So I wonder if that 5s delay has always been there.
I got the you can't use an adblocker message, but was able to close and/or reload the page to watch videos without ads. After a week or so it stopped popping up.
US, Firefox, uBlockOrgin.
Go into ublock origin addon > click filter lists > purge all caches then update now
all done
Added bonus, I'm less tempted to venture into the comments section...
Depending on if you've set up uBlock to auto-update and when you've watched youtube relative to when the block filters got updated you might just not have been hit with the latest detectors while they were active. Personally I know I got the "accept ads or leave" modal with firefox + uBlock, locking me out completely on one of my devices.
Uh, yes? We were all inexperienced at some point. Just the linked file is like 300k lines of unminified code, I doubt it's all written by PHDs with 20 years of experience
Yes
This reply is for everyone who has ever worked on the codebase...
Why is there more than one user-agent? Does somebody still expect to receive different content based on the user-agent, and furthermore expect that the difference will be beneficial to them?
What was Microsoft trying to achieve by sending a non-Chrome user-agent?
1. They are useful for working around bugs. You can match the user agent to work around the bugs on known-buggy browser versions. Ideally this would be a handful of specific matches (like Firefox versions 12-14). You can't do feature detection for many bugs because they may only trigger in very specific situations. Ideally this blacklist would only be confirmed entries and manually tested if the new versions have the same problem. (Unfortunately these often end up open-ended because testing each new release for a bug that isn't on the priority list is tedious.)
2. Diagnosing problems. Often times you see that some specific group of user-agents is hammering some API or fails to load a page. It is much easier to track down if this user agent is a precise identifier of the client for which your site doesn't work correctly.
3. Understanding users. For example if you see that a browser you have never heard of is a significant amount of traffic you may want to add it to your testing routine.
But yes, the abuse of if (/Chrome/.test(navigator.userAgent)) { mainCode() } else { untestedFallback() } is a major issue.
It would never do feature detection, would give lower quality h264 video, etc. Back then, there was really nice third-party application myTube which had made this less of an issue but it was eventually killed through API changes.
There is no reason for charity with such a large power difference. For Firefox, "bugs" like this can really end up being a one-shot game.
It's like people walking by and casually reaching for your phone. It's always meant as a joke, unless you don't pull it away fast enough. Then suddenly it wasn't a joke - and your phone is gone.
I'm mad that such a big company with suposelly decent engineers, are making me wait 5s with literally a sleep, how is even possible to do such thing in such a rudimentary way? I would be like damn that was smart, this feels like, seriously this is the level?
* Marketing/Sales asks engineers to add a feature flag to sleep N milliseconds for their research: "how slowing down impacts your revenue"
* engineer adds a flag, with different control parameters
* Some genius in Product figures this out and updates the experiment to slow down for competitors
Engineers tend to create paper trails on what they work on, code reviews and bug logs etc are everywhere, so I doubt there is any of those where they say "Make things shit for Firefox to hurt our competitors", that would net them an easy loss in court. But not testing in browsers with small userbases will hold in court.
Google have been disgustingly anticompetitive for a very, very long time at this point.
I have firsthand knowledge that Cloud, for instance, did not test regularly directly on Firefox. Team couldn't justify the cost of setting up and maintaining a FF test suite to satisfy 1 in 50 users, so they didn't (and nobody up-chain pushed back on that). Testing was done regularly on Chrome, Safari, and Edge, as per the usercounts and "top three browser" guidance (at the time, we didn't even test regularly on mobile, since there was a separate mobile client).
But the analytics team? I'm sure they test directly on Firefox. They're just testing an entirely different piece of the elephant and their end-to-ends won't include how, for example, changes they make interoperate with Firefox in the context of Cloud. Or YouTube. Or etc. Not unless they have a specific reason to be concerned enough to.
Google's like any other megacorp in the sense that costs of cross-team coordination are combinatoric.
Another example that springs to mind is Uber, who used a tool called "Greyball" to avoid contact between drivers and authorities: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-uber-greyball-idUKKBN16B0...
My initial reaction was astonishment that the engineers would happily implement this. And maybe that is what happened. But the alternative possibility is that product and senior management assigned different parts of the feature to different teams e.g. one team develops a pattern recognition system to detect users' professions, another team develops a spoofing system for use in demos, etc...
“Research”
It's always, always mattered. If anything, people care less today, with the entire ridiculous 100 loads per page.
