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Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by PragmaticPulp on Saturday December 19, 2020 @10:04PM (#25483479)
I know we're basically comparing anecdotes, but I've been surprised at how much more I've come to trust my windows workstation than my Mac in the past few years. I can't actually remember the last time my Windows workstation crashed outright (if ever?) but my Mac locks up at least 2-3 times per week. I also have to be extremely careful to avoid high memory pressure under Big Sur now, otherwise Finder spirals into a restart loop that can only be fixed with a hard reset. I also had to give up my Mac Thunderbolt setup because I've been fighting the same Thunderbolt crash that many people have been complaining about since Catalina was released in 2019 ( https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/16/gameover/ ).

Meanwhile, my Windows machine just keeps chugging along, drama free. All of my hardware and peripherals work just fine with it, but I often have to play the plug-unplug game with audio peripherals until video playback works on my Mac.

Five years ago I never would have guessed I'd be writing an HN comment praising my Windows machine and lamenting all of the issues with my Mac, but here we are. It's downright depressing to think of all the time I've lost in the past year waiting for my MacBook to reboot or replugging USB cables until everything works after I wake it from sleep.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by 2ion on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:43AM (#25485867)
Not even to mention the willfully broken font rendering on all peripherals that are not "retina enough" since a few versions ago. Using my work macbook with my trusty 16:10 monitors with 1920x1200 resolution in the home office is a literal eye sore since it's impossible to get a clear font image. The company had to send over a retina-enough screen...

The worst font rendering Linux ever had is still better what macOS does today to non-apple-blessed displays. It's a blurry mess.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by STRML on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:10AM (#25485984)
If you're having color banding, you may need to force RGB on your external monitor [1]. I had to do this a few years ago, it massively improved the picture.

That said, I was in disbelief that this was a problem that both was common enough to be all over the Internet, and so involved to fix. Amazes me that OSX doesn't simply have an advanced setting for RGB/YPrPb, and instead requires that you boot into Recovery Mode (!!!) to fix it!

1. https://spin.atomicobject.com/2018/08/24/macbook-pro-externa...

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by garaetjjte on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:22AM (#25486051)
That's.. very weird to pick chroma subsampled format by default when RGB or 4:4:4 is available.

Anyway, low-dpi screens on macOS are so blurry because it doesn't do font hinting.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bufferoverflow on Sunday December 20, 2020 @11:58PM (#25492250)
Windows does subsampling by default. The whole point of subsampling is that it looks better than just 4:4:4.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by TurkTurkleton on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:50PM (#25491036)
At least in Big Sur, you can just place the override in /Library/Displays/Contents/Resources/Overrides instead of /System/Library/[...]. This may work in earlier versions as well, but it equally wouldn't surprise me if it was only added to Big Sur because of the Signed System Volume thing.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by Hammershaft on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:37PM (#25488442)
I can vouch that MacOS font rendering really became an eyesore on desktop monitors became after I updated to Catalina. It genuinely results in an inability to parse letters when using certain common fonts, and next to Windows and Linux it is by far the worst of the three.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by eznzt on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:49AM (#25485896)
"apple-blessed displays" means "displays that have a pixel density that is appropriate to the year 2020", not necessarily screens that were manufactured by apple
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by nolok on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:24AM (#25486062)
That's beside the point.

There are a lot of non high dpi devices out there. The majority of screens are. Whether it's your personal one (and you can't or don't want to change it) or a professional one (and your company may not want or be able to justify changing dozens of screens), you need to use them.

It's possible to display properly and cleanly on them, everyone else does it. It's not as great as on a high dpi obviously, but it's perfectly sevicable for its need.

Apple with osx is the only major os that fails to do it, either through incompetence, malice or just pure disdain for their users facing that scenario.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by leetcrew on Sunday December 20, 2020 @09:54AM (#25486576)
I'm pretty sure it's deliberate. not as in intentionally punishing users, but intentionally not bothering to test their stuff with any third party equipment (excluding the blessed belkin maybe). if I had to distill the apple brand into a single phrase, it would be "my way or the highway". their way might be pretty good if you buy all the way in, but if not, you can go fuck yourself.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by mr_toad on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:18PM (#25490883)
> Apple with osx is the only major os that fails to do it, either through incompetence, malice or just pure disdain for their users facing that scenario.

