But the times software like this finds actual problems vastly outnumbers of times it doesn't, and when you choice is between "passing kids/undergrads who cheat the system" and "the occasional arbitration", you go with the latter. Schools don't pay teachers anywhere near enough to not use these tools.
For plagiarism suspicions at least the verification is simple and quick (just take a look at the identified likely source, you can get a reasonable impression in minutes) - I can't even imagine what work would be required to properly verify ones flagged by this classifier..
Yet.
I don't think that this is something that can change through tech advances for the classifiers - in all cases the classifier is just flagging for investigation, it's not sufficient for any action. For plagiarism, appropriate evidence comes from a person comparing the submission with the possible source of plagiarism. For this one, the proper evidence would require getting confirmation that the student actually generated that data - e.g. identifying the exact tool and prompt that was used, or logs from the students' computer showing that this was done, or logs from the text generation service provider. All of those are quite tricky to get and perhaps even not possible.
I'm pessimistic, given they chose not to do so.
How often is that the case though? A while since I've had to worry about it, but I thought plagiarism detection generally worked on the principle of looking for the majority of the content being literal matches with existing material out there with only a few small edits, which - unlike using some "AIish" turns of phrase a bot wrongly attributes to humans 9% of the time and correctly attributes to AI with a not much better success rate - is pretty hard to do accidentally.
As a result, I have taken out quotes and citations to appease it and not have to deal with the hassle.
I expect modern day students will resort to similar measures.
Maybe high school is a different matter, but I'm pretty sure even the most technophobic academic knows that jargon, terse definitions and the odd citation overlapping with stuff other people have written is going to make a similarity of at least 10% pretty much inevitable, especially when the purpose of the exercise is to show you understand the core material well enough to cite and paraphrase and compare it, not to generate novel academic insight or show you understood the field so well you didn't need to refer back to the source material. The people they were actually after were the ones that downloaded something off essaybank, removed a couple of paragraphs and rewrote the intro to match the given title and ended up with 80%+ similarity
Yeah, that is useless. You couldn't punish based on that alone and students will quickly figure out to never confess.
This is the part that needs to be addressed the most. Teachers can't offload their critical reasoning to the computer. They should ask their students to write things in class and get a feeling for what those individual students are capable of. Then those that turn in essays written at 10x their normal writing level will be obvious, without the use of any automated cheat detectors.
I was once accused of cheating by a computer; my friend and I both turned in assignments that used do-while loops, which the computer thought was so statistically unlikely that we surely must have worked together on the assignment. But the explanation was straight forward; I had been evangelizing the aesthetic virtue of do-while loops to anybody that would listen to me, and my friend had been persuaded. Thankfully the professor understood this once he compared the two submissions himself and realized we didn't even use the do-while loop in the same part of the program. There was almost no similarity between the two submissions besides the statistically unlikely but completely innocuous use of do-while loops. It's a good thing my professor used common sense instead of blindly trusting the computer.
ask their students to write things in class and get a feeling for what those individual students are capable of. Then those that turn in essays written at 10x their normal writing level will be obvious
From first-hand experience, the difference between poor stress-related performance and a total lack of knowledge is night and day.
I have personally witnessed students who could not speak or understand the simplest English, and were unable to come up with two coherent sentences in a classroom situation, but turned in graduate level essays. The difference is blindingly obvious.
Maybe someone helped them with their homework?
Professors blindly trust the computer not out of laziness, but to protect themselves from accusations of unfairness...
"The work was detected as plagiarism, but the professor overrode it for the pretty girl in class, but not for me"
2. digitize & feed to learning model, which detects that YOU are cheating.
upside: this also helps detect students who are getting help (e.g. parents)
downside: arms race as students feed their cheat-essays (memorize their essays?) into AI-detection models that are similarly trained.
That said, there's no need to consider changes in years when stylistic choices can change from one day to another depending on one's mood, recent thoughts, relationship with the teacher, etc.
That's why I've always been a little confused about how some (philologists?) treat certain ancient texts as not being written by some authors due to the text's style, as if ancient people could not significantly deviate from their usual style.
Initially I thought you meant having the student write an essay about slurs, as the AI will refuse to output anything like that. Then I realized you meant "N" as in "Number of words".
Still, that first idea might actually work; make the students write about hotwiring cars or something that's controversial enough for the AI to ban it but not controversial enough that anybody will actually care.
Why once? Most students need writing skills more than half the high-school curriculum.
Downside: it also likely detects, without differentiation, students whose writing style undergoes a major jump because of learning, which is, you know, the actual thing you are trying to promote.
Teachers don't have the time to do deep critical reasoning about each student's essay. An essay is only partially an evaluation tool.
The primary purpose of an essay is that the act of writing an essay teaches the student critical reasoning and structured thought. Essays would be an effective tool even if they weren't graded at all. Just writing them is most of the value. A big part of the reason they're graded at all is just to force students to actually write them.
