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Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by kalleboo on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:15AM (#37174109)
Anecdotally from friends, I'd say the top three reasons are:

* Lack of money

* Lack of time off from work

* Lack of English skills, making travel abroad intimidating. In previous generations this was counteracted by bus tours with Japanese guides, but those are seen as lame by the younger generations.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by redeeman on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:27AM (#37174221)
> Lack of English skills

if only there was some way to remedy this.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by rwmj on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:36AM (#37174296)
Countries that want Japanese tourists could learn Japanese?
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by wodenokoto on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:04AM (#37174502)
I’ve never been, but I’m told street signs in Guam and Hawaii are often also in Japanese.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by throw5555788o on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:37AM (#37174812)
No.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by thaumasiotes on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:39AM (#37174829)
That has definitely already happened in China and Thailand.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by redeeman on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:34PM (#37183574)
sure, if a country wants to try pull in more, they could. Sounds to me like its the Japanese that wants it most though
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by Brajeshwar on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:51AM (#37174399)
Isn't the "Lack of English skills" easily solved with the plethora of translator devices and apps these days? About a decade+ ago (I think 2010-11), I remember a woman who sat next to me after Narita, traveling "to explore India."

She carried a tiny device the size of a typical compact (make-up thing for person who wants/needs to make up). She had no idea about English but can communicate via her device and it was pretty good at that time. I was pleasantly surprised and amazed by that. Imagine translator devices/apps ten years hence.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by bigbluesax on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:07AM (#37174523)
For me personally using a translator app just adds an additional layer of awkward to every interaction. Where you have to fiddle with it and the other person might not understand how to interact with it right away. It's not a huge problem, but if your not super confident already, it might be enough to discourage you. When I went to japan, lots of people where very hesitant to use their english. Like they didn't want to embarass themselves. I'd never really experienced that before, everywhere else I had gone to previously, people's drive to communicate was usually a lot stronger than their drive to hide weak language skills.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by dazc on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:23AM (#37174670)
I believe it is common with some nationalities (S Korea, for example) to study to the point of perfection but be very reluctant to speak another language outside of a classroom situation.

As a UK citizen, we have the opposite problem.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by makeitdouble on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:22AM (#37174663)
It's nice if you don't have to use it much. Otherwise it's a device that makes all your communication lag, and you'te also putting a lot of faith in the translation when you're alone in a foreign country.

For ordering at a restaurant it's fine. For trying to find a way to go to the consulate because your bag was stolen, it's not ideal.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by midasuni on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:40AM (#37174844)
We coped with that decades ago before handhold computers with connection to enourmous global databases.

Nowadays you just put the address into google/Apple/etc maps, or get an Uber.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by makeitdouble on Friday August 18, 2023 @09:10AM (#37175125)
I love Google Maps, and dealing with local transit is not its forte.

Many countries also won't have Ubers, and/or you'll need a local credit card to use the taxi apps.

Having a smartphone still helps a lot, I'd probably bet on actually reliable web resouces for standard help phrases

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by midasuni on Friday August 18, 2023 @11:36AM (#37177089)
Most cities where intercontinental tourists go to have Uber. And while I use Apple Maps rather than google I’ve used it in dozens of cities in dozens of countries on 6 continents with limited problems. Or of course I’ve just hailed taxied and shown them the hotel business card or location I’m going to.

China is probably the main tricky part, last time I went about 5 years ago I had issues paying with cash, although at least visa was accepted pretty much everywhere.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by makeitdouble on Friday August 18, 2023 @05:17PM (#37182258)
Japan doesn't have Uber, neither does Thailand. Korea also kicked Uber in 2022.

Basically, the shenanigans they pulled to get a foothold in the local markets didn't work everywhere. You'll find local alternatives, but that means local account registration etc.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by mikhailfranco on Saturday August 19, 2023 @01:41AM (#37185876)
Thailand has Bolt in some locations, but in many places there are ferocious tuk-tuk mafias that enforce high rates.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by nikau on Friday August 18, 2023 @09:13PM (#37184385)
I've had no issues with google translate, there is a conversation mode where each person can just tap a button, speak into it, and it converts speech to text and then translates.