It’s because of cost involved in maintaining the code that can push the hinting through the various layers of the graphics stack. Coupled with Apple’s culture of ditching old technology at the first opportunity.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by yowlingcat on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:59AM (#25487128)
> "displays that have a pixel density that is appropriate to the year 2020"

As opposed to what other year? Color me naive, but I thought it was supposed to be the function rather than the form that we were supposed to make those kinds of comparisons about. What about a low pixel density is /not/ appropriate to the year 2020?

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by colonwqbang on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:42PM (#25488944)
Yeah haha it's not like 1080p is still by far the most common resolution for screens, TVs, projectors that you might need to connect your macbook to.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by josephg on Saturday December 19, 2020 @11:08PM (#25483780)
No idea if this will help, but I had some instability on my macbook last year after getting my screen replaced. I ran memtest86 on the machine (using a UEFI USB image) and after a few hours it reported memory errors. I took it back to the genius bar and explained the situation. After reproducing the problem using their own internal tool they replaced the motherboard for free of charge and I haven't had any problems since then.

Your RAM might be working fine, but with crashes and lockups I think its always worth checking. Life is too short to put up with faulty hardware.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by Inviz on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:25AM (#25484334)
I have had exactly same issue, though with third party service. They replaced the screen, and when I came home it froze one time, and started beeping 3 times indicating ram problems. Because it was iMac, i had a chance to rearrange RAMs to boot up but it still was freezing up at times. I ran memcheck, found errors, and then figured out which ram planks was faulty.

The thing is that the issue started long before that, my Blender app would crash in tens of times a day, and same with Solidworks on windows.

So yeah, i recommend running memtest and replacing ram if necessary.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by segfaultbuserr on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:09AM (#25484744)
I've fixed two MacBooks with "faulty" RAM for family friends, it was a funny experience...

The first one just needed a cleanup and some new thermal pastes. But afterwards, when I was test driving the laptop, I found the machine started to crash randomly - the OS was a fresh install. And later, I found whenever I put the laptop on the metal chassis on my PC (it was on the same table), it could trigger a kernel panic. Oh no, did I accidentally shorted something on the motherboard to the chassis? I reopened the machine and reseated the board but it didn't solve the problem. I also tried to reproduce the problem with a multimeter probe, but it didn't work. I got the final breakthrough while searching the web using the laptop while lying on a sofa - whenever my lap kicked the bottom cover, it would crash instantly!

The DIMMs came loose. Reseating it fixed the problem - the machine was previously dropped, which also explained the cracked plastic I saw on the battery.

Coincidentally, one day later, another family friend (with absolute no relation or knowledge about the former one) sent me a message, showing a MacBook with random screen corruptions. I said "you're out of luck, better to get a replacement from Apple." Later, I was also told that screen corruption was not the only problem - whenever a spot near the keyboard was punched, it would promptly crash! I couldn't stop laughing, "Okay, just send it to me, it's a 5 minute fix..." And yes, the machine was previously dropped by kids.

Nowadays, most MacBooks come with soldered RAMs. But if your machine has sockets, make sure to reseat the RAM and swap the slots first before declaring the death of your motherboard or your RAM.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bzzzt on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:06AM (#25484943)
Seems Apple managed to eliminate a major source of defects by removing the DIMM connectors from the MacBooks.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by barrkel on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:19AM (#25484999)
Or they couldn't figure out a way to make the slots more reliable (or thinner, I guess), and as a bonus locked in higher memory upgrade prices.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by diamondo25 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:50AM (#25485349)
It also reduces the amount of space taken up by the connectors and such, and have a better testing suite without manual assembly, that can give false positives.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by matsemann on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:00AM (#25485139)
Yes. Every MacOS update is a shitshow of things that stop working. My company always have to send out a message to everyone asking them not to update when a new OS version is out, until it's been tested some more. Always break something.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by drzaiusapelord on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:20AM (#25492566)
We do this in IT for windows. A mac update is exactly like a win10 version update, and both require testing before rolling out. We spend months testing Windows10 version updates. You just don't see it because its all behind the scenes. Right now we're committed to ONE win10 upgrade a year due to this.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by ganoushoreilly on Monday December 21, 2020 @06:02AM (#25493817)
That sounds like a security nightmare. How do you handle out of bound security patches?
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by nix23 on Monday December 21, 2020 @07:06AM (#25494140)
He probably meant feature updates, security updates was at-least for us, 2-3 days of testing.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by amanaplanacanal on Monday December 21, 2020 @07:25AM (#25494266)
Separating feature updates from security updates was one of the best things Microsoft ever did.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by nix23 on Monday December 21, 2020 @07:31AM (#25494304)
True, but it was nearly a "have to" for a rolling release used in big enterprise.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by kyriakos on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:24AM (#25484329)
At some point we all need to understand there's no single perfect platform. Windows works for me so does Linux but both have their issues. I still useful work on both of them. I have very little experience with macos but from what I read and hear from friends it's not all perfect either. We are a point where OSs do so many things which means there's a huge surface of bugs can appear on. What's probably more important is, how much those bugs affect your work and how quickly the "vendor" is fixing them once discovered.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by qz2 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:19AM (#25485212)
I get the feeling those issues are over on the Mac now. Over the years I’ve had issues that are shockingly similar to my PC stuff on the Mac. I have concluded this is possibly the underlying architecture complexity. Most of the PC architecture that is shared is a massive stack of sticky tape and string piled up over the last 20 years and I think that leaks out into the OS. I’m surprised it works for any vendors at all. It’s not as if Linux doesn’t have a ton of problems in that space either.

