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Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by jt2190 on Monday July 29, 2024 @09:37PM (#41105351)
Commenters here are really hung up on the "transparent TV in my living room" use case, but the article goes out of its way to point out that's not really what these displays are for, especially given the prices.

The use-cases presented are:

* Teleprompter-like screen with a camera behind it allowing presenter to look straight into the camera while still seeing the screen.

* Windows in public areas (subway cars, elevators) that display advertisements or animations.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by ksec on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:33PM (#41105612)
>* Windows in public areas (subway cars, elevators) that display advertisements or animations.

That is exactly what I said [1] when Apple reportedly killed MicroLED and people say MicroLED has no future. Quoting myself:

>Once I saw the Fully transparent MicroLED on Display in this year's CES , it is only a matter of time before it comes to market. I can immediately see luxury Retail shop paying the premium to get it.

Transparent OLED has slight colour shift and yellow tint to it. While Transparent MicroLED is really, fully transparent. The actual cost or price for these "Windows" compared to the additional space in premium Retail location are tiny. Once you have luxury started ordering and they reach a mass production scale cost will come down within a few years. ( ~2030 ).

While MicroLED may never end up in Smartphone or Tablet. I still think they have great potential elsewhere.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40778120

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by zombiwoof on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:48PM (#41105670)
Totally. This has Bladerunner and Minority Report vibes to me.

Be amazing in public

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by squigz on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @12:19AM (#41106010)
Did you just say that technology that gives you dystopic movie vibes would be amazing to have in public?
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by IncreasePosts on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @12:27AM (#41106043)
Well, yes, but what was wrong with those societies generally wasn't the kickass transparent screens.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @12:36AM (#41106076)
Minority Report had directed marketing based on eye recognition and people having to buy other people's eyes to keep out of the reach of the panopticon dystopia controlling everything - the kickass transparent screens there were definitely used for dystopic purposes.

Really it's a guns don't kill people - people kill people with guns situation; transparent screens for showing ads all the time at people don't create dystopias, but a capitalist dystopia will be using transparent screens for showing ads at people all the time if they can.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @03:37AM (#41106898)
A capitalist dystopia will use anything for showing ads to people all the time if they can. Actually we're already there and have been for years. The global ad market is all about recognizing and finetuning ads to specific people, using techniques a lot more advanced than iris or facial recognition.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by account42 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:30AM (#41107470)
The ad industry will use any surface they can, but surfaces where people are already looking are especially profitable and also where ads are most annoying. With transparent displays this can and will include windows everywhere.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by bryanrasmussen on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @06:08AM (#41107636)
>using techniques a lot more advanced than iris or facial recognition.

right, I remember having to reject all advertising cookies the last time I was at the bus stop.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by nottorp on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @02:49AM (#41106629)
Imagine yourself working 8+ hours per day standing, with your arms up touching a vertical transparent display...
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by jajko on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:06AM (#41107902)
I guess watched very different cyberpunk movies then, since I considered them as one of the worst things showed.

If your cereal box for 2$ has endless steeam of ads or each wall has active ad panel, and so does everything else, thats fuckex up future I'd gladly pay extra to avoid, and double that for my kids. Nothing kickass about that, on contrary.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:20AM (#41107962)
Per the parent comment, the screen isn’t problematic so much as the culture around them. The dystopic aspect is that they’re used for advertising rather than that they exist.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by ssl-3 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @06:00AM (#41107603)
"Amazing" doesn't have to mean something positive; it often does involve some aspect of delight in common parlance, but it needn't always be used with that intent.

Perhaps amazingly, I myself think that waking up in a scene from Minority Report would be absolutely terrific.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrific

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by defrost on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:59PM (#41105708)
Cue Misapplied Sciences https://www.misappliedsciences.com/

Next gen public displays will follow you as you walk across the square with messaging targeted to you .. as the same is done in parallel to hundred others.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by knotimpressed on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @01:33AM (#41106288)
Wow, given what their website looks like and their claims I’m shocked that they actually had a functional prototype 4 years ago.[0]

On the one hand I’m bummed that I haven’t seen it in person, and on the other I’m so very glad it isn’t a popular technology (yet).

I’m really curious to see if anyone can find any details on how their technology works; I’m struggling to think of any better solutions than having tens of thousands of oled screens and lenses to map each pixel on the smaller screen to a pixel and an angle on the larger screen as a whole.

