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Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by melling on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @03:43PM (#24275214)
Now the world needs to go after malaria in Africa.

Throughout the world a child dies every 2 minutes from malaria.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/08/infectious-diseases-c...

I’ve been to South Africa twice. Most other Subsaharan countries have large malaria problems.

Looking forward to that not being a problem in my lifetime.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Technetium on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:25PM (#24277444)
Florida is about to release 750 million mosquitoes genetically modified to die shortly after birth. Hopefully that's progress towards ending mosquitoes once and for all. Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/19/health/gmo-mosquitoes-approve...
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by zucked on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:27PM (#24277456)
Is that such a good idea? I find the idea of futzing with nature's systems in this way a bit concerning.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Junk_Collector on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:40PM (#24277538)
A hundred years ago, Malaria in the United States was bad enough to warrant a dedicated government office (It was folded into the CDC after WW2). This turned into a major eradication program through the use of DDT in the 1940's and by the 1950's Malaria was effectively eliminated from the states through the decimation of the mosquito population. Mosquitoes have of course rebounded over time, but malaria has not.

Mosquito release programs like this are now several decades old and have shown high efficacy with few environmental side effects where they have been tried. It is certainly more environmentally friendly than DDT. Meanwhile, the benefits are enormous and if done successfully in Africa could be directly measured in terms of human suffering.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by js2 on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @08:29PM (#24277834)
Indeed, I just recently learned, this is why the CDC is in Atlanta:

> On July 1, 1946 the Communicable Disease Center (CDC) opened its doors and occupied one floor of a small building in Atlanta. Its primary mission was simple yet highly challenging: prevent malaria from spreading across the nation. Armed with a budget of only $10 million and fewer than 400 employees, the agency’s early challenges included obtaining enough trucks, sprayers, and shovels necessary to wage war on mosquitoes.

https://www.cdc.gov/about/history/index.html

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by blnqr on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @08:58PM (#24277970)
If only the CDC would stick to work on communicable diseases
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dan-robertson on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:09PM (#24278031)
Their mandate changed. They are not the centre for disease control and prevention and they act in accordance with their mandate as a public health agency
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Naracion on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @11:33PM (#24278830)
I know this is a typo, but it reverses the meaning so clarifying for future readers in case it's confusing:

They are _now_ the centre for disease control and prevention

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by blnqr on Thursday August 27, 2020 @08:36PM (#24300273)
Yes, I know. I have friends there who are fantastic, smart, committed civil servants working within their mandate and structure. I have a Master's in Public Policy from the Kennedy School, I'm not anti-government. But mission creep has hurt the CDC more than helped the nation. Public health is far too big a remit for any one agency.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gvjddbnvdrbv on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:49AM (#24279845)
I'm confused I've never heard of it getting involved in anything else.

What do you mean?

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mhb on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @09:20AM (#24282185)
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gvjddbnvdrbv on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:04PM (#24284491)
I would tend to agree that they have no place talking about guns.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by js2 on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @05:47PM (#24287670)
Collecting gun-related injury and fatality data allows us to make evidence-based informed decisions about what types of legislation are likely to be effective to reduce harm. For example:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/the-3-gun...

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mhb on Thursday August 27, 2020 @07:42AM (#24292654)
And that has nothing to do with Disease Control and is a clear demonstration of mission creep. The CDC has recently displayed its incompetence regarding its core function. Maybe it should master that before addressing other issues of society which are, at best, only tenuously in its purview.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gvjddbnvdrbv on Thursday August 27, 2020 @09:34AM (#24293495)
Did they ask for this work or was it thrust on them because of political football?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mhb on Thursday August 27, 2020 @12:17PM (#24295186)
You have many questions. At first it seemed as if you were curious about what other aspects the CDC had delved into. Now it looks like you are pursuing some agenda. The basic questions can be answered with a bit of research. Here are some more to ponder. Or maybe these are what you are getting at.

What was the CDC's original mission?

Did it execute it competently?

Why is it now involved in areas other than communicable diseases?

Do people in organizations seek to increase their power and influence?

Do they do this by enlarging the scope of their organizations' missions?

How is this notionally science-based entity being influenced by other factors?

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gvjddbnvdrbv on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:13AM (#24302190)
Not exactly good faith here....

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293489 - my sibling comment to yours might clarify my opinion for you...

I actually suspect this role was thrust on the CDC because they are generally supported by everyone (everyone sane anyway). I'm not a fan of this having happened because they should be too important to get mixed into politically poisonous debates.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gvjddbnvdrbv on Thursday August 27, 2020 @09:33AM (#24293489)
I completely agree. There should be a government agency doing this. That agency should not be the CDC.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Broken_Hippo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:39AM (#24281494)
Well, don't they do other things that involve health? Like drinking guidelines and dietary guidelines and cancer research/information and things of that sort?

Still well within the realm of health and certainly affects communicable diseases (an unhealthy population is more prone to worse effects of disease).

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Broken_Hippo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:39AM (#24281496)
Why? What do they do that you oppose?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by throwaway0a5e on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @08:04AM (#24281633)
Public health is precariously close to politics in a lot of cases and it casts shade on their mundane and universally appreciated work on topics more directly related to disease.

That said, it'd kind of inevitable that they run a course like that because constantly doing good non-controversial work banks political capital and the politicians are gonna try to harness organizations like that for their own ends.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Broken_Hippo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:43PM (#24285006)
So, because some folks make it political, we shouldn't get facts about things like the HPV vaccine or the effects of birth control methods?

How, exactly, are folks (who are not versed in medicine) supposed to get this information from a trusted source?

