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Re:We need physical audio kill switches by onion-soup on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:18PM (#24535982)
Nothing will ever come close to convenience of analogue volume knobs. They give both immediate action and infinite granular control. Same goes for kitchen stoves. All the modern touch controls with step-based control is the absolute nightmare in terms of UI.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by LeoPanthera on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:23PM (#24536027)
With one specific exception - stereo volume knobs often - virtually always - suffer from stereo imbalance, where the volume of the left and right channels are slightly different.

Some high-end amplifiers offer a relay based volume system where the knob simply switches resistors in and out of the audio path using relays to adjust the volume, and although this does result in "steps" of volume, it does mean the stereo balance is always perfect.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by formerly_proven on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:32PM (#24536136)
That's a problem mostly caused by using passive log-taper circuits, instead of alternate active volume control circuits that use linear-taper pots, which have sufficiently good tolerance and ganging in low-cost dual units. But these circuits require 1-2 op amps per channel and those 20 cents are too much in three-figure hardware.

Ganged log-taper pots have something like +-3 or +-6 dB ganging mismatch even for relatively high-end (10-15 € ea) units.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by qppo on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:51PM (#24536317)
I've seen/heard this in $100 units from Schiit. Not to mention the poor hand soldering job that cost more money because a human did it in America.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by SSLy on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:14PM (#24537889)
You get what it says on the packaging
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by cthalupa on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:55AM (#24540878)
Send 'em an email.

Their $100 units are some of the best testing amps/dacs in the price range, so even from a purely subjectivist standpoint they make stuff that generally works pretty well. If you're encountering issues, then they will usually make good on it.

The stereo imbalance is just something you're gonna see at basically every amp at that price point.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by aleph_naught on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:55AM (#24551331)
I got the Modi2/Magni2 set for my HD650s when they originally came out. Total disappointment: pots had static when inc/dec vol, and had balancing issues. The headphone amp on my macbook didn’t suffer from any of that, was indistinguishable in sound quality with a blind test, and was way less hassle. Only difference was that it didn’t get as loud, but since I don’t listen past the macbooks max, I put them in the closet and never looked back.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by cthalupa on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @02:18AM (#24551463)
That's unfortunate. I use planar headphones, so a dedicated amp is pretty much a requirement due to the power draw vs. regular dyamics. I opted for a Schiit Bifrost/Asgard stack (they didn't have the magni/modi combo at the time) and had great experiences with them. I opted to perform one of the upgrades for the Bifrost myself, and after that had some issues with the DAC resetting and audio cutting out - emailed Schiit, told them what I had done to troubleshoot, and they shipped me a replacement upgrade part the next day.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by microcolonel on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:22PM (#24538882)
You can also just use an ADC in the sound chipset, since your average consumer electronics Class D amplifier is going to be adequate at any digital level, provided the circuit is not designed by a lower primate.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Gibbon1 on Monday September 21, 2020 @12:54AM (#24539937)
I feel personally attacked
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by playpause on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:55PM (#24536359)
I don’t mind if it uses volume steps under the hood, as long as it uses ~100 steps, not 10.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by tuatoru on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:18PM (#24539460)
Adding to formerly_proven's reply, back in the analog era we usually had balance and tone controls to compensate for the deficiences in both the recordings and our listening environments and equipment.

Balance and tone controls are still useful. You can treat your listening environments to be neutral (bass traps, absorbers and diffusers, etc); but when you have a few friends over to listen you need to compensate for the sound absorption by their bodies. Or if it's a nice day and you open the window. Or you have a recording made by a friend on their phone. All sorts of reasons.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by atoav on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:15PM (#24536532)
There are even more solutions to this problem:

One is to convert the L/R Stereo image to Mid/Side do the volume control and then convert it back to L/R. This way any mismatch of the potentiometer would translate into a change in stereo width instead of shifting the image around.

Another solution would be to use one pot as a voltage divider, buffer that voltage and use the resulting current to drive two Blackmer VCA ICs (e.g. THAT2181).

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by liability on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:49PM (#24536303)
Things like this make me glad I'm not an audiophile. What you describe seems very annoying, but thankfully I've never noticed anything like it.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Judgmentality on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:57PM (#24536373)
I don't think there's much benefit to being an audiophile, unless you're so rich you can actually enjoy your insanely expensive setup in your sound-proofed room with your specially-purchased lossless audio sources. Luckily, very few people who claim to be audiophiles can actually hear the difference in a blind test.

https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/...

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Natales on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:49PM (#24536819)
Don't judge all of us audiophiles with a blanket statement. Yes, measured hearing capacity is definitely a key metric to know (why invest in super tweeters when you can't hear past 18KHz for example), but room acoustics is probably the very next thing I'd look at.

I've seen so much "expensive" gear in rooms that are absolutely horrid in terms of sound reflections. Just a carpet, curtains or a couple of cheap sound panels can make wonders in improving sound if you know just a bit of the physics of sound. You don't have to invest in super expensive equipment to do that.

Furthermore, there is a healthy DIY community these days, where you can build your own speakers, cables, amplifiers, etc, with very little effort, and get a lot of enjoyment in the process and with the product. I built a set of LX521.4 and LX Mini speakers from Siegfried Linkwitz [0] and it changed completely the way I listen to audio now for an order of magnitude less money that what I'd had to pay otherwise...

[0] http://linkwitzlab.com/

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by ohazi on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:51PM (#24539618)
Thanks for the reminder -- I have an unassembled LX Mini kit in my closet that I should really build.

