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Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by TrackerFF on Friday May 14, 2021 @01:15PM (#27156815)
I got downvoted for saying that maybe it's time to treat serious ransomware attacks (infrastructure, security, health, etc.) as terrorism - as in the sense that they're a threat to the national security. But this kinda shows the response I was referencing to.

A lot of people like to think of ransomware attacks as the ultimate stress test as far as security goes, and thus a good thing - but let's not get too blinded by our professions (most probably in tech), these kinds of attacks can have serious consequences: Imagine if some foreign state agency (masquerading as hackers) launches a multiheaded attack on, say, utilities plants - in the middle of the winter. The victims/targets will pay whatever us necessary.

With that said, I understand that many people will recoil at such things - we saw what the patriot act did, and how easy it is to overstep and abuse such laws, in the name of "national security". But it is a serious problem, in the same way actual piracy thrived in the gulf of Aden, as soon as the shipping companies started paying.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by schoen on Friday May 14, 2021 @01:45PM (#27157321)
Maybe people didn't like your use of the term "terrorism" for national security threats?

A common understanding is that terrorism is intended to frighten people or make them feel unsafe, while various official definitions of terrorism include the idea that it's intended to coercively achieve some particular political goal.

If attackers just intend to get money, they're probably well-described as extortionists (or in some cases, as you said, akin to pirates). If they just intend to damage a particular society without demanding anything from it or getting it to change its behavior, they might be saboteurs.

Attacks with these motives or that pretend to have these motives could still be considered national security threats (and taken very seriously), but maybe shouldn't be described specifically as terrorism.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by thesuperbigfrog on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:38PM (#27158075)
On the high seas of the Internet there is a thin line between pirates and state actors. There could even be "privateer" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer) attackers who work for a nation and for profit at the same time.

From the victim's perspective it matters less who is attacking you or why they are attacking you and much more what the results of the attack are, how you can mitigate and recover from the damage, and what needs to be done to prevent future attacks.

For the case of DarkSide and Colonial Pipeline, the attackers did not claim to have a political motive, but the resulting fuel shortages and panic buying might as well have been a form of terrorism.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by wongarsu on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:10PM (#27159151)
Just causing terror doesn't make it terrorism. Causing terror as a means to further some political (or religious) goal would make it terrorism.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by 8ytecoder on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:44PM (#27159486)
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. That's literally the Oxford dictionary definition.

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+terrorism

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by shelbyKiraM on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:37PM (#27160412)
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by bluefirebrand on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:28PM (#27159341)
With that definition this is explicitly not terrorism, because it was for money not for political or religious reasons?
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by akiselev on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:53PM (#27159557)
Yes. Its an important distinction because they are fundamentally different motives. If the motive is money, various strategies can drive up the cost until the behavior is no longer profitable and the bad actors stop. Religion and ideology are completely different beasts and most strategies that work on profiteers only entrench the others.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by omgwtfbbq on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:04PM (#27159679)
Just like how robbing a bank may cause terror to the people in the bank or the neighborhood but it was done for profit not politics.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by suifbwish on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:33PM (#27160779)
Wealth is the primary means of expanding ones political influence. It’s a primitive tool like a talking stick to coerce all the other monkeys to do shit for you. Trying to gain money is absolutely political
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by Dylan16807 on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:14PM (#27161044)
I think you just defined yelling at someone over money to be terrorism.

You can make a reasonable argument that "nothing is apolitical" but but that's not the definition of political being used when people say what terrorism is.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by suifbwish on Wednesday May 19, 2021 @02:36PM (#27212607)
You are correct; that is the consequence of taking the definition to its ultimate conclusion. Either our definition of terrorism is incomplete or our idea of money is.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by tw04 on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:01AM (#27164158)
You could call it unintentional terrorism I suppose. The timing with what's going on in Ukraine along with Putin's repeated threats makes it look political even if it wasn't. It's entirely possible they just happened to be a group of Russians who picked the wrong target at the wrong time. It's also entirely possible they were doing the Kremlin's work and just not announcing it publicly because that's not really how Putin plays the game.