The main problem with AI generated essays isn't that teachers will lose out on the ability to evaluate their students. It's that students won't do the work and learn the skills they get from doing the work itself.
It's like building a robot to do push ups for you. Not only does the teacher no longer know how many push ups you can do, you're no longer exercising your muscles.
That's our problem, I think. Education keeps failing to convince students of the need to be educated.
The value of an education is much less clear.
I'm saying the students are probably right.
I think companies face a similar problem when they try to introduce metrics to evalute performance, either of individual employees or of whole parts of the company, and people start focusing on gaming these metrics instead of doing what's actually beneficial to the company. One reason for that is probably that it's really hard to evalute what actually beneficiates the company, and what part you played in it.
Back to students, maybe writing that essay instead of asking GPT-3 is more beneficial in the long run, but on the other hand you're also learning to use a new tech that will keep getting better, but maybe you're not learning the "value of hard work correctly", etc etc. Evaluating what's good for you is very hard, focusing on a good grade is easier and has noticable positive results. I think getting educated is very important, but I also think no one can certainly known if learning to use AI is actually a worse thing that doing stuff "yourself".
All in all, it's a very hard problem. It's trying to see the consequences of our own actions in very complex systems. And different people work differently. For example, when I use ChatGPT or Copilot, I end up spending more time overall working, and producing way more stuff even without counting what the AI "produced", because the back and forth between me and the AI is a more natural way of working for me. In the same vein, it's easier for me to write or even think by acting out a conversation. Maybe for some people it's the exact opposite and they need to be alone with their thoughts to be more productive.
Then it’s less about the predetermined structure (5 paragraphs) and limited set of acceptable reasoning (whatever is on the rubric), and more about using creative and critical thinking to form novel and interesting perspectives.
I feel like this is what a lot of universities and companies currently claim they want from HS and college grads.
So I invite them to use chatGPT or whatever they like to help generate ideas, think things out, or learn more. The caveat is that they have to submit their chat transcript along with the final product; they have to show their work.
I don't teach any high-stakes courses, so this won't work for everyone. But educators are deluded if they think anyone is served by pretending that (A) this doesn't/shouldn't exist, and that (B) this and its successors are going away.
All of this stuff is going to change so much. It might be a bigger deal than the Internet. Time will tell.
Or have a session on how to write the prompts to generate the good stuff. In the hands of a skilled liberal artist, the models produce amazing results.
Yes the tool is powerful, but it still requires skills, knowledge and an ascetic voice.
And then, there is the problem that those complex prompts might also become automatable when GPT-4 or GPT-5 is released.
While I already knew what you have described, I love this analogy, it's really spot on.
Projection much? Who are you speaking for? What countries, what states?
It's difficult to dive in that deep into someone's essay in any case. That's the challenge, not the lacking quality of one's education system.
Edit. I sometimes tell my students “if you’re going to cheat, don’t give yourself a perfect score, especially if you’ve failed the first exam. It fires off alarm bells.”
But the students who struggle usually can’t calibrate a non-suspicious performance.
I guess the same applies here.
Unfortunately, the software industry also has plenty of literal tools who are far too trusting of what the computer says (or authority in general, but that's another rant...)
For example I had a paragraph or two get flagged as being very similar to another paper - but both papers were about a fairly niche topic (involving therapy animals) and we had both used the relevant quotes from the study conclusions from one of only a few decent sources at the time - so of course they were going to be very similar.
Given that most essays are about roughly the same set of topics, and there are literally hundreds of thousands of students writing these - I wonder how many variations are even possible for humans to write as I would expect us to converge on similar essays?
"Tom had a single paragraph flag as possibly generated" vs "Every single paper Tom writes has paragraphs flag"
Basically we might have to move to detecting statistical outliers as cheating. Now whether the tools/teachers will understand/actually do that - we can only hope....
If we assume the challenger set is evenly split 50-50, that means
P(AI|T) = P(T|AI)P(AI)/P(T) = (0.26)(0.5)/(0.26+0.09) ~ 37%
They say the web-app uses a confidence threshold to keep the FPR low, so maybe these numbers get a bit better, but very far from being used as a detector anywhere it matters.
This will obviously depend on your circumstances.
Source: Spent 10 years trying to explain this to government people who insisted that someone tell them Precision based purely on the classifier accuracy without considering usage.
If we have 300M people in the US and only 1k terrorists, then you need 99.9999% accuracy before you start getting more true positives than false positives. If you use this in a classroom where no one is actually using AI you'll get false positives, and in a class where the usage is average you'll still get more false positives than true ones, which makes the test do more harm than good unless it's just a reason to look into it more - and the teacher is presumably already reading the text so if that doesn't help than this surely won't
Instead of being overzealous about catching cheaters, teachers should learn to express the importance of writing and why it is done. Convince the students that they should do it to be a smarter person, not just to get a grade, and they will care more about doing it honestly.
