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Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by 2muchcoffeeman on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:29AM (#21015506)
5. Torrents are more convenient.

I was happy to and still do pay for Netflix. But occasionally something comes along and I’m sure as hell not subscribing to 5 extra streaming services. One or two? Maybe even three? But now you have Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, Apple TV along with the other regional streaming services if you want to get content legally. And there’s more services to come.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by cercatrova on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:54AM (#21016159)
Unfortunately, any aggregator service suffers the tragedy of the commons. At first it's nice because one place has all of the content. As time goes by, each provider of content sees that they could make more money by removing their content from the aggregator and launching their own service. This is true if it occurs in a vacuum, but it inevitably doesn't; each content provider thinks similarly and creates their own service. Now the consumer does not want to pay for each service and will resort to the most convenient option, piracy. If you follow gaming news, you see this happen with regards to Steam and the Epic Games Store. Piracy is a nearly unbeatable service because it acts as the ultimate aggregator with unremovable content. (Yes, there are private tracker sites with their own selection of content, but the vast majority of people use public trackers.)
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by AnthonyMouse on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:02AM (#21016834)
The thing they don't seem to understand is that you don't get long-term subscribers from the back catalog. It's the new content.

Which means what they should be doing is reserving the latest season to themselves but making it so that everything else is available everywhere (assuming reciprocity). Then when season one drops on Netflix and Netflix subscribers like it, well, season two is out but only on Disney for the next year. And the customer might actually be willing to drop Netflix for Disney this year if they both have the same back catalog, when it wouldn't be worth it if you have to subscribe to both at once for that.

The result would be that a customer could get all content by subscribing to only one service and no piracy, but only if they're willing to be a year out of date for most of it, which still allows them to get multiple subscriptions from the subset of people with more disposable income. And it's not as if they don't make any money from licensing the old seasons to the other providers -- or make any money when the other providers license their old seasons to them and allow them to get more subscribers.

Their problem is they're overvaluing exclusivity for old content.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by birdyrooster on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:32AM (#21017151)
I’m not sure you’ve seen Netflix’s dwindling catalog, but they are very aware of this phenomenon and have been pivoting away from deep catalog to originals since at least 2012. I remember once a VP said in all hands, “our plan is to become HBO before HBO becomes us”
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by AnthonyMouse on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:41AM (#21017237)
Their dwindling catalog is the result of the other services thinking that removing their old content from Netflix will help them. But nobody is going to subscribe to a different service just so they can do a one-time watch of a series that has been on Pirate Bay for five years, so all those companies are really doing is depriving themselves of the money Netflix would have paid them to license that series.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by CriticalCathed on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:15PM (#21021287)
What about the super-series content? netflix just purchased the rights to Seinfeld for example -- probably for an insane amount of money. Or The Office which is leaving netflix in a few years.

Those probably drive new users and retain current ones.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by pbhjpbhj on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:55AM (#21017404)
That quote is interesting. I'm not surprised to be a minority but I've paid for Netflix for several years and at no point would I have subscribed to HBO instead (though I did look at doing it, but only for GoT).

It would be nice if media companies could stop trying to own the World and instead be content offering a good service for good compensation. When they get to that point they seem to go "well if we can force people to consume something else that they don't like as much then we can get even more customers". Bleurgh.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by Rebelgecko on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:31PM (#21019098)
OTOH they were willing to pay almost $100 million a year just for rights to The Office.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by birdyrooster on Thursday September 19, 2019 @05:54PM (#21021109)
I wonder if that included the rights to produce new content.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by gamblor956 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:55PM (#21021566)
It did not.

NBC already owns the production rights to the Office. Under agreements with the various Hollywood talent guilds, they are required to pay market value for distribution rights such as exclusive online streaming, because that money gets paid to profit participants like producers, actors, writers, etc.