Sure you wont want to have a nuanced philosophical discussion, but you can easily have a conversation with it.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by CalRobert on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:08AM (#37174529)
Easy to say when my native language is basically the lingua franca of the world, but in 2009 I went to China with a friend and we managed to get by fine with a combination of gestures and an offline translation app on my Palm Centro....
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by justsomehnguy on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:59AM (#37174465)
Last year I've been asked by a guy for directions to the hotel where he was staying.

It standed out for me because:

a) he was clearly in his early 20s

b) he asked me this after boarding the bus on the same stop as me

c) he could find out the directions just by using a plethora of map/navigation (GPS for Americans) apps available here

d) he was going the wrong way

Just yesterday I saw a woman trying to find out which route she needs to board. She was in ~50s and I can bet $10 she had an Android phone => at least Google Maps. She just didn't even though about using it.

So despite it's 2023 there are people there who still live like it's 1990.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by Brajeshwar on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:12AM (#37174578)
Well, many a times, the analog method are way faster. When trying to figure out the direction of a public transport, especially underground, I like to quickly ask someone for the direction to which a train/tube is traveling to. It is way faster than using a smartphone underground or trying to find the signs that says so.

A habit I picked up when building digital/technology features -- how does this compete with pen/paper or an analog method.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by smokel on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:11AM (#37174564)
I'm in my 40s and I really love fooling around in real life. Observing printed maps by moving my entire body or my head towards it, is more relaxing than having to actively take out my phone and finger my way to the same information on this minuscule device.

I find interacting with sign posts or humans more enjoyable than living in the matrix where I have to find the correct bus provider website, learn to navigate its crappy user interface, finally having to revert to Google maps, and then get the suggestion to go by boat.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by kjkjadksj on Friday August 18, 2023 @11:56AM (#37177486)
Or you can just start with google maps, type in your destination, and take the appropriate bus route that even shows you where the hell the bus is right now, which will also not involve a small rowboat or whatever hyperbole you are envisioning.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by smokel on Friday August 18, 2023 @12:08PM (#37177691)
I'm sorry that you don't appreciate hyperbole, but in Europe, public transport planning by Google Maps is quite often inferior to local services. And these local services do suggest water taxis here and there.

Also, typing in the destination still is cumbersome. I hope we can agree on that.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by bombcar on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:01AM (#37174483)
Foreign travelers often don’t have cell access, or don’t have it until they arrive at their first stop.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by Ekaros on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:06AM (#37174515)
Or they know that roaming is horribly expensive outside certain cases like inside EEA for EEA contracts.

And hunting for working wifi might be complicated as well.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by bombcar on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:12AM (#37174579)
Exactly. You have to be pretty technologically inclined and have done extensive research to determine how to get a data sim in a foreign country, and not get screwed by roaming costs.

Even I, an HN tech god, rely on McDonald’s Wi-Fi and the Here app, even when I do have data enabled, as it’s often painfully slow.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by thfuran on Friday August 18, 2023 @04:53PM (#37181956)
Can't you mostly just pick them up at the airport when you arrive? That may not be the absolute cheapest option, but SIMs are not usually hard to find.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by nikau on Friday August 18, 2023 @09:16PM (#37184404)
Sounds like they are just making life hard for themselves, I always check prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com before the trip and get the most suitable sim card at the airport.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by fragmede on Friday August 18, 2023 @09:40PM (#37184585)
[delayed]
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by nikau on Friday August 18, 2023 @10:23PM (#37184855)
Yep an esim is even more convenient.

Last time I travelled was pre-pandemic before esims were common place, so I just pre-ordered a SIM card online that I just needed to pick up from an airport booth after showing my passport.

