Surely it's not middle school when people try to project wealth the most.. kids care more about who has an iPhone than adults but adults project wealth _a lot_ more than kids overall: fancy cars, homes, holidays etc. More expensive things are also nicer than their cheaper counterparts but I think most people would be lying if they don't say having access to them also gives them some status boost, if only internally. Can't turn off the monkey in the head easily.
And sms group chats? I only know about sms group chats from US posters.
You can just assume everyone has Whatsapp here, and just message them over that.
Yea but that's a problem too.
SMS by contrast is an open standard.
Exactly. If your complaint is about being locked in but the platform you use is the one everyone has to use because of network effect or otherwise you yourself are locked in with that platform.
And SMS is irrelevant.
Also, you need like.. a carrier plan to access, wouldn’t really call that open. Any network based messenger can work over my home or even McDonald’s wifi, without any third-parties
The lock-in is obvious: if you're part of Apple-oriented chat groups you can't switch to Android without losing access to those groups, degrading the experience for everyone, or convincing each one of those groups to make the switch to a multi-platform alternative. Claiming not to see this is disingenuous.
I'm not sure, but I don't think you can actually uninstall the default SMS from Android phones either without having another app installed at a minimum and then I bet similar to Messages if you were to somehow uninstall that app then the default app would appear since it's probably part of the core operating system (similar to other basic functionality like settings or a phone app to receive calls).
I don't know what you mean by you cannot substitute Messages with another app. If I didn't want to use Messages I would just disable all settings and remove it from the home screen and use whatever I wanted instead just fine.
You are correct that you cannot install Messages on non-Apple hardware. Not all software is open source or available for all platforms. For example I cannot install Playstation software on my Xbox, nor can I buy a Nest Thermostat and install a competitor's software on it (without hacking both of course). There are games that are made that aren't created with support for macOS. Etc.
> if you're part of Apple-oriented chat groups you can't switch to Android without losing access to those groups
What is an Apple-oriented chat group?
No. Why would it?
> I don't know what you mean by you cannot substitute Messages with another app.
On Android, if you don't like the SMS app you can replace it with another app that has all the same functionality (and more). Does Apple let you do that?
> What is an Apple-oriented chat group?
Please engage with the discussion. One that uses Apple's proprietary SMS extensions, obviously.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/24/dma-political-agreement/
As a user I cannot see any downsides.
I wish Signal would be more popular, but it's just not. I can't really ask new people I meet to communicate over Signal because it's a burden to get others to install some new application.
In a U.S. court of law Apple has stood up to authority and pointed out they can't provide the messages requested as they're locked even to Apple. Facebook on the other hand has acquiesced to U.S. law enforcement. That tells me that even if Facebook has secured end-to-end messaging, which I don't think they've ever claimed, they have backdoors.
Given that I don't see why more of us Americans aren't using WhatsApp! :)
Completely false. I have multiple group chats in Messenger. The people who “don’t trust Zuckerberg” enough to not use his messaging products are a tiny minority of people in the US.
Nonetheless, it is a self-made problem in the US, which wouldn’t even make sense in the EU because we don’t have such a high percentage of apple devices.
This is a common excuse I hear in college to not use FB messenger or Whatsapp. But those same people usually have no issues using Instagram DMs. For most people, it's just a cover story to mask the real reason: Facebook messenger and whatsapp are uncool in the US
In the USA we had opposite plans during this time. Unlimited talk/text, but strict data caps.
Some of Europe has very effective telecom infrastructure, but that's far from universal.
Usually, if you don't have data for signal (as opposed to run out of data in your plan) reasons, then you don't have signal at all, even for SMS, either...
At least where I live, 4G got deployed on the low bands freed up by the digital TV switchover and hence has the best reception in remote areas.
Trusting your private conversations to ~Facebook~ Meta is also a signal.
Are the kids wrong?
When I look at my app’s stats, Android users are worse in every way.