However, NBC is considering rebooting or spinning off the Office with some of the original cast.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by ACow_Adonis on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:00PM (#21021150)
Personal anecdote, but the reason i dropped the households Netflix subscription is because they had nothing on their back catalogue i wanted to watch.

I couldn't give two hoots about most of their original stuff which has been laughably mediocre and designed by committee at best, and I have no problem watching it in 5 years time off it's any good.

I just want a media delivery service where I look for something and then it plays, and so far that doesn't exist...

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by fendy3002 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:08PM (#21022383)
If so then government can take part. Government "technically" buys content of 5+ years old (at fixed price or whatever-measurement they have) to provider, then streaming sites pays a set of price to government to access those content.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by pbhjpbhj on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:59AM (#21017454)
This could be fixed legislatively IMO, and should.

If you offer a show for X per view then you have to offer it to all aggregators for that cost.

Tell me the massive holes in that?

As I see it that satisfies the copyright deal, rewards creators and makes works available. Add a 20 year copyright term and I might even be happy!

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by criddell on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:53PM (#21018057)
I'm not sure about other companies, but Netflix doesn't pay per stream. If you license your movie to them you never find out how many people watched it.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by wongarsu on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:02AM (#21016828)
In the gaming space we also have Steam and Gog which coexist happily because neither demands exclusivity, each catering to different consumer preferences.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by scrumbledober on Thursday September 19, 2019 @05:25PM (#21020907)
Except you also have Origin and the Epic store which do demand exclusivity and we are rapidly approaching the same situation with video games that we are in with television streaming services. I have most of my games on Steam, but have had to download both the Epic and Origin launchers for one game each. Luckily I don't have to pay a subscription service for each launcher. Yet...
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by wongarsu on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:11PM (#21021245)
Epic has to pay publishers for exclusivity and most of the time still only gets one year of exclusivity. Steams strength was always the long tail, and personally I'm not that worried about getting games a year later.

EA (Origin) and Activision/Blizzard (Battle.net) have their own launchers and don't publish on Steam. But while those are some of the biggest brands it's a tiny portion of the overall industry: maybe 4-10 dozen exclusive games in Origin + Battle.net + Uplay + Epic Store, but a few thousand on gog and a few tens of thousand on Steam

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by friendlybus on Thursday September 19, 2019 @07:09PM (#21021648)
Steam has just nipped Epic in the bud by saying you can't sell on Steam whilst you have an exclusivity contract with Epic.

Discord is/was a games launcher too and they just shuttered their subscription service as nearly no-one was playing the games that came with it.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by anoncake on Friday September 20, 2019 @05:37AM (#21024835)
> Steam has just nipped Epic in the bud by saying you can't sell on Steam whilst you have an exclusivity contract with Epic.

Huh? I thought saying you can't sell on Steam is kind of what an exclusivity contract with Epic does.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by tdy_err on Friday September 20, 2019 @07:14AM (#21025316)
> As most PC gamers know by now, the Epic Games Store has been signing exclusives to its digital distribution platform. Unfortunately, some of these games already had Steam Store pages, creating the expectation for some that it would be launching on that service in the near future. Now, some reportedly recent Steam TOS changes may very well halt this practice entirely.

- If you put up a Steam Store page, you can’t release the game earlier on another platform. - Any patches/updates must be released for Steam at the same time as they are on other platforms. - Games can be released on other platforms, but you can’t put up a Steam store page until 30 days before the Steam release or the game’s original release, depending on which of the two is earlier.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by wongarsu on Friday September 20, 2019 @05:44AM (#21024864)
He probably meant to refer to Steam no longer allowing store pages on Steam for games that are Epic exclusives.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by gnopgnip on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:16AM (#21016980)
Internet radio has figured this out, mechanical licensing. What is stopping netflix from lobbying and campaigning for something similar?
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by criddell on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:54PM (#21018067)
Netflix doesn't want mechanical licensing because they would have to reveal viewership numbers and for some reason they treat that like a big secret.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by Cogito on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:51AM (#21023637)
Apart from giving a better negotiation position, viewership numbers tell you what people want to watch.