I was fortunate enough to meet Siegfried at one of his listening sessions about a year before he passed away, and we had a fun conversation about physics and electronics. Very nice man, with the right mix of formal (with his super nice diagrams) and informal (with his scrappy, clever, practical designs).

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Natales on Monday September 21, 2020 @12:01AM (#24539672)
I cannot agree more. I also had the pleasure of meeting him at his home in Corte Madera. After an hour of conversation and listening, of course I was really impressed with his creations, but during just a moment, I saw a glimpse of why he was really sharing his living room with a total stranger: it wasn't about the speakers or the tech. It was about music. He ultimately wanted to share his love of music.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by pbronez on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:37PM (#24538362)
Can you provide some more detail about your experiences with these speakers? I’ve seen the designs before, but they’re so exotic they seem like a gimmick.

I want to make two sets of speakers. First, a two channel set up for my home office, to play high-quality music while I work and handle conference call audio. Second, a monitor for my synthesizers. They produce a crazy range of detailed sound, and I want something that reproduces all that detail across a full range, even at lower volumes, and ideally without strict placement/listening position constraints.

I dream of building a battery powered custom speaker bank for synth busking / disturbing the peace.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Natales on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:03PM (#24538796)
I wrote about my experience with the minis first [0] and then with the LX521.4 [1].

The posts are old and I moved since then, but my experience has not changed. The minis are unreal. The quality of the sound you get in such a small (and cheap to build) package is to my knowledge, unmatched. Actually, I had them in my home office until recently [2]. As long as you have 1 to 1.5 ft of distance from the walls, they'll work like a champ.

The LX521.4 will go down to 20Hz, but the dipole open baffle bass is not "punchy" in the sense of pressurizing a room, but rather, you feel it all around. So it depends on the kind of music you listen to. I prefer classic rock and jazz, and some electronica, and so far I find them very rewarding.

The community in Oplug Support is very friendly and will help you in anything you want to know.

[0] https://ramirosalas.com/2016/02/on-my-lxmini-speakers/

[1] https://ramirosalas.com/2017/11/complete-linkwitz-setup/

[2] https://oplug-support.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=4941&p=44858&...

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by m463 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:07PM (#24539086)
Being an audiophile literally means you like audio.

It doesn't require you to purchase overengineered or overhyped technology any more than being a cycling enthusiast requires you to weigh your accessories in grams. :)

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by slacka on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:40PM (#24539267)
This may be true, but /u/Judgmentality just described to a T the one self-described audiophile that I am friends with.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by m463 on Monday September 21, 2020 @12:58AM (#24539956)
You know, one thing I learned from getting interested in stereo equipment was the concept of overengineering.

I always thought... how can there be such a thing? maybe you let the non-recurring costs get a little high, but don't you end up with a better product in the end?

Turns out overengineering is a thing.

I had a friend who was a real sound engineer.

You just need a good (not overpriced) set of earbuds.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by uxcolumbo on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:33AM (#24540779)
In-ear headphones or over-head ones?

Any recommendation?

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by auxym on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:48PM (#24538079)
Heh, back in the day we purchased those "CD" things and they were lossless. Actually, they didn't employ any compression at all!
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by m463 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:03PM (#24539066)
What's interesting is that you can play back lossless recordings via USB in tesla - I believe FLAC and ALAC - but the USB playback software is basically unmaintained.

One tesla website has a thread hundreds of pages/thousands of comments long of complaints.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/comprehensive-usb-bu...

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jsjohnst on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:44PM (#24538399)
> we purchased those "CD" things and they were lossless

Depends on how you define lossless, but for a sufficient informal definition, CD audio definitely is lossy.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by auxym on Sunday September 20, 2020 @08:13PM (#24538536)
I assume you're referring to bit depth and sampling. In that case, any digitization is lossy, because where do you draw the line?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by tuatoru on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:11PM (#24539426)
> where do you draw the line?

You draw the line at the limits of human hearing, which turn out to be about 20 bits from softest audible sounds to "hearing damage inside a minute"and a sample rate of around 48 ksa/s.

CDs weren't quite there. Modern stuff recorded with 24 bit depth and high bit rates is effectively lossless.

One of the goods things about the limitations of the CD format is that we learned a lot about masking noise via dithering (deliberately introducing more noise) and noise shaping.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by pkolaczk on Monday September 21, 2020 @09:30AM (#24543140)
I've heard studio noise floor is typically about 15-20 dB(A), and typical quiet living room is usually more than 30 dB(A). In my previous appartement in the city I measured something in range of 45-50 dB, which was actually pretty high and surprising to me - and funny, I didn't hear that noise live until recording and hearing back.

Dithering gives about 120 dB of useful dynamic range, so I can't imagine a case where someone wanted more. You can't go much lower than the noise floor of the environment and you don't want to go too far above 100 dB, because this already isn't pleasant (nor good for your ears; 85 dB is considered the upper safe SPL limit for longer exposure). I'd risk stating that even without dithering, the default 96 bit depth is good enough in typical listening conditions.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by garaetjjte on Monday September 21, 2020 @08:19AM (#24542431)
Shaped dither can increase dynamic range, and anyway 120dB range is rather unnecessary for music.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200310174634/https://people.xi...

