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Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by lukas099 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @04:40PM (#37153471)
It's insane to me that the Democrats got this bill passed. Were any significant laws passed during the previous presidential administration besides Tax Cut and Jobs Act?
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by noknownsender on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @04:50PM (#37153605)
Same.

I avoided reading up on it too deeply, because it seemed to be much bigger than I was expecting, and I didn't believe they'd get something that big through congressional gridlock.

I basically assumed there were some poison pills baked in, and nothing much would come of it.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by Gibbon1 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @04:52PM (#37153642)
My opinion is the Democrats have abandoned neoliberalism. Combine that with the realization that the 50 year long attempt to bring China into the club has failed. And then the 45th president and Jan 6th. Those have sharpened the Democrats mind.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by idopmstuff on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @04:59PM (#37153753)
I really thought Biden was the wrong guy for the job, with his old-school style of sitting down at the table and negotiating it out being rather poorly suited for the hyper-partisan world of today. He made me look pretty dumb there, and I couldn't be happier about it. Amazing to see that for all the Republican talk of bringing manufacturing back to the US, a Democrat's the one who actually got that done.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by jonnycomputer on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:42PM (#37154272)
I think he's been the most effective Democratic President of my life time. Possibly any President, not just the Republican ones. And he did it by being everything the loudmouth was not. Quiet, serious and disciplined.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by jfengel on Thursday August 17, 2023 @03:07PM (#37166472)
It's a strong case, but there's also a strong case to be made for his predecessor -- for which he had Biden's help. Biden aptly described the Affordable Care Act as a "big fucking deal".

The ACA is severely limited, but getting anything at all passed was a superhuman effort. It was a ton of ground-level politicking, taking advantage of a brief moment of Obama's extraordinary popularity. It might be his only real legislative accomplishment, but it's the most influential piece of legislation in decades.

Obama and Biden had somewhat similar styles in that regard. Obama led the country out of the 2007 recession. For the most part it wasn't flashy, just slow and steady growth without drama. (He was known as No Drama Obama among the DC bureaucrats.)

He himself was much prettier than Biden and inherently more interesting as a human being, so he got more celebrity. But his actual governance was also similarly "quiet, serious, and disciplined".

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by jonnycomputer on Monday August 21, 2023 @05:31PM (#37215626)
The ACA is a BFD, for sure. And I do think that the recovery was hamstrung by not going big enough, unlike the most recent one. Though, different kinds of recessions, so who knows. The real issue I see with Obama is that he was not very good at out-reach to Congress. Some of this was not his fault, but it really wasn't his strong point, or something he even seemed to put much effort in to doing. In that way--partly by personality and partly by his long experience in Congress--Biden is simply better.

It is possible that Obama would have been a better post-Trump President than Biden--I'm certain he'd win against Trump in a landslide--but we'll never know. Certainly it is the case that sometimes it is the opportunities you have--or what the country is ready for--that makes for the success of a presidency, along with a giant gob of good luck.

No Drama Obama, No Cryin' Biden.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by HDThoreaun on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:30PM (#37154132)
The issue is there really is no other choice than negotiating, even if it is poorly suited for the hyper-partisan world of today. The alternative is everything is filibustered and Manchin refuses to override that, meaning nothing passes and the republican strategy of just shutting everything down works.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by twoodfin on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:44PM (#37154297)
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by ketzo on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:51PM (#37154377)
idk how much "sitting down at the table and negotiating" mattered when every Republican in both houses of Congress voted "nay"

not to take away from the bill itself, but it seems like the most important thing was that Democrats just controlled house/senate/white house at the same time and couldn't be easily blocked

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by ceejayoz on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:06PM (#37154518)
At the very least, passage required Senate Republicans not to fillibuster. Democrats have 51 seats there, and need 60 to get most things through.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by trebligdivad on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:04PM (#37153832)
It feels like an easy law to get through 'Would your state like more factories and jobs?' Not many are going to argue.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by tkzed49 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:36PM (#37154196)
Yet all Republicans in the Senate and House voted against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by jdeibele on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:45PM (#37154322)
You'd think so but every Democrat voted for it and every Republican didn't.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by foobarian on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:08PM (#37153867)
It's insane to me that neither side can come up with a viable candidate that is not an (or nearly an) octogenarian. Do talented individuals just not want the job?
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by nostromo on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:25PM (#37154065)
> Do talented individuals just not want the job?

