“They took the R1T to a certified Rivian body shop who said the entire rear quarter panel, as well as some tailgate internals, needed replacing. The total cost of replacing an entire body panel and some tailgate bits was reportedly just over $14,000.” https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns...
All in all the cost to repair it was in excess of $18,000 from a third party shop that didn’t do a great job on the finish. That was only $5k less than the Kelly Bluebook value for my car at that point in time.
In short, it costs a lot to repair crash damage. That’s something people probably don’t think about too deeply if they have comprehensive coverage and pay just their deductible.
...and I suspect the car will never be "right" again.
In my case I did have a couple trim pieces that didn’t completely match.
My uncle who knew a lot about cars gave me some advice. He said check how much an alternators costs before you buy a car. VWs seemed to be cheap to people but the parts were astoundingly expensive. But me as a teenage ignored all that. Kind of like people now buying Tesla for the looks, technology but pay dearly for any body damage.
If I showed you a photo of the damage you would believe me even less...
(The morning I got the car back, someone drove into the front and caused another $12K of almost identical damage. That was a great day)
It's unsurprising when you think about it: America is full of larger trucks which have to meet o on the laxest of regulations to minimize pedestrian damage in case of a collision. Where before the contact zone might be on the knees, many a modern truck will hit a pedestrian in the chest. Add to that how America sets up situations very unsafe street crossings, often 8 lanes wide without a median, and increased pedestrian deaths are unsurprising.
Note that this is a matter of most security freatures: Good crumple zones don't lead to tall trucks with large hoods. The only one that adds risk is the curtain airbags that have lead to wider A pillars, and with that somewhat lower visibility. But we could make cars safe and also safer for pedestrians: Just not by driving heavier, taller vehicles that look like 18 wheelers and have frontal dead zones that could hide multiple Miatas.
> Add to that how America sets up situations very unsafe street crossings, often 8 lanes wide without a median
I don't think I've ever crossed an 8 line highway on foot (US native). I definitely wouldn't call it "often". Maybe in a place like LA or Houston? I do cross 4 lanes pretty frequently, though.
Arterial roads, such as those lined with big box stores and shopping plazas, are commonly 3 lanes in each direction at 40mph speed limits (which means cars are driven at 45mph+), plus turning lanes.
Your best case scenario is the crossing being ~56ft, but 70ft+ crossings are normal for busy intersections. Which are ones you would also want to walk across.
Even a two lane in each direction road will commonly have a turning lane or two, making the intersection a 5 to 6 lane wide crossing.
It also threw me off when walking as I could see I'd have to go a couple of blocks but every road crossing took a few minutes. Invariably I'd have to wait at least one light cycle, perhaps 2 if I was crossing both angles. And those light cycles were long.
The worst part was that it was rare to see much vehicular traffic at all except during some key times. What a waste of space.
I had to walk down one of these roads in Denver, let me see if I can find it.
W Alameda Avenue. 7+ lane for a lot of its length. Super sad walk.
[1]:https://twitter.com/remouherek/status/1716012670262931946
This is why it’s important that we fix street design to lower speed limits, reduce conflicts at intersections, and improve safety of road users outside of cars.
I'd think a properly designed crumple zone would only crumple at a "fatality" speed and not at fender-bender speeds. I remember asking a friend why you almost never see Lexus in China - and they said they notoriously crumpled at the slightest collision (there are a lot of very low speed fender benders on city streets there). Other Japanese brands seemed to not have this reputation
New car buyers also have insurance so they rarely care much about collision repair costs. The fact fender benders don’t total the car is just about the only metric car buyers care about.
You can buy a new car with that amount.
This is the Paintless Dent Repair (PDR) for that Rivian that got the famously large bill. They go through what all would need to be removed to replace the panel. It seems extensive.
Suppose your insurance cost is 100$/month for a Subaru and 110$ for a R1T but only 90$/month for liability + personal injury. Now your total bill increased by 10% while they are charging you 2x to insure the vehicle itself.
They may also be getting this calculation wrong, but it’s unlikely to change that much.
I’m guessing taking your Rivian off road will also void the warranty.
If you off road it’s good to know how to repair your rig.
It literally has an Off-Road drive mode with 4 different setups within it and a built in air compressor in the truck need for adjusting your tire pressure when you take it off road.
Wow, that is truly surprising. I’d be more worried about the driver if I were Rivian? What stops someone from driving through a creek and submerging their truck? Damaging their undercarriage on a rock? Sliding into a tree? etc.
> The Rivian was designed, and is, an incredibly competent off road vehicle.
It looks like it doesn’t have locking differentials but that’s usually overkill.
