News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Santosh83 on Friday August 28, 2020 @09:53AM (#24304815)
I have been getting financial emails from several people for many years at my GMail ID. They apparently have given my address but without the dot.

But what mystifies me is how these people keep going for years without ever realising they aren't getting account transaction emails (from their banks), notifications of stock trades, even OTP emails etc. How is it possible for people to use these services for years without ever wondering why they aren't getting the routine emails they're supposed to get or even why they aren't getting the OTP email they had generated?

Also none of the institutions I contacted to ask their clients to update their correct email bothered to do so. On the contrary they sent me back what looked like automated replies asking if their customer service was satisfactory.

At this point I'm sorely tempted to delete my email and start over with another service provider. The nuisance of having to delete almost a dozen emails not meant for you every single day is annoying to say the least. At least with spam you get it sent to spam folder and there it stays. Confidential emails not meant for you is awkward and uncomfortable to have to put up with.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:46AM (#24306236)
Been there. I posted about this before but I own a 5 character common first and last name @gmail.com address. I get misdirected emails _constantly_.

Usually I am polite about it and let people know, but sometimes I make a game of it. I was invited to participate in a drum circle with an offer to pay for my flight to which I replied that I would love to join, but they would also have to pay for drum lessons. I got a mother insisting that I come home for the weekend to which I replied that I am home, perhaps she hadn't knocked hard enough.. etc.

At one point I got like 15 emails deriding me and my choice to "not support firefighters". Turns out that a member of a city council had listed his email as councilman.<me>@gmail.com and most people just ignored everything before that period. I took it as a challenge to see what the most outlandish thing I could say was that would be believed. Some of the better attempts: "My wife had an affair with a firefighter once!" and "My house has never burned down, why do we even need these guys?".. etc.

With most of the financial emails you can unsubscribe at least. =/

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by boring_twenties on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:48PM (#24307809)
Unsubscribe, man, I'm jealous.

Some dude 2,000 miles away from me has bought a Lexus and now I get regular emails about the status of his vehicle, receipts for all work done to it, and reminders of all maintenance not done to it. For a year and counting.

Each email helpfully includes instructions for unsubscribing: First, you log into the Lexus app...

I finally got fed up with it and reported them to abuse@.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by williamscales on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:55PM (#24308656)
Well, since you have the email, you can log in to the Lexus app. Then you could turn off the notifications.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by boring_twenties on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:01PM (#24308718)
I'm not sure about this but wouldn't that be a felony?
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by treeman79 on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:10PM (#24308799)
Yes.

99.9% chance no one would care. But people do freak out over this stuff.

Knew one guy that saw that a Bank got hacked on the news. Did an nslookup or similar to check the banks site.

He was arrested the next day and expelled from college for hacking the bank.

Eventually all got cleared up, but screwed up a year of his life

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by dtparr on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:34PM (#24309037)
He got expelled for running a DNS query?

Do you mean nmap?

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by treeman79 on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:56PM (#24309258)
Maybe. Was awhile ago
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by boring_twenties on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:15PM (#24313076)
Yeah, I'd rather not take a 0.1% chance of losing my rights for life over some spam email.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by bjohnson225 on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @03:13PM (#24411874)

   M
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by laurent92 on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:26PM (#24310163)
Can you claim you thought it was your account? Then, to demonstrate you knew it wasn’t yours, they’d have to collect various proof, and this demonstration being erratic and risky, they’d probably not attempt a trial.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by boring_twenties on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:19PM (#24313103)
I can probably claim whatever I want, but given I've never even looked at a Lexus dealership in my life, I doubt I could pull it off.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by williamscales on Monday August 31, 2020 @11:11AM (#24332256)
I'm not sure either, but couldn't you argue that it _is_ your Lexus account? It has _your_ email on it after all. That is the single important identifier attached to the account. The other stuff doesn't matter.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by rorykoehler on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:20PM (#24308915)
Just create a filter to auto delete them
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by boring_twenties on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:21PM (#24313112)
Perfectly reasonable solution but somehow just unsatisfying.

In the old days, when I ran my own mail server, I used to enjoy rejecting them with custom SMTP 550 messages.

Now I can't do that so I hard to resort to bothering the poor folks at abuse@.

In my defense, they have emailed me from 3 or so different domains/services, so I've had to set up a filter more than once.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by pwinnski on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:27PM (#24307531)
> I own a 5 character common first and last name @gmail.com address

Were you a Google employee? Or did you mean something other than how I read this, that your first and last name combined are 5 characters? Because I believe 5-character usernames are not permitted for gmail addresses.

