Never again will I buy anything Samsung.

They have steadfastly refused to fix my fridge's ice maker even though they have admitted it's a design fault, and retailers will not take it back as faulty because the ice maker is not considered vital to the functioning of the refrigerator in general.

New Zealand has a bit of legislation called the Consumer Guarantees Act, and it specifies something to the effect of ‘the thing should have a lifespan commensurate with the price, free of defects or faults’. It’s really great - the downside is that we pay more for things than people overseas do. I vastly prefer that we have it.

I got my samsung plasma TV repaired after 4 years of ownership because the Consumer Guarantees Act says that appliances have to last as long as a 'reasonably expected' lifetime, that repair options have to be available and that the warranty period for major defects is that 'reasonably expected' lifetime.

It's still working now, ten years post-purchase.

Would be glad to pay a bit more to ensure quality. My persistent fear when buying something is - if it fails, how do I get it serviced/replaced, or barring that - how will I dispose of it. Because dumping it feels completely unsustainable.

It's prevented me from buying to replace a lot of my stuff.

Would be interesting to know if big manufacturers then only sell their most dependable models in the NZ market, in order to avoid the costs that they can avoid in more business-friendly markets like the US.

It would be a good way to decide which products to buy. Is this (equivalent) model sold in New Zealand? If so, it's probably known by the manufacturer to be solid. If not, avoid it at all costs.

What happens is that big companies try to trick consumers (as most consumers are not aware of their legal rights). Common tactics are:

* It will cost x to fix this, as a gesture we will share the inflated repair cost with you 50/50.

* We don't make this model anymore but we have an identical model with a different serial number, we can offer you that at a "discount".

* We found the item had water damage and this is not covered in our warranty, even when we advertised these items being used in water.

* We are happy to repair the item but first we need to have the item inspected by a repair agent to see how the fault occurred. Please be aware if we find the fault is caused by you, then you agree to pay x dollar value amount even if we do not repair item (because you were at fault)

* Item spends many weeks being assessed for repair. Doesn't get repaired, sent back. Repeat.

.. and many more.

Only when you stand firm and start spouting the legal requirements do they suddenly resolve the situation VERY quickly.

I dealt with dodgy Samsung fridges and they tried to "share" the repair cost with me. I politely declined, then sent them an email citing my legal rights. Samsung then repaired the fridge promptly and no longer tried to talk with me about sharing costs of repair.

Most consumers fall for the tricks above or give up and buy a new item.

I don't think international companies care too much, they are adept selling to the masses. Those that cite the rules to get a repair are likely to be a tiny minority.

There is another aspect of the law which is less known. It is not actually Samsung or large manufacturer on the hook for consumer guarantee. It is the retailer. The retailer has to remedy the situation. If Samsung packs up operations, the retailer still needs to stand by the product it sold. This means that the retailer has an incentive to work with more reliable manufacturers and suppliers and will promptly ditch troublesome suppliers.

It's probably cheaper to insure and replace garbage Hardware.

A lot of consumers probably don't know or care so they might get away with the same products and just take the hit from the few returns. I'm in NZ and never knew about that reasonable lifetime bit. I just have a vague awareness that most appliances come with a card saying they have a 1 or 2 year warranty and beyond that, assume it's on me. There's usually some language like "in addition to your rights under the CGA" but who knows what those rights are. Also, below some price, it's just too much hassle to have figure out how returning it works and weighing the risk that I might get charged for the repair if it turns out to be due to mistreatment, not a defect.

Australia has the same thing. Amazing to have an actual law to protect consumers a bit from multinationals.

Wonder how long until our politicians take it away.

> have a lifespan commensurate with the price

> we pay more for things than people overseas do

This sounds wonderfully cyclical. "Why do I expect my washer to last an extra year? Because it cost 10% more than the one sold in America, which is expected to last a decade".

" the downside is that we pay more for things than people overseas do"

Isn't that they just force you to buy extended warranty on everything?

A warranty that's legally enforced, though. Part of the reason there are so many jokes about extended warranties is that it's very hard to make the seller actually honour them.