Correct. It's a job where you get very little done, you're constantly cutting ribbons and going to boring galas to fundraise, your life is put under a microscope, and the other side will investigate you and your family and maybe even try to throw you in jail.

Hard pass. No sane person wants the job.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by Guvante on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:38PM (#37154225)
Democrats had quite a few viable candidates last election cycle.

Trump gets over a third of the GOP vote by just lying and so opposition to him as hard as you can't call him out on his lies which makes defeating him impossible, you can't beat the make believe land where everything is possible.

Biden will likely be the nominee as typically the incumbent gets first dibs per tradition.

Technically he needs to win the primary but at minimum the average person needs to be worse off in 2024 than they were in 2020.

Tha might be the case due to inflation and GOP court decisions. But then that leaves the bigger hurdle, who is best to beat Trump the candidate who already did or someone else.

It doesn't matter what the real answer is it matters what people feel.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by hellojesus on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:27PM (#37154093)
Honestly, would you? The pure background someone needs to have to not fall subject to media outings is hard to achieve. Any folks with something to hide become instant blackmail targets of both the public and private sector.

One almost needs to destroy their life to get the job, and even then the chances seem to be so low that you'd more likely end up with a destroyed life and not a political office.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by sarchertech on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:24PM (#37154062)
A viable candidate in the general election who can also win primaries is a bit of a unicorn.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by HDThoreaun on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:26PM (#37154085)
Old people vote. They vote for old people. Young people don't vote. Fully half of Bidens primary votes were from 65+, that was enough for him to win.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by Nzen on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:43PM (#37154287)
Discoverability is a difficult problem. I know my local representatives names. But, I don't know the representatives of adjoining counties. I'm aware of loud national figures. But, to become a national figure generally involves working through the pipeline of local to regional to national authority. Some people might have concern about just voting for someone without experience. Or, how is person without political experience 431 different from person without experience 563 ?
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rhuru on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:59PM (#37154453)
Good societies should not rely on individuals but rather on the strength of the institutions. I think USA passes that bar rather easily.

I don't like either of Trump and Biden. Yet, Trump was very good achieving peace in Middle east, Israel, toning down war rhetoric in Korea and brought China to center as the potential troublemaker of future. He also set the stage for eventual Afghan withdrawal. Not to mention the vaccines were developed under his administration. Now some people will point out that it is not really Trump and all that, but that is the point. Even if American people elect a complete buffoon like Trump, lot of good things happened at critical time as they should have.

Biden, who is clearly mentally unfit for the job, might end up as one of the greatest presidents despite the corruption and scandals. Under his leadership COVID is over, NATO expanded, Russia collapsed, China is seen as enemy by everyone, Europe-US ties are re-energized, India showed more alignment with West, AI revolution has kicked off. Some people will point out that lot of these things are pure luck or someone else's achievements, but that is the point. Institutions are so strong that you can elect a vegetable and the country runs pretty well.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by margalabargala on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:16PM (#37154617)
> Biden, who is clearly mentally unfit for the job

It's not actually clear to me that Biden is mentally unfit for the job.

Certainly there has been some decline; watching videos of Biden in debates in 2012 side by side with 2020, the difference is obvious. But it's not clear that this has been in areas where it's actually necessary. A President doesn't (necessarily) need to think quickly in the moment; they need to be able to listen to the correct advisors, make the correct connections, be willing to apply pressure to foreign leaders, etc. It's not clear that there's any particular role of President that Biden is failing at due to his mental state.

All of this is yet another point in favor of your broader one. You say:

> Institutions are so strong that you can elect a vegetable and the country runs pretty well.

