“Game” is an overloaded term that encompasses too many types of experiences.

Relatively few people want to play games like Fortnite on their phones. A great many people want to play crossword puzzles.

Stardew Valley is also a fantastic experience on mobile. Other than missing co-op, it's exactly the same game as on PC. It's been a great distraction on long plane trips.

Just want to point out although I was once dismissive of mobile gaming, there is a whole mostly-untapped market for genuinely great video games on mobile despite the current market being flooded with low-effort/exploitative options.

It isn't the same game as on PC as it does not force you to complete a day to save.

At first it was, but this didnt work well on mobile because the players themselves were mobile and did not have dedicated time to deal with this game mechanic. But by fixing it for mobile with backgrounding and automatic state saving, it breaks the core incentive of the game.

Just my two cents.

Core incentive to play a game should always be to have fun while doing so.

In my opinion, not being forced to complete an in-game day in one sitting, but rather at your own leisure, matches perfectly the chill and leisurely gameplay of Stardew Valley.

But is that actually an issue if the people playing it are having a good time and like the game that way?

I never opined on whether it’s an issue.

“Is game same in a fundamentally way, yes/no.” No more, no less.

I forgot about that, but I actually prefer it. But I'm also curious what the core incentive is that you feel this change breaks.

Urgency, planning, consequences

Do you go crystal farm, or do you go into town and form a relationship, or routine watering of your farm, or …

You are still required to sleep regularly to get energy back.

I think people are conditioned to expect games with an "exploitative" ad-based or in-app purchase model. The conditioning to not expect an upfront cost to purchase is reinforced by the huge number of low/no effort apps resulting from the low barrier to entry. People don't want to pay for apps with little or no utility, lots of bugs, etc., and that's the vast majority of apps.

It's going to take a big player having the fortitude sustain the marketing (and potential losses) to sell an app that doesn't fit in this paradigm.

Most people don't see them as exploitative to begin with. No more so than they think about how much exploitative work was done to make a movie behind the scenes.

For a good 80+%, it's a simple time waster to play for an hour between the day. Not a gambling simulator, not a hardcore grinding MMO-lite. And if they think something is a ripoff, they have literal thousands of other games they can try in minutes.

I agree with the point about game being overloaded, but the statement that relatively few people want to play games like fortnite on their phones is clearly false. PubG alone has tens of millions of people who play it exclusively on mobile, and it is very much a game like fortnite.

In developing world, mobile gaming is bigger than console and PC due the price difference in PC/Console and mobiles. I think this trend will continue. It is a whole different world out there.

Consoles are cheaper than mobiles.

The average price of mobiles is $317 currently, which means the median price is quite a bit lower. https://www.statista.com/statistics/788557/global-average-se...

More importantly, though, the average console game is 50 bucks, while the average mobile game is free.

You wouldn't be getting a top-end mobile phone though, right?

You can get a PS3 for next to nothing, and games also cost hardly anything. No online subscription required either.

Go down to PS2 and PS1, and you can get all of it essentially for free.

That's the case in the US, because lots of people bought them, so they're available second-hand.

for 317 you can build relatively decent PC without GPU, so add something like 200$ and you can have decent setup for maybnewest games like Cyberpunk on mid settings

I bought GTX 970 and Ryzen 7 1700 for 240$, but it was 2 years ago

> for 317 you can build

Or you can just walk into a shop and leave with a new phone.

Three-digit dollar amounts and the developing world often don't go well together. A phone can be had for comparatively cheaply, in comparison.

Well, people from poor countries probably don't need to play newest AAA games.

>A phone can be had for comparatively cheaply, in comparison.

Some phones definitely can, same with some computers, the thing is whether you're comfortable with trade-offs.

Computer unlike smartphone can be relatively easily built with used parts.

In the early 2000s you could reasonably expect people to have access to a desktop computer of some description and this advice would've been somewhat valid. In 2021, nobody really assumes you have access to a desktop computer anymore, but we do assume people have access to a mobile device of some description. In that world, a $300 mobile is a much saner investment than a $300 PC for most people.

You need a smartphone anyway. Console is the third computing device you'll buy (if at all).

If you count only flagship mobiles, sure. Many outside the US and on low incomes don't buy those, because you can get something very decent for less than $200 (which is way less than a console) and it will still handle games.

Switch is okay, but if you go for PS5 or XBOX, you will need a TV, also some space to store and use it, and dedicated time for playing. We haven't talked about the cost of games yet. Overall, consoles will be too expensive for developing world, mobiles is something you already have, and games are mostly free.

Also, a lot of what passes for games on mobile phones are little more than addictions that strip you off your money.