I tried to confirm this and provide a link, but all of support.google.com appears to be non-responsive right now. When it stars working again, this may support my assertion: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/9211434?hl=en

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:35PM (#24307646)
I was an early Gmail SRE so I was able to circumvent the restrictions. It was a bad idea it turns out. For a project I also created "[email protected]" and caused a production outage due to the volume of mail it got forwarded. =)

But yes your right, 6 characters is the minimum of "open" gmail accounts. I know of at least a dozen 2 character accounts created by insiders though.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by pwinnski on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:46PM (#24307789)
I am 'pwinnski' nearly everywhere now, because on April 1, 2005, I was not allowed to create a gmail account of only the first five characters. Goodbye to 15 years of the old 5-character username, and hello to what is now 15 years of the new 8-character username!

At the time, I thought about pestering my Google-employee friends, but decided to just suck it up.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by bookofjoe on Sunday August 30, 2020 @05:55PM (#24326251)
Synchronicity: You joined HN June 28, 2016 I joined May 8, 2016
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by pwinnski on Monday August 31, 2020 @03:55PM (#24335319)
Weird. I wonder if you told me about it back then, or it was a coincidence.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by bookofjoe on Monday August 31, 2020 @06:09PM (#24336401)
That is such an interesting question; it could be either one IMHO, with equal likelihood
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by HenryBemis on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:34PM (#24310245)
I got a friend that also snatched a 5-letter Gmail account back in the day. He was kind enough to facilitate that I get one to but I got my own domain since forever so didn't get to get one.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by martinflack on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:43PM (#24310348)
> I was an ... SRE ...... I ... caused a production outage

I have nothing to add, except that you made me smile on a Friday afternoon.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Saturday August 29, 2020 @12:47AM (#24313635)
Google war story: we used to get digital badges on our employee profiles to indicate useful things like ability to write c++ or python, or having worked on a specific project, etc. I got "porn cookie" for working on the safe search stuff.

Anyway, I designed a badge called "I broke Gmail" that would get applied to anybody that did exactly that. I intended a hint of shame but I got a wall of emails asking to get it with explanations of how each had broken the service at some point.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by londons_explore on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:04PM (#24313020)
Nearly all SRE's have caused an outage of some kind... The trick is to design your systems well enough that even when there is an outage few/no people notice...
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by sethammons on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:10PM (#24309979)
that's a fantastic outage :)
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by adenner on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:26PM (#24308344)
As the lucky early adopter of gmail I got my last name only @gmail.com. It has been a blessing and a curse.

I have a boilerplate "you have the wrong address" email in multiple languages that I use to reply to the first email from real people. If they persist they then get added to my auto-reply "you have the wrong address" and delete rule.

For automated emails, I don't even bother trying to unsubscribe. They all get added to the delete blacklist rule.

Some of the more fun mistakes I have gotten have been multiple years worth of tax documents from New South Wales, Wine Tastings in South Africa, Church Choir concerts in Germany, and resumes for a receptionist in Colorado at a Gym.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by johnnyo on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:07PM (#24308772)
I have a similar address and get a lot of similar email.

My personal favorite was a contract offer to play for a minor league baseball team in the Midwest a few summers back.

I also once got hired by the National Park Service for what sounded like a nice gig as a park ranger.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:36PM (#24309051)
Ohh yea I forgot that I got mailed a bunch of movie pass financial details while they were still a hot property! That was.. erm.. eye opening.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by jaredwiener on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:13PM (#24307375)
Likewise -- I fall firmly into this XKCD https://xkcd.com/1279/

My e-doppelgängers have priced cars across the state of Ohio, been active in the PTA, pursued higher education in Germany, and seems to always be interested in commercial real estate in the outer boroughs of NYC.

Though once -- I received an email asking me to please just apologize to my sister already.

I replied, "I think you have the wrong email address; I don't have a sister."

I saw a response -- "HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT? Your mother is crying." I thought it best to just walk away at that point.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:40PM (#24307717)
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by fishtacos on Saturday August 29, 2020 @08:00AM (#24315488)
Never thought it'd happen to me, having come across this topic before, but I'm happy to say I can join this club.

It's the same guy, who works in a Eastern European country, where I emigrated from.

The first instance, he was asking his supervisor to use his vacation time so he and family could make a trip to Mecca for Hajj. I chuckled and ignored it.

Second time random picture of some massive metal parts from what looked like some factory he works at.

Third time was this year, very recently and I received a pretty unnecessarily detailed email about how he had to turn back home because he had soiled himself while driving to work... That one made me worry he had gotten Covid.