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by jsinai on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:29AM (#24279428)
Question, why was DDT never tried in Africa if it was so successful in Florida and also in Italy after WW2? Why don’t we use DDT today? I’m curious to know the answers and have better understanding of the complexity of what makes eradicating malaria in Africa in the 21st century more complex than it was in the 1940’s and 50’s in other parts of the world.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Mvandenbergh on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @04:54AM (#24280533)
We do. DDT has never been banned for disease control, it was banned for indiscriminate agricultural use and by that time resistance was already developing anyway.

Successful eradication in Florida and Italy was based on aggressive source control (stagnant water), control of re-importation, and use of insecticides (including DDT) for outbreak control.

Airborne spraying of more targeted larvicides continues to be used in Florida and other places.

Malaria rates in rural areas of Africa are much higher than urban areas so urbanisation also plays a role.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by notriddle on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:43AM (#24279500)
> why was DDT never tried in Africa

It was used in Africa, at least in 2016.

http://chm.pops.int/Implementation/DDT/DDTMeetings/DDTEG6201...

> Why don’t we use DDT today?

You mean for agriculture? Because using DDT for disease vector control was never internationally banned (only banned at the national level).

It's banned in agriculture because it kills stuff other than the mosquitoes. In particular, its use is restricted by the "Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants". Persistent Organic Pollutants are pretty much as bad as they sound, and DDT is one.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by rmason on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:06AM (#24279626)
We don't use DDT today because of a book by Rachel Carson called Silent Spring.

http://www.rachelcarson.org/SilentSpring.aspx

Despite the environmental damage of DDT the Africans wanted to wipe out malaria first but were not able to purchase it in the quantities needed.

As late as 2004 leading newspapers editorialized that eradicating malaria in Africa outweighed the environmental damage

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/magazine/what-the-world-n...

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by heavyset_go on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:01AM (#24279898)
What Wikipedia has to say about this:

> Carson has been targeted by some organizations opposed to the environmental movement, including Roger Bate of the pro-DDT advocacy group Africa Fighting Malaria and the libertarian think tank Competitive Enterprise Institute; these sources oppose restrictions on DDT, attribute large numbers of deaths to such restrictions, and argue that Carson was responsible for them. These arguments have been dismissed as "outrageous" by former WHO scientist Socrates Litsios. May Berenbaum, University of Illinois entomologist, says, "to blame environmentalists who oppose DDT for more deaths than Hitler is worse than irresponsible." Investigative journalist Adam Sarvana and others characterize this notion as a "myth" promoted principally by Roger Bate of the pro-DDT advocacy group Africa Fighting Malaria (AFM).

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mrpopo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:22AM (#24279704)
> As late as 2004 leading newspapers editorialized that eradicating malaria in Africa outweighed the environmental damage

This doesn't make sense. Eradicating malaria in Africa is beneficial to the human species. Environmental damage applies to all other species. I don't understand how one could "outweigh" the other. They are just two different objectives.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by ben_w on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @04:33AM (#24280405)
Environment also includes the crops, the insects that pollinate the crops, the pests which eat the crops, the predators that keep the crop-eating pests under control, the fish…

We’re not (yet) beings of pure thought who can exist independent of our environment, so the damage to the environment does have to be counted before we decide if something is net-positive.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dtech on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:23AM (#24281389)
of course they are related. Take a preposterous example: draining the mediterranean sea would be an environmental disaster which we wouldn't do. But if it would forever end world hunger, poverty and disease we would do it. The trade-off changes.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gostsamo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:55AM (#24279556)
It is devastating chemical, killing not only insects, but all kinds of other creatures. It is one of the reasons for the writing of "Silent Spring". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by xyproto on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:54AM (#24279550)
Some of the people promoting DDT drank spoonfuls of it to prove how safe it was, but it turned out to be very toxic to nature.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcXXbuR244

> DDT was less effective in tropical regions due to the continuous life cycle of mosquitoes and poor infrastructure. It was not applied at all in sub-Saharan Africa due to these perceived difficulties.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT#Use_in_the_1940s_and_195...

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by giardini on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:09AM (#24279644)
jsinai asks>* Why don’t we use DDT today?*<

See "DDT":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by culturestate on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:33PM (#24277500)
We’ve been committing mass murder of mosquitos for decades and, as far as I know, nobody has ever found evidence that it’s problematic. Mosquitos seem to be one of the few truly unnecessary (and universally unwanted) bits of the natural order.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by rrrrrrrrrrrryan on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:49PM (#24277603)
I've read that some bird populations might suffer, but even ecologists will admit that mosquitos aren't particularly vital to any one species, and the elimination of mosquitos as a primary disease vector may even be a net-positive for the animal world.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by KMag on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @06:36PM (#24288101)
On top of that, only a small number of mosquito species carry malaria or dengue. Granted, I'm not sure how well we've studied cross-species fertility in mosquitoes (and thus risk of genetic solutions jumping the species barrier), but if we're able to very selectively exterminate this small number of species, my understanding is that the remaining mosquito species would expand to fill any ecological gaps.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by tylerhou on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @11:09PM (#24278702)
Allegedly, there are only a few strains of mosquitos that bite humans/mammals. So if we remove those strains, the other ones will take their place.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by zucked on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:50PM (#24277608)
I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but are they not a significant source of food for any predator such that their elimination wouldn't be noticed?

I'm reluctant to be playing god on this front, especially in light of the fact that it seems like the insect population is not doing well, globally, and forms the base for a complex food chain.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by tombert on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @08:55PM (#24277952)
Did you not read the parent comment that you're?

For decades we have been performing a semi-eradication effort for mosquitoes for decades, and we have not noticed a substantial change that can be considered a result of that.