If you (think you) know what people want to watch it becomes easy to cheaply produce new content guaranteed to sell.

This is almost certainly the nexus for much of the original content coming out of Netflix.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by prepend on Thursday September 19, 2019 @01:20PM (#21018378)
Because it is a huge secret. It lets them negotiate for content with a much more accurate price than even the producers.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by arcticbull on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:10PM (#21021235)
Which they wouldn't have to do with mechanical licensing right?
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by dredmorbius on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:23PM (#21022110)
How exactly is this a Tragedy of the Commons effect?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by Cogito on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:45AM (#21023608)
from wikipedia you linked

> tragedy of the commons is a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users, acting independently according to their own self-interest, behave contrary to the common good of all users, by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action

The shared resource is the amount of money spent by consumers to watch content.

The individual users are content producers and aggregators.

It is in their self interest to own the last mile of content distribution, as they get more money this way than by licensing to others.

This action, collectively, spoils the shared resource by reducing the amount of money that consumers are willing to spend on watching content. They don't want to maintain multiple subscriptions to watch just one or two shows, or different series of the same show, and so maintain less subscriptions than if there was just one or two services with all the content.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by dredmorbius on Friday September 20, 2019 @04:39AM (#21024463)
The tragedy of the commons is not just any nonrational behaviour. It's a specific case where there is some property or resource held in common, and actors or agents can act to privatise gains whilst collectivising costs.

The classic case illustrated in Garret Hardin's 1968 essay is a common field, with a fixed carrying capacity, at that carrying capacity, in which one herdsman chooses to run yet more cattle. The total yield goes down, but the defector's yield increases. Since the gain is private and the loss is shared, the net incentive is to overgraze.

Calling the subscription spending market a commons seems a stretch. That's never a shared resource, it's always one which accrues to specific provider(s). Though the tendency is for it to accrue to a winner-takes-all provider.

And more crucially, there's no socialised loss here that I can see. There is a race-to-the-bottom dynamic possible with excessive competition, so long as offerings of one providers catalogue cannot be shared with others.

The problem instead seems to be simply one of falling marginal costs, such that the largest provider has the greatest efficiencies, and that with a sufficiently subdivided market (multiple subscription services), no one provider has a sufficient catalogue to sufficiently interest any one viewer, but the monetary and other costs (choice, selection, management) of multiple services is too high for any one subscriber to choose more than a small subset of services.

That's not a tragedy of the commons, it's a natural (network effects) monopoly situation.

(I'm aware you're not the original poster. I'd hoped they might respond.)

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by apocolyps6 on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:04PM (#21028906)
The common here is the set of customers willing to sign up for a subscription nobody owns these people. Staring another service (adding another cow) is a gain for the service owner, but the set of people willing to pay for subscriptions goes down.

If your favorite show goes from service A to service B, you might switch, you might maintain both subscriptions, or you might decide neither is individually worth it, and either stop watching or start pirating.

Even if service A does not lose shows, its no longer getting shows at the same rate, so the quality of that service goes down, with nothing of similar quality to replace it. So again some customers will stop paying and the commons shrinks.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by dredmorbius on Friday September 20, 2019 @06:05PM (#21031794)
So, I'm considering this, but I really don't see it.

Yes, there's a shared, limited, resource pool. But that's true of any constrained economic resource.

The element of privatised gain / socialised loss is what's missing. Any given entrant has an all-or-nothing proposition. But gains precisely match others losses, assuming a fixed pie.

The marginal/average cost dynamic is a red herring here, so far as ToTC goes.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by Cogito on Sunday September 22, 2019 @05:25AM (#21040433)
The privatised gain is that a content producer who was previously licensing their content to a streaming service, and starts their own streaming service, makes more money streaming than by licensing.