A practical example is the an Apple extended warranty is basically in effect on every Apple product in New Zealand. There are some things you don’t get, but if you notify them after 3 years that your phone is not not working (no drop damage or water damage though), they will replace it.

Ice makers are notoriously flimsy. Serious race to the bottom by the manufacturers. The good news is that they're easy to replace (undo a couple of bolts and unplug a cable and they usually come right out), bad news is the replacements are ridiculously expensive, like $100 each and come with all of the same design flaws the original had. There is also surprisingly little standardization which makes the replacements even more expensive as there are hundreds of mostly but not quite compatible models to stock and you have to be very careful when ordering replacements.

Most were up to a few years ago, but the big players went out of their way to make dependable ice makers--I thought.

The last two refrigerators I bought had dependable ice makers.

I just overheard an installer talking to a neighbor while installing his refrigerator.

The tech said most modern refrigerations only last 10 years at best though.

Unofortunately some manufacturers are now implementing DRM to control your use of the ice maker function.

See: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgxpjy/hacker-bypasses-ges-r... and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22129801

10 years is actually quite good for major appliances. If you're warrantied for 3 and manage to get 10 years out if it you've exceeded the design parameters. Environmentally, replacing a broken fridge is usually the only time someone will even research something more energy efficient.

Meanwhile my Grandmother still uses her fridge from the 60s. It still has the kind of handles where you can get locked inside and almost die if you are on a very special episode of any 80's kid show.

I thought fridges should last 15-20 years at least. 3 years is a joke.

Wow. So the idea is that we want them to wear out more quickly so that they buy a new product that's more energy efficient? That strikes me as terribly wasteful. What about the impacts of a discarded appliance?

The compressor is almost certainly the most expensive part of the fridge. It's also one of 2 moving parts on fridge (the other the being the fan, which is cheap), making it the most likely to fail.

I checked some list prices, and they're a substantial price of the fridge itself. Some site said $200-$450 to replace one, another said the part itself is $100-$500 without even including labor. At those prices, I can see why people might just buy new. It's also something most people would want to hire a professional for; refrigerants are not good to inhale, and this needs to be air-tight.

I would also hope that most of them get refurbished. It's pretty hard to just "discard" a fridge. You have to call someone at the city (or GoodWill), and I presume they sell those to refurbisher. They're worth some money.

So I think in reality, it goes to a refurbisher who fixes it, then sells it to someone else who replaces and even older fridge. So the fridge that actually ends up in a landfill might be a 1960s deep freeze. The same idea as used cars.

The thing that gets me is that for commercial operations it seems to be a solved problem. They break and require maintenance like anything else but if they’re not outright broken they are super reliable where fridge ice dispensers even when they’re working suck.

Standalone ice machines in particular infuriates me as 90% of the machines on Amazon are copies of the same broken design: it rotates a plastic water container by firing a motor on one side only for a number of seconds without any sensor to stop it. As a result, if you use them heavily, it reliably develops stress fractures after a year or so.

It took me four broken machines to find a model without that exact same design flaw...

It seems a lot of the problems with these kind of products is that most customers use them quite little, and so they don't see a major fallout even for problems that'd be trivial to fix (many of the ice maker models in question has a switch to stop rotation too far in the opposite direction) and so it just gets ignored.

I have never heard about anyone having trouble with an ice maker until I read this.

My ice maker has been working fine for over 15 years. My mother's ice maker has been working fine for about 25 years.

You have old ones from before the manufacturers stopped caring. It seems like ones made in the past 5 years have gone precipitously downhill, especially the GE ones.

The Icemaker in my Frigidaire refrigerator has never worked since I bought the house, the problem is that the coils keep freezing over (the icemaker is in the refrigerator compartment so has its own freezer coil to make it cold)

I spent a weekend pulling it out, thawing everything out, and then replacing the defroster coil, thinking that would fix it. It didn't -- it worked for about a week afterwards until freezing over again.