I understand hesitation to muck with nature, but I think it's sort of a privileged position to have when you live in an area where malaria and West Nile are not a serious risk. Malaria kills a lot of Africans every year (400,000+ [0]), and I'm not sure how much hesitation I'd have towards eradication if anyone in my family died from it.

[0] https://www.who.int/gho/malaria/epidemic/deaths/en/

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by maxerickson on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @08:55PM (#24277956)
The majority of mosquitoes don't seek out the humans. We attack the mosquitoes that seek out the humans.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by modmans2nd on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @08:08PM (#24277726)
Bat eat mosquitoes
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by pzone on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:35PM (#24278160)
That’s more something bat enthusiasts say to get people to like the critters. In reality insectivorous bats primarily eat larger, easier to catch prey like moths.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by em3rgent0rdr on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:50AM (#24280158)
Given the small size of mosquitoes, restrictions imposed on prey detectability by low frequency echolocation, and variable field metabolic rates, mosquitoes may not be available to or profitable for all bats. [1]

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3795000/

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Broken_Hippo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:42AM (#24281510)
Sure, some do. But I don't think any bats eat only mosquitoes. As long as there are enough insects to eat, I think they'll be fine.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by libraryofbabel on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:53PM (#24278258)
Humans have been “futzing with nature’s systems” and transforming or destroying ecosystems since the agricultural revolution, or before. This particular futzing is targeted, subject to careful scientific study, and if scaled out globally, has a fair shot at ending one of the greatest causes of human misery in the history of the world. What exactly are you concerned about?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by fpgaminer on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:17AM (#24279368)
I fall on the GMO is good side of the fence. I agree that careful science is far safer than the billion year "let's try random shit and see what sticks" experiment that nature runs. However, if I were to articulate my fears about experiments like these it would be to say that mankind's skill is a double edged sword. We've built a tool that quickly and effectively spreads and wipes out a species. That's the good side of the sword. In the off chance we messed up, missed something important... well now it's a quick and effective tragedy. That's the other side of the sword.

For me the equation is tilted pro-GMO because I see the alternative of letting nature run its course as a 100% certainty that a current tragedy continues to unfold.

So I'll continue to support GMO experiments like this. I just might have my fingers crossed, in case our D20 roll is bad and the kill gene jumps into the Zika virus and then into humans...

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by op00to on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:00AM (#24281273)
Genes don’t “jump” like that.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by CWuestefeld on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @01:47PM (#24285069)
Sure they do:

Horizontal gene transfer (HGT) or lateral gene transfer (LGT) is the movement of genetic material between unicellular and/or multicellular organisms other than by the ("vertical") transmission of DNA from parent to offspring (reproduction). HGT is an important factor in the evolution of many organisms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by nemacol on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @10:03PM (#24278322)
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea...

A similar story that I found absolutely amazing is the story of the screwworm and its eradication from the US. Not the whole world, mind you (which feels foolish long term).

I am not trying to make a point. This discussion made me think of it and I wanted to share.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by newyankee on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @11:13PM (#24278723)
By that logic, no modern technology should be adopted. However i am sure ecologists have studied in depth the impact this might have on the food chain or other dependencies and have mostly found mosquitoes to be completely useless and hopefully the test cases prove the same.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by aaronblohowiak on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:57PM (#24277651)
There are multiple kinds of mosquitos only a few carry human-infectious disease. It is my understanding that displacing Aedis Egypti (probably spelled wrong sorry) would not materially wipe out the ecological niche
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by op00to on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @06:59AM (#24281265)
The mosquitos that cause malaria are invasive and not native to Florida. Eradicating them is returning the environment to it’s pre invasive state.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by ForHackernews on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @06:43AM (#24281178)
We have done it successfully with screwworms: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/05/flesh-ea...
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by CodeGlitch on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @10:33AM (#24282835)
I'm OK to futz with nature to stop children dying.

See the "appeal to nature fallacy" [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by praveen9920 on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:19AM (#24280000)
In the words of Dr. Ian Malcolm of Jurassic park

"Life finds a way"

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by rdevsrex on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:02AM (#24281280)
After recently re-watching the original Jurassic Park, I definitely agree with you :)
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mrfusion on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @10:40PM (#24278533)
Malaria is nature too.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by bmcn2020 on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:23AM (#24279708)
2020 is already such a weird mish-mash of movie genres, I don't know if I want to add zombie-mosquito horror to that list
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by social_quotient on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @04:29AM (#24280387)
Thx for saying this, I had the same thought a couple days ago and wasn’t sure where to make a joke (but serious) about it.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by safog on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @10:19AM (#24282691)
For anyone who wants a good documentary about gene drives, bio hacking, crispr etc., the netflix series unnatural selection is a great watch.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80208910

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by pvaldes on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @06:14PM (#24287917)
The plan worked fine in "Mimic". Collapsing the fisheries in Florida will be a surprising twist plot. Will they cast Sorvino this time?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by coldpie on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @03:46PM (#24275268)
> Now the world needs to go after malaria in Africa.

They are. Take a moment to celebrate this victory :)

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by melling on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @03:54PM (#24275348)
We are so close to wiping polio out globally. Bill Gates has been trying hard. A few cases in Asia every year and we’re done.

Probably less than 100 globally in a few countries. Bill Gates will get it.

Anyway, while it’s great, and we should be happy, 400,000 kids will die from malaria in Africa this year.

We could do more to save millions of lives over the next 10 years.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by strictnein on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:42PM (#24275846)
Bill Gates is also very, very heavily involved with defeating Malaria in Africa.

His foundation has spent $2.9 Billion so far on it.

https://www.gatesfoundation.org/what-we-do/global-health/mal...