The only thing I can say is that with the M1 Mac mini I have it’s the only computer I haven’t found any issues with at all yet and I’ve been using it since November 26th 100% of the time. Absolutely no issues at all.

Now windows is mostly reliable from the hardware side of things I’d you are lucky but the software is broken as fuck. Nothing works reliably or consistently. For over a month now Alt-tab on 20H2 has been randomly changing window ordering as an example breaking over 20 years of muscle memory. Their own mail client stops receiving mail twenty times a day. I’m not even going to start the book-sized rant on how unreliable their development stack is. And yesterday I spent an hour trying to delete a file which wouldn’t go away. It’s just motivational poison at the end of the day. Death by a thousand paper cuts.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by noizejoy on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:26AM (#25484338)
I’ve battled application, driver, operating system and hardware issues on every platform I’ve used from mainframes to smartphones.

That doesn’t mean that there haven’t been better or worse times with platforms I’ve used over the decades.

But it does mean that no platform is exempt from flaws or even dark times.

Individual mileages vary wildly depending on a combination of general quality of the product at any stretch of time, personal use patterns at that time, and blind, random luck.

And I’m still using 3 or 4 major platforms daily, depending how you count. None are worth total praise. And none totally suck either. As with many relationships “it’s complicated” :-)

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by prox on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:37AM (#25485577)
That can be said, but for as long as I know Mac, it has had these lock up problems.

Last year I worked at a location with a Mac on my left, Win10 on my right. Same software / jobs. Mac hangs 3 times a day. Both machines were very well tended to.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by aranelsurion on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:55PM (#25489893)
Last week I came to my Windows PC to see it was completely locked up. Until that I haven't noticed it, but at some point in my history with Windows boxes, crashes and issues became a rare notable event. I started relying on them. I was surprised.

Alas, it turns out my OS drive was busted. Not Windows' fault. Before that, more than a year ago I had some crashes with Windows, by then it was my GPU dying out. It's all anecdata, and it still doesn't feel right to praise Windows for its stability (guess everyome from earlier days would feel the same), but hey, in last few years my Windows OSes outlasted the hardware they worked on.

In the meantime I can't count how many times I had to reboot my Macs (two of them) for one reason or another. Crashes after wakeups, permanent visual bugs that only get solved after reboots, weird slowndowns, Mac's disdain for external monitors and adaptors, etc etc. Back then Mac was the it-just-works machine, nowadays I would attribute that to nothing but Windows.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by game_the0ry on Saturday December 19, 2020 @10:28PM (#25483607)
Fair enough, but to be clear - I am not saying that apple software and products are free from problems. Far from it - butterfly keyboard, for example.

I am just saying Apple, for me, has the most reliable and consistent experience. And I have tried most options:

- windows, linux, and macos for my personal and work machines

- android, ios, and even windows phone (remember that?)