I say, institutions are so strong that you can't tell if you elected a vegetable. Biden is by no means the first in such a situation; Reagan notoriously was showing signs of Alzheimers by the end of his presidency, and the day-to-day was run by Nancy with the country none the wiser.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by failuser on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:17PM (#37154631)
What part of Middle East did Trump achieve peace in exactly?
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by morkalork on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:07PM (#37154525)
The US military has the right idea with the "up or out" policy. Without it, high ranking positions would get clogged up with a bunch of officers who sit cozy far too long, become old and stagnate. Similarly, there aren't good, young candidates because most of the candidate pool is all old politicians who've been at it forever.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by throw0101c on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:33PM (#37154784)
> It's insane to me that neither side can come up with a viable candidate that is not an (or nearly an) octogenarian.

Obama was 47 when first elected in 2008.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by yummypaint on Thursday August 17, 2023 @05:01AM (#37159014)
It's entirely because of the winner take all voting system. It innevitably leads to a two party system in which very few people are able to vote for their candidate of choice. Implementing any kind of ranked choice system would essentially fix this, but it wont happen.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by s3p on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:09PM (#37153875)
No, aside from massive deregulation and constant scandal. The Democrats managed to pull off some of the most cunning maneuvers in political history to get their agenda passed. I think Biden's admin learned from the failures of the Obama years, when they had near-supermajorities and tried too hard to get bipartisan support. Plus, they managed to do all of their 2020-22 bidding with 50 seats in the Senate. absolutely mind boggling.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by riffraff on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:11PM (#37153898)
The Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare") seems to have been a pretty significant development.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by 0xffff2 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:14PM (#37153945)
Not of the previous administration though. That was two administrations ago.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by riffraff on Thursday August 17, 2023 @01:24AM (#37157577)
Oh somehow I read it as administrationS, since I recalled a JOBS Act from Obama too.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by giraffe_lady on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:21PM (#37154028)
bruh that was fourteen years ago.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by senkora on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:12PM (#37153904)
It’s at the point for me, where I assume that any years where the Republicans control government will be years where nothing happens.

The Republican party runs on several broadly unpopular or unwise policy platforms (anti-abortion, anti-weed, anti-welfare, anti-healthcare, anti-immigration, anti-science) and is hesitant to actually implement any of them for fear of igniting opposition.

Recently they’ve taken the side-channel of stuffing the courts and then legislating from the bench, since judicial appointees are immune to voter pressure.

Time will tell how this all plays out for the Republican party. In the short-term, it causes tremendous damage to our institutions.

In the long-term, my best guess is that the current Republican platform will collapse within 10-20 years as the current leadership ages out, and there will be a phase change where the Republican platform recrystallizes around a more modern set of conservative values that appeals more to younger voters. The party itself will likely survive because the two-party system is too stable.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rayiner on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:26PM (#37154091)
> In the long-term, my best guess is that the current Republican platform will collapse within 10-20 years as the current leadership ages out, and there will be a phase change where the Republican platform recrystallizes around a more modern set of conservative values that appeals more to younger voters.

Trumpism is the modern set of conservative values that appeals more to younger voters. Trump was the one that killed GOP efforts to privatize social security and cut Medicare, and he’s been critical of the party’s more extreme positions on abortion.

We just had an election where the GOP won 3 million more votes than Democrats. Trump and Biden are tied in national polling: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4155482-biden-trump-vi...

Meanwhile, Democrats have managed to fend off Trump only through a coalition that includes AOC, most of Silicon Valley and Wall Street, and Liz Cheney. How long do you think that’s sustainable? Democrats have been forced into a neoliberal corner where they can’t actually do anything liberal (raising taxes, criminal justice reform, welfare expansion).

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by maxerickson on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:41PM (#37154265)
If Trump gets convicted we might never get another infrastructure week.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:46PM (#37154325)
> Democrats have been forced into a neoliberal corner

Democrats jumped there headfirst led by Clinton in 1992, and have not, since then, been any farther out of a “neoliberal corner” than they are today (which is not that far, to be sure, but its absolutely not the case that its something they recently backed into in response to Trump.)

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rayiner on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @08:08PM (#37155546)
Bill Clinton started it, but Obama’s bank bailouts and Hilary Clinton’s stirring defense of globalization deepened the shift.

Just look at the electoral map. Obama beat Romney by about the same margin as Biden beat Trump. But Obama’s margin in Michigan was 10 points, while Biden’s was 3. Obama’s 7 point margin in Wisconsin evaporates to 1 point.