[dead]
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by ehsankia on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:58PM (#24276670)
> I dont know

Well good thing you started with that since you are clearly not familiar with him at all. He is very very well read and highly involved with the charity.

[dead]
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dctoedt on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @06:18PM (#24276888)
> but he fucked america first

I dunno: He played a crucial role in a long-term, industry-wide collaboration that resulted in practically every household having at least one computer. And for years he's been devoting his fortune and his intellect to solving global-scale problems. That has gotta be worth some redemptive value for past sins, yes?

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mcv on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:09AM (#24279951)
His fight against disease certainly does a lot to redeem him in my eyes. I was never a fan of him in his Microsoft days, and I'm still not a fan of Microsoft or their products, though they stand out less today because the other Big Tech companies are just as bad in various ways. Remember when we all loved Google and Apple? Windows is still terrible, though, and not fulfilling the promise of what should be possible with computers.

I also remember how we laughed when his Encarta encyclopedia tried to sell Bill Gates as widely known as a philanthropist. It wasn't true then, but it is true now. He certainly deserves that credit.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by jacobwilliamroy on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @05:21AM (#24280676)
It's as if the entirety of computing would be better off today if Microsoft had been broken up back in 2001, and the world wasn't forced to suffer through decades of windows stagnation.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by globular-toast on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:58AM (#24281592)
People are simple and need a single figure to worship. Gates is an example of that.
[dead]
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dllthomas on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:30AM (#24279759)
This is a nit, and should not be taken as engaging with the substance of your comment, positively or negatively:

"Antitrust" are the laws designed to break up monopolistic "trusts". So far as I am aware, Bill Gates only ever had costs from any antitrust operation, legal or illegal.

[dead]
[dead]
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by strbean on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @10:16PM (#24278395)
I mean, it's pretty hard to argue it isn't his property at this point.

And overall, he stole from the rich and is giving to the poor.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by EGreg on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:49PM (#24275926)
All these anti vaxxer people are also pushing HCQ ... but it actually does prevent Malaria. If not for the side effects that compound over time, if the body was able to flush it out somehow, it could be very useful, no?

That or finding ways to sterilize all anopheles mosquitoes, or do other mosquitoes carry it also

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dnautics on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:54PM (#24275988)
IIRC malaria in africa is basically totally resistant to HCQ by now. There's places where resistance to Artemisinin is a thing.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by robbiep on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @06:26PM (#24276975)
It’s called the advancement of science and it’s one of the reasons it is not generally a frontline treatment (because we have more effective treatments now, as well as resistance).

You might as well say that a person is too phlegmatic and needs bleeding when they have gallstones.

The world moves, move with it

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by MaximumYComb on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:42PM (#24276511)
It's because he is looking long term. Once you eradicate polio then it's gone forever. If he stops now to save more children from malaria instead then polio will return and the work so far wasted.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:22AM (#24280012)
Could a disease (I just read it's a virus, til) like polio "spontaneously" reform or re-evolve if it's eradicated completely?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by skinkestek on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @04:18AM (#24280320)
No. Once all "blueprints" of a disease (its RNA or DNA) is gone it is gone.

In a worst case nature comes up with a similar one by mutating something similar, but then it is still a new thing.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by ClumsyPilot on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:20AM (#24281372)
Well, the dodo bird hasn't re-elolved yet, and beither did smallpox.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gus_massa on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @08:54AM (#24281953)
The evolution of exactly the same illness is difficult[1].

Polio is an Enterovirus[2]. There are many virus in that family, and most of them cause only a mild stomachache and fever. A week later you forget that you where ill. Moreover, in the 95% of the case the Polio virus only cause the same symptoms instead of the paralysis.

One of the other virus can evolve and start to cause an illness that is very similar to Polio and we can decide to call it Polio, or PolioII, or some acronym like SPGWSPLI or something like that[3].

Nobody is sure about the cause of Acute flaccid myelitis [4], but it is somewhat similar to Polio and it is probably caused by an Enterovirus too. If something like that cause a big outbreak, we will hopefully make a vaccine and eradicate it too.

[1] Where "difficult" means "almost impossible, but there is a chance".

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterovirus

[3] Old illness have cool names. I hope we can eradicate them all, but they have cool names like "Cholera". New illness get a bland acronym.

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_flaccid_myelitis

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by brudgers on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:49PM (#24276579)
Bill Gates got involved with polio via $100 million matching fund to Rotary International about a decade ago. It was one of the foundation’s early healthcare initiatives and leveraged several decades of work by Rotarians around the world...polio eradication was the major project of Rotary at the time.

Malaria is different in that there was not the same level of eradication infrastructure to leverage and different because it touches on drinking water and food chains in the non-human environment. Malaria is not mostly a vaccine distribution problem.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by HiroshiSan on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:14PM (#24276209)
Not to take anything away from Bill, but why isn't Melinda mentioned just as much in these types of conversations?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by JamesBarney on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @06:06PM (#24276764)
Are you really curious?

It's the same reason that if Oprah took her billions to try and solve some global problem with her husband Stedman, many mentions of the work they were doing would not mention Stedman.

One is a famous individual who built up an obscene fortune, and the other person is married to them. And despite how involved their partner is deploying that wealth for the good of the world, people are just not going to mention the less famous one who didn't build up the fortune as often.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:24AM (#24280019)
It's the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation, so it would be apt to credit them both; erasing her does not do her, her work and her achievements justice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melinda_Gates#Awards_and_recog...).
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by JamesBarney on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @12:50PM (#24284303)
The question was "Why isn't she mentioned?" He did not ask "Would it be apt to mention her?" "Should you also mention Melinda when referring to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation?" The answers is yes to both of these questions. She is an impressive person who has accomplished much in her life.