So far, may experience has been the opposite of yours - my work laptop is a 2015 macbook pro 15 and still performs really well (no crashes), but I have BSODed a couple of times on my windows 10 laptop I bought last year. Doesn't say much, I know.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by cwyers on Saturday December 19, 2020 @11:36PM (#25483895)
I don't really know if this is a head's up comparison -- Apple maintains very tight control over their hardware compared to Windows. So you're trading off, in that Microsoft has to manage an ecosystem with much greater complexity, but you have a blessed path for using Nvidia graphics cards.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by fakedang on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:18AM (#25484570)
This. MacOS fans will sing praises of Apple, while discounting that Apple messes up even though they have very few hardware types to service compared to Windows. And they still screw it up big time - I haven't moved to BigSur for this reason.

That being said, Windows 10 cannot be in the business of "ship and keep calm", due to the number of businesses and governments relying on Windows.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:18AM (#25485207)
This. I also find it hard to believe how Apple can screw up bigtime with buggy OS releases considering they make and own the full hardware-software stack which has way less variety than what Linux and Windows have to deal with.

Mac fans have defended Apple saying that "QA is expansive and they can't afford it", as if Apple is some low budget indie app developer in an incubator and not this trillion dollar goliath with insane margins.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by salawat on Sunday December 20, 2020 @12:18PM (#25487794)
Well... They aren't wrong on QA being expensive. The real problem though is you can't measure the savings of a prevented problem. Drives most of us that do it for a living nuts, because all the MBA types love metrics, but don't generally have the imagination to take the numbers and go 'Now imagine all those people got bitten by X.' They won't, but if they did, think of the tarnish.

Being a QA is the most thankless way of making the world better imaginable.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:25PM (#25510802)
>Being a QA is the most thankless way of making the world better imaginable.

As a fellow dev, you might be getting ahead of yourself. I think there are plenty more professions that go thankless and that are actually making the world a better place.

I hope this doesn't offend you but the thankless garbage men or street cleaners on my neighborhood have a bigger impact on my life than the people who do QA on the apps I use on a daily basis.

If github, slack and outlook stop working I basically have that time off and go outside for a coffee. If my garbagemen stop picking up my smelly garbage, then I'm gonna have a pretty bad day.

Again, no offense, just stating the facts.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by AsyncAwait on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:14AM (#25485190)
This is what I tell every macOS user looking to try Linux. Pick hardware that is officially supported.

In every Linux thread on HN, macOS fans seem to disregard the fact that Linux has to support so many more hardware configs entirely. In fact they'd compare the experience of them installing Ubuntu on a $300 Best Buy laptop they got for $150 on Black Friday and wonder why the experience isn't up to par compared to their 2019 decked out $3000 MBP.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by beardyw on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:44AM (#25485869)
I fully agree. I ducked out of Windows when Win7 support ended early this year and loaded Ubuntu on my aged laptop. My experience was ok enough. When it finally died in the summer I bought a well specced laptop loaded with Ubuntu from a Linux specialist (Entroware here in UK), and even now I am knocked out by how great the experience is. Now I would never want to go back to Windows.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by LexGray on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:23AM (#25484792)
Apple is very much a consumer level company. I’ve seen reviews quality wise that they are average with hardware failure rates.

They do try... for instance I’ve heard the reason they always charge more for RAM is labor costs from running additional tests to fail chips other companies ship.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:52AM (#25484909)
>I’ve heard the reason they always charge more for RAM is labor costs from running additional tests to fail chips other companies ship.

Which is false. Apple uses the same off the shelf DRAM chips from established manufacturers found in any PC/Phone/Laptop.

Unlike Flash storage, there is really not really bad performing DRAM per-se, just defective, And apple is no guarantee of free from defects with RAM fault in MACs being as common as in the rest of the PC industry.

The extra price is just the Apple tax.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bzzzt on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:13AM (#25484971)
I don’t know, but if you’re shipping mainboards with soldered on RAM it could be worth it to test the modules before soldering to reduce the amount of returns where you have to replace the entire board.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by ChuckNorris89 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:17AM (#25484987)
Dram, Flash, CPUs, GPUs and most other high-margin chips made by established manufacturers(Intel, Micron, Samsung, TI, NXP, etc.) are tested to some degree at the fab before packaging. It's very common in the semiconductor industry.

That doesn't mean parts with some defects don't sneak into the final products but the rate is low enough that testing each chip you receive is not monetary feasible for consumer products so you just test the final assembled product to a degree, but even then, brand new Apple products are no strangers to having their mainboards replaced for a defective chip in the warranty period. Just ask Luis Rossmann or people working at the genius bar. That's why everyone recommends you get Apple care.

So the theory that Apple thoroughly tests each chip that goes in their products is false. It would be too expensive and eat into their fat margins.