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jsjohnst on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:19PM (#24538871)
> In that case, any digitization is lossy

Yep, that’s part of my point, but CD audio in particular isn’t that great of bit depth or sampling rate, even by standards of the time for uncompressed digital audio. There’s also the point that the “audio wars” era covered the era of CD audio and that’s certainly another major audio quality factor.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by microcolonel on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:25PM (#24538900)
Only one of these points is a thing. Even if you could find some situation where the dynamic range of a CD was inadequate, shaped dither or even complete garbage uniform dither would render that moot.

No producer or technician has any basis to complain about CD audio quality for listening by humans; the deficiencies of their CDs are entirely their fault.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jsjohnst on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:58PM (#24539054)
> No producer or technician has any basis to complain about CD audio quality for listening by humans

Ok, so since I can still identify sound frequencies >22khz despite being now 40yrs old, I’m not entitled as a human to critique the CD audio format, especially as I can tell you the exact moment when the audio range is being clipped in the songs I enjoy?

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by garaetjjte on Monday September 21, 2020 @08:27AM (#24542486)
It is highly unlikely that you can hear difference with >22kHz when listening to music. It could be just intermodulation distortion introduced by playing near-ultrasonics on normal equipment.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200310174634/https://people.xi...

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by microcolonel on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:49PM (#24539313)
Okay, even if you could hear frequencies in that range in an actual released musical recording, and not just at near-pain-threshold levels in isolation, 48kHz has become more popular since it's a more convenient "computery" number. Tell me you can hear frequencies above 23kHz, below the pain threshold, let alone not in isolation.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jsjohnst on Monday September 21, 2020 @07:39AM (#24542146)
I think you’ve gotten off track here. I’m not claiming higher bit rates and sampling rates than CD audio are inherently better in every case, just that CD audio is not what I’d call lossless.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Bud on Monday September 21, 2020 @01:25AM (#24540102)
Do we need to cover the Nyquist frequency again? Do you think that all of the audio engineers that designed the CD audio standards were tyros who were just making shit up and guessing?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jsjohnst on Monday September 21, 2020 @07:49AM (#24542203)
> Do we need to cover the Nyquist frequency again? Do you think that all of the audio engineers that designed the CD audio standards were tyros who were just making shit up and guessing?

Do we need to cover the site rules again? Is it assuming best intent to try and straw man my argument to serve what purpose, boost your ego?

1) of course the audio engineers knew what they were doing who created the CD audio standard.

2) of course they also had constraints from picking “best”, cost among them, and designed something that satisfied the demands placed on them as best as they could.

How does any of these tangents y’all have went on disprove the only point I made, that CD audio is not lossless (close, but no cigar) in the audio sound quality sense.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by rollcat on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:30PM (#24538318)
Well, you might want to read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jope12 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:34PM (#24537594)
I noticed it in my first Sony walkmen 30 years ago and it really pissed me off.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by beenBoutIT on Monday September 21, 2020 @02:45AM (#24540521)
The advent of touchscreen technology and its subsequent ubiquitous adoption replacing physical controls of all kinds across devices of all kinds is easily the single most ruinous thing to happen to UI in the modern history of design.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by hvidgaard on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:19AM (#24540698)
For many people, the convenience of touch controls outweigh the negatives. They're easier to clean and they can look nicer. Not that it's always a good idea to use them though.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by throwaway_pdp09 on Monday September 21, 2020 @04:51AM (#24541168)
You can have both. My old microwave had physical buttons (upraised so you could find them by touch, and that 'clicked' down when depressed) under a wipe clean plastic coat. It worked very well.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by read_if_gay_ on Monday September 21, 2020 @04:28AM (#24541044)
It is technically possible to build touch controls offering comparable UX to their analogue counterparts. Smartphones have done it since 2007. Why do stoves still force users to sequentially step through 14 settings using shitty +/- buttons in order to get what they want?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Joeri on Monday September 21, 2020 @06:28AM (#24541744)
Capacitive touch controls and grease do not interact well, as I am reminded every time my touch only stove hood goes to maximum ventilation until I forcefully clean the touch surface with a paper towel.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by read_if_gay_ on Monday September 21, 2020 @08:07AM (#24542338)
If the controls become greasy isn’t that just an issue of placement?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by hvidgaard on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @01:26AM (#24551155)
When I adjust the temperature in the car, change the volume on the stereo or change the heat output of a gas burner - they can all be done by touch controls, but the closest to something that might provide as good a UX I have ever experienced is the touch pad on newer macbooks.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mindslight on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:46PM (#24536790)
The biggest problem with "modern" digital controls, the lag, is completely avoidable. One can easily design a system using a microcontroller that responds within 10ms, which gives the appearance of being instantaneous. It's all just shoddy software engineering using bloated frameworks and poor languages, and consumers that don't know any better. Somehow we've had this problem going on a decade, and nobody has seen fit to shape up their development process.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by closeparen on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:06PM (#24536958)
What languages and frameworks are people using in consumer electronics?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mindslight on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:27PM (#24537117)
I have no idea these days, but it's clearly something that takes 100ms+ to process an input event (java? html? flash? all of the above?). Responsive encoders/buttons/displays were doable 15 years ago with 5 MIPS microcontrollers in C. Driving an HD44780 character LCD is easier than a full raster display, which explains the appeal of the bloat, but quick sprites etc should be completely doable after two decades of progress.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Gibbon1 on Monday September 21, 2020 @01:15AM (#24540050)
I have two thoughts. One is an overloaded CAN Bus. Some process is polling the switch every 100ms. The second is the process itself isn't allowed to run very often because it's sharing CPU time with a bunch of critical stuff.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by hvidgaard on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:23AM (#24540723)
Either way, a car ought to have two separate systems. One for critical functionality, and one for controlling the radio, climate controls, windows and the like.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mindslight on Monday September 21, 2020 @10:14AM (#24543723)
No switches should be getting polled over a CAN bus. If there's enough of a processor to be a CAN node, there's enough processor to debounce a button and transmit state change events.

