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Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by crispyambulance on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:24AM (#39968588)
It's nice to build chip fabs in the USA, but is it _really_ necessary to "gift" some of the most capable and productive companies on the planet billions of dollars (not even counting the tax freebies)?

The whole CHIPS act thing seems backwards and short-sighted.

As the US education system is backsliding into literally worse-than-third-world outcomes, can we expect that companies like TSMC will even be able to find enough US workers to staff these facilities at a scale which will be large enough to move the economic needle?

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by joshuacc on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:32AM (#39968632)
How else do you propose to get a company to build a factory at your preferred location rather than theirs? Paying companies is the usual way to get them to do things.

The economic effects are important but secondary to the national security effects of having TSMC chip manufacturing on US soil.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by stewx on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:21AM (#39968944)
Another approach would be to apply tariffs to chips coming from adversary countries, until it becomes more economical to produce them in North America.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by jasode on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:43AM (#39969119)
>Another approach would be to apply tariffs to chips coming from adversary countries,

But Taiwan isn't an adversary of the USA so why would tariffs be "another approach"?

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by melling on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:37AM (#39969068)
Taiwan isn’t an adversary.

That’s the problem we are trying to solve: Too many important chips are made there.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by ytch on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:11AM (#39969376)
The Information Technology Agreement of WTO[1] eliminates taxes and tariffs for IT products, I'm not sure if chips belongs to this agreements?

[1] https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dtt_e/dtt-ita_e.htm

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by likeabbas on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:25AM (#39968971)
That would increase costs for US consumers drastically in the interim 20 years it takes to get those fabs online
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by poidos on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:47AM (#39968726)
I wish it could be an investment instead of just grants and loans. Could be a way to jumpstart a national sovereign wealth fund.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by JumpCrisscross on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:54AM (#39968774)
> wish it could be an investment instead of just grants and loans

It’s much more cleanly done with loans.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by xyzzy4747 on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:54AM (#39968773)
I disagree. You don't want the government to own things because they would be slow and ineffective at corporate governance. It's better to simply subsidize and let the business owners make the important decisions.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by afavour on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:58AM (#39968803)
Feels like a self fulfilling prophecy. There’s no reason government can’t be effective at decision making if things are set up the right way (their involvement could be distant). There’s also no reason to assume a giant company (like, say, Intel) is going to be particularly fast at it.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by xyzzy4747 on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:59AM (#39968806)
The people in government aren't incentivized to be effective largely because they have no personal financial reason to be. There's no stock options or things like that, no good bonus programs, etc.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by afavour on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:05AM (#39968841)
What about a competitive salary they lose (i.e. get fired) if they underperform? We’re used to underpaying and overprotecting government employees but if you were setting up a new publicly owned company there’s no reason you’d have to do it that way.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by smallnamespace on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:24AM (#39968959)
> there’s no reason

The reason as always is politics.

For example, the Federal civil service ("general service") pay scale tops out around $160k. This really doesn't make sense and costs the government multiples of market wages for hiring for roles where market pay is higher than this. One route is to hire that person via a contracting firm with a huge (double or triple) markup.

And of course the reason we don't just revamp the pay scales and pay market wages is because it's political suicide to pay people half a million or more at market rates.

The American people, on average, don't like the level of wage inequality in society. For any particular issue where you shove it in their faces (like proposing to pay the project lead "competitive salary"), you will get shouted down.

That's also why we get strange arrangements like Congress members making around $170k a year with legal insider trading. The insider trading money they make looks like "free" and isn't easily quantified.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by ajmurmann on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:19AM (#39969443)
Great connection you make on the insider trading! That never occurred to me despite recently being fed up with local mayoral candidates; looking at mayor comp and immediately noping out because a substantial paycut for the pleasure of dealing with the biggest BS imaginable seems rather unattractive.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by glimshe on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:37AM (#39969070)
It's already difficult to fire people in large businesses, but firing people from government is in a whole different level. Especially for performance unless we're talking about extreme underperformance or job abandonment.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by afavour on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:53AM (#39969203)
What I’m saying is that a publicly owned company has a lot of flexibility in this regard. Employees are not government employees. It’s like a regular private company except the government is the sole shareholder.

My broader point here about self fulfilling prophecy is reflected in your comment: it has been this way, therefore must always be this way. That’s not true.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by hiddencost on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:20AM (#39968934)
Turns out that what happens in practice is corporations get chopped up for parts, and government usually does better.

Medicare for example is much more efficient than private health insurance.

