It would be interesting to get some stats on this. But the common advice when applying for jobs is to "get competing offers" so you can negotiate. I wouldn't be surprised if people who are getting offers at FB, can get a few very high quality offers at other places as well.
All of FANG seems to play this game where they will not send you a formal offer until you informally accept their informal offer. All to juice the “percent accepted” numbers and to make it marginally harder to play competing offers off each other.
I know it's not the primary point of the post, but define "much". An RN makes around 80k on average, they're also hourly and can generally pick up overtime whenever they want. Nurse anesthetists make double that at minimum, practitioners are north of 120k. It may not be as much as a FAANG position but I'd consider that decent pay, especially for such a stable position with decent WLB(omitting pandemic). Up until the past few years RN only required a 2 year degree.
Teachers don't make as much, but average pay in my lower cost of living area, just crossed 60k. That's not terrible, especially considering they only work 9/12 months and can get more for summer school or many of them find side jobs.
I think many teachers (almost all that I know, and all of the good ones) would disagree with you on that. Lesson planning, training/continuing education, scheduling, etc.
> many of them find side jobs
..why?
That is to say, I'm sure most people on here could get a side job if they wanted to. Is there a reason why teachers get side jobs and, say, programmers don't? (Yes, that's a rhetorical question.)
Most teachers work hard over the summer, it isn't a break. Pay isn't great.
And a certain mainstream political group puts significant effort into demonizing the profession and destroying the pay/benefits packages... which matters, because in public schools, the politicians hold the purse strings.
To add another data point, every teacher I know uses at least a third of their "break" for lesson planning. Usually more.
Source: levels.fyi
> they don't get paid much
which is how I suppose we're on the topic of arguing the semantics of "much". I think GP should have said "as much" to clarify, since this is a comparison between two specific jobs.
This might just be a Midwest thing but those sidejobs typically involve something drinking related
This isn't really a benefit. Public employees with access to a state pension generally don't pay into SS because their state pension is is lieu of social security. They pay into the pension instead and have to hope it exists in the future, which for many states is significantly riskier than relying on federal social security.
Oculus research has a better track record of publishing AR/VR research and opening up old hardware (unlocked Oculus Go) than anyone else doing serious AR/VR work.
Apple, on the other hand...
This one thing that happened 3 weeks ago is a "track record"?
It's nice to be paid a reliable 400k/year and work on something you think is cool.
He said you get to work on cool stuff, but it never actually gets deployed. And that everyone hates your employer, but you'll never get fired.
I definitely see how "work on cool stuff" + "don't worry about getting fired" could be pretty cool, if you don't have any investment in really creating things that are used.
I've known a lot of people who have a thriving life outside of work, but are also very driven and value their work highly.
As long as it isn't GPT-3... (:
Earlier I'd fallen ober myself for that but I ended up not following through. I love my current. I'm hesitant to work in a place where I can get thrown under the bus for being a man. I'm not sure I want to contribute to the surveillance economy etc.
Maybe another day I'll answer yes, but...
This is not a thing.
1) a team I was previously on had two open headcount. I knew a friend of mine that would have been a perfect fit for the role. I suggested my friend and was told that they weren't considering men or non-diverse candidates. I'm a mixed Latino and was told this from a white man
2) a government grant was given to businesses impacted by covid, and our business assisted with this. Preference was given to women and minorities. White men were held in a queue. Eventually a lawsuit was filed by white men claiming discrimination and the court stopped the program. Dozens of people in my company Slack were furious that the white men held up money disbursement because of their "racism". This was the narrative for weeks
3) there have been official mandates to interview minorities (non-white, non-Asian men) before anyone else (is this even legal?)
4) in an effort to combat wage discrimination against men, women are paid more on average than men in respective wage bands. This is announced quarterly and celebrated
5) women get special groups, off sites, and classes paid for by the company. woman and minorities get special coverage, special interest stories, community highlights, and praise. white and Asian males do not unless they are LGBT
6) a female colleague of mine (who I like as a friend) is an extremely low performer. We've all had to pick up the slack from her, and at times I've had to explain things repeatedly that I'd fail candidates in interviews for. she's never been given a negative performance eval, yet a collage who went through a bad quarter got fired
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edit: flagged, which is disappointing. I'm not anti-women or anti-minority. I am a minority on the race and sexuality dimensions. why isn't my experience valid?
I directly know of an international financial institution (that probably most of the HN-ers have heard of) telling my SO's company, "off the record", that they would prefer to have a woman engineer assigned to their IT contracting position (my SO works for a IT services consulting company). One of my friends works for a FAANG company and he told me that a woman was directly chosen over a man for a promotion only because she was a woman, the man had higher credentials and had done more for the company than said woman but in the end that wasn't enough. I'm from Europe, where things have not gotten so out of control as in the States, so I suppose over there these cases happen even more often.