I guess I'm this guy's boss now.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by saagarjha on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:45PM (#24307006)
That poor councilman…
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by lokar on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:43PM (#24310340)
Try having a 3 char username (@gmail), it never ends.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by djtriptych on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:18PM (#24307431)
almost positive 6 is the minimum character length for gmail addresses.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:36PM (#24307656)
See my comment above.. It is, I was a Gmail SRE that could circumvent the restrictions on that. =)
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by ahauxuueei on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:29PM (#24307566)
almost positive 5 + 5 > 6
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:42PM (#24307741)
nono.. its a single word that is common as a first and last name. There are a BUNCH of cases where its applicable! =)

But yea, 5 characters. I was an early gmail SRE so I was able to circumvent the restrictions. =)

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by anticensor on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:18PM (#24310079)
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Saturday August 29, 2020 @12:49AM (#24313642)
No.. but iirc I made that one at one point before abandoning it.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by bitbang on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:02AM (#24305711)
Same exact issue. Especially with people from Africa for some reason. I get a lot of stuff from 3 people from Kenya, Zimbabwe, and South Africa. Most everything there is managed by phone, and they just use my email as a throw-away address. The guy in South Africa has a collections agency after him. The guy in Kenya likes to order food delivery quite a bit. I occasionally change his order to extra spicy. The guy in Zimbabwe works for a college of some sort. I make sure he's signed up for all the educational trips to Europe.

Also some senior woman in Oregon, who is a frequenter of "silver singles".

Some industrial supply company in Canada is very confused by the fake Groupon I sent them for the free stuff they are trying to bill me for.

Some guy in Australia has his security deposit box setup with my address, and is way overdue on some payments.

(I've tried multiple times to correct the wrong email address of the people I mess with, and have been ignored)

Lots of US political junk mail, from many localities, both parties. LOTS AND LOTS OF KINKY PORN SITES.

Fortunately none of them have the dot in the address and I have a filter to send them all directly to trash.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by searchableguy on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:19AM (#24305902)
I don't receive any junk mails anymore after switching to my custom domain.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by justusthane on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:41AM (#24306165)
It’s weird, but that’s been my experience too. I switched off Gmail (where I got tons of spam, although most properly caught by the spam filter) several years ago, and have received fewer than 200 spam emails in total since switching. I know this because my new host won’t allow the personalized spam filter to be enabled until you’ve received 200 spam.

I’m not at all careful to keep my email address hidden on the internet either.

It never occurred to me that it might be due to being on a custom domain. I figured either I was just lucky, or that there’s less spam these days.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by amingilani on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:46PM (#24307782)
Eventually you start getting a bunch of spam. I feel most of mine originated from GitHub and data-leaks.

Tip: configure a catch-all to your email address, and use custom email addresses for every website. I love having e.g. [email protected] and being able to filter out bad email addresses whenever they become tiresome.

I've also configured Mailgun on the domain (not what it was intended for but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) so whenever I need to send an outgoing email from one of my custom addresses, I use their SMTP credentials.

At this point, I've been me@ amin@ heyamin@ and even [email protected].

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by kelnos on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:51PM (#24309202)
I'm the only email address on my domain, and I haven't set up a catch-all. I use my actual email address to sign up for anything that requires a signup. I don't have a junk account, and I don't use +-aliases. I don't hide my address; it's listed on my website, in my HN profile, and likely in a bunch of random places on the web, unobfuscated. In general, I just don't worry about it.

My GMail spam folder has around 10-15 messages in it per day. My inbox is nearly always fine. The nice thing that GMail does is sort promotional emails that it doesn't judge to be outright spam under the "Promotions" category, which I don't see unless I seek it out. That one still isn't that bad, on the order for 10 per day, but it is genuinely stuff I don't care to see.

If I were to move away from GMail (which is on my todo list), I'd have to figure out what to do about those. Likely they mostly have unsubscribe links; after a quick scroll down the list, I think it's nearly all from companies that I do have or had an existing relationship with.

I wish GMail had an "unsubscribe" button so I don't have to hunt through emails for their often-hidden unsubscribe link. Yes, I could click Spam and then "Unsubscribe + Mark Spam", but I really want just "Unsubscribe", but that's not an option.

I do have a fairly uncommon last name, so it's not something that spammers might accidentally put in a word list to use as an email domain, but overall I've just mostly not cared about "protecting" my email address, and it's mostly not been a problem. Is this entirely atypical? If so, I wonder why...

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by nicoburns on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:37PM (#24309664)
> Likely they mostly have unsubscribe links; after a quick scroll down the list, I think it's nearly all from companies that I do have or had an existing relationship with.

At one point I decided to actually hit the unsubscribe links rather than just archiving these emails. Turns out I was subscribed to nearly 200 different mailing lists. But there were only 1 or 2 that wouldn't let me unsubscribe.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by fanf2 on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:58PM (#24307978)
Setting up catch-all email addresses is a recipe to get absolutely inundated with spam.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by amingilani on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:57PM (#24308680)
Possibly, but I pipe my email through Gmail so I haven't noticed.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by rhn_mk1 on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:06PM (#24308107)
There doesn't seem to be a lot of undirected spam. No one seems to be harvesting git repos, for example.