Depending on the country and how rural you are travelling it can also be worth checking out the coverage and frequency band compatibility to ensure you get the best reception possible.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by RugnirViking on Friday August 18, 2023 @07:51AM (#37174400)
id probably add to that: Lots of hostile neighbors. Korea/japan (both koreas) relations aren't great, netiher are russia nor china. Meaning you gotta fly a long long way to get anywhere. Similar to how there are many people from american midwest whove never been abroad.

living in europe all my life, almost everyone has been abroad here, but much much fewer have ever left europe, which is essentially what japanese people would have to do to go anywhere that doesnt view them with suspicion

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by The_Colonel on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:40AM (#37174837)
Europe is quite uniquely positioned as a starting point for travelling. There's a big diversity in a small amount of area, with cheap travel options (within Europe flights are cheap). If you want to travel farther, Europe is still "centrally located" relative to the land mass.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by bombcar on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:05AM (#37174505)
The US is so huge that you literally cannot visit another country by land (save Canada, aka Diet US; or Mexico, aka California Sur) - and there are definitely regional variations but it’s all much more similar than even a couple hundred miles in Europe.

A common school trip in the USA is visiting Washington, DC; for some that’s a six+ hour flight. The same flight in most places in Europe would put you in Asia or Africa.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by Shawnj2 on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:33AM (#37174779)
Mexico is culturally completely different than the US and definitely counts as another country lol. Canada mostly doesn’t except for a few regional chains and such but Mexico is very much not diet California in any way
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by bombcar on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:36AM (#37174803)
You have to get pretty far into Mexico; Tijuana and LA are more similar than different. (This may be because LA is something like 50% Hispanic)
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by Shawnj2 on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:44AM (#37174874)
Some parts of Tijuana are similar to some parts of San Diego but for the most part no

A huge portion of socal is Hispanic but the culture overall is more American than Mexican IMO

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by red-iron-pine on Friday August 18, 2023 @10:10AM (#37175837)
bollocks. 10km from the border its going to look and sound pretty gringo -- since thats who its catering too -- but leave the tourist areas and its not the same at all.

plus only ~30% of LA is hispanic, which is roughly akin to all of the US, regardless of what Latin country or area they're from. peruvians ain't mexican, amigo.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by kjkjadksj on Friday August 18, 2023 @11:52AM (#37177402)
No the comment is right, LA is almost 50% hispanic today. A lot of the development for certain neighborhoods honestly looks similar as parts of Mexico. (The more single story, working class, chicken wire and plaster parts of LA at least)
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by LexGray on Friday August 18, 2023 @12:14PM (#37177785)
I wandered just a bit south on a whim with no destination and as you go even a bit past the first major city the roads are empty, people just leave the highway whenever, the city streets are dirt with massive pits, and the small towns can resemble permanent homeless camps with fences cobbled together from box springs. The experience feels quite lawless (or at least significantly different enforcement) than a drive at random in the United States.

I know the whole country is not like that, but it is not a vacation spot I would go without a plan unlike the US where you can do a cross country drive and rely there will be services almost everywhere.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by bombcar on Friday August 18, 2023 @03:19PM (#37180730)
I've been to places like that in the USA, and yes, Mexico is different, but it takes a decent distance to get that different.

But I'll grant that Mexico is another country, unlike Canada :D

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by positr0n on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:36AM (#37174790)
I live Dallas area, Texas. The whole area is commonly referred to as "North Texas".

A common vacation is to drive to the mountains in Colorado, a state to the north west.

To even get out of Texas from my house is an 8 hour, 500 mile (800k km) drive. It is crazy how big the US is.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by bombcar on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:40AM (#37174843)
Texas is big even for the USA; and I believe you can find almost every possible biome there (except polar perhaps) without leaving the state. Whereas some Eastern states are so small that the majority of people leave and return every week.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by red-iron-pine on Friday August 18, 2023 @10:12AM (#37175867)
California and Texas are big enough that you can drive for a whole day and never leave the state; Rhode Island is small enough that you can bike your way out of the state in a few hours.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by pastage on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:46AM (#37174907)
http://emptypipes.org/2015/07/13/flight-times-map/ (centered on DC, you can not change location on mobile)

6 hours will get you to the US from EU.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by resoluteteeth on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:00AM (#37174475)
> id probably add to that: Lots of hostile neighbors. Korea/japan (both koreas) relations aren't great, netiher are russia nor china. Meaning you gotta fly a long long way to get anywhere.

