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Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by hiidrew on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @03:07PM (#34509479)
Just noticing the medium author, this guy posts fantastic breakdowns of plane crashes on r/catastrophicfailure

Have to say the simulator part makes me lean heavily towards the pilot crashing it purposefully, from the article -

"The most widely reported piece of evidence tying Zaharie to the disappearance was a course he had charted on his home flight simulator about a month before the crash. Zaharie had a number of hobbies, including paragliding and flying model airplanes, but he also spent a lot of time at home on his computer playing flight simulator games. He sometimes uploaded videos of himself playing on his YouTube channel, where he comes off as affable and knowledgeable, if a bit socially awkward.

In 2014, a leaked Malaysian police report revealed that among Zaharie’s saved flight simulator sessions was a very odd route which ran up the Strait of Malacca, turned south after passing Sumatra, and then flew straight down into the Southern Indian Ocean before terminating in the vicinity of the seventh arc. Not only did the track resemble MH370’s actual flight path, it also contained a number of other intriguing details. For example, the track wasn’t really a track — rather, it was a series of brief clips lasting no more than a few seconds each, indicating that Zaharie had programmed it in advance then skipped along it to various points without actually playing through the entire hours-long flight. Furthermore, although initial reports indicated that the track had been intentionally saved by the user, later analysis showed that it was kept only in the system files, and certainly was not meant to be found. Was this a dry run? It seems too odd to be a coincidence."

Also discovering that black box is a misnomer is mildly humorous, these are apparently orange! - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by Railsify on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @03:36PM (#34509934)
'Black box' is referring to the lack of visibility inside the box and to the fact that you can't tamper with it, what goes in stays in.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by LarryMullins on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @03:50PM (#34510148)
Flight recorders are called black boxes because they originally were black-colored boxes.

"Black box" in the sense that you are describing is an unrelated term.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by travisjungroth on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @04:16PM (#34510532)
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ignoramous on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @04:34PM (#34510777)
nb: Wikipedia favours verifiability over truth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wp:vnt

> Wikipedia values accuracy, but it requires verifiability. Wikipedia does not try to impose "the truth" on its readers, and does not ask that they trust something just because they read it in Wikipedia. We empower our readers. We don't ask for their blind trust.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by wpietri on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @05:39PM (#34511614)
You sound like you have a problem with that, but I can't fathom what alternative course you'd rather them pursue.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ignoramous on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:07PM (#34511935)
It is just a note. I don't mean it to sound anything other than what Wikipedia itself states. I see a tonne of "Wikipedia agrees" but none of "Wikipedia is a living document" and it isn't its place to be a gospel of truth...
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by outworlder on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:29PM (#34512666)
Wikipedia is not and cannot, as per their own policies, be the primary source. 'Wikipedia agrees' is shorthand for 'the sources mentioned by this particular Wikipedia article agree'
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by loeg on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:42PM (#34512766)
I think it's shorthand for "the collective Wikipedia editors agree," which is not exactly the same thing as saying every claim is backed by any particular source.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by 93po on Thursday January 26, 2023 @08:25PM (#34541330)
I think more accurately, "the group of Wikipedia editors that managed to 'win' a debate agree".
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by travisjungroth on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @08:48PM (#34513333)
You see none of "Wikipedia is a living document"? I think people are pretty aware.

You see a lot more cases of people quoting Wikipedia on a topic than talking about Wikipedia's trustworthiness because it adds a second dimension. It's [Wikipedia, Topic] vs. [Wikipedia].