More expensive to develop for, pay less or none at all, and their halo effect is sometimes negative: they might word-of-mouth my app to more Android users instead of more iOS users.
Maybe because there is always a free alternative that is better than yours.
Whereas iOS users only has the App Store, and if they don’t pay they don’t get app.
As iOS developer i disagree, You can develop android app on any platform that support JDK you pay a one-time registration fee of €25, Google Play is faster at approving apps (anecdotal evidence from working on team that support both iOS and Android)
iOS apps have to be compiled on recent Mac with latest version of macOS, you pay a yearly fee of €100 and AppStore review process is more in-dept especially for new apps
> pay less or none at all
Maybe just make the app paid only?
1. In the dating scene, I have heard women remark that it was a red flag (Android users are stereotypically poor... despite a large number of techies using Android)
2. A manager at my old company was advised to get an iphone for communication with VCs. One of our old leaders had heard commentary from a VC at one point about the text message colors.
You're on HN. Half of us use Android.
Seems like premature analysis which would be better and easier done after more conversation rather than prejudging half the population.
If she does not need to deal with people who might have a burner number, she would be stupid to deal with people who might have a burner number
Lets do some speculation to firm up the idea. 55% of US users have an android, 45 an iphone and our overall probability of talking to someone who already has a girlfriend is on the overall pretty high say 50% with half of those having a second phone and 80% of those being cheap androids.
The overall percentages of users using each platform is actual the rest is speculation. I have actually probably WAY overestimated the numbers to prove that the strongest argument is basically still bad.
Take 1000 suitors. 500 are cheating bastards. Your chance are 50/50. You apply your first pass green bubble filter and filter out 550 including many good matches.
Lets look at how this effects the cheater pop. We start with 500. 250 aren't using a burner phone and 113 passed the green bubble test another 50 passed because their burner is an iphone.
Your first pass filter only reduced the cheating bastard percentage from 50% to 36%.
Now if we reduce the cheating bastard percentage to a hopefully more realistic 25% we are talking about it reducing the percentage from 25->18.
The worst thing about this algorithm is that it makes it impossible to bubble up especially good choices who nonetheless fail the green bubble test. It's also one that potential bad choices can trivially game by buying a 4 year old iphone on facebook for $90. It's the worst of all possible worlds.
> For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
H. L. Mencken
Talk to people like human beings and you should be able to more reliably pick out the cheating bastards.
> Talk to people like human beings and you should be able to more reliably pick out the cheating bastards.
She does not need to talk to people who put themselves into a pile of "might have a burner number" because her deck would be more than full without those.
Imagine explaining to investors in your VC - "You know that XYZ company that just IPO'd for several billion dollars? Yeah I passed on their series A because the founder didn't have an iPhone despite the business itself being really solid". If I was an investor in that VC I'd sue the partners into the ground over such trivial bullshit.
Some topics can be deal breakers, you don't have to marry the first VC you talk to, or court them all.
Toxic femininity?
Oh wait we are banned from using this term :)
I obviously used the term in a sarcastic manner, to show how stupid it is, together with its sister term
Do you think the bubbles cause bullying?
I'd imagine the bubbles are just an excuse, which would immediately be replaced with something else in their absence.
If the Apple's own messages were the same color as SMS or other avenues and Apple made a best faith effort to make sure messages worked, then there would be one less avenue of bullying.
Do you think the bubbles cause bullying?
Yep. Its status and a lot of bullying comes from the world reaffirming your status over others.
I'd imagine the bubbles are just an excuse, which would immediately be replaced with something else in their absence.
Maybe, but it wouldn't be Apple's fault.
I haven't lived in a country where text bubbles used to be a thing, but I noticed this. People, even people who are smart and kind in other aspects, still cling to the easiest social cues. Doesn't matter if you wear a Margiela t-shirt or what you drive; your tinder date or a person who you just met in a bar will look at your phone and take notice. Personally, I was quite happy with Samsung flagship phones, and then not less happy with pretty cheap Xiaomi ones — they literally do anything I want in a phone. But after getting frustrated with how people read social cues, I moved back to iPhones and simply got myself the most expensive one, just for the sake of being easier to read for other people.