What you do test, is samples from each batch you receive, to make sure your supplier did not pull a bait and switch and replaced your contracted parts with lower quality ones under the same part number and hope you would not notice but this is more common on low margin parts and Chinese suppliers are notorious for this since for them it's just regular business practice and see nothing wrong with it.

Source: my career as a hardware engineer.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by sokoloff on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:28AM (#25485532)
We did a study on how often we used AppleCare vs the cost and, to no one’s surprise, AppleCare is not financially worthwhile on computers if the small chance of having to replace the hardware won’t be a significant hurdle. (It doesn’t cover liquid damage, which are a significant fraction of early hardware replacement.)

We do BYOD on phones, so don’t have data there.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by Fnoord on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:40AM (#25485855)
In USA you don't have 2 years warranty as consumer; in EU you do. And even on top of that a defect in hardware might even be covered after 2 years.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by indigo945 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:42AM (#25484871)
Apple may be a consumer level company, but then, business level hardware has ceased to exist anyway. Thinkpads are not what they used to be in terms of reliability.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by cpach on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:47AM (#25485080)
It’s a shame really. Thinkpads used to be built like tanks.

A friend of mine was once stationed in a jungle in South America. Most laptops couldn’t handle the humidity there. His IBM Thinkpad was the only one that held up.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by weego on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:47AM (#25484894)
Pretty much the entire music industry would disagree with you on apple being consumer level
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by _trampeltier on Saturday December 19, 2020 @10:40PM (#25483673)
On work, I never had so much trouble, like with my HP ZBook and Win10. It had already once a complete reset, but still, I have a lot of trouble. Special since the new BIOS update about a month ago, it crashes once or twice a day again.

In theorie Win10 looks nice. I tryed to upgrade one of my notebooks at home from Win7 to Win10. Privacy is one thing, but CandyCrush and things like that, was a totaly show stopper for me. I mean, I even have the Pro licences, but so much bloat .. So since the, I'm Linux only at home. I will never upgrade to Win 10.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by foepys on Saturday December 19, 2020 @11:30PM (#25483857)
HP's drivers are the worst I came across. We got HP Elitebook notebooks at work a few years ago and replaced them with Lenovo and Dell because the HPs kept crashing and slowing down over time. Their "utility" software like HP Sure Click slowed the whole system down and turned into nagware. There were at least 3 HP programs hogging the tray area and made discovery of my actually wanted tray icons hard. On top of that the fans just didn't spin down, even after a reinstall, so I were forced to work with constant fan noise in the background.

I never felt so miserable using a notebook before and dreaded each day I had to use it.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bserge on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:08AM (#25485430)
Secret to a (semi)happy life with HP - Identify the hardware and install drivers directly from the manufacturer (or any other company, like Lenovo heh) and do not install any HP software, ever.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by _trampeltier on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:51AM (#25486188)
On work I have no rights to do that. There are hundrets of ZBooks in the company and every one has different troubles with it. Is it to much to ask it has just to run troublefree. We all just wanna use it. It just has to work, like a car or whatever. computers are just tools to make our life more easy. I'm to old to spend more time with my computer on work just for fun. My time on work cost money.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bserge on Sunday December 20, 2020 @09:59AM (#25486612)
Oof, yeah, without a proper configuration, they can be a pain in the ass. Out of the box, brand new, they overheat already. HP software is absolute trash.

I literally use drivers from Lenovo because the ones HP provides are like 5 years old and they don't plan on updating them.

Updating the BIOS is like playing Russian roulette, they seem to introduce more bugs than they fix.

