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Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:32PM (#31940104)
My favourite part about wires is that there's never interference or poor connectivity. Aux headphones, ethernet cables, wired mouse and keyboard - all so much more painless.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by torstenvl on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:52AM (#31942519)
I used to be able to tell I was about to get a GSM text message by the way my (wired) computer speakers would make a distinct quiet staccato crackle sound.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by neurostimulant on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:59AM (#31943278)
I recently started playing GTA 4 and it has this noise when you're driving in a car with radio on and about to get an sms or call in the game. Made me feel nostalgic.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by blowski on Friday July 01, 2022 @05:40AM (#31944232)
There was even a song that featured it. https://youtu.be/K20BS-1BPjk
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by teekert on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:16AM (#31946709)
Haha, came here to post that song... Anyways, I still hear this every now and then (the sound, not the song) with my Ford C-max 2006 sound system and iPhone 12 mini, but nowhere near as often as back in the 90's and 00's. Back then I also had a separate vibrating module I'd put in my cell phone pocket (many pockets available at that time, Nokia 3210 did not vibrate), it would always vibrate before any ringtone (self programmed AirWulf) would start (of course).
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by wodenokoto on Friday July 01, 2022 @03:29AM (#31943466)
Why did that stop happening? I remember back in the early 2000s you might even come across a live concert where an incoming text message got caught in the PA and broadcast to the entire audience.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by rkangel on Friday July 01, 2022 @05:06AM (#31944014)
Because we moved from GSM and its original set of frequencies to 3G and (usually) a new set of frequency bands. The noise was caused by a beat frequency between the ring channel and the call/data channel. Changing either the coding scheme (so you don't get anything like a tone as the beat) or the channel separation (so the beat isn't in audio range) causes it to go away.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ajsnigrutin on Friday July 01, 2022 @06:47AM (#31944631)
Nah, the frequencies are stil around there, they're all too high to hear, but GSM used TDM - time division multiplex.

To simplify, up to 7 users (+1 timeslot for signalling) share the same channel/frequency, but each of them is allowed to transmit only 1/8 of the time (even less, due to guard intervals). This basically means, that your phone transmitted for a bit over 0.5 milliseconds (577us), then waited quietly for 7 more intervals like that for other devices to transmit, then your phone transmitted again, and the affected speakers "buzzed" because of these 577ms bursts of power every 4.616 milliseconds (this causes a buzz in the frequency range we can actually hear).

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by davnicwil on Friday July 01, 2022 @03:35AM (#31943503)
Wow. I've just for the first time ever realised that you might be able to derive the content of the SMS from the specific pattern of interference you would hear on speakers. Like, it seems plausible that is the case. Is that what you mean here by broadcast - or just the fact there was a message was broadcast?
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by chedabob on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:15AM (#31943724)
I thought communication between the tower and the device was encrypted?

That's not to say it's not using some archaic weak encryption scheme left in for backwards compatability though.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by pas on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:33AM (#31943837)
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ajsnigrutin on Friday July 01, 2022 @06:51AM (#31944647)
Not really, speakers just reacted to the bursts of power, because the transmission frequency is way too high for us to hear.