Me neither! I got their fridge, and in my case the deicing functionality is faulty. There is a little metal tab behind the back panel that heats up an ice dam to keep the condensation flowing out, that happens to be too short by about 2cm. They skimped on 2cm of aluminum and now I will never buy anything Samsung ever again.

So in short, it seems that they can neither make a proper ice maker nor ice un-maker :-)

Hey I had that same issue with my old fridge, a guy on YouTube helped me solve it! Take a short piece of the copper ground wire from a length of Romex and wrap it around the heating element, then have it point down into the drip area. It should conduct enough heat to keep the fins from icing up. It's not ideal but it saved me from replacing the (I think) evaporator fan for a third or fourth time, plus all the ruined food. Also had to replace the mainboard on the pile of junk fridge. So glad I don't own it anymore.

When I worked delivery at a national big box home improvement store, Samsung and LG refrigerators that we brought back due to ice maker not working went to the recycle trailer and was sold for scrap once the trailer filled up.

Same. Samsung has had a bad reputation for a while. I remember having issues with their CRT monitors back in mid 2000s. I bought one of their smart TVs back in 2011 and it's had issues with the panel ever since with randomly showing purple & pink lines. Their cell phones have also been crap in my personal experience.

I've never had a good experience with a Samsung device. Their TV screens are too blue for me, their appliances fail too quickly and are not user repair friendly, their phones have too much bloat.

Admittedly, this is all down to personal experience and taste but I am decidedly anti-samsung. I've had a few decent computer monitors from them but otherwise everything I've owned from them has become e-waste with far too much rapidity for the price paid.

If you can find a good stylus, I won't need a Note anymore. The Note is the last Samsung device that I buy, but only because there is absolutely no competition. I don't even use all the fancy S-Pen software, I just use the stylus for the same functionality that every Android device has.

Moto has a stylus phone out now.

Thank you, I'll take a look at that!

I won't buy appliances anywhere other than Costco for this reason. No-questions-asked returns for 90 days on appliances, and a year on most other items. Extended warranty for several years for free if you use their credit card, too.

Yeah but good luck getting them delivered in the first place. My understanding is that Costco owns Innovel now and they are a truly terrible logistics company. Buyer beware!

What country do you live in?

Anecdotal but I've had very good experience with Samsung front loading washing machine, might depend on regions of the world though, I've had one in Asia and one in Europe.

My Samsung front-loader failed the first time in less than a year. Right after that, the Samsung dryer I bought with it also failed.

My Samsung refrigerator had the display fail after two years, and the replacement display started failing in a month. I no longer bother buying replacement displays because everyone else agrees they never last more than a few months.

No more Samsung appliances for me, ever. And CR's credibility took a major hit in my eyes because I bought the washer & dryer on their recommendation, even after I already knew that Samsung refrigerators were garbage.

That's crazy because I've had terrible experience with Samsung front loader washing machines. I own a few rental properties, so I tend to go through appliances a lot and I've had more Samsung washers and dryers fail than anything else.

The dryers are the worst. They use a plastic tensioner pulley for the belt, but the pulley doesn't have a bearing...it just rides on a metal sleeve. This eventually wears out and causes the belt to fly off.

The washers have this issue I think due to incompatible metals (aluminum mounting to the stainless drum maybe) that causes them to break after about 5 years.

> This eventually wears out and causes the belt to fly off.

On my dryer it took less than a year before it tossed the belt.

Australia had a spate of house fires caused by Samsung washing machines whose electronics weren't properly waterproofed, shorted, and then burned.

I have avoided Samsung products since then.

Trouble with this way of deciding is that it's biased by the number of individual products a brand has. Samsung has a lot so they're exposed to more risk of some bad ones even if they're safer on average than their competitors.

You used to see this with car brands back when everybody worried about reliability. Somebody would hear a bad story and go round saying "Don't buy BMWs because their fuel injectors fail". Fortunately, most people have goldfish memory, so people still buy Ford cars despite the Ford Pinto's fuel tank fires and they still buy Toyota despite the Prius's uncontrolled acceleration or whatever.

