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Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by ryandrake on Friday April 07, 2023 @12:29PM (#35483517)
Casinos are pretty pathetic. They claim to run an honest game, and if you lose, they are totally fine with keeping your money. But, if you consistently win, and it looks even slightly statistically improbable, the casino turns into a crybaby health insurance adjuster, going over the rules/law with a magnifying glass to find something, anything that lets them avoid payment. At worst, the ones run by less savory organizations resort to threats and violence.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by javajosh on Friday April 07, 2023 @12:49PM (#35483839)
The pillars of society are based on the ordinary. When something extraordinary happens, it shakes those pillars and there will be a reaction whether or not it is just. And yes, casino operators are known for a level of self-restraint, basic decency and fairness roughly equivalent to pawn brokers and payday loan operators. Business is predatory when satisfying "customer demand" damages the person, you end up doing business with a bunch of damaged people, which justifies treating them harshly. It's the circle of life, where life is suffering.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by mjklin on Friday April 07, 2023 @10:41PM (#35489970)
“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices” - Adam Smith

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracies_against_the_laity

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by willcipriano on Friday April 07, 2023 @12:53PM (#35483900)
I oppose efforts to legalize gambling not because I dislike gambling but I oppose the theft that we call legalized gambling.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by Pulcinella on Friday April 07, 2023 @01:38PM (#35484429)
Interesting fact: As far as I am aware, it’s illegal to gamble at the casino in Monte Carlo unless you are a foreigner (I.e. it is not legal for citizens of Monaco to gamble there). Probably because the country isn’t actually bringing in any new money if locals gamble.

There really is no reason to legalize gambling casinos. It is just an inefficient way of moving money around. It doesn’t actually create new value for society as a whole. (Friendly poker games amongst friends and family with small pots are probably fine).

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by bagels on Friday April 07, 2023 @02:07PM (#35484810)
There's an argument that the casino provides entertainment/thrill in exchange for money. I think your argument could be applied to most money spent on entertainment if you don't consider it to be creating "new value for society as a whole"
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by Retric on Friday April 07, 2023 @02:11PM (#35484860)
This is why copyright was initially set up as a limited duration. You get 20 years to try and profit, after which society gets the story for free forever.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by pmoriarty on Friday April 07, 2023 @02:15PM (#35484911)
"There really is no reason to legalize gambling casinos."

When you make gambling illegal you just drive it underground and fund organized crime, with all the additional crime and corruption that brings with it.

The arguments against making gambling illegal are similar to many of the arguments against making drugs and prostitution illegal, such as consenting adults should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by Arrath on Friday April 07, 2023 @02:17PM (#35484934)
I'd like if we could find a middle ground between gambling prohibition and ads for gambling right from your phone in every break of sports broadcasts as the situation we're quickly finding ourselves in.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by GCA10 on Friday April 07, 2023 @02:33PM (#35485162)
Slightly off topic, but the profusion of weird prop bets on sports is a path toward quiet match fixing that we may never be able to roll back. I'm seeing this in e-sports already, where players can still try hard to win but also "accommodate" gamblers who are betting on odd metrics like over/under on total kills, etc.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by Ekaros on Saturday April 08, 2023 @07:56AM (#35492429)
I think banning of advertising on various things is entirely reasonable approach. Like in Europe prescription drugs can not be advertised to consumers. And I think that is sensible.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by JackFr on Friday April 07, 2023 @03:14PM (#35485786)
> Consenting adults should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn’t harm anyone else.

So long minimum wage and workplace safety laws, welcome back indentured servitude.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by btilly on Friday April 07, 2023 @02:29PM (#35485104)
Lots of places have such rules, either officially or unofficially.

In Korea, by law you have to prove you're a foreigner. In the Bahamas it is legal for the locals to bet, but the casinos kick them out. They've had enough experiences of a guy coming in on payday, losing his money, then his wife coming in the next day with a baseball bat to destroy the machine that took the money. Don't want any more.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by schoen on Friday April 07, 2023 @03:22PM (#35485884)
In Singapore, local residents have to pay an expensive annual fee to the government in order to be allowed to gamble in casinos, while foreigners may do so for free.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by HeyZuess on Friday April 07, 2023 @09:42PM (#35489566)
The money collected from exclusion fees is quite large, 100s of millions in some cases in a year. The very fact that the collections are so big points to a possible fact that exclusion fees are not a deterrent or stop/reduce locals from gambling.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by IncRnd on Friday April 07, 2023 @03:09PM (#35485716)
> Probably because the country isn’t actually bringing in any new money if locals gamble.