The socialised loss is that fragmentation of distribution makes people less likely to pay for any service. By trying to take a bigger slice of the pie, they make the pie smaller.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by phito on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:27AM (#21016482)
I don't see this problem with music streaming (although they have tried)
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by raxxorrax on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:43AM (#21016643)
Do they finally offer mainly DRM-free music? I think I saw at least some mp3 offers from Amazon, but haven't looked closer at music streaming for a long time, since other sources are numerous.

For music it is one of my expectations. I have strange and sometimes old devices for playback. Not really interested in locked down content here.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by gdfasfklshg4 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:50AM (#21016697)
Itunes for example is DRM free.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by raxxorrax on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:58AM (#21016794)
That is actually quite nice. Apple does good things from time to time, I just don't like their devices. But I think there are ways to access iTunes without an Apple device.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by ihuman on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:33AM (#21017158)
You can use iTunes purchase from the iTunes store on Windows.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by derefr on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:40AM (#21017231)
And, as of very recently, there is an Apple Music web-app (https://beta.music.apple.com).
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by ihuman on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:42AM (#21017262)
But Apple Music is streaming-only with DRM, not DRM-free downloads.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by 333c on Saturday September 21, 2019 @11:19AM (#21035866)
When you purchase a song from iTunes, it is DRM-free. When you download it through Apple Music, it is not.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by giancarlostoro on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:13AM (#21016335)
> 5. Torrents are more convenient.

Don't forget Usenet automation like CouchPotato, now that is convenient ...or so I've heard. You can set it all up to automatically fetch files, and organize them in such a way for Kodi to consume them, and then Kodi gets art for all your shows and movies. There's articles online about it. Downside is Usenet costs a certain amount, course when you start piling on $14.99 for 4k from half a dozen online streaming services, $14.99 once and for all doesn't sound so bad. I don't condone piracy, but I may or may not have done that in my younger years. It was glorious.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by parliament32 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:36PM (#21017880)
Don't know about Usenet but Flexget[1] is amazing for private torrent trackers. Effectively you first subscribe it to your tracker(s) RSS feeds or IRC announce channels. It'll watch and filter and sort new torrents, doing things like "download any new episode of X show in 720p" or "download any new movie that's a Thriller or Horror and is above 7.0 on IMDB". When it hits a match, it'll grab the .torrent and feed it to whatever your torrent client is (via RPC or watch folder or whatever). Then it can shoot you an email/notification that it has something new for you.

It'll also do cool stuff like keep track of which episodes it has seen (so it won't re-downloaded old eps) and watch for propers. From there (in your torrent client) you can post-download hook to auto-extract your new show and put it in the right folder so Kodi can see it. Kodi does all the Kodi things like keep track of watched episodes, get your artwork/subs/ratings/whatever, keep your library sorted.

It's a bit of a Rube Goldberg machine but: End result is I get home and the GoT episode that dropped an hour ago is sitting there on Kodi, ready to be played. It's so convenient it's ridiculous.

[1]https://github.com/Flexget/Flexget

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by londons_explore on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:16AM (#21027614)
Sounds like it has the reliability of a Rube Goldberg machine too...
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by forgottenpass on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:20AM (#21016410)
I've heard that discoverability on usenet is a problem. Is it similar to private trackers and just harder to find an easy "in", or do people actually pay for access to those index sites?
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by enobrev on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:44AM (#21016650)
Having a couple free indexers and a decent paid one (or two) along with a couple good Usenet services tends to cover most needs. With a good downloader app, it's simply a matter of plugging in a couple API keys once and basically forgetting about them while letting your system do the searching and scouring for you.

Or, so I've heard.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by smnrchrds on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:49AM (#21016693)
Ca you give us some more specific details about what you have heard, like the name of these services? Why are they better than torrent?
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by giancarlostoro on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:41AM (#21017245)
With Usenet you get a direct line to the files, there's no seeding, and it's over SSL (you might have to specify a SSL server from your provider). The scripts to download take the binaries and take each part downloaded and put them together and extract all the files for you. I don't even think you need a VPN, but one does not hurt. Also like I said, you can automate the process with projects like SickBeard and CouchPotato. Specifically with SickBeard you can subscribe to shows, and it knows when new episodes come out, and it starts searching repeatedly.