GSM uses time division multiplex, which means it shares the 8-timeslot channel with 6 more devices (7 devices + 1 signalling), meaning your phone transmits for 577us, then waits quietly for all the 7 timeslots that other devices use (so, for 4.039 milliseconds - 7x577us), and again transmits for 577us, and again waits. Bursts of power every ~4.6milliseconds make a noise that we can actually hear at a bit over 200Hz.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by BluSyn on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:18AM (#31943746)
Good question. Best guess: Better EMI shielding on newer products / different cell frequencies on newer phones. Perhaps combination of both?
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by washadjeffmad on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:13AM (#31945334)
It still happens if you lay your phone directly on audio cables with cell data on. You can also see interference happening on high datarate cables or if placed over certain components in a laptop.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by saiya-jin on Friday July 01, 2022 @03:44AM (#31943555)
It was even better - I knew based on the 'melody' of speakers if I am receiving SMS or a call (and ie started walking to the desk to pick it up)
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by rkangel on Friday July 01, 2022 @05:04AM (#31944000)
That's the beat frequency between the ring channel and the call channel. The channel widths and separation were such that the beat frequency was order 1KHz and therefore audible.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by philsnow on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:18PM (#31950533)
Back in ~2001 I saw cute little devices you put in your car and they would light up / blink / dance when it detected the same thing.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by grishka on Saturday July 02, 2022 @05:28PM (#31962614)
They also came in the form of thingies you tied to the lanyard hole on your phone. I had one with my first phone in the mid-00s.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by feet on Friday July 01, 2022 @07:14AM (#31944805)
Yea this was when I started leaving my phone on silent and throwing on the desk near the speaker

Good ol moto razr

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by noirbot on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:35PM (#31940139)
I dunno, if you haven't run into audio or video interference on a wired device, you're lucky or have quality cables. I've definitely picked up radio stations on headphones or had nearby electrical currents induce an annoying buzz in a microphone or distort a video signal.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by eropple on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:04AM (#31942220)
A bad ground in a USB power brick made Spanish talk radio leak into my video mixer's audio interface. Through the chassis, the BlackMagic SDI card, the SDI card, and the BlackMagic HDMI->SDI converter being powered by the cursed USB brick.

That was a bad time.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by jakear on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:45PM (#31940220)
> I've definitely picked up radio stations on headphones

Not exactly the same, but makes me reminisce the days of the iPod nano. It offered FM radio using the headphone cables as an antenna. I haven’t seen that supported anywhere since, which is a shame because I’d really like to get local stations on my phone.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by toast0 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:01PM (#31940364)
FM radio using headphones/headset as antenna is a common feature in phones. I've seen it on feature phones in 200x, and on some Androids as well. Only you can decide if it's important enough to outweigh other must have features though. There are also lots of apps to stream local radio if you have a consistent data connection (doesn't need to be fast, though)
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SoftTalker on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:39PM (#31942057)
The FM receiver is (or is claimed to be) better for battery life than using data to listen to local radio.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by elpescado on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:14AM (#31943719)
...and certainly better for your data plan.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by p_l on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:55AM (#31943945)
IIRC, USA pushed for some time for inclusion of radio receiver as mandatory, while GP mentions the need to support DAB if selling to France, resulting in weird situation where it might be software "fuse" involved.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by tn1 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:44PM (#31940690)
As others have said it's very common. You can even filter phones on GSMArena by it, looks like there's 6000+ in their database, including recent releases: https://m.gsmarena.com/results.php3?chkFMradio=selected
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by Findecanor on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:49AM (#31943919)
Here in the EU, it tends to be disabled in software even if the hardware has it.

I blame the French. They introduced a law that forbids radio receivers that don't support DAB radio, as a way to make the newer DAB format take off. But globally, DAB never did so phone hardware don't have it. In the EU, distribution chains often cross borders and it would be too bothersome to have models with special firmware just for France — so instead, nobody gets FM-radio.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by chmodux on Friday July 01, 2022 @06:05AM (#31944391)
My Xiamoi Redmi Note 8 Pro that I bought from Orange (french telephone provider) here in France in 2020 definitely is currently receiving FM Radio (uses the headphones for reception) and it is even documented on their site https://assistance.orange.fr/mobile-tablette/tous-les-mobile...
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by Glawen on Friday July 01, 2022 @09:41AM (#31946230)
It's a very recent law introduced because until recently, virtually no radio supported DAB.

I bought last year a DAB compatible radio for my car, only to realise that it is worse than FM :)

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by roywiggins on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:37PM (#31940642)
I think some (most?) of the Moto G line still support FM radio this way.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MotoG/comments/u2dvvp/any_current_m...