The motivation for government employees is "because they care about doing the right thing". You should try it some time.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by nullfield on Monday April 08, 2024 @02:20PM (#39972386)
From working in government, “no, they don’t care about doing it the right way.” The people who get hired are, largely, the ones who will work for the lower salary paid, and plenty lack enough experience and/or capability to even do what they need to. At least in IT.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by magicalhippo on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:05AM (#39969319)
Here in Norway the government fully owns several "private" companies[1], like Statkraft[2]. They can have bonus programs and similar. Some are too good[3][4], others[5] not quite as wild.

[1]: https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/business-and-industry/s...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statkraft

[3]: https://www.nrk.no/norge/statkraft-oker-inntekter-og-bonuser...

[4]: https://www.dn.no/energi/narings-og-fiskeridepartementet/lo-...

[5]: https://www.mesta.no/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Mesta_Vedleg... (page 2)

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by throw0101d on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:22AM (#39969466)
> The people in government aren't incentivized to be effective largely because they have no personal financial reason to be. There's no stock options or things like that, no good bonus programs, etc.

I would hazard to guess that most employed people do not have stock options or get bonuses (only salary), but are still "effective" because they consider that doing a job well is its own reward: i.e., they have intrinsic motivation (rather than extrinsic).

I have worked in private sector, and in government (including academia/research), and most folks want to do a job well because they like the satisfaction of being able to know they did the job well.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by cjblomqvist on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:27AM (#39970087)
I'd say it's not that clear cut. Do we have any facts (research) here or are these just beliefs? I can point to several but companies doing very well owned by governments, as well as many doing very badly.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by diggan on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:10AM (#39968875)
Could be slow and ineffective. It's as likely a company would run it into the ground because of short-sightedness. There are so many examples of government services becoming private company enterprises and in short order everything got worse. But I guess there are equally many examples of the other way around as well.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by api on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:15AM (#39968910)
They would be no worse and probably better than private equity or public markets.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by vjk800 on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:44AM (#39969128)
The biggest owner of TSMC is National Development Fund, which is a fund owned by Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure if a US owned fund would be slower and more ineffective in corporate governance than a Saudi owned one.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by indocomsoft on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @07:30AM (#39978326)
I think it's actually National Development Fund of the Executive Yuan, which is a Taiwanese fund.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by randomcarbloke on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:45AM (#39969134)
it is an investment
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by everdrive on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:34AM (#39969040)
I agree with you, and am excited for TSMC fabs in the US. At the same time, I also wonder if this would lead to _less_ defense of Taiwan if we neuter its strategic importance by building those crucial fabs somewhere else. Mind you, this is not an argument against building them. It just makes me wonder what the other effects will be.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by WitCanStain on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:56AM (#39969229)
US will still have plenty of reason to defend Taiwan, if only because it is a crucial part of America's containment strategy - China would have a much easier time operating in the Pacific if it controls Taiwan, and the US won't allow that. Further, if Taiwan falls a lot of countries will lose faith in America's ability to protect them from China which would thrust the entirety of South-East Asia into China's hands, also something the US can't afford. Though, with recent claims that China can build 1000 cruise missiles a day[0] it might not matter whether US defends them or not.

[0] https://asiatimes.com/2024/03/america-has-no-ukraine-plan-b-...

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by deskamess on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:58AM (#39969246)
They have said they will not build the best and latest here in the US. Many of the fabless companies here in the US want access to that latest stuff and the US is vested in keeping that channel open for market/defense/security reasons.

The Chip Wars book is an excellent read and tells you us the supply chain is globally integrated. If we were to draw a country graph of technology dependence to create semiconductor technology T (tools, chips, etc) - well, there is no DAG. The defense department is not so happy to see all this free market sharing of essential technology going on as it benefits non-friendly nation(s).

The book also illustrated how behind Russia was/is with weapons technology and semiconductors in general (compared to the US).

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by ajmurmann on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:59AM (#39969260)
Yes, Vivek famously already said during his campaign that he'd tell the CCP that we need a few years to catch up on chips and then they can have Taiwan. I'm sure other share this (IMO inhuman, deprived of any morality and allegiance to our liberal western alliance and any foresight) sentiment
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by baxtr on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:52AM (#39969186)
At the end of the day it’s a trade-off decision. It’s probably cheaper to build highly subsidized factories in the States than to go to war over Taiwan.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by YetAnotherNick on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:03AM (#39969300)
Being 2-3 years ahead in chip making(with other closing the gap over time) is not a defence against a potentially WW3 level event. Anyone who thinks millions of life is less important than few percentage increase in performance is delusional. I don't know how this discussion surfaces in HN so many times.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by jellicle on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:39AM (#39969087)
The USA - the most powerful and richest country in the world - could ... just ... build it.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by ecshafer on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:42AM (#39969116)
The US really doesn't do things directly like that, at least not in the last 50 years. Maybe you could point to this and say its wrong, but going through a contractor or company is the way the government typically operates.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by PierceJoy on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:05AM (#39969320)
Isn’t that effectively what they’re doing? They’re using their riches to pay the people with the necessary institutional knowledge to build it in the USA.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by analognoise on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:11AM (#39969364)
I like this idea and think we should get back into federally building things too.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by harry8 on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:27AM (#39968605)
>can we expect that companies like TSMC will even be able to find enough US workers to staff these facilities at a scale which will be large enough to move the economic needle?