Try to stay away from pricy Bosh washers, and dishwashers.

I can offer this with a Bosh. If you get a E13 error it's the pump.

It's a pretty easy fix. You can get a generic pump for $50.

Most disguarded Bosh washers are due to a pump. The computer is second on the list. It's not worth fixing if it's the board.

I've been meaning to put a fan on my washer's computer board. There us definitely room in there for a computer fan.

Frequently with an E13 it's just an item stuck in the pump outlet plumbing.

It’s Bosch fyi

My experience has been fine after I learned that ankle socks and masks will cause the machine to jam. Now I just hand wash small items and the machine works perfectly /sarcasm>

Edit: I’m getting downvoted. Is this a well known thing not to wash small items? (I’ve been using washing machines for 20 years, without a problem until this one.)

> Is this a well known thing not to wash small items

Front loaders specifically - though usually to protect the objects being washed, not the machine itself. The joint around the door tends to pinch small objects. I put masks in a mesh bag meant for washing "delicates"

Seems like LG makes better appliance than Samsung in general... but I guess mileage varies between model and customer.

Samsung and LG are so big that I would not expect to be able to make an objective statement on either's quality relative to another, not even for a specific product line, much less company wide.

Doesn’t a larger sample size reduce the noise?

I think the issue is that both companies make very cheap and very expensive products in various places around the globe. So, we could be reading series of negative comments from people that got an inexpensive model made in Mexico versus people that got an expensive one made in Korea, or something like that.

that's a good point regarding price points... but I didn't realize the price went up to $8000 for a fridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEDxRY4xcCI

Life is Good indeed.

We bought a 1.5k refrigerator which died after 2 years (warranty expires exactly at that time in Europe). We had extended repair, it died again after another year.

Never again!

Worth noting that in UK under the Consumer Rights Act there is no specific time limit for poor engineering causing a problem that the _seller_ must fix. The limitation is 2 years or how long I've would normally expect such a product to last. A fridge should easily last a decade and so in theory there's a 10 year "warranty" period. The seller can have things repaired, replace them, or offer a refund (refunds can be reduced to account for the use you did get from the product).

We need to use legislation and taxation to push for every longer-lived appliances.

Same in Australia

Front loading washing machines just seem like an all around more fragile design that is also less usable.

I have an HE top loader. It uses just as little water, but it can wash a lot more clothes when needed. I can push a button and it stops being HE and can fill its tub up to wash blankets and comforters.

Also front loaders just can't clean synthetic fabrics that water beads off of. I've seen fabrics come out of a front loader almost completely dry because the tiny bit of water that is used can't even penetrate the outer layer of fabric. Mostly my Ikea comforters, I put one in a front loader I used to have and after a complete wash cycle it wasn't even damp, and it was still very dirty.

Finally, front loaders are mechanically more complex. For one, if that seal fails, well, it leaks. The simplicity of a Top loaders means they can last longer, and in the very least top loaders don't get all gunked up around the door seal. I have seen so many front loaders that smell awful because no one ever cleans the crud out of the seal, ick!

Aside from space savings, I really don't get the point of a front loader at all. Maybe the tumbling action is better at some types of cleaning?

I've literally never ever seen a washing machine that isn't a 'front loader' here in the UK either in someones house or in a store, I didn't know you could still buy other ones!

UK yeah, you all have those washer/dryer combos that wash tiny loads, and almost set clothes on fire to dry them. (In my experience they also take forever to dry the clothes!) Can't be very good for synthetics, I have clothing that has gotten scorch marks from my American dryer's "medium heat" setting, I can't imagine what would have happened in a UK machine!

It should be noted that in many places in the US that hanging clothes outside is either not allowed, or impractical. Also I've had some really bad nights (baby) where I needed to wash and dry all my bedding twice over, so having a, rather fast, dryer was nice.

Seriously though, if you need to wash a large comforter, what do you do? I haven't seen a front loader large enough to fit a proper comforter in. Something like http://canyon-sports.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/91YEVCAn...