I keep dedicated email addresses for most purposes, and the two that are getting any are a random mailing list, and the kickstarter address. That one has been caught in a vortex of spam, clearly meaning that kickstarter can't keep their mouths shut about customer emails.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Macha on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:09PM (#24308791)
I've got a catch all email redirect for my address. I do get a decent volume of spam these days.

Most of it goes to:

* admin@<mydomain>.com - listed in whois publicly for a few years, understandable

* <dropbox's address>@<mydomain.com> - started coming in 2014, the fact they were breached only became properly known in 2016.

* <my first name>@<mydomain.com> - This is the actual email address I give to in person contacts. Not quite sure how it ended up on spam lists, my best guesses are from a recruiter sharing it, git commits (though the fact the address I use way more commonly for git isn't there indicates probably not) or someone just figured it out.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by mendelmaleh on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:07PM (#24308773)
I'm pretty sure the campaigns get your email address, I often get emails directly from them.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by timvdalen on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:57PM (#24307152)
I think you are lucky, I get around 5-10 spam mails on my custom domain daily. Granted, my address has been in a few data dumps.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by xbmcuser on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:03PM (#24308739)
with all the data breaches spammers have millions of verified email addresses no need to scan the web for more.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by phasetransition on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:56PM (#24307950)
I, too, am 95% better after switching away from [email protected] to [email protected] and using g-suite on that domain for the last decade or so.

I gave up on Gmail for all the same reasons as the stories in this thread.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Kaze404 on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:02PM (#24308050)
Fortunately I have a rather unusual last name so I have [email protected]. It comes with the bonus of having it work for my future children as well :p
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by saagarjha on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:50PM (#24307064)
I get a couple emails a day, which is about how much I was getting when I was on Gmail. However, I have been much less careful with my address too–I think spammers might just be less likely to mail custom domains because those addresses might be more likely to be invalid.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by lowdose on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:31AM (#24306048)
> The guy in Kenya likes to order food delivery quite a bit. I occasionally change his order to extra spicy.

> The guy in Zimbabwe works for a college of some sort. I make sure he's signed up for all the educational trips to Europe.

Both made me laugh, you are a wild man!

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by makr17 on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:16PM (#24308224)
Yep, I live with this too... I thought it luck that I got <my_last_name>@gmail.com early on, turns out it was a curse. It's not a _common_ last name, but people with the last name seem to assume it is theirs, or maybe people miss the other letters in addresses they are given and just use the last name?

I used to get periodic emails from an elderly German couple giving me their train itinerary for their upcoming visit. I politely reply that I'm not their cousin, and consequently their cousin probably won't be there at the train station when they arrive. And then six months later it all starts again.

I have what I assume is a distant cousin on the east coast and I get an email with an invoice every time the pest control folks come out to his house to spray. No option to unsubscribe, and I've given up calling the company to let them know they have the wrong address.

There is a fellow in Quebec whose <first_inital><last_name> == <my_last_name>, and for a while I got monthly emails because someone was trying to wire him money. Again, no option to unsubscribe.

Lately I've started getting emails from universities interested in admitting another distant cousin in Oregon. I'm guessing some college lead-generation service crossed her name with my email (her/our last name). I haven't figured how to handle that one yet, I'm contemplating printing a few out and (snail) mailing them along with a note.

But I've had the address long enough that I don't want to let it go, so I guess this is all a necessary burden......

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by LatteLazy on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:06AM (#24304973)
You can filter your gmail based on the TO field (so anything without the dot goes to spam) if you like. I've done the same thing myself intentionally: I give the dot-less version to sites/companies where I need to receive an email or two (account confirmation etc). Then I manually grab them from spam and then forget the whole thing knowing I'll never see the other crap they send me.

Hope that helps, as someone with a common name I sympathize enormously.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by justusthane on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:44AM (#24306210)
You can also append “+whatever” to the username part of your gmail address and filter it that way.

E.g. [email protected]

Unfortunately some services won’t accept that as a valid address.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by gorbachev on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:06PM (#24309933)
I use this all the time, everywhere I can.

The worst example of "we know what are valid email addresses better than anyone" case was when adidas.com decided that they'd redesign their registration flow and in the process disabled logins with "invalid" email addresses when they previously had accepted registrations and logins with email addresses tagged with + for years. That was genius.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by jonpurdy on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:53PM (#24308633)
I wrote about this issue on my blog. Basically just using email aliases on a custom domain to enable per-provider filtering, and deletion of the alias if they ignore unsubscribe requests or get hacked. https://jonpurdy.com/2020/06/using-email-aliasing-to-detect-...
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by soulofmischief on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:57AM (#24306416)
And most email scrapers / aggregators these days also ignore the + and whatever comes after.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by godelski on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:57AM (#24306411)
Others strip it too
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by davidbarker on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:34AM (#24306067)
I've done this — I have a filter to move any email I receive without a dot into a "Not For Me" folder, which I periodically go through and usually send a canned response back about how they probably have the wrong person.