Sure the situation might exist, but it's exactly the kind of bad engineering I'm calling out.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by GoToRO on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:19PM (#24537510)
Autosar for automotive. The delay is a requirement and not really due to the framework.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mindslight on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:25PM (#24537955)
Um, what? What kind of requirement of that? The UI lag on modern cars is a safety hazard.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by GoToRO on Monday September 21, 2020 @06:13AM (#24541644)
I’m not sure what lag are you refering, but on physical buttons there is a minimum of 50ms - 100ms required by the customer.

I guess is the same as on iPhone where if you hold backspace, it will not zap all the text, but go one by one with a visible delay. These companies simply treat end users as babies.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mindslight on Monday September 21, 2020 @10:04AM (#24543588)
A good rule of thumb is that anything over 10ms response appears laggy (not instantaneous) to a user. This is especially dangerous on touchscreen inputs, as they lack tactile feedback and therefore require the user to focus on the display until their input has been acknowledged.

I can't tell the specific concept you're talking about though. If it's the auto-repeat rate (your iPhone example), then of course there needs to be a delay before that kicks in, and a steady repeat rate. I'm talking about single button presses.

If you're talking about the requirement to debounce buttons, the proper way to do this is to act on the button press immediately, while setting a timer that disallows further button state changes while waiting for the contacts to settle. This time is a balance between how long it actually takes the contacts to settle, and how rapidly a user could possibly push a button (missing a deliberate button press is also extremely frustrating and dangerously demanding of user attention, even with tactile feedback).

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by GoToRO on Monday September 21, 2020 @11:28AM (#24544544)
What I was saying is that the way you debouce a button comes from the customer (mercedes, ford etc.).

For sure you don’t act on a button press imediately. If you do that in automotive, all the electric noise will trigger the button randomly.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by tetris11 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:30PM (#24536117)
Every microwave I have ever owned have been under $30, purely because I didn't want to go digital. Analogue egg-timer knob - good enough accuracy, and instantly pliable
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by liability on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:17PM (#24536549)
At least microwaves with digital controls actually have full numpads. Every digital-control oven I've ever had the misfortune of using only has increment/decrement buttons. Want to set the oven to 450F? Have fun pressing the increment button twenty times for five degree increments starting at 350F. It's an abomination.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by frosted-flakes on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:24PM (#24537090)
The best microwave I've ever used didn't have any numpad at all. Instead, it has a horizontal sliding touch pad. It sounds stupid, but it works SO WELL. Move your finger slowly and it increments one second at a time, move it quickly and it jumps faster. On the front there are only two buttons (stop/clear and start/+30sec) and the touch slider and screen.

If you open the door there are a few more buttons for setting power levels and a timer, and the only useful preset button (popcorn), but none of the useless ones.

This LG NeoChef model: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/microwave-ovens/lg-LMC1575BD

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by zwayhowder on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:34PM (#24539225)
Just got one of these, and after an initial learning curve agree it is super intuitive (now) and works really well.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by icelancer on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:24PM (#24536618)
This is such a weird thing that we accept as normal. Completely agree it's absurd that on the microwave we have a numpad and on an oven we have up/down arrows with an arbitrary starting point (mine is 350 degF).
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by ckolkey on Monday September 21, 2020 @02:10AM (#24540333)
I'm on my phone, so it's a bit difficult to look up, but 350 isn't actually arbitrary. It's a temperature that is hot enough to allow you to get a maliard reaction without being so hot that you easily burn food.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by netsharc on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:44PM (#24536774)
350 degF might not be so arbritarily chosen, it's probably a good starting point, then the user would only have to press down or up a few times to reach the cooking temperature they want for their food.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by tssva on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:15PM (#24538231)
Every digital control oven I have ever used continued to increment or decrement as long as you held the appropriate button down. No need to press the button twenty times. Some of them even increased the rate of increase/decrease the longer you held the button down.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by smaudet on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:25PM (#24539483)
Yes, but that's nowhere near as simple nor effective as a turn dial.

This is just another example of the brain-dead designers and coders running around ruining the world.

It sounds extreme to say, but I suspect quite a few of them have blood and misery on their hands, because some poorly designed control cascaded in effect and caused a catastrophe elsewhere. It's easier to imagine with medical equipment than microwaves, but its still putting someone's desire to write fancy control algorithms over a simpler more effective design.

Start out by punching any jackass insisting everything be digital, you will go a long way to solving the problem of bad designers.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by auxym on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:50PM (#24538091)
Oh yeah and the button will probably give out after 3 years, at which point you have to replace the entire "timer" (control panel PCB), which is about half the price of the oven.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Smoosh on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:50PM (#24539611)
I selected our oven specifically because of the sensible analogue controls (large knobs) for selecting the function and temperature.

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/au/cooking/ovens/contemporary-o...