Whomever didn't care was weird.
In order for someone to slow down the by browser they need someone to have coded the following:
- UA Detection
- Branching for when the flag is on or off
- a timeout that only runs when these two things are true
That takes an engineer to do the work. Marketing and product managers are not writing this code certainly.
If they’re abusing a differ t flag, then the real question I have is what the flags purpose is and why is it screening Firefox.
Either way there is an intention of UA checking and throttling based on the UA and that takes an engineer to do it
Good engineering isn't about being obtuse and convoluted, it's about making stuff that works.
I'm not even a JS programmer but I know about timers, idle wait in UI programming is a common pattern. It's the attitude of mediocre engineers not bothering to lookup or learn new things.
If every OS/browser/stock market dev did what they want "because it works" we don't have a working system. We'll have systemic lags making the system sluggish and eventually unusable as more engineers follow the same mantra.
[1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/requ...
"It works" is The high engineering bar and it's the hard one to hit.
Oftentimes it's replaced these days with imagined complexity, ideological conformity or some arbitrarily defined set of virtues and then you get a really complicated thing that maybe works some of the time and breaks in really hard to understand ways.
Transcompiled frameworks inside of microservices talking to DBMS adapters over virtual networks to do a "select *" from a table and then pipe things in the reverse direction to talk to a variety of services and providers with their own APIs and separate dependencies sitting in different microservices as it just shepherds a JSON string through a dozen wrapper functions on 5 docker containers to just send it back to the browser is The way things are done these days. This is the crap that passes for "proper" engineering. Like the programming version of the pre-revolutionary French Court.
A simple solution, fit for purpose, that works as intended, easy to understand, remove, debug and modify with a no-bus factor, that's the actual high end solution, not the spaghetti stacked as lasagna that is software haute couture these days.
Sometimes, in practice, the dumb solution can also be the smart one. True mastery is in what you choose Not to do.
In this particular case I disagree with using `sleep`; using the idle timer it's not as roundabout as you put it: _Transcompiled frameworks inside of microservices talking to DBMS adapters over virtual networks_. It's a straight-forward callback, some lower-level timekeeper signals you and you do your thing: it's nowhere close to the convoluted jumping through hoops you explain.
Mastery comes with balance: putting in the optimal effort, not more, not less either. Of course, depends on what one's trying to master: job or programming. Former means do the minimum and get maximum benefits from your job/boss, latter means enjoy learning/programming and arrive at the most optimal solution (for no reason, just because you're passionate).
An engineer doing "good engineering" on a feature typically depends not only on them being a "good engineer" but also on them having some actual interest in implementing that feature.
Plus a Firefox dev would discover that more easily as opposed to this version which they can just dismiss as some JavaScript bug on YouTube's part
The only superior approach here would be one that is consistent enough to be perceived but noisy enough to be robust to analysis.
Also it should be hidden on the server side.
Who knows, maybe there are a bunch of equivalent slow downs on the server side in the Google property space.
Given this discovery it would probably be reasonable to do some performance testing and change the user agent header string of the request.
Google docs, image search and Gmail operations would be the place to hide them.
5 years? 7? Longer?
No matter how they approached it, you could demonstrate the pattern through the law of large numbers regardless. Might as well make the implementation straight forward.
employees will follow orders, orders are made by people who control the money
If your code needs to wait for something, it's better done with some sort of event system or interrupt or similar; the reason being that a 5s wait is a 5s wait, but if, say the thing you're waiting for returned in 10ms, if you're using an alternative solution you can carry on immediately, not wait the remaining 4.99 seconds. Conversely, if it takes longer than 5s, who knows what happens?
Their goal, quite clearly, is to prevent (or at least heavily discourage) adblockers. This is one attempt to detect them, and maybe in Chrome they have a different detection mechanism so it doesn't show the same behavior.
It would be a particularly foolish move on their part to push Chrome by punishing everything else right now, while they are in the middle of multiple anti-trust lawsuits. It makes me think that is unlikely to be the intent of this change.
Hmmm.....
In programming in general, Javascript is generally considered....(I'm savouring the word)...distasteful?
Yea, nah. I put a sleep in a Javascript/Dart bridge the other day.... We can do better, I can do better,
But then I think of some alternative method where they send an ajax request to "sleep.google.com/?t=5" and get a response like "" after five seconds.