You can also automate this part, perhaps to reply with "You probably have the wrong person, but if it is actually for me I'll get back to you shortly".

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by iamthemonster on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:11AM (#24305790)
I have a fairly common first name and last name and I thought I was a genius when I jumped onto an early gmail invitation in (I think) early 2005 to bag my "[email protected]".

Now I realise I was a chump and should probably have just stuck with [email protected]

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Gibbon1 on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:41PM (#24310326)
> [email protected]

If you put that on your resume and they hire you, it's probably a good place to work.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by tzs on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:02AM (#24304928)
> But what mystifies me is how these people keep going for years without ever realising they aren't getting account transaction emails (from their banks), notifications of stock trades, even OTP emails etc. How is it possible for people to use these services for years without ever wondering why they aren't getting the routine emails they're supposed to get or even why they aren't getting the OTP email they had generated?

Perhaps they also get paper statements in the mail and text message notifications, and don't even know that they also are being sent redundant emails?

(It can go the other way, too. I think I've got some of my financial institutions configured to only send me email and text. If one was also still sending paper statements and those were going to the wrong address, I'd never notice).

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by wyldfire on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:26PM (#24307521)
> But what mystifies me is how these people keep going for years without ever realising they aren't getting account transaction emails

I put the blame squarely on those vendors. "well, we made them type it twice, what more do you want?" Please, please, just pretend it's a communications channel and close the loop!

Notes from BankCorp Ticket BUG-14333: "CIO saw some post on HN so we need to change the email validation. Make them type it three times."

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by pc86 on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:44PM (#24307764)
> But what mystifies me is how these people keep going for years without ever realising they aren't getting account transaction emails (from their banks), notifications of stock trades, even OTP emails etc.

Because they never received the first one, so it's not abnormal to miss the n emails after that.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by edgarvaldes on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:32PM (#24308399)
I think this is the real answer. For those people there is no disruption in communication, because it never begins in the first place.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by AdmiralAsshat on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:06AM (#24304976)
I've encountered the same problem. One day I'm going to stop being polite and cancel the Hotel Reservations, Conference Invites, and other shit that this guy keeps signing up for using my email address. Maybe that will get him to finally pay attention.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by RandomBacon on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:45AM (#24305487)
I imagine then you've probably gotten receipts/confirmations with the person's phone number. Have you tried calling him and letting him know?
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by shiftpgdn on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:02AM (#24305705)
I have a common name, also a name used by a huge construction firm. I own [email protected] and firstnamelastname.com . There is no hope for these people. I have tried everything under the sun to get them to give out the correct email address.

What I HAVE noticed is that it's usually transcription error. These people that share my name are writing down their email with a pen and paper and a secretary or transcription service is inputting it incorrectly. Lately I reply back to hotel confirmations asking for a complimentary hotel upgrade with lots of extra soap in the room.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by boring_twenties on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:53PM (#24307888)
Yeah that's not going to help. I've got a guy using my email address for close to a decade. When it started, he was a high school student ordering lacrosse equipment. More recently he was buying a house -- I received the contract.

If my email is [email protected], his is [email protected].

You'd think 10 years would be enough time to learn the difference, but nope.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by RandomBacon on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:13PM (#24309427)
That's when you start embarassing the person.

A group of students included my email address in their project discussion. They ignored my emails asking to remove my address. So I started replying as if I was a part of their project, but requested/suggested slightly stupid things. They figured it out real fast after that.

If you have the person's actual email, CC him on all that. If not, include a note saying your a different John Doe and to please remind the John Doe they want to reach, to use his own email address.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by AdmiralAsshat on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:59AM (#24305675)
You'd think so, but nope! In addition to the fact that about half the emails are in Spanish (my doppelganger appears to be a Central American doctor?), all of them seem to contain the bare minimum of info that would allow me to actually contact the person in question. And, ya know, you'd think a hotel or a financial institution that is notified they have someone other than the actual customer's email on file would be quick to correct that, yet so far I have never received so much as an acknowledgement from anyone that they will correct their records and try to seek out the account holder by other means.

I've marked most of them as Spam at this point, so hopefully Gmail's filters are simply learning to automatically send anything in Spanish to my Spam folder.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by ovulator on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:37PM (#24309061)
Have you tried emailing them? You have their email address apparently ;)
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by bluehatbrit on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:52AM (#24306346)
I have the same but it seems to be one specific person in Canada (I'm in the UK). I started getting emails about college prospectuses and applications, then I started getting them about library fines. I tried to email the library and inform them that they had the wrong email address and got nothing back. The latest has been emails from a car dealership trying to confirm some options for a new car.