Just answering the questions about legality:
1: 100% illegal. Any FAANG manager has likely had to go through hiring training that stresses this point.
3: 100% illegal.
4: Might be illegal under Federal law if this is a blanket policy, definitely illegal under California law (most "equality"-type laws and programs are deliberately worded to be gender and race neutral).
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/2/17070624/google-youtube-wi...
My FAANG currently has 3 on the books in writing (it is called diversity slating), and has for periods of time ordered 1 verbally by vice presidents in certain organizations, that hiring is frozen but if a diversity candidate is found exceptions should be made.
You are correct with what the training stresses, my impression is that has little impact on the bigger picture that companies are shamed for not getting these numbers up so they turn every screw they can.
Some are relatively mild, others will literally put resumes from the wrong group of people in the recycle bin. And the wrong groups are not the historically under represented ones.
Are you worried your ability to be employed working on tech would be put at risk as a man working in FAANG? What would that look like?
I'm genuinely confused here. Is this comment a thinly veiled political axe to grind? A misconception about how real life works day-to-day at these companies? What exactly does "thrown under the bus for being a man" mean? How would that work and what kind of conversation do you imagine happening?
FYI: You can get thrown under the bus because your manager doesn't like the way your face looks. You can get thrown under the bus by jealous coworkers, or just someone looking to deflect blame. You can get thrown under the bus for anything if you coworkers are sociopaths, jerks, or just don't like you. Don't work for teams or organizations like that. If you accidentally find yourself there: move somewhere else.
I'm not so sure about that. Zuckerberg is on record saying old people just aren't as smart.
Afiak they're about to open (extend?) a new office in London, not sure if that's related or not. When one of my friends told me that (he works for a FAANG company) I had a similar reaction to yours: "Where are they going to get the people for that in this market?"
Unless that continent is Antarctica I don't see the problem here.
No it doesn't. Are you familiar with a product called Workplace [0] released in 2016 [1]?
[0] https://www.workplace.com/
[1] https://www.pocket-lint.com/apps/news/facebook/139126-facebo...
They haven't adjusted any of the engagement levers for the workplace tool, so you get so many notifications that they become useless (and the email versions are just teasers to get you to open workplace), you get an out of order "news feed", the groups UI is hard to understand and difficult to search, messenger is enabled in the UI and you can't turn it off, etc.
But yeah, it's Facebook, and it's what they use for everything internally.
How would that work being a new hire at Tesla considering that they probably pay a lot of folks less than is required to own one?
Cars, appliances, housing, fuel & energy, food, etc. Huge, huge swaths of the economy don't require brand loyalty because it's not reasonable to expect.
But in more modern times, there's certainly a general expectation to use your employer's products when it's reasonable to do so even if they're not your preferred options. There are exceptions of course and tech companies are usually more flexible these days.
It becomes more questionable when that product is on the backend of hundreds of thousands of engineer-hours dedicated to optimizing engagement. Bit like saying "sorry bud, we don't want your chemical engineering talent in our meth shop unless you are a meth addict, surely you understand self-hosting enables us to make a superior product"
It is not surprising if the goal is not to fill vacancies or expanding needs, but to prevent competing companies from having these people at their disposal. There will be enough offers to cover every possible person who could do this computer-focused work that might go to work for a competitor.
Another explanation is that there is a high attrition rate (e.g., like Amazon) and the company must overcompensate. Thus there will always be high numbers of advertisied positions that are never filled.
A third explanation is the company just has too much money and no clear ideas on how to spend it. (Case in point: Metaverse) Companies tend to sustain higher and higher levels of, for lack of a better term, "stupidity/foolishness" as the cash flow increases further and further beyond the company's immediate needs. Having heaps of cash on hand does not necessarily focus the mind; it can have the opposite effect.
Have you head of finance? What I think is that most current tech folks started their careers out of genuine interest, and so think along the lines you describe. But now that the money has really arrived, the balance will shift to the type-A aspirational folks who only care about the highest paying, most highly regarded career, and are looking for some FAANG->YC Startup->Management path. These people absolutely are happy to do whatever as long as they get external validation, and would have no compunction about working at FB as long as it keeps them on the track they planned.
I almost want finance to be glamorized again so it can siphon these people away.
All of FAANG pays well, so what's left is whether the work is interesting/important/fulfilling and whether the company has integrity/evil issues. Eg you might think F1 has interesting problems despite glorifying fossil fuel cars, or you might think drones are technically challenging despite being used to kill people. Loads of people become nurses and teachers because they want to help people, even though they don't get paid much.
What you're less likely to do is work in an area where your work isn't interesting, contributes nothing significant, and rots people's minds.
I found it interesting that only half their job offers are taken up, that's super surprising to me. I suppose it's possible that people with one FAANG offer have more than one? If that's the case, all the rest of FAANG would likely have less stink than FB at the moment, and also wins on the work axis.