(Sorry this is heading into the weeds, but I'm not really a web developer so maybe someone can tell me!)
Never seen the use of exponential notation for numbers in js though (not a surprise, I'm not really a programmer), it seems sensible to me from the point of shifting the domain from ms to seconds.
`1==true` but `1!==true` (`===` and `!==` check for type equality as well and while `!0` is a boolean, `1` is not.
h=document.createElement("video");l=new Blob([new Uint8Array([/* snip */])],{type:"video/webm"});
h.src=lc(Mia(l));h.ontimeupdate=function(){c();a.resolve(0)};
e.appendChild(h);h.classList.add("html5-main-video");setTimeout(function(){e.classList.add("ad-interrupting")},200);
setTimeout(function(){c();a.resolve(1)},5E3);
return m.return(a.promise)})}
GkXfo59ChoEBQveBAULygQRC84EIQoKEd2VibUKHgQRChYECGFOAZwH/////////FUmpZpkq17GD
D0JATYCGQ2hyb21lV0GGQ2hyb21lFlSua6mup9eBAXPFh89gnOoYna+DgQFV7oEBhoVWX1ZQOOCK
sIEBuoEBU8CBAR9DtnUB/////////+eBAKDMoaKBAAAAEAIAnQEqAQABAAvHCIWFiJmEiD+CAAwN
YAD+5WoAdaGlpqPugQGlnhACAJ0BKgEAAQALxwiFhYiZhIg/ggAMDWAA/uh4AKC7oZiBA+kAsQEA
LxH8ABgAMD/0DAAAAP7lagB1oZumme6BAaWUsQEALxH8ABgAMD/0DAAAAP7oeAD7gQCgvKGYgQfQ
ALEBAC8R/AAYADA/9AwAAAD+5WoAdaGbppnugQGllLEBAC8R/AAYADA/9AwAAAD+6HgA+4ID6Q==
v = document.createElement('video');
v.src = `data:video/webm;base64,<as above>`;
await new Promise(resolve => v.onloadedmetadata = resolve);
console.log(v.duration);https://old.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/17zdpkl/this_behav...
[0] Unable to press play and showing image with Ad instead.
Like when I noticed that some sites did some URL rewriting trickery on Firefox and others browsers, but not for Chrome. The trick is to show you the proper URL the link points to, but as you click, it is substituted for one that is a redirection, for tracking purposes (ex: "https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http:://actualsite..."). On Chrome, they don't need to use these tricks as the browser supports the "ping" attribute of links, so they can do their tracking without rewriting the URL.
Thanks for the context!
There's so much trickery and nonsense around this stuff that no link is safe to just click on.
What exact combination of circumstances is required to trigger the multi second wait time?
Load: 4.34s, 5.14, 2.96, 3.35
DOMContentLoaded: 3.65s, 4.56, 2.92, 3.33
Finish: 13.14s, 10.77, 8.49, 12.02
So it's getting a bit faster over time, but still heinous, and crucially, it isn't hanging on requests. Individual asset GET/POST requests are taking tens of ms, worst was a few parallel 254ms GETs on a cold start. Usually 50-70ms. But there is a flurry of requests, then a period of very few requests until 5s after init, then another flurry.
Firefox 119.0 Ubuntu 22.04 uBlock Origin, Privacy Badger
Same OS, chrome 115.0.5790.170, no blockers, youtube is much snappier, it still definitely takes a few seconds to paint thumbnails, but it's basically done by 5s.
Do they serve different js based on the user agent header? If they delay chrome too there's no foul.
Curiously it happens only on one profile, in another Chrome profile (which is also logged in to the same Google account) it does not happen. Both profiles run the code in your comment, but the one that does not have the delay does not wait for it to complete.
The only difference I spotted was that the profile that loads slowly does not include the #player-placeholder element in the initial HTML response. Maybe whether it sends it or not is tied to previous ad-blocker usage?
What does piss me off is that even if you clear cookies and local storage and turn off all extensions in both profiles it still somehow "knows" which profile is which, and I don't know how it's doing it.
> To clarify it more, it's simply this code in their polymer script link:
> setTimeout(function() { c(); a.resolve(1) }, 5E3);
> which doesn't do anything except making you wait 5s (5E3 = 5000ms = 5s). You can search for it easily in https://www.youtube.com/s/desktop/96766c85/jsbin/desktop_pol...