I can't believe this person is missing so many emails that are presumably quite important to them. I can only assume they have the same first name as me but spelt differently and that other people are typing their address in wrong to various systems.

These days I just ignore every email like that, mostly for fear that one day I'll end up stuck with someone trying to hold me responsible for something.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by dripton on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:27PM (#24308357)
My gmail doppleganger signs me up for mostly animal charities and religious stuff. I keep unsubscribing and marking as spam. Sometimes I wonder if she does this on purpose, giving a "fake email" to people she doesn't want to deal with. If so, Diane, there's a real person with that email, and quit throwing all your spam at me.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by fortran77 on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:23AM (#24305934)
My gmail address is simply my lastname @ gmail.com

So I get a lot of emails meant for other people whose email is [email protected] where some sender drops the firstname and the dot for some reason.

I received airline reservations (where I can click and change seat assignments!), cancer diagnoses(!), wedding invitations, bank statements, real estate documents to verisign, all sorts of things.

I've been tempted to do things like switch the person's seat to a middle in the back by the bathroom, but while I've clicked through to see if I _could_ do it, I never actually completed it. I did once send my regrets to a wedding invitation.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by linuxftw on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:24PM (#24307500)
Probably best you didn't. Unauthorized use of a computer system, even if you have the credentials, is considered hacking, at least in the US.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by deathanatos on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:22PM (#24308302)
> But what mystifies me is how these people keep going for years without ever realising they aren't getting account transaction emails

The inverse happens too! Sallie Mae regularly snail mails me to tell me that the (snail mail) address they have on file for me — the same one they send this notice to — is undeliverable! I get all the normal mail (like account statements), too…

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by tialaramex on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:36PM (#24308447)
I get physical mail for a previous owner, even though I've lived here for five years. Usually I notice, I write "Not at this address" and cross through the address in Sharpie then shove it into a mailbox, per regulations.

More recently I forgot to check the front before opening. I realised when the contents were about a mortgage account, I don't like debt so I certainly wouldn't have a mortgage.

Apparently the previous owner still has a mortgage on this place, which would worry me if not for the fact I have monitoring set up so I know the Land Registry says it's mine, which means even if the idiot bank thinks they've got security for a loan they are wrong and the government will cheerfully tell a court of law that if asked. Hopefully they just didn't update the name of the mortgage and actually security is now in the form of some other property bought with the proceeds of the sale to me, but who knows, these idiots didn't understand "Not at this address" for five years.

I decided to call the bank about this mistakenly opened letter, but because of COVID they weren't usefully taking calls. I could remain in a queue for fifteen minutes and then get automatically dumped out with "We're sorry" if I wanted. So I just chucked the letter in the recycling.

If you need a recommendation for a Bank never to do business with in the UK (certainly not to trust with regards to where their customers live) it would be Halifax.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by armoredkitten on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:09AM (#24305770)
I get the same thing all the time. I think it's relatively common for people who signed up for Gmail early, and thus we able to get a bare named email (i.e., no numbers afterwards like john.doe420).

The weird thing for me is that it seems to be more than just a single person writing down the wrong email or using it for junk mail. I have gotten emails from places all over the US, a couple places in the UK, and in the past year or so from someone in France. And while some of it is junk mail, I've gotten emails about rental agreements, company emails, insurance policies...

I used to try to be nice and email people back and tell them they had the wrong person. Now I just delete them. It's not worth the time and effort. Unless it's a kind old lady sending an email to her grandson, it's getting deleted. Hopefully their insurance company or whoever will call them after not hearing a response. Unlike regular mail, there's no consistent "return to sender" function, so...deleted.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by abfan1127 on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:13PM (#24308184)
I get a guy's bank info from the east coast of the US. Recently, he started using Zelle. His Zelle activity was being emailed to me. One of his Zelle recipients used a phone number. I was able to call her, get his phone number and tell him about this issue. He still hasn't updated his email address. I don't get it...
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by knorker on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:39AM (#24306148)
I've sent a physical letter, when I got an electricity bill with a home address.

A week later I got an apology email, and the incorrect emails stopped.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by boogies on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:00AM (#24304904)
> At this point I'm sorely tempted to delete my email and start over with another service provider.

Why not? Or you could start over without deleting your current email and go into Gmail settings > Forwarding and POP/IMAP > Add a forwarding address, and make it forward all of your emails to your new provider, where it should be easy to sort all emails from your old address to a certain folder or tag that you only check and clean, say, once a week (for any senders that don’t have your new email).