I might look up 100 different things on Wikipedia. The fact that Wikipedia has all sorts of flaws is something I only needed to learn once.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by andrewflnr on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:51PM (#34513780)
The phrase "Wikipedia agrees" succinctly encodes the correct degree of confidence, as opposed to "it's true, see Wikipedia".
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ignoramous on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @06:51AM (#34517189)
An argument can be made, I guess, if one leaves out the exclamation... "Wikipedia agrees!"
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by andrewflnr on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @09:49AM (#34518851)
You're really reaching for nitpicks, there.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by basementcat on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:12PM (#34511997)
Some flight data recorders are still housed in black boxes! Here’s one from the back of a 747 in the Museum of Flight in Seattle, WA (sorry for my lousy photography) https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApyfVMR9dcxJnUDadgS2DDI_XUFa

The orange box is the cockpit voice recorder.

https://www.museumofflight.org/

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by moffkalast on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @05:13PM (#34511307)
And Valve would sue them if they called it The Orange Box.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by TylerE on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @03:54PM (#34510212)
If you enjoy this sort of thing, I'd encourage you to check out this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/user/blancolirio

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by pigtailgirl on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @04:28PM (#34510703)
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:19PM (#34513564)
74 Gear deserves a mention https://youtube.com/@74gear
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by canjobear on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @04:18PM (#34510567)
For reference, Zaharie's Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@catalinapby1
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ak_111 on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @04:57PM (#34511099)
Imagine one day all of a sudden a low-quality few seconds long video is uploaded to the channel showing only someone filming their feet as they stroll on on a beach.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by moffkalast on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @05:43PM (#34511667)
Well the found wreckage pieces apparently point to a controlled ditching, so it's not entirely impossible for the guy to be alive somehow.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by loeg on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:43PM (#34512770)
In the middle of the Indian ocean, thousands of miles from land. It's unlikely.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by moffkalast on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @05:24AM (#34516654)
Yeah he almost certainly drowned or died on impact, but imagine if he brought a parachute and jumped out a bit before, then got picked up by a friend in a boat. That would be some serious DB Cooper shit. Wouldn't really make sense for a guy committing suicide though I guess.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by jki275 on Thursday January 26, 2023 @08:38PM (#34541415)
I'm relatively sure that's not possible.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by agnos on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @08:04PM (#34512949)
Unlikely that he's still alive, but the evidence of a controlled landing makes the whole thing more puzzling from a psychological perspective. Why slowly and consciously drag it out until the very bitter end when you've already completed your suicide mission?
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by teedeepee on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:29PM (#34513639)
I find the controlled ditching hypothesis less psychologically puzzling, not more, for at least three reasons: ego, agency, and practicality.

First, successfully ditching an aircraft at sea is the ultimate test of piloting skills, and possibly one difficult to resist for the ego of a seasoned captain on his final flight.

Second, it seems out of character for a meticulous pilot to just let the aircraft slip out of his control and crash haphazardly at the very end of a carefully-plotted sequence of murderous steps.

Third, a ditching would better obfuscate the final resting place of the aircraft compared to an uncontrolled dive, as it would result in fewer scattered debris floating away.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by heleninboodler on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:45PM (#34514505)
Fourth, if he had any last minute regrets about offing himself (which he had hours to contemplate), it would probably be practically reflexive to keep the plane aloft as long as possible and ditch it as smoothly as possible.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by mayormcmatt on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @04:36PM (#34524514)
Man, these are each really good reasons for the controlled ditch theory. Food for thought.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by DonaldFisk on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @10:50PM (#34514194)
MH370 was out of control when it hit the water, according to the ATSB: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/mh370-latest-debris-a...
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by moffkalast on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @05:27AM (#34516672)
> Several leading air crash investigators, along with the French team that initially examined the flaperon, reported that the damage to the trailing edge would be consistent with the plane impacting the water in a level attitude with the flaps extended to the landing position. The fact that the flaperon (as well as several other pieces) were relatively intact also suggested that the energy of the impact couldn’t have been especially great.

