News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kylehotchkiss on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:10PM (#33125641)
Financial Security/responsibility is getting wayyy too complex for the layperson:

* Find a decent bank with 2FA. None of the big banks are decent, they have minimum balances, piles of fees. Credit unions are good, but you want one that isn't too local, which can limit you to credit unions specific to military/veterans/families

* Have multiple checking accounts. Only one of these checking accounts has a debit card attached, or exposed account number anywhere. Never ever hold a balance in this account. Keep the balance in the other account.

* Never use that debit card for anything but the ATM and bank teller authentication. In fact, don't even carry it with you, in case you lose your wallet or somebody tries to take it. Not every bank makes it easy to turn debit card off.

* Only use ACH for rent and loan payments. Never hold a balance in the account used for this. Many rent companies and loan providers are not properly securing that number. Your account number can't easily be changed.

* Keep the bank you use a secret from everybody including friends and family. Only the few payees and your payroll provider need to know.

* For sending money to friends if everybody has iPhones, Apple's Cash functionality is good enough.

* Get a respectable credit card with zero fraud liability. Use it for everything. Have a backup at home. Now your bank is insulated from the outside world. If somebody tries to take your wallet, just give it to them. It's easier to get a card reissued and transactions overturned in that scenario than it is to get drivers licence replaced.

* Don't move outside the country or do a USPS address change to a PO Box. Banks have been known to just shut people's accounts down and mail the balance as a check in these scenarios. Patriot act something something.

This is banking in USA. It was designed for a trust-based society 70 years ago that's still mostly trustful but needs to consider the culture has changed a bit. If the Fed would require member banks implement secure 2FA and the option to disable external ACH from accounts upon request, we wouldn't need to do all this.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by commandlinefan on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:33PM (#33125893)
> Never ever hold a balance in this account

Impossible to _never_ hold a balance, since every employer wants to do direct deposit... your only hope is that you can get your money out of there before some scammer gets it. The chances of that happening are low, but not zero.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by em-bee on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:51PM (#33126115)
i have one bank account to receive my salary, one (or more) to make regular payments and one for day to day expenses. the latter has just enough balance to cover my average spending and gets refilled as needed.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by sidewndr46 on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:49PM (#33126702)
Different account for direct deposit from the account used for paying bills. Problem solved.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by davchana on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:44PM (#33129073)
One account for incoming money. Only your employer knows about it.

One account for holding money. Nobody knows it except you.

One account for all money outgoing. Only payees knoq about it.

You transfer all incoming from above first account to second asap.

You transfer money from second to third only on per need basis.

Capital One, Discover offers free multiple checking accounts.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by throw7 on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:36PM (#33125928)
> if everybody has iPhones, Apple's Cash functionality is good

and google pay? this may surprise you but in my immediate family only 1 (out of 6) has an iphone. we basically use zelle to transfer cash around. I personally will not use paypal or venmo, but I do use google pay.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by judge2020 on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:39PM (#33125958)
I also imagine FedNow might become apart of your workflow, depending on just how well it works (Releases May to July 2023) https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/fednow_about.h....
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by recursive on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:39PM (#33125957)
What's the issue with paypal and venmo?
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by judge2020 on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:41PM (#33125982)
Probably due to the paypal horror stories; note that Paypal acquired Venmo in their Braintree acquisition: https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/19/venmo-now-lets-you-find-an...
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by heliodor on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:43PM (#33126008)
Venmo doesn't offer 2fa with an authenticator app. Only text message 2fa. Leaves you open to sim swap attacks, which are common and the carriers are doing nothing to prevent.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by pb7 on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:48PM (#33126068)
PayPal has a long shiny history of screwing people over and Venmo is now not only owned by PayPal but the app is hot garbage and gets worse with every update (probably due to the aforementioned ownership).
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by Maursault on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:26PM (#33127607)
I use PayPal, not as heavily as I have in the past, but I have been scammed by about a dozen sellers, and in all cases, PayPal refunded my money. I've never heard of PayPal screwing over customers, only that it being owned by eBay is annoying because eBay gets two sets of fees on payments for sellers.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by pb7 on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:04PM (#33128856)
I don't care enough to find the biggest stories over the last 15+ years but here are two articles from January 2022 referencing a class action lawsuit over freezing of funds without explanation:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/01/paypal-stole-use...

https://www.engadget.com/paypal-lawsuit-freezing-customer-ac...

