article about climate change on conservapedia.

> i'll also assume that you wouldn't perform very well in the intelligence metric you're so fond of

ad hominem

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by nnain on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:01AM (#41952671)
Unfortunately, India's poorest still don't get govt benefits due for them: A few gobble up all the caste-based reservation from the govt. I have seen many people who have made a career out of talking about caste all the time.

I know more than 3 people in the US, who talk about caste all the time (as in that's their job now) but grew up in very privileged families.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by zozbot234 on Saturday October 26, 2024 @01:05AM (#41952683)
Many Indians who talk about caste all the time, do it in ways that aren't immediately obvious. "What part of India are you from?" and "What's your surname?" are not just innocent questions.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by btree_001 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:45AM (#41914829)
> only caste that is supposed to be educated

Not True.

The book [1] documents evidences from the revenue records of the early British Administration in India on the state of education in the late 1700s through the 1800s up until the early 1900s. These records show that India had a well established grassroots education system at the village level, with access to children from all walks of the society including female students. The subjects taught included - Grammar, Lexicology, Poetry, Drama & Religious History, Rhetoric, Mathematics, Astronomy and Astrology, Logic, Law, Medical texts etc., As per the records and communication from the administrators, almost all villages had access to such schools.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17931651-the-beautiful-t...

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by kumarm on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:50AM (#41915532)
TamilNadu (His native state) had a literal revolt because 80% of high level government positions & political positions were owned by people of one caste even after british administration ended. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Brahminism#20th_century
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by hackernewds on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:14AM (#41915109)
Not to mention Ramanujan grew up in a colonial British era, and to attribute his genius and success (instead of the oppression and difficulties) him and his environment struggled with due to British colonialism is utterly rich!

Ramanujan succeeded in spite of it, not because of the favors of the British. Imagine how many Ramanujans were ignored due to 200 years of British colonial rule in India, wherein caste system developed and thrived*

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by gen_greyface on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @12:54PM (#41916235)
The cited book has no information on how the surveys themselves were conducted. The book is an overall romanticization of pre-colonial india, and frequently indulges in nostalgia.

The following books have a good overview of education&caste in india.

A. L. Basham, The Wonder That Was India

Gail Omvedt, Understanding Caste

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by cscurmudgeon on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @05:41PM (#41919027)
Do these books fix the day issue? How do they do it?
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by btree_001 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @11:42PM (#41921589)
> The cited book has no information on how the surveys themselves were conducted.

These are not surveys. These are actual full data from the erstwhile British Administration’s revenue records with the data collected by each Provincial head and the District administration revenue collectors and officials at that time. The modus operandi of the data collection is also detailed in the book.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by rramadass on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @03:05AM (#41911907)
Agreed. It is interesting to contrast G.H.Hardy's treatment of Ramanujan (nurturing) with Arthur Eddington's treatment of Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar (petty and back-stabbing) decades later. A discussion with lots of links can be found at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41284239
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by non_low_key on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @06:07AM (#41912807)
What do you mean by savage "native" here ? He is coming from a culture of long and rich intellectual history.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by uncharted9 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @06:11AM (#41912835)
I think he was referring to the way colonizers commonly referred to the subjects of their colonies pejoratively as "savage natives". This applies to Native Americans, Africans, South Asians, etc. Racism was the norm in the old days.
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by mandmandam on Wednesday October 23, 2024 @09:36AM (#41924942)
It's the norm now as well.

Only the target has changed. The land grabs and slurs and dehumanization are essentially the same, if sometimes with a modern twist.

Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by rq1 on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @07:14AM (#41913152)
What a kind heart!
Re:Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan by shombaboor on Tuesday October 22, 2024 @10:24AM (#41914625)
exposure and opportunity means so much in professional life. There's a lot of value out there but someone has to find and promote it.