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Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by routerl on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @01:50PM (#36048072)
> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out.

The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations.

This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by asveikau on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @01:58PM (#36048216)
I feel like it probably costs them very little to keep every title listed for sale. They could be making revenue from it. Probably not as much as when the stuff was new, but something.

I guess by cutting off supply of the old stuff, though, they can do re-releases and re-masters charging somewhat similar to the price of a new game, or get people to pay a monthly subscription fee for access.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by jeroenhd on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:18PM (#36048534)
Keeping stuff for sale can be expensive because of licensed assets. Licensed music has taken games down before and it will again. I don't know the publisher contracts Nintendo signs, but if there's a time duration in the contract, that may open up a very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem.

That said, I 100% believe this is just a way for them to make sure you can't mod second hand 3DS consoles in five years time when they bring 3DS re-releases to the Switch.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by gjsman-1000 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:22PM (#36048593)
> Very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem.

There is tons of licensing issues in the gaming industry under the surface that causes problems all over the place. An extreme example would be Sega's mistakes with Sonic.

Sonic 3, despite not having him in the credits, contains some works by Michael Jackson. That has complicated things tremendously in re-releases, so much so, that Sega has re-released that game far less than Sonic 1, 2, and CD. Sonic Origins, the latest re-release, contains redone music from prototypes rather than solve the licensing quagmire.

But that's not the only licensing quagmire. Guess why the Sonic movies don't have almost any soundtracks or sound effects from the game? According to the Directors, it wasn't a thematic choice, but a legal one. Sonic CD's re-release on smartphones had a similar issue with the opening scene having the vocals removed, because they were from an obscure band that went through a series of legal changes, acquisitions, member changes... This is actually a big problem with re-releases in general. Hunting down who actually owns the rights to a series can be a mess when acquisitions are involved; and you'd better hope the new owners at the end of the road are reasonable and not eager for a quick buck.

And to top it all off, just look up the Kenneth W. Penders story, which single-handedly took advantage of Sega's lax copyright protectionism to "steal" almost 200 characters right from under Sega's feet. Nintendo is no doubt looking at that, and the Sonic music issues, and thinking... man, this is why we protect.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by spondylosaurus on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:32PM (#36048755)
Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3 haven't been available on digital marketplaces for a while because both games include real historical footage that Konami no longer has the rights to use. (Off the top of my head, MGS3 used clips of some nuclear weapons tests, for example.)
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by ohgodplsno on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:42PM (#36049831)
Additionally, the Metal Gear Solid Main Theme is reportedly not available anymore because of debious copyright battles with a russian composer, which led to MGS4 having the Love Theme instead.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by joecool1029 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @05:13PM (#36050929)
> MGS3 used clips of some nuclear weapons tests

Wouldn't this be a work of the federal government and in the public domain? Thinking of all the war movies that used old military footage....

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by dragonwriter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:15PM (#36051522)
> Wouldn't this be a work of the federal government and in the public domain?

Not necessarily

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by JoshTriplett on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:13PM (#36050222)
Have people building games today that use works under license learned this lesson and purchased perpetual licenses, or are they still trying to save money by purchasing narrow licenses that don't work for re-releases or remakes or similar?
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by bombcar on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:36PM (#36050512)
Some agencies understand games now and sell appropriately priced perpetual licenses.

Others still treat a game like a moderatly long one time performance.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by bdw5204 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:09PM (#36051458)
If the agency won't offer a perpetual license at a reasonable price, their content shouldn't be included in the game. It's inexcusable that games are still being removed from sale in a medium where the cost of manufacturing a copy is 0 because the makers of the game signed a bad contract on some minor piece of content in the game and don't want to be bothered removing it.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by bombcar on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:31PM (#36051678)
You agree, I agree, but try telling that to the C-level exec who really wants to use "Stressed Out" in part of the game.

If they ARE using licensed things that are non-perpetual, they should arrange for some way to remove them, if possible.

And it sometimes is impossible, the "Poker Night at the Inventory" games are no longer available because the character licenses expired, and they'd be nothing without them.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by alphager on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @11:24AM (#36059405)
Why pay for a perpetual license if most games see no significant sales after a few years? Everybody that wanted to buy GTA Vice city did it ages ago.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by dragonwriter on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:28PM (#36051657)
Its not just an issue of perpetual duration, but the covered media (e.g., when it comes to use in movies), and paying the necessary premium when a future movie is a distant low probability event may not make sense for game publishers.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by Sohcahtoa82 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @05:34PM (#36051136)
> Guess why the Sonic movies don't have almost any soundtracks or sound effects from the game? According to the Directors, it wasn't a thematic choice, but a legal one.

Why is this a thing? I've heard of game studios having a movie studio make a movie, but then not allow them to use certain elements from the game. It ruins the movie, IMO, and I've never understood why game studios knee-cap movie adaptations like that.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by CodesInChaos on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:08PM (#36051447)
Probably because the game studio licensed those assets from a third party, and that license doesn't cover a movie adaption.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by djmips on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @03:33AM (#36055123)
On the last point, I looked it up and it's an interesting story but it looks like Archie comics is the main culprit behind the lax protection although you could say SEGA is also at fault. Nevertheless, I kind of feel like Mr. Penders won one for the little guy.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by m4rtink on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:14PM (#36051508)
So basically another case study why modern copyright law is broken ?
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by hbn on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:59PM (#36049124)
I'm not so sure it would even pay for itself to continue running at some point. It's not like you can just pay to keep the servers running. It's connected to the internet and surely running on a software stack with dependencies that will have CVEs, or language version lose LTS, libraries dropped for support, etc. and need upkeep. How much money in sales could the Wii Shop channel have been pulling in by the time they shut it down? I can't imagine much.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by asveikau on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:28PM (#36049598)
Firstly, I think you're vastly overestimating these costs. Server resources are pretty cheap. They could probably overlap with online infrastructure of more recent hardware. They probably could also budget a small amount of the dev time to fixing a few bugs with extremely low priority, only the most high severity items prioritized beneath servicing modern stuff.