And to be clear, this is not an isolated event.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by Ekaros on Saturday October 08, 2022 @04:47AM (#33130818)
Paypal is entirely reasonable as buyer. But I would never ever use it to receive money. Or hold balance there.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by boring_twenties on Friday October 07, 2022 @10:06PM (#33129192)
PayPal is known for keeping your money at length or indefinitely with no explanation or recourse.

Venmo is a mindbogglingly stupid thing that requires you to take active steps just to keep it from broadcasting your financial activity to the world, and last I checked there was no way to keep your "friend list" from being public at all.

On top of that there was a period where they disabled transfer functionality on their website altogether and the only way you could send money was through their proprietary mobile app. Seems they eventually reversed course on this, but I have no idea how long it took.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by Maursault on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:22PM (#33127567)
Not sure what your issue is with PayPal (philosophical objection to it seems to be popular), but at least PayPal will refund your money if you are scammed. Zelle will not and never has, and I suspect that is why banks won't cover Zelle scams. I personally consider Zelle itself a scam, and it boggles the mind why so many banks have partnerships with it. Automatic Zelle accounts when opening a bank account? Oh my God that is an astoundingly bad idea.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by davchana on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:49PM (#33129094)
Zell3 itself does not store any money. It's just an interface, a glue between accounts by supporting banks.

Instead of asking the user their bank account number, routing number; you simply ask their zelle email or phone number (either of which can be with any bank, no info leaked). You send money.

Zelle ask for phone or email of other party, then it shows their registered name in Bold. If one still confirms to send, its on them.

Zelle options like check options, imagine if people said Oh my God auto check honor system??

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by doubled112 on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:25PM (#33125794)
Banking in Canada is rough too.

TD Canada Trust didn't let me use more than 8 alphanumeric characters in my password until about 2015. The only let you use call or SMS for 2FA to this day.

They are charging $16.95/mo for a chequing account right now.

This is pretty standard across the big banks.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by auxym on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:30PM (#33125866)
I believe Scotia/Tangerine are still 6-digits only for passwords. Really. And I have yet to see any Canadian financial institution (whether bank, brokerage, credit union, etc) that supports anything else than SMS for 2FA.

The situation is quite rough indeed.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by angst_ridden on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:45PM (#33126043)
RBC allows use of their mobile app as 2FA. I don't believe it uses SMS under the hood.

I'm not arguing it's necessarily more secure. I haven't audited it or looked into how it works.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by spaetzleesser on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:58PM (#33126200)
Is there any reason why they limit the length of passwords or don’t allow certain characters? It makes no sense to me.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by WorldMaker on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:38PM (#33126612)
As fun general rules of thumb:

Hard 8 character limits are often a side-effect of old COBOL "databases" in the backend somewhere.

Hard 16 character limits are sometimes a side-effect of old versions of Active Directory in the backend somewhere or new versions of Active Directory in certain backward compatibility operation modes/certain group policies.

Hard character limits in general are often a sign that someone is storing the plaintext somewhere they shouldn't be.

(Soft character limits today are mostly to avoid possible hash function DDoS.)

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by EvanAnderson on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:54PM (#33126746)
The 14 character password limit in some versions of Windows is a side effect of using LM and NTLM (original "flavor", not NTLMv2) hashes used in Windows NT domains and maintaining compatibility therewith. It's not related to Active Directory, per se.

Nobody should be using LM or NTLM hashes anymore today, for all that that means... >sigh<

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by freeone3000 on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:13PM (#33126355)
It's so you can enter your password over a touch-tone phone.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by wlonkly on Saturday October 08, 2022 @06:40PM (#33136722)
Shared credentials with phone or ATM banking.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by wlonkly on Saturday October 08, 2022 @06:39PM (#33136719)
TD has TOTP-based 2FA now, but you have to use their "TD Authenticator" app and not your preferred TOTP app.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by cowtools on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:17PM (#33125711)
Beyond 2FA, some type of chaumian cash like https://taler.net/en/ might help too.