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Polylactic_acid on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:15PM (#24538854)
My oven has a rotary encoder on it for temp adjustment. It works pretty well.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by zbrozek on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:07PM (#24538188)
My oven has a numpad. I punch in the temperature I want. It's great! GE Profile dual oven circa 2000.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by MawKKe on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:50PM (#24536308)
Yeah. It's one thing that does not need improving.

My parents bought a new microwave with all kinds of fancy digital features that nobody uses 99% of the time. In addition to being really difficult to use, it also makes a very loud BEEEP on every button press. Insanity.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by somehnguy on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:04PM (#24536439)
Beeping appliances is one thing I can't stand. They're always too loud and rarely offer any adjustment or mute functionality.

I got a new microwave recently. It beeped on every button press, 5 beeps after a cook cycle, no way to mute (yeah, I checked). Within a day of owning it I took it apart and ripped the beeper off the board. Problem solved.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by aendruk on Sunday September 20, 2020 @08:36PM (#24538662)
Some day we’ll collectively learn to replace all the crude beeping with less abrasive, natural sounds like the gentle and informative clicking of the iPod’s touch wheel. Think the crunch of a fallen leaf, the satisfying zip of a sweater, the subtle scrape of a ceramic mug being hastily lifted—distinct and deliberately applied to build conventions like we have with e.g. red/green colors. Shrill beeps will be the tell that dates an antique.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by genewitch on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:21PM (#24537062)
I recently went on a crusade to pull the piezo buzzers out of all my UPS... because, when the power's out, i don't need a sound to tell me, do i?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by voltagex_ on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:54PM (#24538118)
Weren't you worried about damaging the microwave shielding?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by somehnguy on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:48PM (#24539003)
Not at all.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by waterhouse on Monday September 21, 2020 @05:15AM (#24541317)
In my experience (3 out of 3 microwaves that I tried this on), there is usually an options or settings menu that lets you turn off the beep.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Aaargh20318 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:17PM (#24536554)
I have a €400 microwave and it’s great. It has one big rotary button that will set the time, press start and it goes. You don’t need any of the other buttons to simply microwave stuff. What those buttons do give me is an oven and steamer. It’s not my main oven but having an extra oven can be convenient and the steamer function is great. Zero effort perfect rice every time. Toss some veggies and spices on a tray, steam for a couple of minutes and you have an easy, healthy and tasty side dish.

Another great feature is that it doesn’t have a rotating platform, I have square plates so that’s also super convenient.

I get buying a simple microwave if that’s all you need it to do, but don’t dismiss the models with more bells and whistles, they have their place as well.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by thret on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:27PM (#24538304)
I've never understood why microwaves have an alarm that can't be disabled. They actually make me angry every time I fail to stop it manually at <10s.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by m463 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:11PM (#24539109)
On the other hand, I used to have a microwave with a "nag timer" that would continue nagging you until you took your food out.

Saved (fallible) me from a lot of cold meals.

My current microwave doesn't have that and in ascending order of silliness I have 1) forgotten food and eaten it cold 2) gotten hungry and gone to heat up something only to find there was something already in the microwave 3) (worst) opened the microwave to find something there from the night before.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by thret on Sunday September 27, 2020 @07:19PM (#24611050)
Why wouldn't you just reheat the food if it was cold?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by _jal on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:26PM (#24536641)
I have a cheapo digital that suits my needs well enough. It is ancient and keeps working, which is all I ask of it.

But the UI is utterly absurd. The default presentation is to select timer or cook. Who uses a timer anywhere nearly as much as the cook function? It is like a car always first asking if you'd rather drive or pop the hood.

One more button press has never been enough to annoy me anywhere nearly enough to replace it. But I wonder how many times I've pressed it.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mywittyname on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:16PM (#24539135)
Interestingly enough, many commercial microwaves are like this, with detents at 1 minutes increments. Being able to load and set a microwave in under 5 seconds without paying much attention is really crucial in a busy kitchen.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by combatentropy on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:22PM (#24536595)
I went the opposite way and bought a $240 Panasonic commercial microwave, because I also wanted it to last. It's just a little big.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by CyberDildonics on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:32PM (#24537156)
I have never seen or even heard of a microwave breaking.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by auxym on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:52PM (#24538103)
Consumer level microwaves in shared areas, like in workplaces or schools, tend to break real fast. I've seen some not last a year.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by smegger001 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:01PM (#24538156)
my parents have gone through about 4 microwaves in the last 15 years. the one before that they had for about 15 it was only replaced because the dial broke off while they were moving.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by taneq on Monday September 21, 2020 @02:02AM (#24540289)
Yep, our current microwave actually has a really well thought-out digital interface. Probably the best digital microwave interface I've ever seen. Still inferior to the analog twist-knob on the one we had when I was a kid.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by thotsBgone on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:34PM (#24536161)
I'm a young person: I used an analogue washer/dryer for the first time after moving out of my parents' house, and I was impressed by how well designed they were compared to the digital piece of shit my parents had. Plus the digital washer had several software bugs which made it sometimes stop washing mid-cycle, but the analogue ones have never failed.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by amiga-workbench on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:27PM (#24536092)
My Topping DAC/Amp has an optical rotary encoder for volume control and it is awful, it will randomly jump 10x the amount of steps you have rotated it, sometimes even in the opposite direction. There's something to be said for a good old fashioned potentiometer.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by formerly_proven on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:30PM (#24536115)
It's kinda ridiculous that seemingly three quarters of the people who write graycode decoder firmware get it wrong, despite the correct methods being publicly available with sample code since 15-20 years at least.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by toomanybeersies on Monday September 21, 2020 @01:07AM (#24540003)
It's also an assignment that close to every electrical/computer engineer would have had to do as part of their degree.