Just some fun speculation on what's written in the original article, not like we'll ever know for sure.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by return_to_monke on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @07:06AM (#34517290)
this is mentioned in the article. there are things pointing to the contrary, mostly that the plane didn't shatter onto a million different pieces upon impact
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by jahewson on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @12:49AM (#34514877)
This is not true.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by euroderf on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @02:38AM (#34515505)
Maybe a rendezvous with a recovery vessel ? Any evidence that he had access to piles of cash ?
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by Cthulhu_ on Friday January 27, 2023 @06:04AM (#34544749)
While not impossible, it's unlikely - he'd have to survive the crash first (and given it's likely the plane ran out of fuel and power it would be more difficult), and even then, given he went all the way out to the middle of nowhere, it would not have been his intent. Even if he did survive the crash and get out before the plane sunk and got on a life raft with a planeload of supplies like food and water, he'd still have a very low chance of being found or washing up somewhere. And it took a while before they even started to look in the general direction of where the plane would have crashed, so it's not likely he'd be found that way either. It took nearly a year for debris to start washing ashore in Africa.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by mertd on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:43PM (#34514494)
That would be on the same level as Satoshi's wallet address turning up in a transaction.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ak_111 on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @06:57AM (#34517221)
For me personally I would put it a few orders of magnitude of a surprise above satoshi being alive.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by duxup on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @05:49PM (#34511742)
It is very strange. At the same time I imagine a lot of actions in flight simulators are odd choices you might not make in real life.

I know I did a lot of poor flying….

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by wiredone on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:57PM (#34513825)
As a trained pilot, flight planning is a huge part of your job.

Navigation is also a big part of the job. if you assumed you had to turn off parts of your nav equipment to avoid detection, then visual reference (ie flying the path to visually memorise/familirise yourself with wayppoints) would be something you'd certainly do - and a flightsim would be perfect for this.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by monkeywork on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:09PM (#34514297)
was the terrain modeling good enough at that time to really train you for that? Current MSFS sure but the version he was running?
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by gymbeaux on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:58PM (#34514590)
Sure. Flight Simulator X came out around 2006 and at max settings looked great. Current FS is obviously better, but FSX was adequate.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by SteveNuts on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:58PM (#34513830)
Miegs field. Cessna 172. Enable slew mode.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by gymbeaux on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @11:59PM (#34514606)
Flight Sim 95? Outstanding.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by Cthulhu_ on Friday January 27, 2023 @06:05AM (#34544757)
I couldn't fly seriously in a flight sim, I'd get bored quickly and do a loop or dramatic crashes, lol.

I mean I'd still like to try out the new MS Flight Simulator because it's impressive technology.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by generalizations on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:18PM (#34512057)
> it was a series of brief clips lasting no more than a few seconds each, indicating that Zaharie had programmed it in advance then skipped along it to various points without actually playing through the entire hours-long flight

I'd be curious which parts of the flight path those clips represented. Were they at important navigational landmarks? Were they nice vistas, places he wanted to see before a suicidal plunge? If they were only a few seconds each, that might indicate that he was checking those points for intentional reasons, rather than for fun.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by _s on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:43PM (#34512274)
I could be remembering wrong - but he skipped the "straight" bits, and only flew the parts where his interaction was needed.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by hammock on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:20PM (#34512072)
>Have to say the simulator part makes me lean heavily towards the pilot crashing it purposefully

A related suggestion to be aware of is that the plane was shot down by the US or US-friendly forces, as several of the flight simulations were reportedly the pilot landing at Diego Garcia, a relatively secret US air base in the Indian Ocean. The theory continues that the US purposely got the search parties to focus on a different search area first while they cleaned up the debris

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by rootusrootus on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:34PM (#34512194)
I'd rate the ability of the US Gov't to successfully keep something like that a secret to be roughly zero, plus or minus zero.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by jjav on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:31PM (#34512681)
> I'd rate the ability of the US Gov't to successfully keep something like that a secret to be roughly zero, plus or minus zero.

You'd be very wrong. There are hundreds (thousands? tens of thousands?) classified missions going on all the time involving large amount of people. And aside for the exceedingly rare whistleblower, all of them are kept secret for decades or more until they get declassified (sometimes never).