> It literally has an Off-Road drive mode with 4 different setups within it
I’ll need to read more about the “Off Road” drive modes. It sounds similar to the Tacoma’s “Crawl Control”.
> a built in air compressor in the truck need for adjusting your tire pressure when you take it off road.
An air compressor is nice but you can pick up a Tsunami Air Compressor and a tire deflator for like $130.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC5ld79joIA
Note that the Land Cruiser is bouyant in the water and not touching ground.
Front wheels can turn and provide rudimentary front rudder effect wrt force from rear wheels pushing forward.
If 4xwheel drive was engaged the front wheels wouls also be driven and provide a "clawing forwards" directional force.
It's not the ideal boat, but it floats and works up to a point (as seen).
With the engine weight forward it's entirely possible the front wheels were occassionally touching down when over the pan of the crossing.
When the vehichle went to the left of the crossing it's unlikely the front wheels had any contact as the crossing (unflooded) is typically higher than the river bed on either side.
Each wheel has it's own motor.
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/quad-motor-vs-loc...
The Tacoma Off Road Crawl Control is somewhat similar but uses ABS to prevent slips. It does come with a rear locker though.
> If the axles are not physically tied, there is no way for any of the four wheels to know how much traction it actually has until it breaks free. Then, of course, it knows "too much" torque and it can apply traction control. But the damage is done. It has broken free, and any negative consequences have already happened prior to the computer being able to make any further calculations.
> Again, if physically locked together with large gears and drive shafts, there is no possible way for one wheel to break free in that manner, unless of course something is broken.
The real question is can all the wheels go to zero traction at the same moment and thus the computer thinks all is well. I think the odds of that are low enough to not worry about.
From the link:
> If the axles are not physically tied, there is no way for any of the four wheels to know how much traction it actually has until it breaks free. Then, of course, it knows "too much" torque and it can apply traction control. But the damage is done. It has broken free, and any negative consequences have already happened prior to the computer being able to make any further calculations.
> Again, if physically locked together with large gears and drive shafts, there is no possible way for one wheel to break free in that manner, unless of course something is broken.
Some other interesting tests by an R1T owner.
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/quad-motor-vs-loc...
Specifically, wouldn't one line of code that says "never ever ever turn this wheel faster than this other wheel" be totally and completely indistinguishable from having the wheels on the same axle, as far as the physical world is concerned?
You can measure the speed and adjust the power going to the motor if you go over or under that speed. The lower latency that this cycle has, the better, but it can never go to zero like with physically connected wheels.
A physical axle can have both wheels break free too can't it?
Comparing apples to apples the only scenario you're concerned with is where one wheel breaks traction and the other doesn't. Why is a logically driven exact speed match between wheels inferior to a physically linked speed match between the wheels. Explain the difference practically speaking.
Practically, electric motors can't generally transfer torque from one wheel to another like you can with locked hubs. (The only exception would be where your battery is underrated to provide sufficient power to both motor to maximize their torque)
The Rivian case is a bit of a head scratcher. They made some truly odd choices that are making fairly simple repairs much harder than necessary. It is obvious they are new to this.
But, make no mistake, I’m pro-Rivian, and am on the Rivian subreddit.
Rivian owners and fans are quick to jump on any valid criticism of their beloved Rivian and downvote contrary thought into oblivion.
Not surprised you’re getting hate for valid feedback.
Even if this is true (which is unlikely, the first reply says 8K - 12K, the truth is a lot more nuanced), the question we must ask is why do cars crash into each other? We must require all manufacturers to have Vehicle to Vehicle communication (beacons with chips and smarts are incredibly cheap) so they never crash into each other.
Car accidents are the biggest cause of death until late 50s (then cardio vascular, etc become the biggest cause). Modern emergency medicine is incredibly good, there are a huge number of people disabled and injured (but alive!) from car accidents. IN 2021, 42,939 deaths[1]. If we just add up this decade (2020 - 2030), we are looking at 400K preventable deaths.
Consider the injured and damaged vehicles. In 2019: 36,500 people, injured 4.5 million, and damaged 23 million vehicles[2]. In a decade (2020 - 2030), we are looking at 400K deaths, 45 million injuries and 230 million car repairs. And, this is just in US. Worldwide numbers are probably 10x! Body shop repairs are the costliest repairs even for minor scratches and dents.
A car is a machine, the safe operation and liability should be on the manufacturers. Legacy car manufacturers are criminally negligent, they don't know how to do software or electronics. New electric companies, they have a lot of young talent in software+electronics, can build the V2V capabilities to make a car safer.
[1] https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state...
[2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crashes-cost-am...
These car companies suck when it becomes to repairability.