Immigration.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by xnx on Thursday April 11, 2024 @01:15PM (#40004507)
Is part of the statecraft at play here to brain drain all the valuable engineers from Taiwan and China?
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by dwheeler on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:09AM (#39968870)
Yes, it is necessary if the world wants to have high-end chips manufactured more than a few miles from China. China's government has been spending billions and billions on an utterly massive military build-up. The US goal is to be able to continue to have chips, which are necessary to power almost everything else. I think what's going on is a geopolitical struggle. The US views this as a national security issue.

A good question is whether or not this will work. A big building is not the same as a working best-in-class fab.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by hiddencost on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:13AM (#39968892)
It's about war.

The US wants on shore chips facilities with trained US staff so that if we end up in a shooting war with China we won't lose our supply of chips.

That's the whole thing.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by Clubber on Monday April 08, 2024 @11:26AM (#39970692)
>It's about war.

I mean yes, ultimately, but it's also about supply chain disruption that we just experienced with COVID. The US economy (and subsequently the Western economy) would probably get hit pretty hard with a chip cutoff and 5 years to onshore it. The economy is also about war; without a strong economy, we can't stockpile all our murder toys. It's also about leverage with China. With China on an aggressive footing and Taiwan so vulnerable, they have a leverage point we're now addressing.

We got this way because we thought if we brought China into the modern economy they would democratize. I think we came to the conclusion that it's not working out that way so we're adjusting and divesting from China. COVID was a wake up call in regard to having a single country be the world's production of goods. It ups the bet when that single country is becoming more of an adversary than a competitive partner.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by melling on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:49AM (#39968741)
I think you’re completely missing the point. This has nothing to do with moving the economic needle.

Having 90% of the most important semiconductors in the world made on an island 90 miles from China, which China wants to take back, is a bit of a problem.

What happens in a protracted skirmish that lasts a year, for example, where we can’t get any of those semiconductors.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by etiam on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:47AM (#39969153)
> which China wants to take back

That's Beijing rhetoric.

They can't take it back because it's never been theirs. It would be more accurate to say they want to conquer the last remaining territory from the legitimate government of China and wipe out the main alternative to their hegemony.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by xyzzy4747 on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:50AM (#39968750)
Have you ever played an economics game such as Victoria 3?

IMO the government should do a lot more subsidizing of important businesses. It would grow the economy faster in useful ways.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by amelius on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:49AM (#39968743)
By the way, doesn't competition law say anything about these gifts?
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by Cthulhu_ on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:30AM (#39969539)
The OECD has a good writeup about this very subject: https://one.oecd.org/document/DAF/COMP/GF(2022)6/en/pdf

> This is however not the case and subsidies are, with a few exceptions, mostly assessed or controlled using multilateral rules and free trade agreements.

I haven't read the full thing because I'm no economist, but it seems to be above board. For comparison, Intel is getting $8.5 billion from the CHIPS Act (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/us-chi... I can't find other US based chip companies like NVidia or AMD getting any from that pot of money though, which is weird. Although NVidia doesn't need it, given how their stock price and valuation rocketed up.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by aurareturn on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:26AM (#39968601)
The Biden administration sees it as 2 birds with 1 stone.

Intel and TSMC are investing in swing states. It matters to Biden when it comes to the election.

The second is that the US genuinely wants chip fabs in US in case war breaks out.

It's most definitely inefficient use of dollars for mega corporations.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by senectus1 on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:37AM (#39969594)
Without a doubt the biggest reason here is to ensure the tech is capable on their homeland. having most of modern tech being build in China/Taiwan and Japan is a HUGE security risk for US (and other "wesetrn countries")
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by tomohawk on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:44AM (#39968696)
The act is about laundering money to politically connected entities. If any chips actually get made, that's a side effect.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by slaw on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:15AM (#39969403)
These chips could be used in national chips reserve. The same way like national cheese reserve.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_cheese

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by Salgat on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:34AM (#39969049)
Chip demand is cyclical, and idle capacity is extremely costly, so chip fabs are built around the bottom of the demand curve to always run at full capacity. If you want to avoid another chip shortage, especially for national security reasons, financial incentives are the only way to do it.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by Jedd on Monday April 08, 2024 @08:51AM (#39969176)
> ... but is it _really_ necessary to "gift" some of the most capable and productive companies ...