(Not trying to give any credibility to the previous comment, just commenting on how effectively governments keep classified secrets.)

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by rootusrootus on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @08:38PM (#34513246)
As I said, 'like that.' It is difficult to imagine a reasonable comparison between all of the mundane secret missions going on every day, and shooting down an airliner. This is on the level of 9/11 conspiracies. It's just not possible for something that huge to stay secret for long.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ceejayoz on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @08:44PM (#34513298)
> There are hundreds (thousands? tens of thousands?) classified missions going on all the time involving large amount of people.

Not many of them involve murdering an entire planeload of civilians.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by jjav on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @12:38AM (#34514818)
> Not many of them involve murdering an entire planeload of civilians.

You of course don't know that, not having access to compartmentalized top secret material.

If you did, you couldn't post here (or anywhere) about it.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by woodruffw on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:26AM (#34515064)
You can be reasonably confident that the US does not regularly disappear entire airplanes filled with foreign nationals. As evidenced by MH 370, it's something that everybody notices.

The US has vast intelligence and military resources, but resources can't create operational miracles. Disappearing a civilian airplane and keeping it disappeared would be such a miracle.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by mrandish on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @06:51PM (#34512349)
That scenario seems wildly improbable. First, the existence of the large U.S. airbase at Diego Garcia isn't remotely secret. As for an accidental shoot-down of an airliner before any visual identification or confirmation, I suppose it could happen but it goes against every policy and procedure the U.S. is known to follow. If an unidentified aircraft approached an airbase, they would scramble an intercept for visual identification - especially in peace-time - in the middle of the Indian Ocean far from any active conflict zone.

In the insanely improbable event that the intercept accidentally shot down the unidentified aircraft before realizing it was a civilian airliner, then it would have been pilot error for not following rules of engagement or, possibly, a flight controller or flight commander error. There's zero reason for the U.S. government to turn an individual mistake into a huge incident by trying to cover it up. Also, there are many examples of the U.S. military making such mistakes and NOT trying to cover it up.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by outworlder on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @07:28PM (#34512652)
> Also, there are many examples of the U.S. military making such mistakes and NOT trying to cover it up.

Including shooting down an airliner. No coverup.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:26PM (#34513620)
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by jtc331 on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @07:24AM (#34517429)
Eh, they did lie about it repeatedly (as to why and how bits like location and aircraft trajectory). But they did acknowledge it happened I guess is your point.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ianburrell on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @10:43PM (#34514136)
Also, there is nothing on Diego Garcia that could shoot down an airliner. There is Air Force base but it is all transports today with bombers in the past. There are no fighters based there and same was true in 2014. I couldn’t find any evidence of SAMs. The Air Force doesn’t believe in air defenses for bases outside of active war zones.
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by hammock on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @12:08PM (#34520950)
We had two carrier groups in the west pacific
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by ianburrell on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @12:49PM (#34521591)
Diego Garcia is in Indian Ocean, 2200 mi from Malaysia. The radar shows that MH370 went into the Indian Ocean not Pacific. If carrier was in the South China Sea, it would be pretty obvious that it was there and involved.

Carrier group is even less likely to shoot down airliner. In middle of ocean or crowded area like South China Sea, carrier group probably doesn't have its defenses on alert. It has fighters that can intercept and visually identify aircraft. In the middle of ocean, there is plenty of time to react. There isn't the hair trigger in middle of war zone that led to Iran Air Flight 655.

Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by hammock on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:26PM (#34522167)
How far is the Indian Ocean from the west pacific?
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by snapetom on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @09:20PM (#34513570)
What was the plane doing near Diego Garcia in the first place?
Re:Seven years on, what do we know about the disappearance o... by kodah on Wednesday January 25, 2023 @01:29AM (#34515087)
There would've been overwhelming chatter about a plane entering controlled airspace and not replying. The sheer size of cleanup needed would've required one of the MEUs to reroute and you'd have to silence thousands of Marines and Sailors from talking about it.