South Korea is one of the top international destinations for Japanese people. It has varied over time, but right now it actually may be the top destination.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by kalleboo on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:19AM (#37174637)
Yeah, and K-pop and K-dramas are massively popular in Japan.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by zirgs on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:12AM (#37174576)
It's not like they have many other options.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by BariumBlue on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:06AM (#37174517)
Taiwan and Japan have friendly relations, and supposed to be a popular destination for Japanese tourists (this I couldn't find real stats on this).

There is also internal Japanese tourism - such as to Okinawa or Kyoto

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by RugnirViking on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:39AM (#37174835)
yep as I understand it taiwan is fairly common. Certainly I know a lot of people in taiwan speak some japanese
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by _rm on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:42AM (#37174863)
Yes reasonably so, Guam and Hawaii are the go-to overseas destinations you hear people mention, but Taiwan is close and cheap. You can fly there LCC very cheap, and the Japanese view it as much more comfortable a visit than say visiting mainland China (because it is).
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by makeitdouble on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:18AM (#37174624)
Counterpoints on the last two:

- South Korea

- Thailand

- Taiwan

- Hawaii

The CNN article does this too, but "traveling" doesn't just mean going to the US or EU. Japanese used to travel a lot to neighbour countries and that didn't cost that much, nor require much english skills.

Now money is clearly a factor, but this would go deeper than travel and more into how many Japanese are giving up on many luxuries as they feel the pressure. Hell, part of the younger generation doesn't want to date because it feels like a money pit.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by koheripbal on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:31AM (#37174753)
Hawaii is far from Japan. Many many countries are closer to Japan than Hawaii
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by _rm on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:38AM (#37174819)
This is correct, but it has settled status regarding an acceptable holiday destination. I.e. while Russia is far closer, very few Japanese have had friends visit there on holiday. Hawaii on the otherhand is in "routine" holiday status, with an established Japanese-catering industry there.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by Ekaros on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:46AM (#37174898)
Also while Russia is close, I don't think there is anything particularly interesting there, that is the Eastern Siberia.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by jstarfish on Friday August 18, 2023 @06:22PM (#37182922)
That's what they want you to think. KAL007 didn't down itself. They have/had military posts out there (and on Kamchatka).
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by makeitdouble on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:59AM (#37175013)
Hawaii is far and expensive, but has the special trait of having many Japanese speaking residents and being Japan friendly in general.
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by umanwizard on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:30AM (#37174740)
Why would any of the places you mentioned not require English skills?
Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by tetrep on Friday August 18, 2023 @08:42AM (#37174860)
What makes dating in Japan "feel like a money pit?"

While I understand it's neither the same country or culture, but for the sake of example, I live in one of the more expensive US cities and dating isn't expensive unless you insist on going to fancy restaurants (which is fine to want to do, but if neither of you feel you can afford it, who are you trying to fool by spending so much?). Coffee shops or similar seem to be the most popular cheap date choices and unless you judge people for not wanting to splurge on dates, I see no downside to them. When the weather is nice there's lots of outdoors stuff that is free / the only cost is transit to and from.

Re:Why Japan has so many ‘never travelers’ by kalleboo on Saturday August 19, 2023 @01:48AM (#37185910)
Yeah I just looked up the actual charts, the current measured drop in travel is clearly just due to the onerous travel restrictions that were around due to vaccination requirements (all the requirements to upload documents etc). Those didn't end until this year in Japan, so I don't think we'll have the numbers to make any real conclusions until the end of 2024...