I have to believe that played a role in the response they received as well.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by suifbwish on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:31PM (#27160762)
Money is pure politics. The attacker becoming rich can legally be considered a political goal as the nature of money is political. If they endanger an entity or someone else’s resources to gain that political goal they are guilty of terrorism as they used fear to enact political change.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by mhluongo on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:50PM (#27160885)
The mental gymnastics here are incredible.

I'm a frequent "everything is political" commenter myself, but since when is naked self interest through theft a political action?

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by waheoo on Friday May 14, 2021 @09:49PM (#27161551)
These are the same types of people that claim "there are no good books" with a smirk on while suggesting books to read on white privilege after just telling you it's not his job to educate you on such matters even though he's literally being paid to sit there and educate you.

The insanity of it all is incomprehensible.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by IncRnd on Friday May 14, 2021 @10:29PM (#27161766)
> Money is pure politics.

That only true when right is up and down is left.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by stjohnswarts on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:51PM (#27161239)
Only if you're a Marxist and limit your world view to what you can see through that lens.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by dools on Friday May 14, 2021 @09:16PM (#27161373)
No, money is inherently political as a matter of observable fact. It is created by governments and its value is driven by taxation.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by sonograph on Friday May 14, 2021 @09:27PM (#27161444)
> It is created by governments and its value is driven by taxation.

How does taxation drive value? Which taxation? There are governments that don't charge income taxes, there are governments that don't charge property taxes, there are governments that don't charge sales taxes.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by remolacha on Saturday May 15, 2021 @02:26AM (#27162928)
This idea comes from Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). Most mainstream economists do not agree with it. But the MMT claim is that at base, people only need USD because it’s how taxes are denominated. The notion is that without the driving force of compelled taxation, no one would use USD or other sovereign currencies. MMT also claims, through similar logic, that a monetary sovereign can print an extreme amount of currency without causing inflation. Which MMT’ers use to justify massive government spending programs.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by aww_dang on Saturday May 15, 2021 @05:20AM (#27163673)
The idea isn't exclusive to MMT. Critics from across the spectrum recognize that taxation supports the USD. Buttresses such as legal tender laws, the petrodollar system and other barriers serve to support the USD.

Tally sticks are an early example of monetized debt as a taxation medium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by dools on Saturday May 15, 2021 @04:57AM (#27163575)
The words “extreme” and “massive” are subjective. MMT claims that the best way for a monetarily sovereign government to maintain aggregate spending at full employment levels is to hire anyone willing to work but who cannot find work in either the private sector or the permanent government sector.

Also note that the work of legal historians such as Christine Desan who are not affiliated with MMT economists concurs with this analysis.

Also note that most mainstream economists do actually agree with the tenets of MMT when individually stated but base their disagreement on a deliberate misreading/misstatement of MMT which they then proceed to criticise.

That taxation is sufficient to drive demand for a currency is not contentious, that it is necessary is unconfirmed.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by mietek on Saturday May 15, 2021 @01:30AM (#27162683)
Simply: money is what you use to pay your taxes.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by dools on Saturday May 15, 2021 @12:25AM (#27162349)
There are many different types of taxation, but there is no currency that doesn’t derive its value from taxation. People call things like Bitcoin currency but until a sovereign runs their financial system of federal settlement payments on the Bitcoin blockchain it is only a commodity like gold or silver or corn.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by monkeybutton on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:42PM (#27161182)
I think Evil Corp falls under the definition of privateer:

>As noted in previous stories here, during times of conflict with Russia’s neighbors, Slavik was known to retool his crime machines to search for classified information on victim systems in regions of the world that were of strategic interest to the Russian government – particularly in Turkey and Ukraine.

>“Cybercriminals are recruited to Russia’s national cause through a mix of coercion, payments and appeals to patriotic sentiment,” reads a 2017 story from The Register on security firm Cybereason’s analysis of the Russian cybercrime scene. “Russia’s use of private contractors also has other benefits in helping to decrease overall operational costs, mitigating the risk of detection and gaining technical expertise that they cannot recruit directly into the government.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/inside-evil-corp-a-100m-...