But the hardware itself is nice, I've been using HP workstations for more than a decade. Quality has gone down somewhat (less metal, more plastic, less durable compared to early Elitebooks imo), but they're still nice machines.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by _trampeltier on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:13AM (#25484545)
Yes, HP seems really like worse machines. I just set the max. CPU to 80% because of the costant fan noise. He is quiet now but also slower (of course). Also just the sound driver is around 500MB in RAM, serious? Lucky me I have 32GB. Since I work in a large company, I have nothing to say about the computer brand. At home I'm a happy Fujitsu user since many years.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bserge on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:10AM (#25485442)
Notebookfancontrol works with HP ZBooks G1-G2 (same controller as the Elitebook 8760w), you can use that. But it won't fix their terrible cooling system.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by pmontra on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:08AM (#25485164)
ZBook 15 here (2014) and no such problems. I always used it with Ubuntu so they seem related to Windows. Strange because one expects that HP optimize their hw and sw for Windows.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bserge on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:11AM (#25485453)
Windows 10 has a lot of issues on the ZBook G1/G2. It's even worse when installed under UEFI, so it could be HP's shoddy firmware. Windows 7 is rock stable, though.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by GordonS on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:41AM (#25486132)
I have a ZBook 15 G3, from 2016, I think. No stability issues at all (running Windows 10, but the cooling is crap, which in turn means the fan noise is really annoying.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by scrps on Sunday December 20, 2020 @12:53PM (#25488109)
I worked IT at a newspaper a few years back and we instituted a strict "never HP" (I believe we had one HP printer that got grandfathered in) policy, so strict in fact that when we were looking to upgrade our fleet of laptops the company president (in his defense he was trying to be helpful) walked into our office area and told my manager he found a great deal on a palette of HP laptops. My manager, myself, and two co-workers all spontanously shouted "No!" in such perfect unison we considered forming an acapella group just by channeling our hatred of HP. The president backed out the door quietly and avoided eye contact with us for the rest of the day.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by Kwpolska on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:22AM (#25485219)
Candy Crush et al. is uninstallable with three clicks. And that’s it, slightly annoying, but it won’t slow down your machine or anything.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by modderation on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:01PM (#25488644)
It's not as straightforward when you're trying to create a master image for your corporate machines, though. Several steps [1] are required to properly remove it from all users on the machine after it is silently auto-installed or auto-updated, and this requires trawling through the error log to find the root cause [2].

1: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-sg/troubleshoot/windows-client...

2: https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/2c...

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by corty on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:46AM (#25486165)
Install 0 clicks, uninstall 3 clicks plus slight annoyance. Multiply by whatever autoinstall Windows Store crap Microsoft is pushing at any given time.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by _trampeltier on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:54AM (#25486209)
I'm to old, to tired of computers to search for such things. Computers are just a tool. MS say 'you can't do it' I say I don't use it.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by keithnz on Saturday December 19, 2020 @10:17PM (#25483532)
same, I often end up having to force reboot my mac as it seems to do strange things and freeze up. My windows machine is going strong, haven't really had a problem for a long long time
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by RobertDeBord on Saturday December 19, 2020 @10:22PM (#25483568)
Same. To the point where I finally gave on my mbp and built a windows pc. Network (wifi and ethernet) dying repeatedly and at random, only coming back after a reboot, got to be too much when working remote. Random lock ups, I got more kernel panics in the last year than I have in the last 5 ish prior combined. Not reliable and it feels like the OS is sacrificing stability for features I don't want/need.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by domano on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:24PM (#25488814)
Finally i see others with this Thunderbolt panic issue, which causes me to disconnect my USB C Dock before going to sleep.

In my company i am the only one, but it is not due to a faulty Dock since it works with Windows and Linux.

I had like 30 crashes until i could reliably avoid them.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by egwor on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:30AM (#25485543)
I have the exact opposite experience. We're running an older version of Office (2016?) at work with Windows 7. Thse are supported by MS via the extended support contracts. It will be upgraded shortly. Basically I get blue screens, rendering issues, slowness, freezing, crashing, random glitches. I regularly lose emails. The changes to Outlook are abysmal too. When a meeting invite I've accepted is amended (e.g. a 'Starting in 5 minutes email or update'), the calendar invite is no longer accepted so the reminder doesn't pop up. Whomever decided that un-accepted invites shouldn't pop up, has caused so much upset, tears and hate. I would describe my windows machine as entirely useless. It has got so bad that I use my iPhone to respond to emails and to use the calendar features. I've been considering learning some .NET to write a pop up app that is always on top so that when there's a meeting it shows up. Has anyone done that? It seems pretty basic.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by spydum on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:48AM (#25485888)
Or you know, upgrade to windows 10, since windows 7 has been dead for about a year now.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by game_the0ry on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:32AM (#25486901)
Depends on the company for upgrading, not the employee. All the financial institutions in America are still running windows 7 mostly bc the managers and execs fear switching over, so they would rather run the whole corporation on an essentially unsupported and obsolete closed source operating system than upgrade and figure out a nominally different ui than they are used to.