The other thing is you can define the quality you want to download, it will find the best thing closest to that quality and download it, say it's 480p but you want 1080p, but only 480 is available at the time. An hour later 1080p is published, but you already have 480 and maybe you're watching it, no way for it to know, so what the software does is, download the 1080p version, and don't delete it till it's done downloading. You'll know it's downloading cause you can setup all sorts of alerts and notifications. Then you have Kodi setup to auto parse those directories and fetch previews and descriptions.

At one point I had a plugin for Kodi that takes all the content you have and makes "Channels" from the content, so you can feel like you're watching regular TV and browsing through channels.

People love Kodi for the streaming plugins, but Kodi + Usenet was amazing. Nowadays I just pay for Netflix and Hulu, but like I said, at this rate it's tempting to think about Usenet again.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by enobrev on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:27PM (#21017784)
@giancarlostoro and @turc1656 covered this a great deal better than I could. I just want to add that using a combination of NZBGet, Sonarr (TV Series), and Radarr (Movies), makes the task of downloading and managing media incredibly simple on a day-to-day basis. There's a bit of a learning curve to get them all set up and working, but not much more than a single dedicated evening.

I can't say I know a ton about the subject, as it's very intentionally not a hobby for me. One might find it important to simply get everything set up and then go on with their lives. About an hour or so googling around and checking the usenet subreddit(s) and the favorite tools and services tend to bubble to the top. Then it's a matter of signing up for a couple indexers and usenet services and blocks, installing the tools, and let it run. The ones I mentioned above are quite stable and self-updating.

Torrents seem to be easier to get started and along with a VPN are probably the way to go if you download something once a month, but annoying in the long term. On the other hand, usenet can be annoying to learn about and get set up at first and then simply stable and easy otherwise.

One could easily get used to the client interfaces and Plex (or Kodi if preferred) and simply forget that they have a system in place to automatically download these series and movies as they're released and as better quality versions are made available.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by giancarlostoro on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:31PM (#21017827)
Totally agree with you, I am not sure but Sonarr and Radarr look enough like SickBeard / CouchPotato either they're inspired by them or modern forks. Wouldn't surprise me, looking to the SickBeard / CouchPotato sites makes it look like neither get updated often recently.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by turc1656 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:27PM (#21017776)
I've heard NZBGeek.info is pretty good and worth the lifetime fee (currently $30) as far as indexers go. I've also heard that free software like NZBGet which takes in the NZB's and downloads everything for you, verifies the download, and does the unpacking automatically, is great and has its own browser interface. I've also heard services like newshosting.com are worth the $15 unlimited bandwidth access given their speed and retention.

I'm told these are better than torrent primarily for speed and accessibility. Accessibility is key for older content as these massive data centers that belong to the usenet provider will typically hold all data for at least 7-8 years. So if you are within the 7-8 window you won't have any speed or "seed" issues. The issue now for Usenet seems to be DMCA takedowns which applies to new, popular content. Although, if one were to use software like SickBeard or SABnzbd, I've heard they automate the locating and downloading of recurring/episodic television and would replace NZBGet. You set your preferences for a show (quality, language, etc.) and it does the rest because it knows when the show airs so you literally just find new commercial and add free TV downloaded and ready to go.

Combine this with Plex and you're golden. And that's a $30 one time fee and $15 monthly recurring in total, as the rest is all free software. Unless you want the premium Plex which you would only need if you want to stream from your home to your mobile device or something else while in transit. But if you just want to use this to watch at home, then Plex is also free, fantastic software...or so I've been told.