0: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ptXTSuMkuvA

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by Modified3019 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:00AM (#41107304)
A fucking gas pump loudly playing ads nonstop on it’s screen was enough to make me feel like not enough of the world was on fire, and I hardly ever experience rage.

Ads following people around is straight up harassment and will result in lawsuits, freakouts and righteous violence.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by defrost on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:11AM (#41107354)
I'm with you and loathe advertising.

What we have to deal with is creeping normalisation.

The majority of the human population using the internet seem to have accepted being grouped into buckets by cookies and targeted with very specific adverts .. from there it's a short hop to public space { facial | phone | device } recognition and targeted adverts.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by gosub100 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @06:22AM (#41107703)
Try pressing the buttons on screen, there usually is a mute
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by bdunks on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @06:31AM (#41107738)
Second button down on the right side of screen (almost always).

I read once that it’s an accessibility requirement that the screens can be muted.

I haven’t encountered a screen that I couldn’t mute in the last 10+ years.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:30AM (#41108022)
FWIW, third down on the left is what works at a local chain.

(I was gonna say something about “brute-forcing” it but I know how that might be misinterpreted. Just try all the buttons, if necessary.)

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by ssl-3 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @12:27PM (#41110957)
The only constant is this: It varies.

I start with the buttons on the right, because I am right handed and that's easier for me. I start with the top button and work to the bottom.

If silence has not yet been achieved, then I do the same with the buttons on the left.

If silence has still not yet been achieved, then I make a mental note to never give that location any money ever again. (It's a short list, and the irritation makes it very easy to remember each location whether I want to or not.)

(I don't worry about how "brute forcing" might be interpreted. I am doing nothing wrong.)

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by TimTheTinker on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:43AM (#41109118)
At least in the US, you can usually press one of the buttons next to the screen (and usually it's one of the corner buttons) to mute the TV while pumping gas.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by account42 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:33AM (#41107486)
Weirdly appropriate company name. Imagine if the minds behind this were used for making people's lives better instead blasting them with more effective ads.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by fnord77 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @12:15AM (#41105997)
[delayed]
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by hulitu on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @01:31AM (#41106282)
It is to fight terrorism. Think about the children. /s
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @03:38AM (#41106903)
But we're already there. Depending on where you are of course, but most main streets already do. Times Square has been (in)famous for it for decades.

I don't understand why people in this thread are panicking about living in an ad ridden dystopia when they already do.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by boesboes on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @04:53AM (#41107270)
Doesn't have to get even worse than it already is. I don't live on times square and prefer to keep it that way. I will not roll over and take it just because it's not that much worse.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by rightbyte on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:35AM (#41109044)
I am in a playground right now with zero ads in sight. There is still plenty of room for explotation.

Times Square is a thing. At one point, people visited amusement parks to look at the light bulbs. In some way the first movers might be cute.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by donw on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:46PM (#41105666)
Given the number of people here that have absolutely seen Blade Runner, it’s surprising that more aren’t making this connection.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by userbinator on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:03PM (#41105475)
Windows in public areas (subway cars, elevators) that display advertisements or animations.

As if we needed any more of that... do not want.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by ThatMedicIsASpy on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:21AM (#41107418)
There should be a very high tax on light pollution coming from ads across the globe. Everything other than your stores logo? Pay extra.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by lucianbr on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @08:51AM (#41108615)
Maybe forbidding is a better idea. They may be able to pay, and in the end, it doesn't make me feel any better that the millionth annoying ad at least cost a lot to show. Corporations have deep pockets.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by TimTheTinker on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:46AM (#41109152)
Ironically, maybe one of the primary features of future always-on AR glasses will be ad blocking.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by karaterobot on Monday July 29, 2024 @11:21PM (#41105791)
Given the price, I don't know if replacing subway car windows and elevators with $4500 screens would pencil out. But you know, that's probably just me wishing there can be one single two dimensional surface without an advertisement on it.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by dijkstra_j on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @04:48AM (#41107242)
It's gonna become cheaper over time, just how there are already screens showing ads everywhere, which you'd never expect when the television first got popular.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by xattt on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:54PM (#41105690)
> Teleprompter-like screen with a camera behind it allowing presenter to look straight into the camera while still seeing the screen

This was Apple’s goal for under and between screen cameras two decades ago [1]. The killer app is video conferencing.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/26/apples_patent_for...