Inertia is a powerful force in the IT departments of Corp America.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by egwor on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:45AM (#25487014)
Yeah, since I don't control what gets run on my desktop there's very little option. The web mail vs of Outlook is even locked out.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by tracker1 on Monday December 21, 2020 @02:26AM (#25492832)
Try disabling the Chrome background update mechanism in MacOS, it seems to be a common issue there... Not sure if Edge does the same, but that may be an alternative option.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by fortran77 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:41AM (#25486980)
The person you're responding to has an agenda (perhaps is even a paid astroturfer), and his story is not based in reality. My Windows 10 systems are rock-solid. I switched from all Macs years ago and never looked back.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by TedShiller on Saturday December 19, 2020 @11:14PM (#25483799)
I have the opposite experience. Nothing but Blue Screens on Windows.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by kyriakos on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:26AM (#25484339)
Blue screen is almost always a hardware issue, mostl likely ram or gpu related. Another possibility is a bad driver, but windows 10 can gracefully recover from them most of the times.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by iamtedd on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:41AM (#25485066)
Except the very article this thread is attached to. Windows update buggered up chkdsk, which breaks the filesystem. All in software.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by jamesgeck0 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:22AM (#25484790)
I haven’t seen it often, but it’s always been extremely impressive to me when my GPU driver crashes and Windows just restarts it without even losing my place in a game.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by reitzensteinm on Saturday December 19, 2020 @11:25PM (#25483842)
You might want to run memcheck on the machine. Windows is terrible in many ways, but having regular blue screens is not at all normal.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by TedShiller on Sunday December 20, 2020 @12:28AM (#25484084)
For me, OS stability, in decreasing order, has always been:

1. Linux

2. MacOS

10. Windows

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bengalister on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:41AM (#25484645)
Hard to say but for me I would say: 1. Windows 2. MacOS 3. Linux

I had more crashes on Linux than any other, all related to the Gpu driver (intel iGpu), and it really depends on the kernel version but newer not necessarily means better. In a VM with i3, it never crashed.

But regarding hardware support except for the Gpu, I had better experience with Linux than Windows on the same machine. On Windows my mouse is stuttering when connected on my TB3 hub, Wifi connectivity is much more unstable and strangely my battery consumption is higher (5-6 h on Windows, 6-7h on Linux)... But the issue on Linux is the lack of proprietary software to manage these device (talking about my Canon printer and scanner).

As for Mac (MBPro 2015 early) I had quite some issues with Bose QC35 II bluetooth connection. I have to reboot sometimes. And one issue with Mac I noticed is compared to Windows, is less support for corporate software. For instance, for my AWS remote certification exam, I could not connect with my Mac.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by Zardoz84 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:19AM (#25484996)
I never had crashes of Linux on the last 5 years, except 2 or 3 because I was using all the whole RAM and the system freezed. However, I had blue screens with Windows 10 on the same hardware, plus that Windows 10 it's nearly useless on a magnetic HDD.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by SomeoneFromCA on Sunday December 20, 2020 @04:50AM (#25485092)
Linux (and possibly BSDs, did not test) has broken OOM killer, which works the right way only if your swap is disabled. To prevent these situations from happening you need to install EarlyOOM.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by FeepingCreature on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:08AM (#25486690)
Or an M.2 SSD. I can go deep into swap and only notice a slight chugging.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by TedShiller on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:34PM (#25488892)
That’s weird, Linux is usually incredibly stable and I sometimes have the system running for months, whereas Windows is hard to get a long “uptime” on.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by reitzensteinm on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:10PM (#25491132)
All of our experiences are compatible if you look at it through the lens of modern kernels being ridiculously stable, with third party drivers causing all of the issues.

Linux on a server is basically bullet proof. There's just no surface area for issues, it's talking to storage and a network card. Desktop Linux with the wrong display drivers can crash daily.

Windows can be rock solid. I do game dev and am forced to have it as my daily driver. I have a 3900X, 2070 Super, do machine learning, VR development, game playing, peg it at 100% CPU overnight and I haven't had a blue screen since I bought it.

Buy the wrong laptop with shitty drivers, though, and BSOD is a way of life. Although Microsoft cracked down hard on this over the last decade, the WHQL initiative. They were well aware Windows stability was suffering at the hands of third parties, and put processes in place to validate their work.

And OS X, since it barely has to work with third party drivers, is more or less rock solid. You buy a MacBook Pro, plug an Apple mouse in and use it like that for years, maybe you never see a fault.