I guess you only need to understand ~50% of the course material to get your degree though.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by numpad0 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:12PM (#24536491)
Sounds like clicky 3-pin A/B bi-phase type though. I’ve done stupid things and tried to read that and two buttons with single ADC. That jumped around when Vref fluctuates.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jope12 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:43PM (#24537673)
An "optical rotary encoder"? I doubt it. I bet it's a mechanical rotary encoder. And that it randomly jumps means their code for reading the encoder sucks. Something like that should not happen if properly implemented. I will take a rotary encoder over a potentiometer every time.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by lopmotr on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:41PM (#24536214)
Potentiometers have that problem too when they get worn, which they always do if they also double as on/off switch like on most cheap radios.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by dheera on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:07PM (#24536451)
They could use something like an AS5048A for 14-bit (effectively analog to humans) magnetic position sensing instead of a potentiometer or variable inductor.

Considering they already need digital control circuitry to interface to a touch screen it shouldn't be significantly cost-prohibitive to use that to make knobs that are immune to oxidization.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by numpad0 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:16PM (#24536539)
Kinda costly? I wonder if a dead simple 10kΩ B-curve potentiometer would do, though they drift a lot
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by oasisbob on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:43PM (#24538391)
Just about every analog lighting board I've ever seen has huge dead zones on the end of the linear pots on some channels.

I'm surprised the potentiometers work at all given the abuse they go through. Early desks had no memory, so it was often a huge rush to set the next scene in the fader bank before it was needed.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by amiga-workbench on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:41PM (#24536219)
Yes, I keep a can of contact cleaner around to get rid of the oxidisation.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by YarickR2 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:40PM (#24536207)
until it wears off or catches something between the slider and the base
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by m-p-3 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @10:05PM (#24539078)
And it's in my opinion doubly-important in a car, where you must put all your attention on your surroundings. The tactile feedback of buttons and knobs is paramount, and touch screens are awful to operate while driving.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Cthulhu_ on Monday September 21, 2020 @05:29AM (#24541390)
I've got an "older" (~12 years?) car atm, a Ford, and it's got pretty beefy controls for the radio as an extra lever on the steering wheel; it's got buttons for volume control but I can operate it without thinking or taking my eyes off the wheel at least.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by robotnikman on Monday September 21, 2020 @12:57PM (#24545703)
I have a newer Ford and they still provide physically controls for the radio by the touchscreen as well as on the steering wheel.

When it comes to cars a touchscreen definitely isn't the best way to control things

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mhh__ on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:43PM (#24536231)
Cooking on gas is much more pleasurable than most electric stoves. There's much more "feel" to control the heat
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by dheera on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:48PM (#24536283)
I use an induction stove and it is even more pleasurable than gas in terms of the speed of response of the pot. Response is literally instant because the pot is the source of heat, and not something external. They are also by far the safest since the hottest thing in the entire system is the bottom of the pot, which is usually at about 100-200 C depending on what you're cooking, which is usually not hot enough to start a fire. Compare to a electric stove whose element reaches upwards of 800 C or a gas stove which has an actual open flame which can easily catch nearby flammable vapors, hair, or clothing on fire if not careful.

Gas stoves are the next most responsive because the fire doesn't "store" heat; only the grill does.

Finally electric stoves are the slowest-responding because the coil stores quite a bit of heat even after power is cut, and that heat continues to transfer into the pot. Conversely, when starting them up, it takes quite a while to heat up the element hot enough to only then transfer some of that heat into the pot.

You do want a quality induction stove with an analog knob for the best experience, though. The low-end induction stoves typically have touch-step controls and pulsating simmer, which IMO is still way better than an electric stove if you're on a budget, and still responds faster than gas stoves but lacks the fine-grained simmer controls that some of the higher-end models do, if that is important to you.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by downut on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:09PM (#24537851)
I cook on a 30 yo gas range with all high capacity burners and regular knobs. The response is nonlinear: there's a big jump in flame intensity as you pass through nominal "low" to "medium". In practice I don't look at the knobs at all, I can fine tune the heat by looking directly at the size of the flame. My visual judgement is instantaneous. The results are stellar throughout the range.

When I travel, for instance to cook for the inlaws on holidays, I have to spend time physically correlating how hot each of the burners is for its particular settings. It seems to vary between each individual burner, which are different sizes. The way I correlate is to use my bare fingers to quickly touch the bottom of the pan. Or I lift the pan up and touch the bottom there. This seems suboptimal. When I travel to AirBnBs, induction ranges are all the rage. Same process. I suppose if you're boiling a pot of water, the induction speed is great. If you're making something sensitive like a hollaindaise, lordy what a PITA, in my experience.

I make delicate sauces like hollaindaise reliably and speedily on my nominal 15,000 BTU gas range. I have had the family twiddling fingers more than once waiting on me to get results from an induction burner. Same burner is an outstanding large volume frier.