That's almost certainly not the reason. They want the revenue but not the societal ills from gamblers.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by beardedetim on Friday April 07, 2023 @03:17PM (#35485816)
> There really is no reason to legalize gambling casinos.

Why should the government outlaw my ability to give my money away however I want to? If I want to go put all my money on black because it's fun to me, why should that be illegal?

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by jacquesm on Friday April 07, 2023 @01:08PM (#35484070)
The same theft is present in the lotteries and those are more often than not national affairs with the common pot as the beneficiary. Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery?
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by bombcar on Friday April 07, 2023 @01:50PM (#35484587)
Lotteries don't even have the semblance of legitimacy that allowing church bingo parlors does; they're exclusively an optional tax on the poorest members of society. Then again, so many of our sin taxes are.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by IncRnd on Friday April 07, 2023 @03:12PM (#35485747)

  From "Who is buying Powerball and Mega Millions tickets?" [1]
> The general belief is that poorer Americans buy lottery tickets more often than wealthier ones. But that's not quite true.

> The survey showed the most frequent lottery players earn between $36,000 and $89,999. About 56% of that group bought tickets in the last year. Fewer of those making under $36,000 bought tickets, only 40%. About 53% who make above $90,000 bought a ticket.

[1] https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/06/news/powerball-mega-million...

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by bombcar on Friday April 07, 2023 @03:18PM (#35485842)
Keep reading:

>But other studies have shown that when lower income players do buy tickets, they spend far more money on lottery tickets than wealthier players. A study published in the Journal of Gambling Studies found that those in the bottom fifth of income spent the most on lottery tickets, and more than twice as much as the richest lottery players - $433 a year vs. $193 a year.

Most everyone buys a Powerball ticket when it hits a cool billion or whatever it is; but that's not the vast majority of lottery enjoyers.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by IncRnd on Friday April 07, 2023 @06:22PM (#35487801)
Keep reading:

> The poorer lottery players also buy far more of the lower prize games, such as scratch-off instant games which account for the majority of lottery sales.

> The richer buyers are buying the multi-state jackpot games such as Powerball and Mega Millions. And the wealthier players are likely to be drawn in by the big jackpot prizes like those being offered right now by both Powerball and Mega Millions.

The lotteries are not exclusively taxing the poorest members of society, which is what you originally claimed.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by toast0 on Friday April 07, 2023 @05:27PM (#35487185)
> Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery?

I am one. Although, I only enter once per drawing, and only when the pot is large enough that I can pretend it's +EV.

There's a lot of games where I can't even pretend it's even close to reasonable odds, and I don't get much entertainment, so I'll leave those alone.

I do think casinos tend to be regulated to pay back a way higher % than lotteries though.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by late2part on Friday April 07, 2023 @11:18PM (#35490171)
I don't think this EV means what you think it means :)
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by toast0 on Friday April 07, 2023 @11:35PM (#35490271)
Look, when the lump sum jackpot is greater than cost to play * number of possible selections, and I assume that only I will win, then it's a good move to play. The trick is not looking at the financially nonsense sum of payments advertised total. Anyone who was taken business finance knows you can't add a dollar today with a dollar in a year; they're not the same unit; but it makes a better advertised number, so there you go.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by secabeen on Friday April 07, 2023 @06:12PM (#35487696)
The most well-known wealthy lottery winner was Jack Whittaker. His life went downhill after winning, largely due to the winnings and the notoriety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_%28lottery_winn...

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by eloisant on Friday April 07, 2023 @12:57PM (#35483940)
More concerning is that the police and judges will follow on the casino's requests.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by paulryanrogers on Friday April 07, 2023 @01:41PM (#35484474)
Sad because they know who pays their bills, however indirectly, yet it's the little people getting hurt who need protection of the courts the most.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by dfxm12 on Friday April 07, 2023 @04:08PM (#35486380)
Siding with capital is par for the course for LE and courts though.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by listenallyall on Friday April 07, 2023 @07:30PM (#35488494)
Is it "concerning" that police "follow up" investigating store robberies? And judges who convict the theives? How about passing bad checks? Eat-and-runs? A lot of criminal activity is perpetrated against corporations, they should be allowed recourse.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by rufus_foreman on Friday April 07, 2023 @07:57PM (#35488753)
Winning at roulette is not a crime.