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by csdvrx on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:58PM (#31940332)
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by 2143 on Friday July 01, 2022 @06:04AM (#31944385)
> It offered FM radio using the headphone cables as an antenna.

That was common on phones in general. Headphones acted as antenna.

If you open the FM radio app without connecting wired headphones, it'll ask you to connect it.

This was common in Android phones as well.

My current Android phone does not have headphone jack. And I can't use FM radio (although there are services that play radio over the internet, but that isn't really the same...).

------

About phones which have the capability but which are disabled, I wonder if it's because of security implications.

Where I live, the allowed frequencies were from 87 MHz to 108 MHz or something. Consumer FM radios could only be tuned in this range.

That's because on frequencies outside this range, other transmissions — for example, police transmissions — might be taking place.

The aforementioned allowed range is different in different countries.

Also, in my country long long ago (like, ≈50 years ago) you needed to get the permission of the government (via a license or something) to get a radio. You couldn't just go to a store and buy one. That changed later, however.

Now that I think about it, it might have something to do with semi-secret transmissions happening on frequencies outside the allowed range.

A friend told me it's possible to take apart the radio and tune to non-standard frequencies because in most radios the "dial" to select the allowed range really works by physically jamming the dial with another block. If you remove that block, you could keep turning that dial. Haven't tried this myself, so take that with a pinch of salt.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by diffeomorphism on Friday July 01, 2022 @01:07AM (#31942605)
> I haven’t seen that supported anywhere since,

I had that come with a cheap motorola phone (3 years ago or so)

https://www.motorola-support.com/uk-en/?page=topic/applicati...

So not ubiquitous but not that rare either.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by pinewurst on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:47PM (#31941190)
Most phone chipsets actually implement this functionality. However the carriers tend not to approve its enablement.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ta8903 on Friday July 01, 2022 @01:42AM (#31942782)
I know you have a bunch of responses already but I got to say this, every single phone (dumb and smart) that I've used or seen used by my immediate family and friends has had this feature, I'm more susprised by the implication that there are phones that don't!
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by joshspankit on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:24PM (#31941487)
I actually just built a $4 FM receiver kit that uses the headphones for the antenna.

It was very common in previous decades because it was cheaper and allowed more room in the device (the alternative was the metal “pull to extend” antennas).

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by sudosysgen on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:17AM (#31942298)
A surprising number of phones have that feature but it's often disabled in software (especially in North America). Sometimes you can force enable it.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by interestica on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:15PM (#31941880)
I had an android phone about 5 years ago that could pick up over-the-air video broadcasts using the headphones as the antenna.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by TaylorAlexander on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:13PM (#31941870)
My mom's cheap new flip phone has this feature, so they're still shipping it on new devices.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ungamedplayer on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:55PM (#31940763)
Get a ferrite ring for your cable, solves more of these issues than you'd imagine.

Or a clip on, something like this : https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/ferrite-core-rfi-and-em...

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by dmix on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:11PM (#31940874)
I had no idea these existed. This is going to moving make my tube amp so much less annoying. Thank you.

https://resources.altium.com/p/how-do-ferrite-beads-work-and...

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by projektfu on Friday July 01, 2022 @06:04AM (#31944383)
An isolation transformer might also help.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by fifteenforty on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:09AM (#31942245)
They used to be common on USB cables, especially USB A to B cables for printers. Not sure why they disappeared.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by q-big on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:42AM (#31943879)
> Not sure why they disappeared.

Likely cost savings combined with design considerations ("these knobs look ugly").