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by agency on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:05AM (#24305737)
Same exact situation here. I have {commonFirstName}.{commonLastName}@gmail.com and get so much legit email without the dot for other people with my name. There’s at least a few of them - a retired vet, a substitute teacher in Ireland, a middle school student in Montana. And just this week I got some from a bail bond place for a kid in Texas that included his picture. I don’t understand how these people aren’t constantly confused about not getting emails they expect
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by newtoday on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:18PM (#24306691)
I've purchased a truck in Florida, been going to college in (I forget which state) for a few years now, opened an LLC AND filed for divorce with Legal zoom, was part of a venture partnership with multiple personal invite and discussion emails about investment meetings, and more! I've responded many times to these and the only replies are from the last one, and Legal zoom (who told me sorry, disregard it??)
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by mrcu5 on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:51PM (#24308614)
I'm confused. Do people just assume they can think of an email address and Google somehow knows and assigns it to them automatically?

Like they're signing up for something and put in "[email protected]" and think "My name is Santosh and I was born in '83. Google obviously knows this and will send me this email!" ????????

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by emberfiend on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:59PM (#24309278)
If you ever figure out why people do this or what their thinking is, let me know, but yeah this actually happens. I have a common name but a long and uncommon surname, and I have [email protected].

This GP from New Zealand signs up for EVERYTHING under my gmail account. A handful of it spam, but mostly important stuff - notifications for financial transactions make up most of the mails I receive.

I have called his offices repeatedly to try to discuss it with him, and even have a reasonable rapport with his secretary, but he never wants to take my calls.

I really cannot figure out why he does it.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by NiggaBytes on Friday August 28, 2020 @06:23PM (#24310910)
Is he in Auckland? If it's my GP I'll take it up with him for ya :P
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by pbhjpbhj on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:57PM (#24308684)
I can't see that being the case (except exceedingly rarely) but perhaps if they had "[email protected]" on an MS device and then got a device with Google mail they think their address is now "[email protected]"? Or they're just nuts ...
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by rhino369 on Friday August 28, 2020 @07:07PM (#24311424)
Could be something like this:

Had [email protected], but migrated to gmail and had to use something else. Then they misremember and hand out [email protected].

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by yakk0 on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:23AM (#24305200)
Same. The ones that surprise me are the credit card information or cell phone plans. I was able to contact the phone company and tell them to remove my address, but the credit card was an exercise in frustration. You can't get through without account or personal info. I just mark most of them as spam these days.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Red_Leaves_Flyy on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:43AM (#24305455)
Forward the email with the explanation you've given to abuse@<sender>. Most companies should have someone monitoring such an inbox. If that doesn't work I'd call the desk of the cto or shame them on Twitter.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by tjpnz on Friday August 28, 2020 @07:33PM (#24311637)
I share a name with a builder from Queensland and have been getting his email for years - loan applications, hardware receipts, updates about his rental properties, apprenticeship schemes - you name it. What's insane about it is how many people insisted they had the correct address when I used to follow up.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by richard_g on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:45AM (#24306226)
What's strange to me is why they thought that email address would work -- after all it's not their address. I've got years of emails from France for the same reason.

You can set up a filter for the incorrect version of your email address (any email to [email protected]) and get those out of your inbox.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by saagarjha on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:00PM (#24307193)
Lots of people don't understand how the Internet really works, or realize that there might be another person with the name of the person they're trying to contact.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by avel on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:20PM (#24309489)
You get financial emails, I got about $1,200 through quickpay / zelle via my email address.

Still waiting for them to contact me at the email _they_ used, to ask for their money back. I have no way of contacting them as the sender info is hidden.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by wycy on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:11AM (#24305037)
Reset their account passwords.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by eli on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:32AM (#24306054)
I’d rather not commit a federal computer crime thanks
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by kevin_thibedeau on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:19PM (#24306719)
They provided false credentials. The account is yours.

I did this once when someone created a Facebook account using my address. I let it go for a year and then did a password reset and deletion. At the time there was no requirement for email verification so the account was fully functional. Again, this is Facebook's responsibility to verify new accounts. A confirmation email link is last century's technology.

Moreover, what happens if this doppelganger is committing crimes via said account and investigators track you down from the email. It is in your best interest to eliminate these accounts. Kindly explaining the situation to non-existent customer support will get you nowhere.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by dotBen on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:54PM (#24307908)
They provided false credentials. The account is yours.