There might be a crime involved when someone wins at roulette, there might be negligence by the casino in maintaining their games. There might be luck. Some people do win hundreds of millions of dollars on a $2 lottery ticket.

The police where I live do not follow up investigating store robberies, they do not follow up on people who pass bad checks, and they definitely do not follow up on eat and runs. More often than not they will answer the phone when someone calls 911, but not much more often than not.

So yes, the idea that the police seem to be at the beck and call of the casinos to detain people with no hard evidence that any crime at all has actually been committed is concerning. At least let us know what phone number they are calling that the police actually pay attention to.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by listenallyall on Friday April 07, 2023 @08:39PM (#35489091)
> There might be a crime involved when someone wins at roulette

Exactly. And so, the police investigated. When they determined there wasn't a crime (or at least had no proof or evidence of one), they released the accused and required the casino to pay them their full winnings.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by rufus_foreman on Friday April 07, 2023 @08:43PM (#35489116)
There might be a crime involved when someone <anything>.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by listenallyall on Friday April 07, 2023 @09:45PM (#35489591)
You said it, I just quoted you.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by Dylan16807 on Saturday April 08, 2023 @03:49PM (#35496926)
The thing you quoted did not justify action.

Your "exactly" was wrong, because you're using a different meaning of "might be" than the person who wrote the quote, and given the childish "you said it" reply it seems like you did that on purpose.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by koolba on Friday April 07, 2023 @02:29PM (#35485107)
They do it with online sports betting as well. If you consistently win, you get blacklisted or limited in wager size.
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by bastardoperator on Friday April 07, 2023 @03:13PM (#35485762)
Casinos have never claimed to run an honest game. It's common knowledge that the odds are always in favor of the house with the exception of maybe blackjack where the odds can theoretically be equal. I played roulette for hours at the Venetian with family a few weeks ago and we basically walked away with a ton of money, we got lucky, but they didn't say a word to us, in fact they were friendly to us and took care of us the entire time. Maybe play at a better Casino?
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by reducesuffering on Friday April 07, 2023 @04:37PM (#35486658)
> exception of maybe blackjack where the odds can theoretically be equal

Better than equal. Most Blackjack is -0.6% EV playing basic strategy, but with counting, each true count is an extra ~0.5% of EV, leading to big betting on high count hands with EV of 1-3%. Of course, that's why casinos kick out counters. They're literally "too good" at the game, and they don't want that.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by joshyeetbox on Friday April 07, 2023 @05:03PM (#35486966)
I thought casinsos started using multiple decks (like 6) and auto shuffled between games now so that counting was pretty much impossible?
Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by reducesuffering on Friday April 07, 2023 @06:31PM (#35487903)
Multiple decks, like 6, is what I mean by "most blackjack." Yes, the 6-deck shoe is shuffled after about 75% of those decks are played. There are certain casinos that have "continuous shuffling machines" that shuffle every hand. Those are impossible to count, but rare.

6 decks, as opposed to 1 or 2, does make counting less accurate. But ultimately everything I said previously applies. Those stats are based on the current common game of 3-2 Blackjack, H17, 6-deck shoe, no continuous shuffle, and double after split.

Re:The Gambler Who Beat Roulette by vikingerik on Saturday April 08, 2023 @01:03AM (#35490702)
Counting works fine with 6 decks. And they don't shuffle after each hand - that would slow down the game so that not as many hands will get played.

Counting works but the way to profit from it is easily detected. You have to bet big when the count is favorable, and a casino will see that and stop you.

The MIT Blackjack Team beat this, with the strategy to have one player at the table who would bet small while counting cards, incurring the expected slight losses to the house edge, and signal a teammate to jump in and bet big (like $5k per hand) when the count was favorable. Casinos now know to stop this - if you walk up to a table and want to bet big, they will require you to wait for the next reshuffle (or just reshuffle immediately.)