He did this (I assume) to imply the reason she was not mentioned was because she was a woman and not because of the large and obvious disparity in fame.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by HiroshiSan on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:25AM (#24292097)
Just to clarify I didn't mention it because she was a woman but because she seemed to be an equal and important partner in the foundation but the accomplishments always seemed to land in Bills corner.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by blnqr on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:02PM (#24277990)
Oprah Winfrey is not married to Stedman Graham
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by JamesBarney on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @12:51PM (#24284309)
Whoops, I misremembered.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by graeme on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @06:06PM (#24276766)
There are many reasons, but one specific to Hacker News is that Bill Gates writes articles that are posted on Hacker News.

Bill Gates also regularly gives speeches. I checked and Melinda doesn’t have any on youtube since 2013.

So Bill is very much the public face of the foundation, even though Melinda is equally active and her name is in its name.

Not the only reason, but worth pointing out a prominent benign one.

For instance, a parallel example is how ycombinator is often mentioned as being founded by Paul Graham, and Jessica Livingstone is left out. Why? Partly sexism of course. But Paul also was the public face of YC with his essays.

And we have evidence it’s not just sexism, because YC had four founders

> by Paul Graham, Jessica Livingston, Trevor Blackwell, and Robert Tappan Morris.

I think the second two are even less well known than Jessica Livingstone, and this correlates with how much public writing and speaking she’s done as the face of YC and about startups.

(There’s a whole other discussion to be had about whether women are chased out of the public sphere, but this comment is long enough)

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by gowld on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:40PM (#24277539)
How is it sexism at all?

What "ism" is the reason reason Warren Buffett is more famous than Charlie Munger?

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Miraste on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:02PM (#24277994)
Char-ism-a?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Simon_says on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:20AM (#24281369)
Oh, Robert Morris is quite notorious, rivaling PG.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by graeme on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @10:56AM (#24283023)
For bring a yc founder though? And if you read articles back in the day mentioning who YC was founded by?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Simon_says on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @09:15PM (#24289217)
Second sentence of his Wikipedia page says what he is best known for:

> He is best known for creating the Morris worm in 1988,[3] considered the first computer worm on the Internet.[4]

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by graeme on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:48PM (#24297143)
That was my point: when people think of yc founders, they think paul graham, not robert morris. Even though morris has fame in general.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by loco5niner on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:53PM (#24297206)
Never heard of him
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Simon_says on Friday August 28, 2020 @01:13AM (#24301559)
Get off my lawn.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by pacaro on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @08:21PM (#24277798)
This is a reasonable question, and my understanding is that Melinda was the prime mover behind starting the foundation and pushing Bill to look outward. But that notwithstanding Bill has almost always been the public face, and one has to suppose that is an intentional choice
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by pm90 on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @06:01PM (#24276697)
He is the public face of the foundation, giving ted talks and tweeting about it etc.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by zapdrive on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:47PM (#24276552)
Why should she be?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by hu3 on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:31PM (#24275765)
I often see citations of Bill Gates charity being downvoted to oblivion on HN and I can never figure out why.

Would appreciate if someone could enlighten me. Surely there must be a good reason.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by woodruffw on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:46PM (#24275899)
I didn't downvote this (and don't generally do so), but here's a line of reasoning that might explain it: something has to go seriously wrong in the world for the lives of millions of people to be contingent upon the charitable sentiments of one obscenely wealthy man. Put another way: regardless of whether he's doing good, it shouldn't be the case that polio eradication depends on his material wealth.

Celebrating the beneficial outcomes of Bill Gates' charity without reflecting on why he's able to give away billions of dollars without breaking a sweat invites us to ignore the fact that the system that enriched Bill Gates doesn't actually encourage him to do any good (and actually involved him doing quite a lot of harm).

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by rowanG077 on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:19PM (#24276258)
I have the opposite sentiment. Things have been going extremely right for a single person to be able to go out and destroy issues that literately thousands upon thousands of people are affected by. Since governments of the developed world are mostly democratic no action to fix those issues in other countries is taken. This would have not otherwise been possible.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by woodruffw on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:02PM (#24277274)
To be clear: it is good, morally speaking, for Bill Gates to contribute to the effort to eliminate polio. The observation is that Gates' ability to do so (i.e., his profound wealth) is completely unfixed to any good he produces: he could just as easily use his wealth for morally bad ends.

In others words, we're extraordinarily lucky that this particular ultra-wealthy person has decided to do good things with (some) of their money. But grounding moral and humanitarian progress on a steady stream of luck seems shortsighted.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by rowanG077 on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:30PM (#24277481)
I don't think it's luck. A significant part of the very rich are donating huge amounts to charity. With the giving pledge being the most clear example.

It's most certainly not a fluke that the mega rich are solving problem governments can't or won't.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by woodruffw on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:11PM (#24278043)
> It's most certainly not a fluke that the mega rich are solving problem governments can't or won't.

There is no "can't or won't" on a global scale: some countries have, others haven't as a function of their means. The fact that ultra wealthy individuals have better means than entire countries is an indictment of the state of affairs, not praise.

Edit: To elaborate on the above: eradicating polio isn't something that democratic, liberal countries are uniquely good at. Autocratic and despotic governments have also historically been good at it and have aggressively pursued it, because paralyzed citizens just aren't very useful. Countries that don't pursue eradication are historically ones that just lack the means (whether that's money, or infrastructure, or whatever), not ones with specific political structures.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by rowanG077 on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:48PM (#24286482)
> There is no "can't or won't" on a global scale: some countries have, others haven't as a function of their means.

That is exactly "can't or won't". The USA or China certainly "can" fix these issues in Africa if they want to but they "won't". But the African countries themselves obviously don't have this capability thus they "can't" fix it.