When it does interact with third party devices in my experience it's not better than Windows. Bluetooth handling in particular is quite poor.

This wasn't intended to be some kind of argument. Defending MS on the internet is of zero interest to me. I was intending to say, if you're forced to use Windows professionally and it's not stable, you absolutely do not have to put up with that. I don't.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by scns on Sunday December 20, 2020 @03:10AM (#25484749)
Brother printers are recommended here often, for their good linux support.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by fortran77 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @10:44AM (#25487005)
And Linux is the only system I've ever run that had malware show up on it.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by kyriakos on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:27AM (#25484345)
What's the last version of Windows you used and the latest version of MacOS?
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by alternatetwo on Sunday December 20, 2020 @12:57AM (#25484206)
For me, a system that ran Win7 fine for years, has now bluescreended a far too high amount, and wiped notepad++ sessions etc more than once ... So it can't be the hardware.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by hermitdev on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:44AM (#25484432)
Hardware can go bad and connections can loosen over time. I've had drives disappear only from the cable coming loose. Unplugging and plugging back in solved the issues. My current desktop is only report 48GB RAM when there's 64 installed. Undoubtedly at least one of the 8 DIMMs has become unseated or gone bad, but I've been too lazy to troubleshoot because I don't use that much currently.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by reitzensteinm on Sunday December 20, 2020 @01:07AM (#25484256)
I have a laptop that was stable for 18 months, then started crashing with increasing frequency. Booted in to memcheck and the memory was faulty. Replaced it and the crashes went away.

Not saying it's definitely the cause, but strongly suggest you check if you haven't yet. It doesn't take long.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by bayindirh on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:10AM (#25485446)
My system blew a RAM chip after 6 years. Changed the RAM and it's all good again.

We sometimes fry CPUs, memory controllers or RAM at office. Even a well cooled component has a lifetime and eventually gives up.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by AsyncAwait on Sunday December 20, 2020 @05:06AM (#25485156)
I've seen the same. In fact my Arch Linux laptop seems way more dependable than my 2016 MBP, so much so I switched my work MBP for an Arch setup too. I'm actually seriously thinking of replacing macOS with Windows on the MBP, which is not something I'd ever consider back in the Snow Leopard days.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by throwii on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:37AM (#25485575)
Does the displays on Windows look as crispy as on MacOS? That's the fear I have of switching away. I love how crisp to the eye everything is.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by armada651 on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:14AM (#25485741)
On Windows you decide how crisp you want your display. There are plenty of hardware options with Retina-equivalent DPI.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by throwii on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:37AM (#25485843)
I was probably too much into their marketing. Is it the same for Linux/Archlinux?
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by herbstein on Sunday December 20, 2020 @07:54AM (#25485919)
Tonsky, the creator of the popular 'Fira Code' monospace font, has a great blog post about monitor DPI and font rendering. A big section is on just how terrible font rendering and display scaling on a modern Mac really is.

https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors/

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by throwii on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:33PM (#25488884)
I only use the desktop mac so that's not much an issue probably, there it is probably 2x scaling. Interesting how Windows can handle anything as long as the hardware supports it!
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by aksss on Sunday December 20, 2020 @06:33PM (#25490642)
Good read.. at the end I was like Loyd: “so you’re telling me there’s a chance..” XD
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by sgc on Sunday December 20, 2020 @09:42AM (#25486492)
I don't use a mac but hop on other people's from time to time. I see nothing special there compared to my ~250 dpi ubuntu laptop.
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by throwii on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:38PM (#25488920)
250 sounds nice, compared to 220 retina ppi for macs. If its only constrained by the display that would be good. I will love buying 3080/5950x as my new workstation. hmm
Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by AsyncAwait on Sunday December 20, 2020 @08:04AM (#25485958)
I run Arch on a Surface Pro 7, (ironic, I know), which has a HiDPI display and the experience is good for me under GNOME, even fractional scaling is supported.

One thing to keep in mind is that Windows/Mac/Linux do render fonts differently - they may not look identical to macOS out of the box, but there's a lot of configuration options (if you want to play with them) to get them to look the way you want.

Re:Windows 10 20H2: ChkDsk damages filesystem on SSDs with K... by throwii on Sunday December 20, 2020 @02:39PM (#25488926)
I will probably use Arch too. Only have to choose good displays then :)