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by neurostimulant on Friday July 01, 2022 @03:07AM (#31943331)
Those are ferrite cores? I thought it was covered solder joint or something.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by stoobs on Friday July 01, 2022 @05:26AM (#31944135)
Nope, clipped or glued ferrite, you used to also get them on power cables for certain devices
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by macNchz on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:51PM (#31941697)
It’s been almost 15 years but I do remember always knowing when my pre-smartphone cell phone was about to ring. It’d make my stereo system buzz loudly moments beforehand.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by NikolaNovak on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:45PM (#31942100)
I remember that! I wonder what it was - the actual signal sent or something in phone's reaction?
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by runnerup on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:43AM (#31942472)
Obviously the phone caused it. The signal from the tower wouldn’t be any different from all the other calls going to all the other phones on your block. They didn’t have beamforming that narrow.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by neurostimulant on Friday July 01, 2022 @03:04AM (#31943311)
There were even led accessories you can attach to your phone that will light up when the phone is transmitting a signal. Basically just some leds attached to some coils to harvest energy transmitted by the phone.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by Godel_unicode on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:48PM (#31940236)
This is the reason that balanced headphones are nice, the ability to reject many kinds of noise induced into the wiring.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by phaedrus on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:04PM (#31940387)
Got any tips for eliminating or mitigating the interference? Recently some retiree in my area got himself a new, illegally-high-powered CB radio so he can talk to truckers from his house. It comes through on the wired headphones I wear while working from home.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by CobaltFire on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:07PM (#31940419)
Find a HAM in your area and ask them to do a "Fox Hunt". Many enjoy hunting people violating the laws and giving a detailed report the the FCC, which has some rather impressive fines that they DO levy.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by wrycoder on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:38PM (#31941588)
First, HAM is not an acronym. It’s ham, a friendly joke referring to amateur radio operator.

Second, hams are not vindictive people, and most interference issues are sorted out locally, possibly with support from the ARRL. Some sources of interference can be very hard to find.

The FCC only levies massive fines when their instructions are being ignored. They don’t play games, that’s true.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by sentientslug on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:06PM (#31940404)
Contact the FCC
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ungamedplayer on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:57PM (#31940780)
If its not massively out of spec, get a ferrite ring for your cable.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by znpy on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:06PM (#31940408)
Get law enforcement involved. That retiree might be transmitting way above the allowed transmission power.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by aspyct on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:04AM (#31943665)
My personal best is receiving German radio (I'm from Belgium) through my Logitech 5.1 sounds system. Only when the volume was at minimum or maximum.

So odd.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:41PM (#31941604)
The only incidence of wired interference I have personally experienced was a ground loop in a car (car cigarette lighter-usb adaptor-usb cable-phone-aux cable-aux input on car stereo). I seem to recall fixing it with a <$5 component that isolated the signal, this was about 10 years ago and other vehicles I've owned haven't had the same issue.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by esperent on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:03PM (#31941325)
Living in a country where ground wires are not installed as standard, oh you are so wrong. Anything that has a wall plug carries crazy levels of background hum to any audio equipment I plug into it. I'm sure there is something I could buy to fix that (I can't fix the electrics though as I'm renting).

On the other hand, instead of doing loads of research and buying new equipment, I can just connect my headphones or speakers by Bluetooth and the noise is gone.

Now I have to deal with the annoyances of Bluetooth which are not zero either. But it's a great tradeoff for me.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by Marsymars on Friday July 01, 2022 @01:50AM (#31942839)
I have a pair of wireless RF headphones. They’re awesome - the base connects via optical, so no interference of any sort, the signal range is fantastic, the lag is minuscule, the pairing with the base is always automatic and perfect, and they take rechargeable AAA batteries that can recharge within the headphones when they’re on the base, or can be easily replaced.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by esperent on Sunday July 03, 2022 @07:21PM (#31971864)
That's cool, I'll take a look for these next time I'm headphone shopping.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:44PM (#31941638)
I've lived in a country without ground wires (japan), and used desktop speakers and headphones without issue.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by esperent on Sunday July 03, 2022 @07:21PM (#31971861)
I'm in Vietnam. Possibly it's something else with the power grid causing interference? Any device with metal sides (like a mac laptop) also constantly gives tiny electric shocks to people.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ncmncm on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:50AM (#31942509)
Buy a 1:1 transformer. Plug it into the wall, and plug in a power strip at the other end.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by esperent on Sunday July 03, 2022 @07:19PM (#31971853)
Thanks for the suggestion, I had not heard of this before.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by mirntyfirty on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:46PM (#31940225)
I think the lack of batteries is my favorite part...but the connectivity isn’t too far away in 2nd.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by chipotle_coyote on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:54PM (#31940757)
There are definitely some asterisks there. :)