The consoles would never allow them and even if they did, people don’t mindlessly get addicted to crap when playing on a console like they do on their phones.

> The consoles would never allow them

They allow Fortnite[1], don't they? Or more recently Genshin Impact, which is a pure "gatcha" game - as "mobile" as it gets - and is probably doing very well[2] on PS4/5.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPHPNgIihR0

[2] https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/genshin-impact-mobile-reve...

Edit: Oh, I totally forgot about the original console "strip you of your money" game: Fifa[3].

[3] https://screenrant.com/fifa-ultimate-team-ea-total-revenue-6...

Lots of mobile "games" are basically a casino, but the currency is time and you don't ever win anything. This is to the point that when I open older (pre-microtransaction) games on my PC, I'm momentarily disoriented because those mechanics are missing and I've gotten so used to them because they are so ubiquitous.

I am with you except they are absolutely allowed on consoles. Just look at the modern FIFA and NBA2K games. They are some of the worst free to play (that you pay $60 for!) experiences ever created. Consoles also had the EA Star Wars battlefront games that were fairly exploitative.

RTS are quite good to play on phones and tablets, as another example.

> RTS are quite good to play on phones

Probably one of the most ridiculous things I read ever. For starter there aren’t even any game worth called a RTS on mobile. Screen size and lack of keyboard means that any real RTS experience is impossible. How playable Wargames: Red Dragon or Age of Empire II would be on mobile? They won’t be at all, and that one of the reasons they aren’t available on smartphones.

Enjoy your ridiculous reading, while I have fun playing my set of RTS games.

https://www.phonearena.com/news/10-best-real-time-strategy-r...

Don't like them? I don't care.

Thanks for sharing. I had no idea stuff like C&C, Total War and CoH are on mobile now. That's insane.

Don't be fooled by C&C Rivals. It's closer to something like Clash Royale than PC C&C. Loot boxes and micro transactions galore with shallow, bite-sized, gameplay.

Bad North is a great game.

Wow that sure is a blatant ripoff of Dune 2000.

Just to clarify, are you saying Fortnite made as much as half the total of the e tire gaming industry on iOS?

No. This is what I'm pointing out: the entire video game industry generated about $175 billion in revenue last year. Of that, about half (43%) came from mobile gaming.

Here is a more direct quote from statistia:

" In 2020, smartphone games generated approximately 74.9 billion U.S. dollars in annual revenue, accounting for 43 percent of the global gaming market during the measured period. Console games were ranked second with 51.2 billion U.S. dollars in global revenue."

I get the impression that money spent on mobile games is from scamming parents in children's games with dark patterns that lead young children to making in app purchases.

I think looking at the number of folks playing Fortnite on each platform and comparing that gives a better idea of where gamers prefer to play games.

My understanding is that whales are generally adults that have been taken in by the extremely addictive mechanics of the games. Like an old lady that dumps her pension into penny slots every day.

Consider: visual novels, even when entirely linear, probably count as “games” for mobile sales. They’re damn popular, are often episodic or series or have DLC to drive more sales, et c. And that’s just one kind of non-“gamer” game that’s huge on mobile.

Visual novels are classified as a game on every store I've seen, be it mobile, pc or console.

If you have a source for that impression, I'd be very interested to see it.

> gamers prefer to play games

most of the money being made in mobile gaming is coming from people who would not self-identify as "gamers". If you're just considered about where "gamers" want to game, then sure. But that's excluding a massive (and the fastest-growing) segment of the video games industry.

Gamers is a bit silly loaded term these days. Who do you exclude as not-gamers from the group that likes to play games?

That's a really good point and question.

Anyone who plays a game is a gamer, that's fair - so let me clarify my assumptions:

- I think more folks play games for longer on consoles/PCs compared to mobile devices

- I think mobile games punch above their weight in sales due to dark patterns and scammy business practices

I could be wrong

Most of the donateshitgames are targeted for adults with money actually. There is built-in socialized competition on donates. In every guild/group/party without donating You will be outsider and a person that pull whole team down.

Good god is that depressing.

The fact that the cheap, shallow, and manipulative tripe that fills the App Store & Play Store to the brim are pulling so many players and so many dollars is genuinely depressing.

The top games (Among Us, Roblox) aren't AAA but they aren't that. The most popular gacha games I know of (Granblue, FGO) are actually extremely over-detailed if anything.

OP is implying that people are playing on phones because they have them, not because it’s a good experience.

This could be especially true of a core (not casual) game like a shooter.

Maybe kids are doing purchases on the phone but playing on a computer, inflating the phone "market share"?

Are you sure those revenues are coming from competitive games like Fortnite and not from playing cards worth of App Store gift cards that gacha addicts are stacking up