In America, you can buy top loaders or front loaders. Front loaders are popular in condos and apartments because you can stack them with a dryer.

I’ve seen one of those combo things in my entire life. They’re awful but certainly not common. The front loading machines allow you to have the machine inset under a kitchen counter which is a common place for them in the UK. Separate “laundry rooms” aren’t common and neither are basements so the machine needs to fit in other use environments. I used top loading machines for a while when living in Canada and had constant problems with the detergent staining clothes.

Regarding the sizing again, I’ve never had a problem. I’ve also never heard of anybody washing a comforter (although I don’t call it a comforter so maybe I’m misunderstanding what you mean). A comforter (or duvet) has a cover on it and you wash the cover.

Depends on each one's habits, but around here washing such a big comforter would be a "special cleaning day" type of thing, to happen just once in a year or couple of years (or even more, if it has been kept clean). So e.g. after the winter finishes, before putting the heavy clothing away in a closet for the summer, you might bring it to a laundry shop for cleaning, which usually has huge front loaders: https://previews.123rf.com/images/toonpang/toonpang2008/toon...

My washing machine can fit in one of those 'comforters' (duvet as It would seem to other UK folk!) easily with more to boot. Maybe our front loaders are larger than the ones available in the US?

The front loaders in the US tend to be of the High Efficiency variety, which means they spray just a little bit of water on the clothing and then "tumble" it around to get the clothes clean.

If the machine is stuffed full this doesn't work, the water gets caught in some fold of the clothing and you end up with 1 damp spot and an otherwise dry duvet.

I Air BnB'd my way around the UK, the washing machines in the places I stayed were generally tiny, like smaller than anything I've even seen in the US, but that could've just been an artifact of me staying in Air BnBs.

They all did share the trait of getting the clothing seemingly scorching hot to dry it though. :/

American top loading machines are generally huge. Now days they have sensors to detect how much water they really need to use, so they aren't going through LMAOWTFBBQ gallons of water like they did when I was a kid.

Definitely a symptom of AirBNB. Every single one I've stayed in has the cheapest most laughably small washing machine. Considerably smaller than the ones most people would purchase for their own home.

Huh. Top loaders are more common than front loaders in the US.

Not in apartments, where machines are often stacked on top of each other.

> Also front loaders just can't clean synthetic fabrics that water beads off of.

None of the front loaders I’ve used has had a problem with that. Are you sure the one data point you apparently have experience with wasn't just an older and/or relatively low-quality front-loader?

> Aside from space savings, I really don't get the point of a front loader at all.

They are easier to get stuff out of than a top loader of similar size, particularly for larger ones. I’ve also never seen a top loader with a steam cycle, though I guess its possible they exist.

My wife says front loaders are more gentle, so do less damage to delicate clothes. Maybe due to the lack of the central agitator (do new top loaders still have that)?

The big reason I prefer them though: I can put a counter top above them for folding laundry and things.

They are an absolute pain in the ass to keep clean and odor free though.

Higher end top loaders don't have the giant doom spiral in the middle that rips fabrics apart. :)

I think it's mostly about being able to stack other appliances on top of them to save space. Especially dryers.

Here in Spain I've never seen anything but front loaders, they are almost always embedded into the distribution of the bathroom or kitchen, kinda like dishwashers. Front loading allows you to use the space above it for the kitchen counter or such, washing machines rarely have their door opened anyway.

The spin cycle dries synthetics to near dry if the machine is lightly loaded. Works the same on top loaders.

I had heard of exploding Samsung laundry machines. And the house I bought has one. I dread the day it decides to do its thing.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/companies/samsung-expl...

Not around here. TVs, fridge and a/c throughout the house working without issue for more than 10 years so far. A couple of Samsung mobile phones as well that kept going until they were so old they could not receive updates.

You can add stoves to that list.

I had a Samsung front loader and it's a great washer.

Was it the one that sings a Schubert tune every time the wash is done?

That cracks me up.

It's a Korean version, I am not familiar with the tune it was playing.