Where did those other votes come from? To a significant degree, it was from affluent suburbs were the management class lives. Democrats now are utterly reliant on the very people they need to heavily tax to deliver any of their progressive promises. You can’t have a meaningful liberal party which counts among its base Silicon Valley, Wall Street, and Fortune 500 executives.

And it shows. Supposed democrats will now happily say we need immigration so we can have cheap strawberries. And they’ll embrace social ideas that alienate non-college educated working class people, because their priorities are different. A Facebook engineer can make whatever theoretical statements he wants about universal paid paternity leave. But at the end of the day, he or she gets 5 months from a big profitable corporation, and has no incentive to make the political compromises necessary to advance such a policy.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by ddd00001 on Thursday August 17, 2023 @08:55AM (#37160845)
Democrats are in a weird position where they're relatively moderate in terms of economics, but arguably the furthest left major party in the world in terms of social issues. The latter is turning off non-college educated of all ethnicities.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rayiner on Thursday August 17, 2023 @12:31PM (#37164227)
Even more so when you look past the platform to what they can actually accomplish with the AOC-to-Jamie Dimon coalition they’ve put together. They got a temporary child tax credit through the Trump administration, but couldn’t even make it permanent when they got a trifecta.

Social issues are really the only thing where the party is unified and can push through changes, especially through the administrative state. We didn’t get a permanent child tax credit, or paid family leave, but we did get abortions and DEI in the military.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rhuru on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:53PM (#37154392)
Trump is the least anti-abortion president from GOP.

His core support groups are anti-immigrant groups like CIS, FAIR and NumbersUSA. What is common between all these groups ? They are all founded by John Tanton one of the most pro-abortion and eugenics supporting individual in USA and also responsible for some of the initial Planned Parenthood organizations.

Tucker Carlson was the person who first wrote about this connection 15 years ago.

Trump's key aides like Stephen Miller, Bannon, Lee Cissna, Chad Wolf, Cucinelli all came from the umbrella of pro-abortion Tanton groups.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by ceejayoz on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:03PM (#37154486)
> Trump is the least anti-abortion president from GOP.

Arguing this when it was his three court picks that removed the fifty year old right to an abortion in this country is just a bizarre assertion. Whatever his words, personal positions on the issue (I don't doubt he's paid for a few), etc., he's been the single most effective for anti-abortion folks since Roe v. Wade.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rayiner on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @07:50PM (#37155418)
Trump appointed the same justices any Republican would have appointed. Pretty much any Republican who went to law school after the 1980s opposes Roe on principle. The idea that the Supreme Court can’t just make up new rights is something that united legal conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and social conservatives.

Six week abortion bans are a different matter, both legally and practically. That’s where Trump (and many other business-oriented conservatives depart from the religious conservatives). There’s a reason the Mississippi test case in Dobbs was a 15-week ban with exceptions.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rhuru on Saturday August 19, 2023 @02:18AM (#37186081)
> his three court picks

Court picks aren't political hacks. Trump elected fantastic SC judges all conservative, recommended by key Conservative and Libertarian think tanks and their judgement is very much rooted in principles. Congress should consider making abortion the rights.

I do not like the judgement either but I think it was a very good judgement perfectly in alignment with the US constitution and law.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:05PM (#37154502)
> Trump is the least anti-abortion president from GOP.

Maybe personally and up until he started to run for 2024 maybe even rhetorically. But a lot of that is because other GOP politicians wanted the issue evergreen, as a perpetual carrot to dangle in front of the social conservative electorate.

Trump's the one taking victory laps for delivering on it via the people he put on the Court, and that's not something that just happened randomly or accidentally.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rayiner on Thursday August 17, 2023 @05:43PM (#37168529)
What is "it" referring to? Overturning Roe? Six week bans? Total bans?

Remember, Roe did not say "abortion should be permissible sometimes." It created out of thin air a right to elective abortion until viability, and made that the law in all 50 states. It was an aberration in the developed world both procedurally (the ECHR has consistently refused to recognize a "right" to abortion, leaving it to legislation) and substantively (few countries allow elective abortion up to viability).