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by callalex on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @02:02AM (#41106417)
Instead they solved it much more elegantly by just live-processing the video to re-aim your pupils. They’ve been doing it for years and most people don’t even know it which is how you know they did a great job. I’ve never noticed it looking creepy or artifact-y.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by _flux on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:51AM (#41108166)
I think this is great, but doesn't it hinder the ability to naturally not look in the eyes? Or were they just flaws seen in the first demos? I haven't used this kind of system.

In any case, a camera behind the screen doesn't completely solve the problem anyway, because the screen can have multiple people. For this application you need either a camera per person, or the pupil re-aiming postprocessing, to give the illusion of presence.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by cubefox on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @04:07AM (#41107047)
Samsung already sells phones where the selfie camera is under the screen. Since the screens are not (and cannot be) fully transparent, the image quality suffers.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by golergka on Monday July 29, 2024 @09:45PM (#41105388)
Also, making an excavator look like fighter jet cockpit: https://news.lgdisplay.com/en/2022/01/rising-potential-of-tr...
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by doe_eyes on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:28PM (#41105586)
A touchscreen-operated excavator. They really underscore that...
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by userbinator on Monday July 29, 2024 @11:11PM (#41105743)
Zero tactile feedback, expensive and difficult-to-repair controls on a machine operated in a dirty environment where people usually wear gloves? I wonder how many of the people who designed that have actually used an excavator or talked to someone who does, or even just visited a construction site to experience the environment.

There's plenty of discussions on how touchscreens in cars are awful, but those who design these abominations are so out of touch with reality that they don't seem to realise that. I suspect the same applies here.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by ChoGGi on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @08:49AM (#41108595)
Touchscreen for settings. I see "joystick fine control", and other such. Being able to setup for speed or accuracy is a good thing for me at least (custom profiles at the top of the screen).

And I'm usually not wearing gloves inside a skid steer/mini ex, unless the heater isn't working.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by npunt on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @12:33AM (#41106065)
I love the tech but these things are going to be obnoxious as hell. I hope it supercharges the movement to ban advertisements from public places, which has already been done successfully in Sao Paulo and several other major cities [1]. The 99% Invisible episode on it is worth a listen [2].

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/aug/11/can-cities-ki...

[2]: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/clean-city-law-secret...

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @03:35AM (#41106890)
Probably, but we'll probably get used to it just like graphics on windows or displays behind windows / store front displays. Sci-fi and cyberpunk visualisations have already prepared us.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by jajko on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:02AM (#41107881)
First class - no ads. Second class, cheaper & ads. If it goes this way its actually great in 1 aspect - you can't escape the simple fact that ads are a garbage, and high quality of... life or your time is without them.

Seems obvious but I've met many who dont see it as sort of brain cancer and consider them harmless.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by rbanffy on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:22AM (#41107974)
Many years ago São Paulo heavily regulated outdoor ads [1]. It was a huge leap in quality of life for the citizens - the removal of all that visual noise and the sudden reappearance of the underlying architecture unveiled a beauty most inhabitants didn't remember existed.

It got to the point that, when I visited New York, I got angry at the full-on sensorial assault. My mood was always nasty there.

If this is done responsibly, and used to extend architecture in ways it wouldn't be feasible before, I don't have many reasons to be concerned. OTOH, in places where visual pollution is unregulated, oh boy, it'll be bad.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cidade_Limpa

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by themaninthedark on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:28AM (#41108000)
>when I visited New York, I got angry at the full-on sensorial assault. My mood was always nasty there.

No, that is just the New York state of mind.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by xethos on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @08:54AM (#41108640)
Yes, and the advertising everywhere is one reason for that
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by rbanffy on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @08:54AM (#41108644)
I can really understand that.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by michaelbuckbee on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:32AM (#41109028)
My last visit to NYC there was a pronounced uptick in wall sized LED screens being used for everything from art pieces (at the new Laguardia) to info screens to just shops with massive screens in their storefront in lieu of showing physical goods.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by raincole on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @03:53AM (#41106981)
> Windows in public areas (subway cars, elevators) that display advertisements...

Thanks, I hate it. I like the window looking like window.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by radley on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @04:17AM (#41107108)
> Teleprompter-like screen with a camera behind it allowing presenter to look straight into the camera while still seeing the screen.