Now I get that the induction technology is safer, but then I use a big chainsaw with a real chain to cut down trees on my property. Chainsaws are highly dangerous and exceptionally useful. Similarly I raised up a child that learned to cook quite sophisticated things on that big gas range. She was also using very sharp 12" knives from an early age. There can be a deep pleasure in "be here now", paying attention to your tools, using them competently and safely.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by ghostpepper on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:39PM (#24539555)
I have always believed in the adage that 'a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp one.' Good for you for making sure your kid learns to use a proper tool correctly and thus safely.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by mhh__ on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:03PM (#24536428)
I don't mind cooking on induction but I like to manage the heat by moving the actual pan i.e. if I am cooking bacon I will hold the pan edge up to catch the oil and concentrate the heat up
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Zitrax on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:46PM (#24536787)
There exists modular cooktops where you can mix and match and thus get both gas and induction.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by sib on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:41PM (#24537229)
I hate induction stoves (cooktops) because they seem to hit intermediate temperatures by cycling the power on and off rather than having a continuous intermediate setting.

(It's possible I've only ever encountered crappy induction cooktops...)

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by afiori on Monday September 21, 2020 @04:13AM (#24540963)
I have no idea if this poses some safety risks, but it worked when I was a student with a cheap induction stove. You can simply put a pair of kitchen clots under your pan to "dampen" the induction and use higher levels that do not cycle between on and off.

Again, I don't know the safety characteristics of induction so maybe I did something really stupid...

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by dheera on Sunday September 20, 2020 @08:47PM (#24538726)
Mine pulses for the lower settings but has continuous control for the higher settings.

I believe higher-end stoves will either not pulse or pulse fast enough to effectively be continuous when you factor in the thermal inertia of the pot.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by lathiat on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:50PM (#24539013)
This is sadly a problem with cheap and/or crappy induction cook tops. And it is quite annoying.

One of those little traps that it's often hard to know about in advance.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jimador on Sunday September 20, 2020 @11:53PM (#24539633)
I loathe touch controls. We had them on our last stove and our cats would repeatedly walk across them.

They had a lock button, but every now and then one of their paws would stand long enough on the lock/unlock touch control to activate the entire panel.

We resorted to flipping the breaker any time we left the house. Guess none of those engineers had a cat.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Cthulhu_ on Monday September 21, 2020 @05:31AM (#24541398)
I've actually had the same happen to my gas stove, but then, it doesn't seem to have a temperature lock-out like better designed ones do. Came home one day and the house smelled of gas. It was on low but still, it could've ended very badly. Not sure if I accidentally did it or the cat managed to.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by scotty79 on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:30PM (#24536122)
I kinda like step-based control of my stove. It makes things predictable. Although I'd probably prefer knob with numeric indicator to exactly what value it is set.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by reaperducer on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:35PM (#24536163)
I kinda like step-based control of my stove

I hate it on my oven. It defaults to 200 degrees, and to change it to 450 takes almost a full minute as it plods along in five-degree increments.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by lopmotr on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:39PM (#24536205)
That's a different problem from the typical rotary encoder used on most modern knobs that can respond instantly but still has discrete steps.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by pengaru on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:54PM (#24536347)
Did you RTFM?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by CyberDildonics on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:35PM (#24537173)
Every oven for the last 65 years has been easy to figure out by reading the labels on the controls. It wasn't until the javascript generation started designing them that you needed to read a manual to preheat it to a temperature and set a timer.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by thiht on Monday September 21, 2020 @05:01AM (#24541232)
What does it have to do with Javascript?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by toomanybeersies on Monday September 21, 2020 @01:02AM (#24539979)
One of my favourite features (if you could call it a feature) of gas stoves is that you can immediately tell if it's on or not.

It's a lot easier to accidentally melt a plastic chopping board onto an electric stove than a gas one, and much harder to clean off when you do.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jwr on Monday September 21, 2020 @02:41AM (#24540505)
> much harder to clean off when you do

That's only true for the type of electric stove that is still (bizarrely) popular in the US, with exposed spiral heaters. At least in the EU electric stoves are all glass. And many of them are induction heaters, which means your plastic chopping board wouldn't even notice being on the heater.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Reelin on Monday September 21, 2020 @05:46AM (#24541485)
I'm not sure where you got that idea? Radiant and induction cooktops are by far the most common here in my experience.

Cleaning melted plastic off of the vast majority of surfaces, including glass, is hardly easy.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by xxs on Monday September 21, 2020 @04:38AM (#24541094)
Induction hobs tend use 3 phase lanes 230v/400v, around 7kW. The US suffers from low voltage mains. It'd take around 60A to get 7kV.

OTOH, leaving a plastic (PP or some other thermoplastic) board on non-induction glass heater top would smear in a horrific way, close to impossible to clear it. The heaters do have LED illumination, though.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by Reelin on Monday September 21, 2020 @06:04AM (#24541592)
Residential power in the US is universally (to the best of my knowledge) three pole single phase 60 Hz 240V. The (common) wall outlets are certainly 120V, but large appliances are 240V. (A typical electric dryer is ~5kW at just over 20A.)

As long as I'm ackchyuallying, I'll also point out that radiant cooktops don't have LEDs in them (at least I've never come across one like that). The red light (which I assume you're referring to) is just what happens when the element in an infrared heater (space heater, toaster, etc) gets hot.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by rini17 on Monday September 21, 2020 @06:07AM (#24541606)
Parent is writing about induction, not radiant. In either case, they usually have additional indicator of residual heat after the heater is turned off. But yes, that's likely not a LED either.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by vel0city on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:50PM (#24547671)
A cooktop in the US would be using 240V single-phase power. 7,000W / 240V = 29.167A.