I have a pair of desktop speakers that have both a USB input (to an onboard DAC) and an analog input; originally, I had the USB input connected to an iMac and used the analog input to plug into my work laptop. Recently, I swapped the iMac for a Mac Studio and a Studio Display, and figured that I could just unplug the Thunderbolt cable to the display from the computer and plug it into the laptop. I kept using the analog cable, though, because I wanted to keep the speakers directly plugged into the computer rather than the hub on the display, probably due to irrational audiophile-esque superstition that this would make the sound laggy or the highs less chocolaty or whatever. (More seriously, I've heard of DACs having stuttering issues when they're run through hubs, and hey, I had the cable, right.)

And the first time I plugged the analog cable into the same laptop that I'd been using, the only difference being that the Thunderbolt cable was also plugged into it, it was terrible.

Despite the audiophile joke above, I don't mean terrible in some kind of "this cable is making the sound subjectively worse" fashion, I mean terrible in a "when no sound is playing, I can hear grinding electrical noise going BZZZZZbzzzzGRRRFTTTTgrrnkFFFFNK constantly" fashion. The problem was clearly the Thunderbolt cable, even though it wasn't involved in the audio circuit at all. It's like it had turned into its own little RF interference generator. While I only had the one Thunderbolt cable so I couldn't swap it, the interference went through two different analog cables.

(This is not as weird as hearing RF interference over one specific pair of headphones from a headphone amp when nothing was playing but only when I was using a specific USB cable running to the same outboard DAC, which also happened to me years ago.)

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:50PM (#31941682)
Sounds to me like a ground loop. so you're right, I have had that issue once in my car (different grounding potential between the cigarette lighter output and the stereo aux input)
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ascagnel_ on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:15PM (#31941886)
Unless I'm mistaken, Thunderbolt is fiber optic; if it's fiber optic, it shouldn't be generating any EM or RF interference.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by rolleiflex on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:38PM (#31942048)
While optical Thunderbolt cables do exist, they are a niche product. Most Thunderbolt cables in existence is comprised of good old metal wires.

https://www.corning.com/optical-cables-by-corning/worldwide/...

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by ascagnel_ on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:50PM (#31942125)
Ah. I was mistaken -- I thought that TB3 requires fiber cables, while USB-C allows for copper.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:38PM (#31942042)
Thunderbolt uses usb-c connectors, definitely copper not fiber.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by Marsymars on Friday July 01, 2022 @01:47AM (#31942814)
I have a MacBook with a single-cable USB-C dock + audio cable. The Mac DAC is notably better than the DAC on most (possibly all) docks.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by wvenable on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:02PM (#31940813)
I have terrible connectivity and interference with wires!

As soon as I stand up my headphones become violently disconnected from my computer. Cables also interfere with each other and all the other items on my desk.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by bmitc on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:25PM (#31940997)
Did those headphones cost more or less than AirPods? Somehow, musicians and producers have worked for decades with wired headphones just fine. Beyerdynamic headphones can go for less than $200 and have a long straight cord or a coiled cord that stays out of the way.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by least on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:55AM (#31942541)
Musicians work with wired headphones because they largely have to, not because it's intrinsically better. You don't even need to be a musician or producer to experience the drawbacks being attached to a cable can have.