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by notatoad on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:26PM (#27160338)
>On the high seas of the Internet there is a thin line between pirates and state actors

maybe in as far as their capabilities go, but the important characteristic of a state actor is that retaliating against them is construed as a retaliation against the state that backs them. Darkside is very different to a state actor, as demonstrated here - retaliation has no significant geopolitical implications, so it can be swift and harsh.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by jcims on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:10PM (#27161026)
Honestly I’d say any highly asymmetric violent or offensive action would lend many folks to trot out the T word.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by squeaky-clean on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:37PM (#27158061)
They may have just intended to get money, but they definitely spread terror. I had to have like an hour long phone call with my mother on Monday explaining why she had to go to 4 gas stations before she could get any gas, and that no the pipeline was not going to explode.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by a9h74j on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:07PM (#27158452)
From the satire site that shall not be named: "People in the Middle East head to bomb shelters after learning that Americans are experiencing gasoline shortages."
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by mannykannot on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:03AM (#27164166)
Could it perhaps have been the use of the word 'terrorism' in news reports that prompted her fear of the pipeline exploding?
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by cannabis_sam on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:19PM (#27158586)
Would the same apply for someone who physically took something essential to national security hostage and then demanded money?

Would that change if they, for example, demanded the release of prisoners of a specific political persuasion?

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by reader_mode on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:17PM (#27159233)
Terrorism has to have some ideological agenda, which is what makes it dangerous - I doubt you'll see suicide bombers for hire.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by adamselene on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:25PM (#27159306)
Not more than once, anyway.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by brillyfresh on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:43PM (#27160450)
Only the ones who are bad at it.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by moftz on Saturday May 15, 2021 @08:44AM (#27164705)
Money can certainly help influence someone to wear a bomb vest, they don't need to actually believe in the cause. There could be someone out there that specializes in finding people in vulnerable financial situations that wouldn't mind blowing themselves up if it meant that their family was well taken care of.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by efuquen on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:18PM (#27159245)
> Would that change if they, for example, demanded the release of prisoners of a specific political persuasion?

How would that not be classified as a political motive?

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by imwillofficial on Saturday May 15, 2021 @12:29AM (#27162371)
"Would that change if they, for example, demanded the release of prisoners of a specific political persuasion?"

Yes.

"Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentional violence to achieve political aims." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by splithalf on Saturday May 15, 2021 @11:34AM (#27166124)
Can drug cartels engage in terrorism? That seems like a useful edge case. They are not ideological but maybe you could say they have political goals.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by imwillofficial on Saturday May 15, 2021 @08:32PM (#27170204)
For sure, it’s about the goals of the attack. If to cause terror, terrorism. If to gain money or advantage, crime.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by ngcc_hk on Friday May 14, 2021 @09:50PM (#27161555)
Control the language control everything. Good to hear from this clear mind.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by ChuckMcM on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:15PM (#27159209)
FWIW in June of 2011 the Pentagon issued a report that defined how 'cyber attacks' can be classified as an act of war. Part of the defense department review of threats against the US. However, they have to be plausibly tied to a state actor such as Russia or North Korea (to give two examples) The net result was that the Pentagon considers military response (both kinetic and cyber) as legal and sanctioned ways to respond to cyber attacks.

Generally though, the Justice department defines terrorism to be "the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives"

These ransomware attacks fall in the middle. They are 'deniable' by state actors as just crooks who happen to be within their borders. They certainly don't push any social objective other than to enrich the criminals. So that leaves them under the jurisdiction of law enforcement.

I have read anecdotal evidence that there are the equivalent to "Letters of Marque"[1] for Russian criminals who attack enemies of the Kremlin. They wouldn't completely qualify as the Russians aren't actually in a declared state of war (this works fine for North Korea) but conceptually if you accept that criminals are gonna crim, then pointing them at people you don't like at least keeps the damage outside of your area of concern.

In this particular case, the fairly rapid take down of these guys gives me pause. One wonders if the FBI and Interpol had Colonial pay with Bitcoin that they then traced to the destination wallets. And then working backward from there to the server infrastructure. That would be an interesting capability if it exists.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by moftz on Saturday May 15, 2021 @08:50AM (#27164735)
In the book Ghost Fleet, a billionaire obtains a letter of marque to go hijack a Chinese space station that is shooting down US satellites.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by imwillofficial on Saturday May 15, 2021 @12:36AM (#27162413)
Reading about the Letter of Marque was fascinating! Can you share your evidence of the Russian version in use today?
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by Arubis on Friday May 14, 2021 @01:56PM (#27157459)
I'd like to lean towards keeping terrorism defined essentially by intent--namely, the intent to use asymmetrical, threateningly or actually destructive, and emotionally activating ("terrorizing") means to manipulate a body politic or society towards a desired change.