> The fact that ultra wealthy individuals have better means than entire countries is an indictment of the state of affairs, not praise.

Why is this an indictment. This is not self evident at all to me. The opposite is true from my perspective. This story and initiatives like the giving pledge very clearly show me that that the mega rich are doing things no country is doing. And thus these problem would remain unsolved if they would not be here.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dbmikus on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @11:55PM (#24278952)
Charities like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation tend to be one of the charities that critics of rich philanthrophy actually exclude. The common argument is that such philanthropic endeavors should not be at the whims of the rich, but should rather be run by the government and the rich should be more greatly taxed by the government to secure those funds.

However, The Gates Foundation tends to fund programs in developing countries where those countries's governments are not capable of funding it themselves.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by zaphar on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @08:37AM (#24281824)
It helps that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has a hyper focus on outcomes and a track record of delivering. It's an example of what is possible to accomplish when philanthropy is done well.

While I can understand and in some sense agree that it's unfortunate our current best solution to tackling some of these problems is for someone with a lot of resources and no bureaucratic entanglements to focus on solving the problem once and for all. I can also recognize that few governments are capable of solving it regardless of political philosophy.

I'm more than happy to celebrate a solution that works today over a hypothetical solution that hasn't been successfully deployed yet. Maybe I'm too pragmatic.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:34AM (#24280074)
I hear what you're saying, but, who or what organization would else would do it? Individual countries struggle with it because, amongst other reasons, they're not as wealthy or stable as the US and Europe was when they beat (in this case) polio; they struggle to stay afloat, and they have bigger concerns for their people, base necessities like water, food and housing.

The UN? They (to me / personal viewpoint / citation needed) don't seem to have any power, influence, means or goodwill to handle a problem like this. I mean they have never been as silent as they are now, while China and the US have literal concentration camps, Russia is assassinating political opponents and is encroaching on other countries - directly (Ukraine) or indirectly (influencing governments, heavily influencing destabilizing decisions like Trump's election or Brexit), the US is in a civil war and on a crash course towards a fascist dictatorship, currently working towards a sham election, actively undermining postal services so mail voting will not work so that Trump can go "Well shit is fucked, I'll just stay on a bit longer to fix this for you" and declare national martial law so that the army can beat down whoever objects.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by hnick on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:47PM (#24278228)
AKA don't have the player, hate the game.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by abraae on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:45PM (#24276536)
Bill gates did indeed do "quite a lot of harm" to many businesses and I have cursed his name many times while wrestling with some Microsoft chicanery.

But that harm was done to competitors, on the business field. The people who became collateral damage could always go and get jobs at some other company. The companies suffered and sometimes died but such is the way of capitalism.

If the upside was that his money gets redistributed to the genuinely poor and needy, who don't have any opportunity to earn for themselves in some cushy IT job, then I'm personally OK with it.

(I forget the specifics, but a piece of ancient code we wrote included a dummy assignment to a variable called BILLGATESBOLLOCKS, to get around some MS devilment).

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by pm90 on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @06:04PM (#24276737)
It’s good that he’s a billionaire that uses his wealth for truly great humanitarian causes. However, he is an exception and most billionaires don’t do this. And they probably shouldn’t have to, if we created a system that doesn’t allow for this kind of obscene enrichment of individuals.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by renata on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @08:28PM (#24277828)
Personally I trust Bill Gates to do more good with his money than the US Government. Eradicating polio in other countries seems very much preferable to bombing them into democracy.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by pm90 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:10AM (#24292001)
That’s a false dichotomy. The WHO and other International aid organizations were founded and funded at the direction of the USG. The US continues to fund humanitarian causes around the globe. Gates himself has said that Government funding is essential to the causes he’s interested in.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by CWuestefeld on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:02PM (#24285252)
he is an exception and most billionaires don’t do this.

Citation required.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by pm90 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:06AM (#24291973)
No.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by petra on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:29PM (#24276369)
Given the incentives, isn't this a Robin Hood story ? Bill Gates, Robbing the rich to give to the poor ?

But the problem is that we are those rich people. We as tech people have suffered under the microsoft monopoly. Heck, we still suffer, from the horrors of windows 10, to browser incompatibilities, etc.

So we hate Microsoft. So it's hard to love Bill.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by vlunkr on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:45PM (#24276534)
Never has the phrase "first-world problems" been so applicable.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by belval on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @10:32PM (#24278500)
How could these Africans ever comprehend the pure dread of being forced to develop for IE6? /s

So what if he did "terrible" stuff 25+ years ago? I am sure no-one in this thread would give 90%+ of their personal wealth to humanitarian work such as these. People just like to complain.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by thinkloop on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:26AM (#24279741)
Please, 90% of a 100 billion (that is currently growing faster than he can spend it) is not a fair comparison. Money is worthless once you've bought everything you want.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by james_s_tayler on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @05:11AM (#24280620)
>Money is worthless once you've bought everything you want.

Not true, for what some people want is power and they continuously dish out money to get it.

It's often used as a vector to create a lot of the world's problems. I'm pretty happy to see it used the other way. A win is a win.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by belval on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @11:53AM (#24283611)
I understand where you are coming from, but he could have some stupid mega-doomsday-underwater-mansion project for the ultra-rich, instead he's doing this, why not appreciate it?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by thinkloop on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:29PM (#24285614)
100%, just criticizing parent about how you and I not donating 90% of our wealth is different
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by alexilliamson on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @11:15PM (#24278731)
I would
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by koonsolo on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:51PM (#24276596)
It has everything to do with people's perspective of the world: rich people cannot be good people. If you gain something, somebody else needs to lose something. So for a rich person to get rich, he must have taken a lot from other, "nicer" people.