With ai taking over technical skills, it seems clear to me that they will be values less. Instead, the soft skills will be the valued ones
1. There will be commercial products to tune per-student writing models.
2. Those models will be used to evaluate progress and contribute directly to scores, grades, and rankings. They may also serve to detect collaboration.
3. The models persist indefinitely and will be sold to industry for all sorts of purposes, like hiring.
4. Thy will certainly be sold to the state for law enforcement and identity cataloging.
- teachers will assign less mind-numbing essay homework assignments and focus more on oral interviews.
[1] Me, giving young adults that worked for me a commission rate. Then asking if their commission rate is 15% and they sell $100 of goods what is their payment. Many failed to provide an answer.
[1] https://www.timeshighereducation.com/opinion/ai-will-replace...
(turn off js to jump signup-wall)
However, hundreds of hours of video is compelling to non-technical audiences and even more importantly is a preponderance of evidence that's going to be particularly damning if played in front of a PTA meeting.
With a git history it's going to come down to who can spin the better story. The video is the story and everyone recognizes it, so I expect fewer people would bother even challenging its authenticity.
And properly used you might not even have to relinquish privacy if falsely accused. A quick montage video demo and a promise to show the full hundreds of hours of video of "irrefutable" proof to embarrass the school district at the next PTA meeting might be sufficient to get the appropriate response.
Of course there are some people who put insane amounts of effort into not doing "real" work. However, anyone trying to prove that your child is in that position is going to find themselves in an uphill battle.
Which is the ultimate goal here. Make people realize that falsely accusing my children using dubious technology is going to be a lot more work than just giving up and leaving them alone.
The co-author on this is includes Professor Scott Aaronson. Reading his blog Shtetl-Optimized and reading his [sad/unfortunate/debate-able/correct?/factual?/biased?] views on adverse/collateral harm to Palestinians civilians makes me question whether this model would fully consider collateral damage and harm to innocent civilians, whomever that subgroup might be. What if his model works well, except for some minority groups' languages which might reflect OpenAI speak? Does it matter if the model is 99.9% accurate if the 0.1% is always one particular minority group that has a specific dialect or phrasing style? Who monitors it? Who guards these guards?
We can’t release the ai-generated text detection model. Lazy teachers will use it to falsely accuse children of cheating!
The problem here appears to be lazy people.
Can we train an AI to detect lazy people? I promise not to lazily rely on it without thinking.
bringing the Roman decimation to the classroom based on AI, this is the future
We’re entering an uncanny valley before a period of “reset” with self taught (to stay on subject here) people re-learning for the sake of learning.
In 30 years we will be in an educational renaissance of people learning “like the old masters did in the 1900’s.”
People are wayyyy too optimistic, just like in the 1900s they thought people would have flying cars but not the Internet, or how Star Trek’s android Data is so limited and lame.
Bots will be doing most of the work AND have the best lines to say, AND make the best arguments in court etc.
You don’t even need to look to AI for that. The best algorithms are simply uploaded to all the bots and they are able to do 800 things, in superhuman ways, and have access to the internet for whatever extra info they need.
When they swarm, they’ll easily outcompete any group of humans. For example they can enter this HN thread and overwhelm it with arguments.
No, the old masters were needed. Studying will not be. The Eloi and Morlocks is closer to what we can expect.
Since the advent of drum machines, a lot of younger players have started playing with the sort of precision that drum machines enable. eg: The complete absence of swing, and clean high-tempo blasts/rides.
So you'd get accusations of drummers not being able to play their own songs, because traditional drummers think such technically complex and 'soulless' performances couldn't possibly be human. Only to then be proven wrong, when it turns out that younger players can in fact do it.
The machine conditions man.
That's uninformative enough that I'm surprised they launched this publicly at all.
Prompt => AIGen (White Hat) => Obfuscate(Black Hat) => Final Text
Then of course the AI can whisper the student what to write to your ear. So perhaps homework will have to be done at school? School that checks its students with a metal detector when they enter. (Some schools use them already to check for guns?)
On a side note Im very shocked how lax is everything in those proffessional chess tournaments. It feels there are many ways to cheat and they dont try to do anything against cheating. They should use metal detectctors (to detect computers inside stomach or tooth), they should host everything inside a bunker (so no radio), without audience (who can do various tricks) and in a secured environment (all cameras chcecked to be sure they are legit).
Those chess tours look like cheating galore for me, although I dont play chess.
1. Classifiers like this are used to flag possible AI-generated text
2. Non-technical users (teachers) treat this like a 100% certainty
3. Students pay the price.
Especially with a true positive rate of only 26% and a false positive rate of 9%, this seems next to useless.