If serious ransomware attacks are being conducted by state actors with the sole intent of causing damage, and we want to use powerful terminologies to describe them, "acts of war" seems a reasonable start.

Yes, this is semantics--but some of my concern here is that just freely tossing around "terrorism" gives cover for organizations not to be diligent in at least attempting to secure their networks and digital assets.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by bityard on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:58PM (#27160134)
You could treat ransomware attacks with the same seriousness as terrorism since the practical effects are similar, but the key point of terrorism is that it is politically motivated. So a terrorist group could launch a ransomware attack, but not all ransomware campaigns are terrorism.

The meanings of words is important; rational discussion is impossible when people shift commonly-accepted meanings and definitions to suit their agenda. It's an extremely common strategy in politics. And the word "terrorism" already received more than its fair share of this treatment quite thoroughly in the decade following 9/11.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by arcticbull on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:56PM (#27158320)
IMO terrorism is a "waffle word" that doesn't really have any meaning anymore. Originally a use of violence and intimidation against civilians in pursuit of political ideology, it's come to mean "people we don't like, who aren't state actors and don't fit conventional organized crime narratives."

I don't think it's necessary to staple the term to the action in order to take it seriously. It should, however, be taken seriously as the national security threat it is. For instance, climate change is a national security issue but oil executives, while distasteful, aren't terrorists.

I agree that many folks in the tech community (and especially here, though I don't know if they're overrepresented here) treat technology as platonic. That's not going to cut it moving forward. Technology that enables bad things in the world should be curtailed even if its "neat."

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by Inhibit on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:32PM (#27160376)
To your point these folks seem pretty well defined as organized crime. Or possibly foreign military if appropriate.

I'm not sure leaving infrastructure hanging out in the breeze can be compensated for by cracking down on personal liberty, however. Unless you're proposing cutting off international computer network integration.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by splithalf on Saturday May 15, 2021 @11:52AM (#27166300)
It’s a scare word and has always been. Like “conspiracy theory” it’s purpose is to stop thought and prevent thinking. It’s easily replaced with real words with concrete meanings. Are mass shootings terrorism? Since it’s widely used scare word to describe generally “bad acts towards groups of people” I think ransomware fits, but so does a lot of graffiti. Maybe it’s better to quibble over terms than to talk about how Bitcoin is responsible.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by watwut on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:01PM (#27159061)
Original definition did not required target to be civilians. Suicide attacks against military were called terrorism too.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by walshemj on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:45PM (#27158900)
Original its terror for terrors' sake to disrupt society not for individual aims is my understanding.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by citizenkeen on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:02PM (#27157548)
"Intentional threats to national security" are not ipso facto terrorist acts, but they should be addressed with the same level of severity.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by iratewizard on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:25PM (#27157898)
Agreed. To call it terrorism would water down the meaning of the word.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by babypuncher on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:21PM (#27159851)
That reasoning is really dumb. It's like saying school shootings are the ultimate stress test on a local police department. They sure are, but nobody in their right mind should ever argue that getting real world experience with one is ever a good thing.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by jcranmer on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:31PM (#27157976)
> I got downvoted for saying that maybe it's time to treat serious ransomware attacks (infrastructure, security, health, etc.) as terrorism - as in the sense that they're a threat to the national security.

A precise definition of terrorism tends to be difficult to pin down (mostly due to the difficulty of considering what is a legitimate asymmetrical warfare tactic by a nascent liberation movement versus an illegitimate terrorist act). But a general rule of thumb is that terrorism is a) violence b) directed at civilian populations c) to effect policy.