Three legs come into the house, two hots and center tap neutral. Either hot to the neutral = 120V. Either hot to the other hot = 240V.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by atorodius on Monday September 21, 2020 @02:27AM (#24540441)
I don’t get why stoves don’t have some more obvious visual indicator for this. Could imagine a circle of red LEDs around each stove.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by lazyasciiart on Monday September 21, 2020 @05:11AM (#24541294)
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by yitchelle on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:12PM (#24537006)
Touch screens in cars are really a bad move. Having to navigate it while driving down the freeway, or even your suburban streets is unbelievable risky. Knobs and push buttons with tactile feedback are still the best options.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by bluGill on Sunday September 20, 2020 @08:34PM (#24538645)
I've been surprised for years that the NTSB hasn't forced a recall on those.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by lopmotr on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:37PM (#24536184)
I was careful to buy a benchtop oven and microwave with mechanical knobs. They just work instantly and intuitively as well as being cheaper than all the stupid electronic button and display nonsense. I can even use the oven's timer to time other cooking things because it's clockwork and works without the oven being turned on.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by nerplederple on Sunday September 20, 2020 @06:29PM (#24537977)
I used to be able to control every element of the audio and HVAC in my old pickup truck by feel without ever taking my eyes off the road. Now, half the vehicles I sit in require taking eyes off the road to even find the control let alone locate the visual-only position of that control's feedback.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by scottmcf on Sunday September 20, 2020 @08:38PM (#24538678)
This is something I'll rant about whenever given the opportunity. Car UI is completely awful.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by codethief on Monday September 21, 2020 @05:08AM (#24541273)
This. I recently had to buy a small 15€ USB sound card because, as it turns out, my new Dell laptop's built-in audio card doesn't work properly on Linux(×). Not only is the sound orders of magnitude better, it also comes with a handy volume knob! It's so much fun to use!

(×) I can't believe it's 2020 and I'm writing this. I haven't had any significant hardware issues on Linux in almost a decade. What's even worse is that Dell specifically claims that the laptop is fully compatible with Ubuntu.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by ngold on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:36PM (#24537184)
I have a big round audio knob that is insanely handy. I can move it around wherever I'm at. A mouse and audio knob makes watching or listening to something very nice.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by jononor on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:48AM (#24540845)
Products are unfortunately designed to sell, not to be used.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by crispyporkbites on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:56PM (#24536361)
For hobs/stove tops, touch controls are way easier to clean. I spend more time cleaning than adjusting the controls so to me it’s a better trade off
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by dheera on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:00PM (#24536401)
For most analog knobs you can pull the knobs off and throw them in the dishwasher.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by rv-de on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:05PM (#24537415)
Talking about knobs on stoves and UX - I never understood why American stoves have the knobs on a panel at the back of the stove instead of at the front. Isn't it inconvenient having to reach over hot, frying, steaming pots and pans?
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by swimfar on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:19PM (#24537509)
Most likely for safety reasons. They are less likely for children to play with them or people to bump into them.

But ovens with controls in the front are definitely available in the US. So you can have whatever style you want.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by pimlottc on Sunday September 20, 2020 @09:27PM (#24538920)
That's a very broad generalization, I have used dozens of stoves in my American life and the knobs are often at the front.

I agree, though, it is stupid when they are in the back. Presumedly this is just to save money by putting all the controls and displays in one place.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by ddingus on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:07PM (#24537424)
Yes. It is stupid but cheap, IMHO.

Still, those are better than buttons.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by ummonk on Sunday September 20, 2020 @05:18PM (#24537499)
The one thing I like about the Touch Bar is sliding rather than step based controls for volume and brightness. Still woefully inferior to tactile knobs / wheels though.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by sizzle on Monday September 21, 2020 @12:07AM (#24539696)
Same goes for car audio and climate control
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by antfarm on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:09AM (#24540654)
Maybe a fader.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by vaccinator on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:29PM (#24536661)
digital is not all bad... if I could type 3 numbers to get a temperature on my stove, I would be happy... but they went a different route where you need to push a button 20 times to get the temperature that you want or you need to hold it for x seconds...
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by adrianmonk on Sunday September 20, 2020 @04:33PM (#24537161)
To add insult to injury, my oven has membrane buttons, and of course the temperature/time up button has gotten the most wear, so it doesn't work quite right.

If I want to set a timer for an hour, theoretically I hold it and it repeats and jumps in increments of 5, but it's too flaky sometimes. So I alternate between trying to get that to work and just pressing the button a zillion times.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by threatofrain on Sunday September 20, 2020 @02:45PM (#24536252)
I don’t trust anyone except Apple to do touch screen experiences well.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by appleiigs on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:13PM (#24536505)
Go buy a fancy Apple Watch and jump in a pool. You won't be able to start or stop the timer with wet fingers.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by neilalexander on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:57PM (#24536874)
A limitation of capacitive touchscreens in general. A resistive display would be worse in just about every other application though.

Incidentally, you can press both the crown and the side button at the same time to pause and resume a workout even when the display is water-locked.

Re:We need physical audio kill switches by threatofrain on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:26PM (#24536637)
Now imagine that another company designs that experience.
Re:We need physical audio kill switches by TeMPOraL on Sunday September 20, 2020 @03:58PM (#24536882)
Ny Pebble is fully operational when wet, or even underwater. Oh wait, that's because it has physical buttons.

(Never got the point of a touchscreen on a smartwatch. The surface is too small to be useful.)