EDIT:

One additional note on legal protection - using Usenet is preferred as you are communicating directly with your service provider (i.e. newshosting.com) for them serving you files. This means there's no one monitoring the swarm and trying to see if you are seeding or serving/distributing the data. So there isn't going to be anyone serving you violation notices or suing you for illegal distribution. Another benefit is those Usenet providers are typically on major internet backbones and typically max your line speed even for extended usage. You can easily pull down several hundred mbps constant for most Usenet providers.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by giancarlostoro on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:38PM (#21017897)
Nzbgeek I believe is for manual searching, but some of those automated services (SickBeard, Radarr, etc) allow you to manually add something in the mix, they are after all downloaders at the end of it all. That or I forgot how to add their indexer to SickBeard. It's been a while, and after not having done it in so long I tried to go back and forgot how I did it so I had some manually setup.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by turc1656 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:42PM (#21017940)
Yes, NZBgeek is like searching a torrent site. I believe you can add any NZB's to whichever downloader you have (nzbget, sickbeard, etc.) If not, one could always have two downloaders installed, one associated with NZBs for the automatic downloading and one which is not and just done manually.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by giancarlostoro on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:30PM (#21019762)
There was one that was used for automation but I forgot the domain, and I feel like it was $15 a year for access and was the main indexer I used. Thanks for confirmation, I wasn't sure but NZBGeeks awesome nonetheless.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by giancarlostoro on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:33AM (#21017166)
Yeah paid ones are definitely worth it, there was one that was like $15 for lifetime access. If you want to download manually there's some forums with yearly subscriptions that aren't too bad too. I don't remember any names off the top of my head, it's been a few years (wow 10...) since I last used any of those. The best I can say is a lot of the sites have the word "NZB" attached to them since that's the Usenet rendition of a ".torrent" file sorta.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by oefrha on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:48AM (#21016682)
In fact, I’ve “pirated” shows I already paid for because the owner doesn’t offer an offline option, or I don’t want to use the crappy players forced upon me. (HBO is a notable example.)
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by nurb on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:55AM (#21017402)
6. You choose torrent for ethical reasons.

To provide a culture access to everyone and not only those with enough money, to bypass censorship and virtual frontiers.

But also to avoid financing distribution companies, that P2P made obsolete. Companies that finance themselves before the tiny subset of compliant artists working for them. The very same companies that make you thing that "sharing is wrong"... Seriously, put this out of context and feel the absurdity of it.

Still though, financing culture still an open problem. For now the only ethical way seems to be the donate buttons and bitcoins.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by lucb1e on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:41AM (#21015593)
> 5. Torrents are more convenient.

Right but then you don't fall within the 90% that OP estimates would have bought the product. In OP's points, you either would buy it if you could (1, 2), or are planning to buy after limited evaluation (3). Item 4 is a bit of an odd one (though it applies to me: I only pay for Audible $10/month because you can still do .aa exports and turn them into mp3s and play anywhere, any time; otherwise I'd pirate the books or find a competitor), but your 5th is squarely a lost sale.

The text below your point doesn't really match your point, that sounds more like can't afford or just doesn't want to pay. Leaving in the middle whether it's reasonable to have to go to five "stores" to get everything you want, you either can afford it and are the (proposed) 10% or it falls under item 2.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by the_af on Thursday September 19, 2019 @08:56AM (#21015687)
I think "torrents are more convenient" is also about people who would have bought the product.

Example: lots of people I know torrented Game of Thrones because paid services were actually worse. Things like HBO Go stuttered depending on internet connection -- and in one of the season premieres, the service was unavailable -- while torrents offered Full HD quality with no surprises.

Another consideration is when you're paying for Netflix but it doesn't have all the seasons of a series yet. So people torrent the episodes even when they are already paying for a streaming service: torrents are more convenient. They get all the content when they want it, and with high quality too.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by prepend on Thursday September 19, 2019 @01:29PM (#21018477)
I torrented every season except the last when I used HBONow. The torrent experience was much better. Their app is bloated, shows ads, and is tough to navigate.