Maybe they can upgrade this to a dynamic e-ink backdrop that's transparent where the camera is, along with an x,y motorized camera that can follow the position of the video window on the screen.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by PatronBernard on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:15AM (#41107373)
> Windows in public areas (subway cars, elevators) that display advertisements or animations.

I would say this is even more distressing, they are literally trying to invade every damn steradian of your field of view. Soon you won't be able to look out of a train window without ads.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by Taek on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:17AM (#41107391)
This can be solved with local legislation, like in Navato
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by account42 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:37AM (#41107498)
Dunno, feels like not being constantly manipulated should be a more fundamental right and not just a local issue. If a person does it it's harassment. If a company does it via technology it's business as usual.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by netcan on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @05:27AM (#41107454)
Good comment.

As a side note... It's interesting how "more advertising opportunity" is a well that never runs dry.

You would think this tops out at some point. That advertiser's won't just spend more and more forever. Turns out, they will.

Imo, this is related in a complex way to etherealization of many modern sectors. Outsourcing, specialization, the proverbial 4-hr workweek... and it's more pertinent SME instantiation.

If your business model is subscription condiments, you probably have the condiments made with your label and perhaps outsource the shipping.

The value add of the consumer facing firm is all marketing. There are no investments or long term improvements to production. You have blunt tools to affect product. It's unsurprising that marketing specialists are big consumers of advertising services.

Meanwhile, modern pay-per-performance advertising represents the down-scalable starting point for nascent businesses. That shapes these firms.

Anyway... There are so many sectors where paying >20% of gross on advertising is normal. It's not obvious what the upper threshold is... especially with digital products.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by m-i-l on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @06:48AM (#41107805)
There's another use case towards the end: "Transparent displays could have a place on the desktop—not so you can see through them, but so that a camera can sit behind the display, capturing your image while you’re looking directly at the screen. This would help you maintain eye contact during a Zoom call."

Personally I think that would be a great idea. But from my (non expert) perspective, for eye contact in video calls, I'd have thought a single camera behind a transparent 30" monitor would be little better than a single camera ontop of a 30" monitor, given that you may have multiple faces on screen and have those faces in different places on screen. Maybe a matrix of cameras behind a transparent screen, with gaze detection and eye tracking to determine which to activate at any time?

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by mnw21cam on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:14AM (#41108833)
I remember maybe 10 years ago seeing a news article about Microsoft having developed a system that uses a camera at both the top and the bottom of a screen, which can then build a 3D model of your face and reconstruct a video in real time of what your face would look like from a virtual camera in the middle of the screen.

I remember thinking it was a massive waste of computing power. And they wanted to put it on a phone.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by AshamedCaptain on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:23AM (#41108922)
Wasnt Apple doing this already with a single camera and some minimal machine learning to modify the gaze?
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by mnw21cam on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:30AM (#41109010)
Kind of, but I think they were planning to modify more than just the eyes.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by bunabhucan on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:45AM (#41109132)
>I remember thinking it was a massive waste of computing power. And they wanted to put it on a phone

Wait until you hear about filters. Making people look better on their phone camera must employ buildings full of engineers.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by mnw21cam on Thursday August 01, 2024 @11:40AM (#41130349)
Oh darn, I forgot about filters. What an absolute waste of battery energy.
Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by mistersquid on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:48AM (#41109180)
> a camera can sit behind the display, capturing your image while you’re looking directly at the screen. This would help you maintain eye contact during a Zoom call.

A camera so situated would also capture the contents of the display, not just the display user’s face. Others on the call would see the transparent display user’s face occluded by the display’s output.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by rbanffy on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @07:15AM (#41107943)
> Windows in public areas (subway cars, elevators) that display advertisements or animations.

I feel it's something that can be explored better in architecture settings - with this, windows can be used for lighting and decoration. It opens up a lot of interesting possibilities in both commercial and residential settings.

Re:LG and Samsung Are Making TV Screens Disappear by jader201 on Tuesday July 30, 2024 @09:22AM (#41108915)
To be fair, the “C” in CES stands for “consumer”, so it’s understandable why people would assume these were meant for consumers to use in homes.

Many people follow CES as it often shows off products that will be available (intended?) for consumer purchase.

It’s confusing if these are being shown at CES, but are actually meant to be used for commercial purposes.