Trump is taking credit for overturning Roe--a case virtually everyone who is still a Republican agrees was wrongly decided. But at the same time, he's advocating substantive abortion laws that reflect the center of public opinion: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/campaigns/trump-repu....

It cannot be stressed enough, moreover, that the abortion laws Trump is advocating, which generally reflects public opinion, were impossible under Roe.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by ddd00001 on Thursday August 17, 2023 @08:54AM (#37160830)
Not sure what you're talking about re: "criminal justice reform" - we've had an experiment on that in the last decade that has led to absolute disaster. Low level crime has increased, and now violent crime is increasing.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by jimbob45 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:20PM (#37154013)
So soon have we forgotten about 2006-2008 and 2018-2020? The most difficult part about all this is that no one on Capitol Hill was talking about bringing manufacturing back to the US before Trump and he was laughed at by every Democrat in Congress for wanting to do so. Then, suddenly, once they gain power, the Democrats want to bring back manufacturing.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by mgkimsal on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:37PM (#37154214)
> he was laughed at by every Democrat in Congress for wanting to do so

No, he was laughed at because he's sort of a buffoon, and steel tariffs just raised the cost of everything for people using steel; it didn't have any big impact on 'steel jobs'. It didn't create big demand for more US-made steel. That said, IIRC, they're still in place, and current admin should remove them (perhaps gradual removal over 2 years?)

He did nothing meaningful to spur US-based manufacturing, despite talking a big game. But that was basically Trump all over. (attempting to not get too political here)

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by phone8675309 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:47PM (#37154344)
I don't think that's fully fair - George W Bush really ramped up the weapons manufacturing sector in the US by invading two sovereign countries on false pretenses and killing many civilians through sanctions, regular bombings, and drone strikes.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by Guvante on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:32PM (#37154148)
> During President Obama's 2012 reelection campaign, he told voters that manufacturing jobs would be a crucial part of the American economy's resurgence. His administration set a goal to “create 1 million new manufacturing jobs by the end of 2016.”

Why pretend that Trump was the first person to talk about creating manufacturing jobs when it has been a hot political topic since the first time jobs started disappearing in the US?

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by mcculley on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:28PM (#37154113)
I don't remember Trump pushing any kind of new manufacturing. He was pandering to existing domestic manufacturers with the dumb tariffs.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by mgkimsal on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:33PM (#37154161)
Oh, he talked about it, a lot, but the only effort I ever noticed was, as you say, tariffs. Tariffs seems punitive, and when there's no other option to purchase, you import and pay the tariff anyway.

The Biden push for requiring federal purchases to have more 'made in USA' components seems a combination of stupidly simple, long overdue, and easy to understand. Govt requiring more stuff made in the US - and giving some tax cuts to help spur it - seems like it's a basic way to ignite manufacturing stateside.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by mcculley on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:39PM (#37154232)
> you import and pay the tariff anyway

Yes, I recently wrote about my own frustration with this: https://enki.org/2023/08/01/steel-prices/

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by voisin on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:44PM (#37154294)
> I assume that any years where the Republicans control government will be years where nothing happens.

Now now, I think you are being too generous. In fact, it takes a lot of effort to actively set the country back socially, culturally, and environmentally. Give credit where credit’s due. They work (in reverse) hard.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by aapl88889 on Thursday August 17, 2023 @09:00AM (#37160896)
It's incredible how one can look at San Francisco, Detroit, Oakland, Baltimore and Chicago and say with a straight face that Democrats manage better.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by voisin on Friday August 18, 2023 @10:41AM (#37176314)
I was referring to the national level, and yes I would say Clinton, Obama, and Biden performed objectively and significantly better than Bush Sr, Bush Jr, and Trump.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by tptacek on Friday August 18, 2023 @01:29PM (#37179115)
The mayors of most large cities in the US are Democrats, including Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, Columbus, Jacksonville, Memphis, Jackson, Atlanta, Birmingham, and Indianapolis. Not just your favorite punching bag cities.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by jesserosenthal on Friday August 18, 2023 @02:54PM (#37180411)
I might have missed one but it looks like there is only one city (Miami) with an NFL team and a Republican Mayor. Las Vegas has an independent, former Dem. That list of team cities is:

Arizona (Phoenix), Atlanta, Baltimore, Buffalo, Carolina (Charlotte), Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay (and Milwaukee), Houston, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Minnesota (Minneapolis, St. Paul), New England (Boston), New Orleans, New York, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Tennessee (Nashville), Washington D.C.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rossdavidh on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:16PM (#37153961)
Well they did put tariffs on imported solar panels, which was intended to (and to some degree did in fact) encourage local production, but there was a lot of opposition.