As I understand it, the gift is, for the most part, what we'd call 'funny money' - no one's really handing over the proverbial briefcase of USD$11B in return for them building out a fab plant on US soil.

While the figures are referred to as loans, I suspect in practice they manifest quite differently.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by northhanover on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:05AM (#39969836)
Well then maybe I can pay my taxes this year with the “funny money” you are talking about.

Forgone taxes are REAL money.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by pixl97 on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:18AM (#39969978)
Or maybe you can pay 4-10x or even more the price for chips when something in the world destabilizes (remember that during covid?), was that not real money?

Libertarian types love to make models of the world that are so simplified they are totally incorrect. But hey, you'll be able to save on taxes in the good times, and starve in the streets during the bad.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by Jedd on Tuesday April 09, 2024 @02:20AM (#39976618)
I see your point, but if the USA didn't encourage the company to set up fab shops domestically, then it wouldn't be receiving those taxes either - but in that scenario it also wouldn't be receiving the indirect benefits of having that company operating locally.

Your personal taxes are a different matter - the nation state is not trying to court you into operating within its borders with some tempting on-paper discounts.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by natnat on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:05AM (#39969317)
In what world is the US education worse-than-third-world? The US has universal literacy, phenomenal higher education institutions, and primary and secondary schools that are comparable to peer countries on average.

We spend lots of money on schools in the US and generally get pretty good outcomes. Our math scores leave something to be desired, but average reading scores are better than peer countries. There are plenty of exceptions, especially in poor neighborhoods, and chronic absenteeism is a real problem, but it's worth keeping sight of the fact that the vast majority of American schools are quite good.

Some examples:

* PISA scores: https://www.oecd.org/pisa/OECD_2022_PISA_Results_Comparing%2...

* PIRLS/TIMMS scores: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=1

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by fundad on Monday April 08, 2024 @12:12PM (#39971167)
National averages are nothing like the areas of the US where a fab would go.

They need immigration to restore the values around education and work ethic. I hope we stay at it long enough to make these places great again.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by CharlieDigital on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:18AM (#39969431)
Per your first link, the US is below the OECD average with a -13 delta from 2018
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by natnat on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:02AM (#39969810)
The PISA scores are below average in 2022 but not significantly so. Most countries have had a pretty bad decline in test scores due to covid, but that's (hopefully) a one-time problem and future cohorts will do better.

I'm not saying that's a good thing. We're a very rich country and we should do better.

But the US also has a lot of systematic problems that peer countries don't, like child poverty, that are likely a bigger cause of subpar test scores than bad schools.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by CharlieDigital on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:37AM (#39970189)
There's a difference between "below average and rising" versus "below average and falling". The US, over this period, happens to be the latter: below average and falling.

Merely focusing on "below average" without acknowledging the trend -- declining -- seems to be disingenuous.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by calderarrow on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:23AM (#39969476)
That section is just for mathematics, which the commenter specifically called out. The reading and science are above average
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by newshackr on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:30AM (#39969540)
Above average seems like a low bar if the US wants to stay the top economy.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by natnat on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:52AM (#39969725)
I'm not trying to say that the US educational performance is great, just that it's not terrible. I think there's a lot of room for improvement, but there's a narrative that US schools are failing horribly and that just isn't true.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by CharlieDigital on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:02AM (#39969811)
Wouldn't you agree that "failing" is relative? Given just how much money the US has, wouldn't you agree that we should expect better outcomes? Wouldn't it be a failure that despite our massive wealth, we are below OECD average in any subject?
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by shepherdjerred on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:56AM (#39970423)
That is a _huge_ shift of the goalpost from "US is worse than third world countries"
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by dahfizz on Monday April 08, 2024 @11:12AM (#39970573)
Wildly shifting goal posts from “worse than third world” to “above average isn’t good enough”
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by CharlieDigital on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:37AM (#39969584)
Particularly so given how "wealthy" the US is.
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by maxerickson on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:27AM (#39969510)
For math. Above average in reading and science.

There's also the matter of picking a definition for third world.

Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by Thorrez on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:49AM (#39969696)
Does OECD include third world?
Re:TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs by thomastjeffery on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:14AM (#39969919)
Why are you pitting this against education funding?

The US spends more on defense than both put together. A lot more.