Second, AFAIK they are running those servers right now with no revenue. They blocked new purchases, but you can still re-download existing purchases. I googled around and it seems like that's still the case. I do not know how long they will maintain that.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by itake on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @05:14PM (#36050946)
You also have the customer support overhead. People will demand refunds. They will claim the purchase doesn’t work on their broken hardware. There will be fraud where people use the service to test stolen credit card.

There is also the staffing element. Maybe the engineers or product people are interested in resourcing a product with no career growth.

There is a hefty on-going maintenance cost for these stores.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by dole on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:17PM (#36049382)
There was that recent Youtuber that spent a few tens of thousands of dollars on every eShop title before they shut it down, so they made at least that much, but on the other hand, it’s all archived now…
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by blairbeckwith on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:46PM (#36049891)
If they had kept Super Mario 64 and/or Super Mario Sunshine and/or Super Mario Galaxy available for sale since their consoles were discontinued, Nintendo wouldn’t have sold 9 million+ copies of Super Mario 3D All Stars.

I bet they make more from re-releasing ports of “vault” titles than they would keeping them for sale forever.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by gjsman-1000 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:55PM (#36049995)
> I bet they make more from re-releasing ports of “vault” titles than they would keeping them for sale forever.

Believe me; movie studios and game companies have re-releases down to a science. Disney (arguably) perfected it first with their "Disney Vault" scheme. It increases the value to buyers when it's available for sale; and it also helps the company if there is little new content to offer for the year.

I'm surprised so few people put together that Super Mario 3D All-Stars is actually Nintendo perfectly following the Disney Vault script.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by crooked-v on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @06:55PM (#36051876)
Disney themselves have abandoned the 'Vault' strategy after deciding that continuous sales were more profitable, which probably has something to do with people not recognizing it and/or thinking it's absurd to see in this day and age.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by naikrovek on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @05:28PM (#36051070)
> If they had kept Super Mario 64 and/or Super Mario Sunshine and/or Super Mario Galaxy available for sale since their consoles were discontinued, Nintendo wouldn’t have sold 9 million+ copies of Super Mario 3D All Stars.

I think they would have. those games are all available on the 2nd hand market easily. I don't mind paying for remasters of games I already own for older hardware, anyway, because remasters are not a big expense for me and by buying remasters I send my vote that I want remasters.

I mean, it's Nintendo's IP. they can do what they want. I think the way they do things is very short-sighted, though.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by astrange on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @07:37PM (#36052186)
3D All Stars has some remastering, but other parts are worse than the original - SM64 doesn't emulate N64 texture mapping properly, making it too blurry, and Sunshine doesn't emulate floating-point properly, leading to physics glitches.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by naikrovek on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @08:12PM (#36052407)
ok? I still bought it and I'm still happy with it.

I don't need it to be perfect.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by asveikau on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:13PM (#36053267)
I'm not sure I follow this. afaik this compilation puts it on Switch, since you previously needed an N64, plus Wii and/or GameCube to play the originals. I guess sm64 was available on Wii and 3ds too. Is the claim that they need to de-list those from Wii stores to get people to buy on switch? Was it available on other means for Switch before?

I think a new port requiring a new purchase seems fair, and there's a target market in that one for those who missed those prior generation of games, or who want it on the switch hardware.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by naikrovek on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @05:22PM (#36051009)
it would cost them very little to keep things online but very little is too much, sometimes.

I would GLADLY pay Nintendo for every ROM I want but do not have, if they would only take my money and sell it.

they choose not to sell. so I feel it is, at a minimum, borderline ok to pirate things that aren't sold anymore. I would give my money, but these companies will not take it.

this is where music downloads were in 2002 or so. maybe a bit later. people were pirating like crazy and record companies would not give users what they wanted: the ability to listen to what they wanted where they wanted.

most pirates (those who don't consider piracy itself a hobby, anyway) don't really want to pirate; they want to play a game, or hear a song, or watch a TV show or movie when they want. They want on-demand access to the things they enjoy. they will gladly pay if only the copyright owners would accept the money, but often they won't.

so the users take things into their own hands. I'm ok with it. but I'm no one and no media company will ever listen to me so whatever.

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:23PM (#36048621)
>The age of abandonware[0] is over.

Yarrr matey, no it aint. It has only begone.

flips eyepatch

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by notho on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:39PM (#36048861)
It remains to be seen whether the soon to generationally churn will succeed in foisting their ways on the yet to exist.

Having a hard time believing a deluge of generative AI content will keep Mickey Mouse worth anything; even if the AI content cannot be copyrighted why would users pay for Mickey Mouse?

Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by gs17 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @03:12PM (#36049293)
This will remain to be seen for a decent amount of time. Generative AI is pretty far from making games as good as the new Zelda without a lot of human work involved (hopefully in the short term we see an indie renaissance).
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by birdyrooster on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:20PM (#36050312)
Except piracy is pretty awesome and works better than the paid alternatives in many cases. It’s just a matter of perspective who is winning and where they are winning.
Re:Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop d... by sleepybrett on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @04:47PM (#36050654)
except that the 3ds' unique form factor means that nintendo really can resell 3ds game effectively on the switch unless they perform major hijinks.