Their app is worse than a folder where files show up and disappear when watched. That’s their competition and they failed.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by freeflight on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:20AM (#21016406)
Among other services, I'm subscribed to Prime, and really enjoy some shows on there like The Terror.

But for whatever reason, the release schedule for new episodes on season 2 is all messed up in my Amazon region. Sometimes there will be 6 days between them, then 9 days, right now the last episode it offers is the fifth one, released there on September the 9th, that was 10 days ago.

It ended with a massive cliffhanger, and I'm sitting over here looking for something to watch, but Amazon Germany simply doesn't want to deliver. So earlier I looked up the scene release, which was back on the 15th, and pirated that episode.

The pirated version also has the added benefit of not throwing double the amount of subtitles (German and English) at me for any foreign language scene. One would think such localization subtitles should be easily disabled, yet Amazon Germany doesn't offer an option for it and still displays them even when English dub and subs are selected.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by arkh on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:58AM (#21017437)
> 5. Torrents are more convenient.

Some people enjoy "crazy good" less than 1Mb/s internet conexion: no way you're streaming anything. So yeah, torrent it is.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by mikepurvis on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:16AM (#21016988)
This one hit home for me recently as my partner and I were streaming Good Omens off of Prime. It was a laptop on wifi (10mbps connection), hooked up by HDMI to the TV, and the quality kept dropping down to 480p or worse.

Every time it did it, I was like, man I should have just pre-downloaded this, and then it would be issue-free.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by NullPrefix on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:57AM (#21016190)
>Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, Apple TV

I think only YouTube works properly on Linux without the DRM EME botnet plugins.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by cabalamat on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:52AM (#21017359)
A lot of these (all of them??) are streaming services, which suffer when you have a slow internet connection.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by fernandotakai on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:05AM (#21016261)
i already pay for amazon, youtube, netflix and hulu. if some content i want to watch is not on any of those services, i will gladly download it -- not because i don't wanna pay for it, but because i'm already paying the studios (through these 4 services) more than enough.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by amelius on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:39AM (#21016022)
Exactly.

There's a problem here, though. If there was only a single distribution channel, that would be a monopoly with corresponding prices.

So this means that there will never be a distribution channel which is satisfactory. Unless perhaps a non-profit organization runs it.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by laumars on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:56AM (#21016180)
The problem isn't so much having too many distribution services but rather that each service has a monopoly on specific content.

If each service had access to the same content as every other service then market forces would not only satisfy the price argument but also the quality of the services itself (lets be honest, some of the pirating services run circles around the legitimate ones).

Unfortunately though, the movie, TV and music industry have been allowed to operate monopolies - even push for extensions to copyright law and against reforms - for so long that I can't see it ever changing.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by BlackFly on Thursday September 19, 2019 @09:57AM (#21016195)
My proposed solution to this: require frand licenses from copyright holders before they are allowed to bring copyright claims to court.

Whatever license they want to give, they should be required to offer the same terms to whoever comes along, if they want public assistance in protecting their work. If they think they can keep it locked down on their own then they are free to offer discriminatory license arrangements. If they want help from society protecting their works, whatever is offered to Amazon ought to be available to Netflix, or anybody else, including you and me when we start our own alternative.

Edit: to deal with rights holders that don't want anyone else to offer their content, they are free to make non-discriminatory royalty arrangements with extremely high royalties. However, they must pay those royalties to the government as a tax (again for access to the courts).

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by TylerE on Thursday September 19, 2019 @02:04PM (#21018821)
I don't agree with this at all.

Part of copyright is maintaining a degree of artistic control - for instance a band not allowing a certain political party to use their song at rallies.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by BlackFly on Wednesday October 02, 2019 @05:45AM (#21134742)
Yes, but why should society help you with that goal? In order to get something from society, there should be some sort of equivalent exchange. You are asking for a form of violence enforced by society (policing to enforce that the particular political party doesn't play your song). What exactly is society getting from you but a limited opportunity to enjoy the music you created?