There's a saying: "Only Nixon could go to China", from the fact that only a president renowned for vehement anti-communism could open relations with communist China. The Democrats, at least since Bill Clinton's administration, have been very pro-free trade, after 2016 the Republicans were ready to do this sort of thing, but the Democrats were still pro-globalization. It's because the Democrats were the second party to swing against the idea that all trade is good no matter what the country or industry, that they were able to get stuff passed better.

It should also be said that covid closing of borders, post-covid supply chain problems, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine all swayed opinions as well.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by westurner on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:22PM (#37154041)
Did the solar industry ask for such trade protectionism instead of free trade?

Are industries with tariff subsidies competitive at international price points? Given domestic subsidy, will they be efficient enough to compete in international markets?

How do non- free-trade, non- fair-trade agreements affect other trade agreements?

Trade Protectionism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rossdavidh on Thursday August 17, 2023 @09:32AM (#37161295)
Yeah, I am a protectionist, for sure. Especially for industries like power generation or semiconductors that impact many other industries, and especially if the nation is in danger of losing that industry entirely, such that the skills necessary to compete in it in the future can be lost.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by westurner on Friday August 18, 2023 @12:28AM (#37171406)
Is it ever shown that the net effect of subsidy is preferable to competing at international prices?

"Can’t build a decent car, can’t make a TV set or a VCR worth a f, got no steel industry left, can’t educate our young people, can’t get health care to our old people, but we can [... war euphemism]" -- George Carlin (1992)

Have subsidies saved comparably inefficient [domestic manufacturing] markets, or have trade protectionist subsidies resulted in net unintended consequences when the externalities of "all you peoples' special deals" are accounted for?

Are information services and financial services a viable strategy for long-term growth in GDP?

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by rayiner on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:20PM (#37154018)
Trump’s Treasury Secretary was the architect of the CARES Act. Also, Operation Warp Speed. Ending TPP, which was something HN really wanted until Trump was behind it. Raising tariffs. Several border control initiatives that Biden maintained. Signing the deal to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by Guvante on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @06:12PM (#37154582)
TPP was not loved from the beginning. When it was first listed here it was articles saying expanding US's Copyright laws to other countries was a bad idea...
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by nimbius on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:26PM (#37154090)
as an American its tempting to see this as legislation passed in the service of a progressive advancement of scientific need. This is more of a last-ditch effort to keep up with the joneses for the sake of natinal security, and so it was a pretty easy bill to pass.

Of the top 3 battery or solar producing countries, the US isnt one of them. Longi, Chinas flagship battery company, has been doing this for 23 years while the US is just now getting around to starting a domestic plant to compete. Frankly i dont imagine it will be competitive at all, as it would also be competing with other decades old players in Japan and Korea.

15 years ago it would have made sense to buy up one of these competitive players but that time has passed, and the cannibalistic nature of outsourcing in neoliberal capitalism means a domestic industry is seen as a liability, not a strength. heck, owning any means of production instead of a brand is as well so its no surprise Ford's just kicking this one over to China to solve.

tl;dr the climate bill is about national security, not climate.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by jonnycomputer on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:40PM (#37154245)
It wasn't an easy bill to pass.

It is a climate bill. It is also about re-industrializing America, decoupling from China, securing supply chains, and national security. All of those things.

Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by Guvante on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:40PM (#37154242)
National Security tends to get GOP votes yet those bills got zero.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by Ericson2314 on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @05:29PM (#37154122)
Nope, between LBJ and COVID, the federal government was pretty lame and didn't do anything interesting. End of a shitty era.
Re:the US climate law is fueling a factory frenzy. Here’s th... by pers0n on Wednesday August 16, 2023 @08:40PM (#37155731)
Family leave act, probably the last worker right we got