Bill gates must really love swimming "uncle scrooge"-style in his billions. That's all he cares about. Everything he does must be to gain more billions, so he can swim in a bigger pool.

Bill was also super competitive, so let's focus on that and forget that he made his money providing value to users and businesses. It's better to act like he stole the money in an unfair way.

I personally feel very sad for a person that can't imagine that someone else could feel happy and satisfied by helping others, by having a huge impact on peoples lives in a positive way. I'm sure Bill and Melinda get more satisfaction of helping other people than looking at numbers on their bank account. But hey, that's not possible because he's rich, and therefore evil.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by hu3 on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:29PM (#24277477)
That makes sense. It's specially telling that the top voted reply to my message says Bill Gates donated Billions "without breaking a sweet". Clearly that person never read about his personal involvement and time commitment to numerous researches and social programs. It's 100% prejudice.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by phenkdo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @09:51AM (#24282431)
Thanks for sharing this viewpoint. This is the cancel culture run amok. While these people might very well be well-meaning, their ideological purity tests often end up being just sanctimonious holier-than-thou rants and tantrums.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by phenkdo on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:07PM (#24276117)
It is at its core, the issue of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Bill might be an imperfect angel, but he is an angel nonetheless in spending his fortune to help millions/billions out of abject poverty and suffering. That dwarfs almost any effort by other people.

You could psychoanalyze this as acts of redemption, guilty conscience, seeking further world domination or whatnot, However it's undeniable he's helped many, many people and far, far,far more than his keyboard detractors ever would or could. And that's a very good thing IMHO.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by _jal on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:57PM (#24276661)
People dislike him for a number of reasons. I despised his actions through most of his tenure at M$. He destroyed some things I cared about and tried hard to destroy others, and I was nowhere near them and didn't use their products.

I'm not really big on the idea of 'redemption' - my actions today do not erase what I've done in the past. But he has lived a pretty decent life since then, and tried to do good things. So good on him.

Others hold grudges longer.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dylz on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:46PM (#24275896)
My assumption is that there are people that dislike how Gates earned his money.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by koonsolo on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:33AM (#24279776)
By running a successful business? Some people really need to get a proper perspective on this. Did he bribe people? Did he extort people?

Yeah, he was running a competitive business where he took advantage of his market position... just like any other business.

But oh, "I love my iPhone, and Steve Jobs is therefore my hero. So Apple is good because it loves it's customers".

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by dtheodor on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @04:42AM (#24280456)
He bribed people for sure. Microsoft products had completely overtaken the public sector IT of several countries back in the 90s/00s. To get into the public sector of several third-world and not so third-world countries, bribing is more or less mandatory, business as usual. We've seen scandals like these dozens of times with all kinds of big companies. Bribing to get big public infrastructure projects from companies like Siemens, bribing to get pharma machinery into public hospitals. No such scandal was ever published for Microsoft that I know of, but this is how things work.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by spacephysics on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:56PM (#24276005)
Without disclosing my opinions/take on Bill Gates, I think some see his charity as a means to gain power in specific regions to [insert conspiracy theory].

A tangentially related matter I see cited more often than not in these circles, are about an uptick in vaccine-caused paralysis occurring in India, causing the foundation to be kicked out.

The argument being that an uptick in “non-polio acute flaccid paralysis” (NPAFP) was recorded in areas where the oral vaccine was distributed, and this subsequently got the foundation “kicked out of India” (quoted because, as source below states, this is false) [0]

[0] https://fullfact.org/online/gates-polio-vaccine/

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by AndrewBissell on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:28PM (#24276362)
There's no need to refer to "conspiracy theories" (although Bill Gates's close ties to Jeffrey Epstein after his 2007 trafficking conviction did not do him any favors there). The ulterior purposes of the Gates Foundation are pursued mostly in the open:

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundat...

https://www.cjr.org/criticism/gates-foundation-journalism-fu...

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mullingitover on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @06:17PM (#24276878)
That The Nation article seems to be implying that Gates is dodging his civic duties to pay taxes and support nice things like public infrastructure, but at the same time he's also avoiding paying for terrible things like funding the military which bombs things like weddings and Médecins Sans Frontières hospitals.

Gates has done some shady things in his day, but I can't fault him for that one. His fortune is a drop in the bucket of the federal budget, but being able to control and target his charity makes a hell of a lot of difference in the world. It's not like the federal government was going to cure polio in Africa, but for a few billion more dollars in tax revenue.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by soperj on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:35PM (#24276422)
Because it doesn't just do good. It's completely screwed up public education in the states for instance.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by manigandham on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @09:49PM (#24278241)
How so?
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by soperj on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @11:47AM (#24283522)
They're responsible for common core.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by monetus on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:47PM (#24275907)
I would assume there to be a multitude of bad reasons, but as for a good one.. If you forced me to pick one driving one, the perception that he is laundering his reputation through philanthrophy would hopefully be it.

A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad the good.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by strictnein on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:52PM (#24275955)
His reputation didn't really need "laundering". He ran a software company, sometimes aggressively, but people act like he ran a private military corporation and trafficked in blood diamonds.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by vlunkr on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @05:38PM (#24276468)
Agreed, outside of unix-like tech circles, I don't know that his reputation was ever that bad.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by monetus on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @07:05AM (#24281291)
I would say the negative perception extends pretty far past unix-like tech circles, now at least.
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by tonfa on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:47PM (#24275908)
> A few cases in Asia every year and we’re done

We also need to get rid of a vaccine-derived polio in Africa (and some places in Asia).

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by femto on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:37PM (#24277518)
Details here for the curious:

https://www.who.int/westernpacific/news/q-a-detail/what-is-v...