But the problem is really downgrade attacks. There are multiple payment systems (bank wire, check, credit card ) and if there is one insecure way to make payments, then the whole system is broken.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by hervature on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:21PM (#33125744)
> Find a decent bank with 2FA. None of the big banks are decent, they have minimum balances, piles of fees.

Can you clarify this. Are big banks not secure enough or are they not decent because of the minimum balance and "piles of fees"? I would rather pay something for security.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by bittercynic on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:18PM (#33125715)
>...you want one that isn't too local...

What's the problem with local credit unions?

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by adabyron on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:25PM (#33125793)
One advantage to smaller banks is the personal relationship when you need them. It's a trade-off for features. I've found significant value in having a small local bank where it's a bit harder to do anything digitally. They also may catch strange transactions. During Covid, having a relationship with a bank also meant it was easier to get assistance when other banks were putting you on hold or not responding.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kylehotchkiss on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:20PM (#33125738)
Limited support hours, lack of access when out of town, having to depend on ATM networks which can change (I guess these also apply to local banks too and not just credit unions)
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by lukeschlather on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:59PM (#33126209)
What do you mean by "ATM networks which can change?" I've never found it difficult to find a credit union that participates in shared branching with a public ATM (this basically means free ATM withdrawals in most cities in the US.)
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by zippergz on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:24PM (#33126487)
I don't know what parent meant, but my credit union a while back decided they no longer wanted to participate in whatever shared branch network they used to be part of, so the branch availability near me went to effectively zero.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by bombcar on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:21PM (#33127003)
The US has five or six different ATM networks, and many banks are part of more than one of them, but a small credit union may be only part of one, and they may change which one that is.

Depending on how they have it setup, it may mean that the ATM near you suddenly no longer works for you for free and you have to switch up with another one.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by a_t48 on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:21PM (#33125743)
I had a local credit union - dropped them after it took multiple weeks to ship out a replacement debit card
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by bombcar on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:24PM (#33125789)
Mine is smallish and printed me a debit card right there in the branch; I'd never seen that before.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by lowercased on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:13PM (#33126354)
Years ago, a largish bank (boa) had given me a pre-printed visa debit card for a new account I'd opened. They had a small stack of them, ready to activate against new accounts. Better than "we'll mail it to you in a week".
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by bombcar on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:27PM (#33126507)
Yeah, I was surprised on this one because it was a machine that just printed the front on a blank card - the name wasn't embossed, but otherwise it was a normal card.

Still using it, it's how they do cards now; they never sent an "embossed" one.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by a_t48 on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:06PM (#33126858)
My credit union was in Seattle, I was living in SF. For most services I could go to an affiliated CU, for this I could not.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by UncleMeat on Saturday October 08, 2022 @01:04PM (#33134004)
Right. The point is that credit unions come in a variety of different qualities. Some are good. Some are crap. "Always use a local credit union instead of a bank" is not always good advice.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by criddell on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:27PM (#33125814)
They often won't process foreign transaction and either can't or won't sell you foreign currency (like Canadian dollars if you are planning a trip to Winnipeg).
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by bombcar on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:21PM (#33125740)
Biggest issue is accessing your account if you move; I've never really had any other issue come up.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by smeej on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:44PM (#33126015)
Even a tiny local credit union is great if they're part of the co-op.

The vast majority of credit unions in the U.S. are, and you can use any co-op branch or ATMs just like your home credit union's branches or ATMs.

It's brilliant, and in my experience, so much more accessible than the giant banks who are often regionally concentrated.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by resfirestar on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:01PM (#33128008)
There are limitations, it's not always just like your home credit union. One of the reasons one might go to a bank branch when we have ATMs and online banking is to get a cashier's check, which can't be done through co-op. My online credit union can FedEx them overnight so it's not too bad, but I switched away from a local credit union when I moved because they weren't able to do services like that except at a branch.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by smeej on Friday October 07, 2022 @11:00PM (#33129423)
My mom got a cashier's check through the co-op in March to buy her house. She's in New Hampshire and her credit union is in Oklahoma.