This is a bad deal for society. Renegotiating it won't stop artists from producing art. If you don't want that political party playing your song, make sure they never hear it: play it only for people you trust.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by parliament32 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:26PM (#21017772)
Not to mention the lack of a unified UI. I don't want to fire up 3-5 different apps, have to figure out which show is on which, manage 3-5 different watchlists, etc. It's all about convenience.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by megous on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:03PM (#21019462)
Thankfully one can just:

    mpv 'anyoldurl'
and you have a unified UI for very many services:

http://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/supportedsites.html

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by forgottenpass on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:41AM (#21016613)
>5. Torrents are more convenient.

I miss watching videos outside the service-branded players. I get that the floor is lower, but the ceiling is at the floor. None of them are special beyond making the DRM work, their UIs are at best rebranding of the good ideas they steal from the youtube player.

Sometimes I just want the flexibility to watch their video with a feature I know a different player has. Or without uninterrupted access to high-throughput internet connectivity. Like, in the car, the wilderness, or anywhere that the home network is administrated by a normie.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by pteraspidomorph on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:55AM (#21016758)
Torrents aren't that convenient anymore. The vast majority of available data is on private trackers, and the procedures for joining said trackers are extremely byzantine, sometimes outright demeaning, and require vast quantities of time and effort. I'd argue that it's much more convenient to just pay Bezos, unless - as suggested - you're a teenager and don't have any money, or the rightsholders made it impossible for you to make the purchase (this has happened to me when trying to purchase music, of all things).
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by benhurmarcel on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:42AM (#21017257)
For really popular stuff torrents are really fast and convenient. I wanted to watch the last GoT season and had access to HBO Online (a family member pays for it). Torrenting it just took a few minutes, after unsuccessfully trying to make HBO work on my Linux desktop.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by yummypaint on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:08AM (#21016894)
The state of private trackers tells us about the amount of effort put into enforcement. Accessible trackers dont last long, so there is necessarily some hoop jumping to make it more profitable to go elsewhere and attack softer targets.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by cabalamat on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:50AM (#21017333)
> Accessible trackers don't last long

The Pirate Bay is still up, even if they do have to keep changing URLs; one can Google on "pirate bay proxy" to get a list of whatever the latest hostnames are, then go to those sites.

This is a slight hassle, and the time it takes is not really significant compared to watching a 2-hour movie. I suspect it is less hassle than trying to buy a DRM-crippled movie and playing it on my Linux box.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by pteraspidomorph on Thursday September 19, 2019 @06:57PM (#21021578)
Even before the pirate bay became a vague concept often repurposed by people trying to sell dubious VPN services or mining cryptocoins with your browser they had already ceased to be a tracker. Those are just indices! They'll suggest some actual trackers on the magnet URLs in their listings but you can get comparable results using a DHT search engine.

You can intersect here "trackers" that are "public":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_BitTorrent_sites

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by Supermancho on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:10PM (#21017600)
Kickass Torrents has had to move around over the years to new domains, but they have been a reliable way to find torrents with new media (and software) for years. I wouldn't use TPB unless I was really desperate.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by elliekelly on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:24AM (#21016451)
Not to give Amazon any ideas but I would actually love a service like Audible for seasons of TV series: pay a monthly fee and get X “credits” that you can use to access a season of a show.
Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by duxup on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:30AM (#21026444)
I don't even bother to torrent anymore .... I just don't view it.

I love Star Trek, haven't seen any of the new series. I'm not singing up for a new streaming service for one thing, and there's so much media available I can always find something else... so I just don't watch.

Re:Swiss Copyright Law: Downloading Stays Legal, No Site Blo... by fnord77 on Thursday September 19, 2019 @10:51AM (#21016716)
and DL'ing is only going to get more pervasive as the fragmentation of "exclusive" content gets worse with the explosion of services