However, there are threats to national security that are not terrorist in nature; gang warfare in Mexico and Central America would be an example of such a threat.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by thaumasiotes on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:46PM (#27158907)
> I got downvoted for saying that maybe it's time to treat serious ransomware attacks (infrastructure, security, health, etc.) as terrorism - as in the sense that they're a threat to the national security.

Well... yes? That isn't a sense of the word "terrorism".

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by hinkley on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:14PM (#27160264)
As far as I'm concerned, ransomware attacks essentially fall into the same classification as highwaymen, bandits, and pirates. We tend to take those pretty seriously. Or at least, we did once they've robbed the wrong people.

Sounds like the ransomeware people finally robbed the wrong people.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by lovemenot on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:29PM (#27160745)
We have only DarkSide's word for what happened to them. No corroboration.

Not saying it's false, but the story doesn't ring true to me.

They appear to be sophisticated, yet they made the newbie error of keeping all the funds in a network accessible device, rather than a cold wallet. Really?

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by spoonjim on Saturday May 15, 2021 @03:31AM (#27163215)
One of the things that criminal gangs always need to be aware of is being defrauded by their own collaborators. So they often have to make sub-optimal choices on OpSec because they have to work with hostile actors.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by EamonnMR on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:08PM (#27160613)
No imagination required; this cyberattack on infrastructure masqueraded as ransomware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petya_(malware)
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by suifbwish on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:14PM (#27160657)
I will never understand why people link to paid articles in a public forum. There are too many other reliable sources for that exact info for anyone who isn’t wealthy to pay for dumb sites like that.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by EamonnMR on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:43PM (#27160843)
Fair enough, I just wanted to find an article that explained NotPetya. But wikipedia does a fine job.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by moftz on Saturday May 15, 2021 @08:56AM (#27164772)
You need to consider the motivation. Were the hackers just looking for a victim with deep pockets that would want to just hand over the money as soon as possible or were they actually looking to bring down a major pipeline? Giving the victim the chance to recover once the ransom is paid seems like it was more about the money. The attack could just have easily deleted everything from the network and totally crippled Colonial.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by IncRnd on Friday May 14, 2021 @10:39PM (#27161823)
> I got downvoted for saying that maybe it's time to treat serious ransomware attacks (infrastructure, security, health, etc.) as terrorism - as in the sense that they're a threat to the national security. But this kinda shows the response I was referencing to.

Terrorism has a legal definition, and something affecting national security is not the determining factor in calling something terrorism.

"Terrorism includes the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." [1]

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/0.85

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by turtletontine on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:17PM (#27160677)
I'd say ransomware is much closer to "piracy" than terrorism, but totally agree that this incident shows there's not much distance between this and cyber terrorism. (Even if it's just criminals accidentally throwing themselves into the spotlight.)

For say a nation engaging in cyber war, this could be flipped around: attacking basic infrastructure but disguising it as smaller groups of criminals trying to make a buck. Not sure how effective the disguise would be, but it could obviously do some serious damage.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by da39a3ee on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:15PM (#27159799)
The definition of terrorism isn't a "threat to national security". For example, your country could do something evil and wrong, grievously and unjustifiably violating the interests of an entity with a military, and be deservedly subject to military action, constituting a threat to national security. That wouldn't be "terrorism", it would just be "military action".
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by joe_the_user on Friday May 14, 2021 @04:23PM (#27159292)
Treating more and more attacks "as terrorism" has it's limits. The US may have awesome offensive cyber attack abilities but stopping widespread ransom wear requires systematic security, not threatening the bad guys, since there will always be more bad guys.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by concordDance on Friday May 14, 2021 @08:02PM (#27160975)
> I got downvoted for saying that maybe it's time to treat serious ransomware attacks (infrastructure, security, health, etc.) as terrorism - as in the sense that they're a threat to the national security

Um. Terrorism is basically never a threat to national security.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by arthurcolle on Friday May 14, 2021 @09:10PM (#27161342)
Threats to financial centers and satellite offices of major intelligence offices that are part of the US intelligence apparatus such as in 9/11 are definitely threats to national security. Not sure if you were being sarcastic?
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by concordDance on Saturday May 15, 2021 @06:25AM (#27163979)
That's an outlier as far as terrorism goes. And even 9/11 harmed US power only by causing it to spend trillions in Iraq.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by Ericson2314 on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:55PM (#27160526)
"terrorism" is an inconsistent categorization of things that we should just stop using.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by podgaj on Friday May 14, 2021 @05:07PM (#27159699)
Serious side effects, yes. I am homeless and live in my van in North Carolina and having to ration my gasoline waiting for the idiots to stop hoarding.