I don't know why it didn't work for you, but it was no trouble for her.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by lukeschlather on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:01PM (#33126232)
In my experience accessing my account after moving has been a huge issue with conventional banks; I've never had a problem with my credit union accounts.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by bombcar on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:29PM (#33126524)
Yeah, I should have been clear - accessing it at a local branch. Not that many people need to do that anymore; in fact it's so easy to do everything online you may forget to update addresses, etc. And with no paper statements, you might not even notice until one day your bank decides it needs to mail you something important.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by lukeschlather on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:48PM (#33127860)
No, I can access my remote credit union account through most credit unions through shared branching. It's more convenient than banks which have less cooperation.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by spaetzleesser on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:54PM (#33126134)
It can be a problem when you are out of town and need banking services. My credit union is in CA but after my move to New Mexico I had to open an account at Chase just to get a special signature notarizing that only banks can do.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by bombcar on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:22PM (#33127011)
The Medallion Signature™ - I had to abuse the fact I had a Chase credit card to get one of those once for Vanguard.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by spaetzleesser on Friday October 07, 2022 @08:12PM (#33128532)
I had to open an account and wait for two months for my Medallion. Having a credit card was not sufficient.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kwesthaus on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:47PM (#33126052)
Don't forget about preemptive security freezes at credit bureaus, which you have to do for each one individually. /r/personalfinance recommends 7 by default [0], but there are many more [1].

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/identity_theft...

[1]: https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb_consumer-...

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by nilespotter on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:18PM (#33126423)
Great info, I had a freeze on 6/7 of these. What are the ramifications of freezing LexisNexis?
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by yamtaddle on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:57PM (#33127368)
When I did it, all it meant was anyone offering a line of credit to me if I'm not present right in front of them is supposed to call me to verify I want it. It's not even really any inconvenience to have "frozen" credit.

Why the everloving fuck that's not the default, but something you have to request, I have no idea.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by agloeregrets on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:47PM (#33126053)
> Credit unions are good, but you want one that isn't too local, which can limit you to credit unions specific to military/veterans/families

Having seen a bit of the inside: Local credit unions are generally pure trash at security. Hell, a local one had an internal meltdown from the HR person looking up prior employee's personal account to harass them with a LIST OF THEIR PERSONAL PURCHASES. (WTAF)

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by spaetzleesser on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:51PM (#33126116)
The same happens in health care. The system is full of traps that a customer/patient can’t reasonably navigate.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by Arrath on Friday October 07, 2022 @03:52PM (#33126120)
> * Never use that debit card for anything but the ATM and bank teller authentication. In fact, don't even carry it with you, in case you lose your wallet or somebody tries to take it. Not every bank makes it easy to turn debit card off.

I take this one a step farther and don't even have a debit card, just an atm/cash card. It cannot be used to make purchases anywhere, only to get cash from an ATM. Any and all purchases I make are either cash, or with a credit card.

Some banks may look at you weird when you request such a card, or act like they don't do them (anymore), but my credit unions have accommodated me.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by tristor on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:10PM (#33126902)
> I take this one a step farther and don't even have a debit card, just an atm/cash card

I did this too, unfortunately I went through multiple banks as they rolled out debit cards for all accounts and stopped offering ATM cards, until now I unfortunately have a debit card. It seems this isn't really an option anymore.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by hey2022 on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:16PM (#33127521)
I keep my debit card locked. If I need to use it—which happens once or twice a year—I unlock it and then immediately lock back again.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by birdman3131 on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:04PM (#33126254)
Your bank account number is by design semi public knowledge. Every check you have ever written has it at the bottom. It was never meant to be private.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by ev1 on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:17PM (#33126417)
I have never received checks with any bank account I have opened in my life. Are they even offered anymore?
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by zippergz on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:22PM (#33126469)
You have to order them. They don't just give them to you.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by davchana on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:45PM (#33129080)
Discover gives free standard checks, as many as you want.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by lotsofpulp on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:29PM (#33126525)
Yes, they are used all the time in the US.