It's just different sets of compromises.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by helmholtz on Friday July 01, 2022 @01:41AM (#31942779)
It is intrinsically better though. Wired sound infinitely nicer sounding, and with much lower latency. Will we ever have a day when wireless will be sufficiently low latency?
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by least on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:37PM (#31952498)
I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that it is intrinsically better when both of the things you mention are tradeoffs you make, one of which isn't really true and the other which is an engineering issue.

> Wired sound infinitely nicer sounding

There are good sounding wireless headphones and terrible sounding wired headphones. The drawbacks is that with wireless headphones you can't control the sound stack and are dependent on the manufacturer to provide high quality drivers, amplification, and digital to analog conversion all built into the device.

> much lower latency

...is an engineering problem.

> Will we ever have a day when wireless will be sufficiently low latency?

A company already markets their wireless headphones directly to musicians, which is basically the threshold of low latency you need to meet; realtime monitoring [1]. Does it accomplish what it set out to do? Not sure, but seems like it's good enough for some people.

Ultimately it comes down to exactly what I said, which is that there are tradeoffs to using wired vs. wireless headphones and one is not intrinsically better than the other. You thinking that something sounds "infinitely better" doesn't make the rest of those tradeoffs not meaningful to other people.

[1] https://aiaiai.audio/headphones/tma-2-studio-wireless-plus

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by burmanm on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:39AM (#31945569)
There are some headsets (such as Audeze Penrose) that use 2,4GHz wireless instead of Bluetooth. Penrose's latency is reported to be 16ms. At least for games, that's good enough and noticeably better than anything over BT I've tested.

Of course, it has the dongle issue which limits the usage to certain devices (Xbox and Windows in my case, I haven't tested the dongle on my Mac or Linux).

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by manwe150 on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:43AM (#31945617)
The flow of electrons in a copper wire is much slower than a wireless or fiber optic signal, so over longer distances, theoretically it could be lower latency. I suppose the challenge is in building a fast enough encoder/decoder and dealing with interference
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:39AM (#31947015)
> The flow of electrons in a copper wire is much slower than a wireless or fiber optic signal, so over longer distances, theoretically it could be lower latency

"flow of electrons in a copper wire" has little to do with the speed of a signal transmitted via electrons in a copper wire - what we care about here is propogation delay[1]. Assuming that the speed is about c in air (a bit less but whatever) and at least 0.6c in copper, and assuming a minimum threshold of say 1ms of delay being noticeable to an audiophile, then you would need a headphone cable about 450km in length to noticed the difference.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_propagation_delay

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by lghh on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:02PM (#31941316)
I personally wouldn't want to run in those headphones.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by bmitc on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:41PM (#31941610)
Run at your desk?
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:45PM (#31941644)
I never want to run in any headphones. I do not like music while running.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:46PM (#31941652)
My cables are all routed in a bundle, no hasle. I can't keep the headphones on when I walk away, it's true.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by grumpyprole on Friday July 01, 2022 @01:54AM (#31942864)
Not always true. The USB-C port is already loose on my Android phone after only 1 year of use. I cannot use it with a DAC on the go for music, as the slightest wobble will cause a disconnect. I never had this issue with headphone jacks, but even so, wireless has some advantages.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by LinAGKar on Friday July 01, 2022 @01:57AM (#31942879)
Try cleaning lint out of the USB port
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by grumpyprole on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:38AM (#31943152)
I've tried compressed air. I still suspect mechanical wear. The port is after all, extremely small and intricate and of questionable design.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by LinAGKar on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:49AM (#31943210)
I don't know if that's enough, there wouldn't be much airflow at the bottom of the port. I've used a needle to clear out the compressed lint stuck at the bottom, and that made it hold the plug much better. But I suppose it could be mechanical, though that hasn't been my experience.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by globular-toast on Friday July 01, 2022 @04:24AM (#31943784)
I had the same experience. I thought the USB-C plug was terrible and I was cursing it for being so badly designed. I tried different cables but even the better ones (better in terms of not falling out) eventually would fall out. I then used a pin to mechanically remove the lint from the port and I was amazed at how much came out! After that the plugs went in so much further and are completely secure. Nowadays I don't get so much lint build up, probably because I work from home.