Obviously, it would be nice to be so laidback and independent as to not care what other people care about your wealth, but sadly, I'm not on that level yet.
It's kinda funny but I've had even Apple Watch owners thinking that I wear an Apple Watch even though it's an Amazfit GTS 2 mini. It's weird, it hardly looks like one. The one button is much smaller than the Apple's crown and it's smack bang in the middle. It's also a much smaller watch.
I hope you're kidding.
/s, ... but I start thinking that's why Galaxy Flip sold well than I expected.
This doesn’t match my experience. Almost everyone I work with has an iPhone.
Anyway, having a good income isn’t the whole story. It’s probably also about willingness to conform to subtle, arbitrary social norms. Plenty of women are more attracted to a guy who dresses well, despite the fact that plenty of techies wear free hoodies. I think that’s a better analogy.
Like you said, it’s about arbitrary norms, but we make assumptions about others all the time based on which norms we follow. An analogy from a different angle is that texting your Tinder match from an Android phone is a bit like applying for a tech job with a @hotmail.com email address.
[0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin...
This doesn't seem very different from a Director of Sales telling the salespeople to upgrade their wardrobe.
Image is important in business. Some people may be uncomfortable with that, but it's a fact. Companies, and people, spend trillions of dollars a year to project an image.
It just happens that blue text bubbles are more in style than green text bubbles.
But Google fell into the same trap that all large companies do: If you can't innovate, litigate.
I use an iPhone. Not for any philosophical reason. I tried switching to android 3 times over the years since the first iPhone came out. Same plan, same provider, grandfathered in, same house, same spot. Each android phone did not get the same level of cell service in my house as the iPhone. I have side gigs I do contracting for, I have had cases of missing calls where the androids have literally cost me $100's of dollars, phone didn't ring... just a voicemail notification showing up hours later.
After the 3rd attempt, last being a nexus 5, I gave up. I'm sorry but I draw a line when a device messes with my income regardless of my ideological stance on open source and not having a windows device or even an Apple laptop in the house for the last 13 years.
With that said the Pixel 7 Pro looks nice, and I would love to give it a try but I'll only do that if I have it on a separate dedicated line to try out besides my main one that have had for 20 years. Not sure it's worth the effort at this point.
coincidentally i think the nexus 5 was also my 3rd and final android. i actually really liked that phone. then i took an international flight and after landing it was suddenly bricked. wouldn’t turn on at all. so strange.
This is a red flag against the women in question, not the Android user. That attitude/behaviour is a great indicator of a gold digger. You'd be dodging a bullet by avoiding these women.
The only other people that share that attitude are teenagers. So if you go along with this horseshit and buy an iPhone just to feel more comfortable dating, you're courting women with the maturity and intelligence of the average teenager.
this is indicative of someone with poor judgement AT MOST.
Also, I think that poverty is actually more correlated to stupidity and rudeness. I've read that stress can literally make your brain shrink from the excess of cortisol. Rich people are generally labeled with undesirable properties, which (at least in my case) often comes from a personal bias - it feels unfair to watch someone else have everything I want, so at least they're a bad person and I'm not, so I got that going for me, which is nice.
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To sidetrack a little bit:
> That's a very stupid criteria.
This is completely redundant - your point would be perfectly conveyed without this sentence. HN guidelines phrase it this way:
When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."I have 3 daughters and 1 son.
In Western Europe, South America and Asia it's mostly just some specific app (WhatsApp for example, or Signal, or WeChat or LINE) and as a fallback SMS. And if SMS turns from one colour bubble to another colour it doesn't really do anything for users on either end. This deep integration with colours and status symbols does remain in specific areas like middle school where it is still seen as important to try to project wealth.