These people thought they were sticking it to the man but they were actually sticking it to people like me.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by imwillofficial on Saturday May 15, 2021 @09:08PM (#27170355)
I'm sorry for your situation. I'm living the RV life myself. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know. (In Virginia)
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by hellbannedguy on Saturday May 15, 2021 @01:51AM (#27162786)
I am getting close to homeless, and know people who never thought they would be without a home very scared.

I wish Biden realized how hard homeliness can be. Cities, and towns, need to stop ticketing vechicles that are parked overnight, and used as residences. I would like to see any federal, state, or local land, set aside for the homeless.

Hang in there.

[dead]
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by dang on Monday May 17, 2021 @12:53AM (#27180160)
"Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by papito on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:05PM (#27158434)
Some downvoting can be truly surprising, and one factor may be because HN is much more international, while I think of it as "American". It is Y-Combinator, after all.

Funny fact - one way to get down votes on HN is to say something negative about that shit-tier human Peter Thiel. Apparently becoming rich off of venture capital makes you automatically a good human being.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by vkou on Friday May 14, 2021 @01:55PM (#27157457)
Terrorism is a non-state use of violence for political aims.

Ransomware is non-state, not violent, and is done for economic, not political aims.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by waihtis on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:14PM (#27157736)
> non-state > economic, not political

There’s a well known phenonenom of a certain large nation harbouring cybercrime gangs and keeping them on the government leash. Their economic activity benefits the governments political agenda. Ergo all conditions are true.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by vkou on Friday May 14, 2021 @02:29PM (#27157957)
There's also a well-known phenomena of large nations harboring multi-national corporations that break the law in other nations they operate in.

That doesn't mean that the large, developed nations in question are engaging in organized crime.

Taking advantage of regulatory arbitrage does not mean that their government is in collusion with them.

If it did, then we could pile a lot of crimes at the feet of Western governments. Some mining firm violently puts down a strike in Central America? Clearly, we can conclude that Canada/the US is engaging in terrorism! [1]

[1] https://digitalcommons.osgoode.yorku.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?... [2]

[2] 28 Canadian companies, 44 deaths, 30 of which were targeted extra-judicial killings. Are we going to lay those at the feet of Parliament, too? [3]

[3] Or do we have one set of standards for Russia, and another for our own behaviour?

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by waihtis on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:10PM (#27158478)
There is no sense to your comparison when you’re putting a criminal enterprise (which exists to do harm and harm only) and legitimate business into the same bucket.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by vkou on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:19PM (#27158579)
A 'legitimate business' that occasionally dabbles in murder is also a criminal enterprise.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by waihtis on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:23PM (#27158638)
Agree to a certain extent - executives in such companies need to pay the price on their actions, whether involed directly or via a proxy
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by fencepost on Friday May 14, 2021 @03:34PM (#27158781)
Ransomware is non-state

Are there no ransomware operations linked to North Korea? I was under the impression that there was some level of activity there to maintain supplies of globally-usable currency.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by Forbo on Friday May 14, 2021 @06:31PM (#27160367)
Last I heard, they were more oriented toward cryptocurrency trojans and botnet mining operations, but I could be mistaken.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by vkou on Friday May 14, 2021 @07:22PM (#27160705)
North Korea is... A special case, and it is still quite unlike any other country in the world.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by zepto on Saturday May 15, 2021 @11:45AM (#27166236)
That’s true of the US, Russia, and China too.
Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by vkou on Sunday May 16, 2021 @03:55AM (#27171997)
Neither of those countries have the government responsible for all economic activity that happens through the internet.

The Great Firewall is likewise, not remotely similar to the restrictions placed on internet access in North Korea.

Re:DarkSide ransomware gang quits after servers, Bitcoin sta... by zepto on Sunday May 16, 2021 @12:58PM (#27175037)
True, if that’s the point you intended to make.