IANAL but I don't think it works like that. Ownership is not the same as control.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by kevin_thibedeau on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:09PM (#24308148)
Ownership was never established in the first place.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by dotBen on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:45PM (#24309735)
Sure it was. I create an account, accept the terms and condition and put in your email address, your phone number and your street address. It's still my account, I am the one that accepted the conditions (you would cry foul if you were bound by the conditions you didn't accept).
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by willcipriano on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:31PM (#24310208)
If you want to be legalistic then the person who used the wrong email is in violation of CAN-SPAM[0], though my guess is courts don't have the time for petty matters like this.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by dotBen on Saturday August 29, 2020 @02:49PM (#24318492)
Only if it was willful. We've kind lost the point of the OP but the example was accidental miss-typing and in my hypothetical above I meant accidentally
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by kevin_thibedeau on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:42PM (#24310330)
You have no legal business relationship with a service you've signed up for with no exchange of funds. An EULA is not a contract and they fully indemnify the service provider anyway. All you've done is initiate the creation of some database entries on someone else's property.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by dotBen on Saturday August 29, 2020 @02:50PM (#24318500)
You have no legal business relationship with a service you've signed up for with no exchange of funds.

Yeah, no. Peace out dude, I'm done here.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by eli on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:56PM (#24307934)
I don't think this analysis is legally or ethically correct and I certainly would not want to have to test it against the CFAA in court.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by tyingq on Friday August 28, 2020 @09:57AM (#24304876)
"they aren't getting account transaction emails (from their banks)"

I had a bank account I thought I had closed, but hadn't. Finally noticed and closed it 10+ years later. We moved around a lot.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by wnevets on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:29PM (#24306813)
I had someone open a bank account with my email and I called the bank thinking someone was stealing my ID or something. How do people not know their own email address?
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Izkata on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:53PM (#24309228)
I have someone using my email, who best guess doesn't understand Gmail and Twitter are two different things - they have the matching @name on Twitter.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by coredog64 on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:34PM (#24306865)
Same, but my concern is that some day one of these people will convince Google support that they own my account and then I will really be hosed.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by beowulfey on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:53PM (#24307881)
Why not filter? If you know you always use the dot, filter without the dot. It works for me when I tried to set it up. Can even blacklist certain senders specifically so that if there are a few out there you made without the dot you will still get them.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by mikelward on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:40PM (#24308493)
And that's why email senders need to do double opt-in.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by ses1984 on Friday August 28, 2020 @09:55AM (#24304847)
Set up a filter? Did you ever try to contact the institution where the emails come from?
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Santosh83 on Friday August 28, 2020 @09:58AM (#24304881)
Yes, I do have it filtered. And yes, contacted all the institutions. They don't bother at all in updating their records. And these are banks and other financial institutions. One would think they'd take the integrity of their data more seriously.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by mwexler on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:05AM (#24304964)
Yeah, this is a tough one. You can't just have random people saying "please change this email for another person" without permission, on one hand, but you violate other codes if it's clear you send med or financial info to the wrong people. That's why you get so little actual info in emails from bank and medicals these days.

But without a confirmation process to verify correct emails, this will continue as a fact of life, just like wrong phone numbers in the last generation, and wrong postal addresses in the gen before that.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by vidarh on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:19AM (#24305147)
Set it up to forward to their support e-mail addresses...
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by kadoban on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:09PM (#24309377)
You can set up filters in gmail to either automatically go to a different folder ("label" they call it), or to just delete them. It's not hard at all once you get used to the interface, and there's a wide variety of rule options.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by MaxBarraclough on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:20AM (#24305151)
There's an xkcd for everything. Sure, that's probably my email address.

https://xkcd.com/1279/

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:48AM (#24306265)
Annoyingly that is different, everything after the + is _ignored_ so only one person can have <first>+<any lastname>@gmail.com. Other people I am guessing use first.lastname and that is where the confusion is. =)
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by FabHK on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:01PM (#24308717)
The plus sign in the comic might just be meant to denote string concatenation (in other words, [email protected], not [email protected]).
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by tialaramex on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:50PM (#24308603)
The XKCD cartoon isn't talking about a literal plus symbol.

If you took it literally that would imply the actual email address is a single letter @gmail.com and although some ex-SRE people and others at Google have said there were ways to get short addresses for employees, nobody has suggested a single letter would be available even for them. For normal users the minimum was six characters.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by liquidgecka on Saturday August 29, 2020 @12:42AM (#24313610)
I created and removed several single letter emails as part of a test once, and I made several short names (mine, spam@, etc). The biggest problem was that too short would take the backend down because it received more mail than could be indexes at the time so too short or too common would get deleted to protect the system. As far as I know Randal still has his though. :-)

But yea your right about the plus I guess Ii didn't read it detailed enough.

Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by simonebrunozzi on Friday August 28, 2020 @11:57AM (#24306412)
Or, contact the legitimate recipient, and tell them to sue the bank.
Re:Dots don't matter in Gmail addresses by Tagbert on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:18PM (#24306701)
It’s very rare to have any other contact information for these people. It’s not like you can email them. :)