The numbers on the bottom are the routing number and account number of the payer. Anyone can make and sell them, and anyone can buy them.

https://www.costcochecks.com/home

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by Arrath on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:32PM (#33126550)
Absolutely. I currently rent from an elderly couple and the simplest method of paying rent is the classic check.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by brewdad on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:30PM (#33126533)
You have to pay for them but yes you can still get checks. My order of 80 checks should last me the rest of my life.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kylehotchkiss on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:54PM (#33126743)
The fewer entities that have it, the better. Banks probably aren’t giving it out freely. Any ACH charge attempted against it will deduct balance, and fraud liability repayments (if the bank agrees to help) will take as long as the bank takes to recover funds
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by NovemberWhiskey on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:07PM (#33126863)
>fraud liability repayments (if the bank agrees to help) will take as long as the bank takes to recover funds

What's your source on that? As far as I know, Regulation E generally requires banks to make good on errors in electronic fund transfers (including ACH transfers for which the customer is not liable) within 10 days of being notified. That can be in the form of a provisional credit while an investigation is ongoing, though.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kevin_thibedeau on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:10PM (#33127476)
That's what makes this particularly galling since Zelle is just a frontend to ACH.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kylehotchkiss on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:48PM (#33128382)
Is regulation E new (in the past decade)? I had a fraud related issue on Simple.com about 10 years back where Kroger decided to keep erratically billing my debit card up until it hit $1000 (I went in and spent probably $20 and their payments system seemed to just go haywire) and I asked their support for help. It took a month to get money back. That was my final straw with debit cards.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by NovemberWhiskey on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:53PM (#33128413)
No; it's originally from the late 70s - I don't know exactly when the various provisions relating to error handling got introduced, to be honest; it's possible it was somewhat different back then.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by r00fus on Friday October 07, 2022 @07:18PM (#33128146)
Many banks/CUs have a policy where the printed account number is only for checks and doesn't correlate to the internal account number.

It's not a complete guard, but it does prevent ACH attacks.

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by itake on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:05PM (#33126266)
> * Never use that debit card for anything but the ATM and bank teller authentication. In fact, don't even carry it with you, in case you lose your wallet or somebody tries to take it. Not every bank makes it easy to turn debit card off.

Some businesses only accept debit cards (like WinCo [0]). :-/ I guess you can just not do business with them.

> * For sending money to friends if everybody has iPhones, Apple's Cash functionality is good enough.

I wish... but how do you transfer money internationally? I don't think Apple Cash is adopted abroad yet.

[0] - https://www.wincofoods.com/customer-service/faqs/

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by zippergz on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:21PM (#33126455)
Yes, I specifically do not do business at stores and gas stations that only take debit cards.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by nilespotter on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:19PM (#33126429)
They take cash.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kylehotchkiss on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:21PM (#33127005)
> I wish... but how do you transfer money internationally?

Wise.com. I lived abroad for a bit and relied entirely on Wise (well, they were called transferwise then). Could send money abroad faster than I could send funds to anybody in USA.

Of course, any international financial service is very KYC heavy and can suspend access to you/lock your funds at any time so always have a backup plan ready as wire transfers are really scary (foreign banks don't want to release funds? no recourse for you!)

Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by kome on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:41PM (#33126633)
why banking in Europe is much much better?
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by diordiderot on Friday October 07, 2022 @05:36PM (#33127154)
Because we don't have freedom like America /s
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by snotrockets on Friday October 07, 2022 @06:40PM (#33127745)
ACH is undoubtedly covered under regulation E. $50 (waived by many banks) and some time is the most that can be taken from you.
Re:Big U.S. Banks Are Stiffing Account Takeover Victims by davchana on Friday October 07, 2022 @09:41PM (#33129055)
Discover & Capital One offers free online only no fee checking account.

To add, use special emails for zelle, not your regular phone number or regular email.