Compressed air will never get it out. It gets really compacted in there. Don't be afraid of using a needle, the port is quite rugged. Just avoid the contacts in the middle.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by grumpyprole on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:06AM (#31946589)
Thanks for the tip! I will try a needle and see if it helps.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:43AM (#31947065)
Ah that's fair - I am not a fan of how manufacturers have removed aux ports on phones for exactly this reason. A phone without an aux port is a dealbreaker for me (currently looking for a phone to replace my 4 year old galaxy a8, it's tough to find one as good!)
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by grumpyprole on Tuesday July 05, 2022 @05:03PM (#31993663)
The Sony Xperia's look good, but they are expensive.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by devy on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:41AM (#31942459)
Categorically false.

A high bandwidth data cables (aka wires) does introduce RF noise / EMIs. That's why ferrite bead were invented to reduce the noise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead

The reason some ethernet cable and audio cables don't have ferrite beads is because they have internal metal mesh EMI shielding. But not all cables have that.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Friday July 01, 2022 @10:41AM (#31947036)
Categorically false but at least functionally true for me.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by denkmoon on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:39PM (#31940171)
Having just spent several hundred $ to eliminate EMI from my audio setup, I wish it were true :')
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by nulld3v on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:43PM (#31940201)
Are you sure it was EMI and not ground loop?
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by denkmoon on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:10PM (#31940451)
Both, I believe. Had ground-loop from my setup involving a very cheap passive mixer and a an asortment of other cheap crappy usb dacs, and there was definitely some EMI involvement as you could hear it change as I moved my cables around the tangled mess of other high speed data cabling.

Don't have the equipment to test or diagnose, but empirically, having moved to using balanced cabling from point of analog conversion all the way to amp input, there's no sounds coming out of my headphones that shouldn't be.

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by rob_c on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:52PM (#31940270)
Lol, frankly I doubt many can tell
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by danmur on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:28PM (#31941511)
Mine get knocked out by cats running over my desk sometimes, that must count as interference
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by k8sToGo on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:35AM (#31943129)
I would not call cable management painless. Especially at the desk where every little thing needs a wire. But that is just me.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by chrisandchris on Friday July 01, 2022 @03:44AM (#31943554)
> My favourite part about wires is that there's never interference or poor connectivity. [...]

What a happy world. There's enough interference in cabling, but most time it's not enough to cause any issues. Had a case once where an AP with PoE did not work properly (started, then died, repeat) and the issue was that we had to much cable somewhere and rolled it. Interference caused issues, despite using STP and Cat. 6...

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by powersnail on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:06PM (#31940833)
It certainly does with my speaker. I can't charge the Anker speaker while using AUX, because it just sounds like a broken TV shouting at me.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:48PM (#31941664)
My speakers and headphones don't need to charge, which eliminates that opportunity for a ground loop.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by IG_Semmelweiss on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:49PM (#31941681)
Plenty of intereference from door handles.

Backpacks are also a recurring offender.

Many pieces of clothing... or objects you regularly traverse, can become a wire trap.

Those objects are the bait & fishing rod, and your wires are the fish :)

Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by SECProto on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:52PM (#31941709)
Bit of observer bias here, as I don't listen to headphones while out and about.
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by xxpor on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:36PM (#31940142)
That just means you're not running enough power through them ;)
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by olliej on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:27PM (#31941502)
The speakers attach to my computer when I was a teenager produced static when scrolling content of windows, so I would disagree :D
Re:Logitech MX Products are incompatible with AirPods by mr_toad on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:09PM (#31940441)
> all so much more painless.

Until you have to do the dusting, and you’ve got a tangle of cables in your way.