Summary: Whilst initial immunity is developing after vaccination, attenuated polio viruses can be excreted and cause a rare circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV) outbreak. 21 outbreaks have occurred in the last 20 years, with 760 cases, out of 3 billion vaccinated and 10 million polio cases averted. cVDPV is averted by getting as many people in the community vaccinated within a 12-month window as possible. It naturally stops being a risk as the vaccinated population approaches 100%.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by smabie on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @10:23PM (#24278434)
In my experience from living in Tanzania, malaria is way down in Africa. Almost everyone said that true malaria isn't very common. I started a school there and none of the 200 kids there got malaria over the 4 year span of the school's existence.

I think the statistics about it might be overestimating since people constantly say they have malaria, but rarely if ever have it. It means just sick colloquially in Swahili.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by credit_guy on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @07:31PM (#24277489)
In 2019, WHO started administering a malaria vaccine in 3 countries, Ghana, Malawi and Kenya. The vaccine has already passed Phase 3 trials, and 360k children will be immunized annually between now and 2023 [1].

[1] https://www.who.int/malaria/media/malaria-vaccine-implementa...

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by grandinj on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @04:13AM (#24280283)
What happened to that laser system to shoot mosquitoes? I soooo want one of those :-)
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mikorym on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @04:54PM (#24275991)
I grew up in an area that forms part of the general malaria area of South Africa, but I have never had malaria. I know many people who have had malaria and the general observations that I have is:

1. Using malaria medication is advisable if you don't have access to good doctors and good hospitals. If you permanently live in a malaria area, it's not practical.

2. If you have quick access to a good doctors and good hospitals, it's often better to treat yourself once you are sick. ---> NO this is not travel advice <---. The malaria medications have a lot of side effects to use permanently; the expensive ones have less side effects and I believe pilots generally use such ones since risking getting sick has the potential side effect of a plane crashing.

3. The key is detection and treatment. You can easily die in an top EU or US or Singapore hospital if the doctor doesn't ever see malaria and you happen to have it. You have to test until you get a positive---even if it is a false positive, and then you test again. I personally know people who's parent died of malaria in a good hospital in South Africa, but in an area that is far from the malaria areas, and hence has doctors who don't test for it. I am not a doctor so I am not sure how one is treated once tested positive, but I do know many people who recovered very quickly due to the doctors being acutely aware of how to treat malaria.

4. Taking into account said things above, malaria is not a major threat. If you read stories about game rangers in the KNP of South Africa, many of them died from malaria in their later life because they were somewhere deep in the bush/lowveld and far from hospitals and couldn't be bothered with having malaria, yet again, and stopping their fun bush activities to go to the hospital 200km away.

5. My grandmother had malaria 6 or 7 times and died rather healthy in her mid 90s. My family actually actively avoided the malaria areas in the summer back in the late 1800s and early to mid 1900s by living on the higher escarpment. You could also read about Dr. Annecke and the efforts back then to combat malaria.

6. The countries to the north of South Africa don't have the facilities to treat malaria, generally, and with proper treatment and selective DTT application, you should be able to limit the ranges of the parasite. Yes, DTT is a bad chemical.

7. On that topic, malaria is caused by a parasite, so in terms of vaccines it's not clear what the mechanism behind it should be.

8. If you think about the Panama worm exclusion line that featured a while ago on HN, something like that would have made sense if Africa were a more developed continent. But in any case, the point is that the poor state of many things in Africa is part of the malaria problem.

9. Many other things about Africa is way cooler than the other continents. We still have lion and rhino, for one. There were many large predators on the other continents. So, "development" is something of a complicated word.

10. South Africa generally manages malaria well, so it is possible to contain it through holistic management. And no, holism is a word that belongs to Jan Smuts and you cannot steal it for your magic peanut oil business.

11. Yes, a silver bullet would be nice.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by grandinj on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @04:17AM (#24280310)
Also south africa, grew up in malaria-hot area.

The rule with malaria medication is that either you take it consistently or you don't take it at all.

If you take it consistently, you don't get malaria.

If you don't take it, you get sick, you go to hospital, they put on a drop, you're largely fine.

If you take it inconsistently, you run the horrible risk of getting malaria, but not having proper symptoms, which means you don't go to hospital early enough, which means you end up with late-stage malaria, which is really bad.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by lymeeducator on Tuesday August 25, 2020 @10:30PM (#24278490)
I think there are plants like Cryptoleptis and Sida Acuta that can be used as tonics or to treat Malaria. They are effective against it's lesser known and less virulent cousin Babesia (common in the US via biting insects or blood donations). Test reliability could be improved significantly, including T-cell responses (sound familiar?;-). I think due to the unsustainable cost model of western patented pharmaceuticals and their lack of adaptability and/or side effects, many are also looking into herbal approaches and studies on efficacy & safety.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2956309/

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mikorym on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:20AM (#24280005)
Sorry, but I don't think this is good advice. Malaria medication does generally work well, I only pointed out that unlike something like Aids and antiretrovirals, it's just not something you can use safely and at scale, for the rest of your life.

If those plants are effective against malaria, it is inevitable that it should be applied in a practical way, which often turns out to be in the form of pills.

Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by ascorbic on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @02:42AM (#24279812)
I'm not sure how you can call something that kills 400k people per year "not a major threat"
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by mikorym on Wednesday August 26, 2020 @03:15AM (#24279983)
> You can easily die in an top EU or US or Singapore hospital [from malaria]
Re:Africa declared free of wild polio by ascorbic on Friday August 28, 2020 @12:20AM (#24301326)
Almost none of those 400k people are dying in Europe or the US though. They're dying in poor countries, mostly in Africa.