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Re:Facebook Dating by estsauver on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:44AM (#20887173)
I think this might be a (relatively) rare strategy error for Facebook. If the success of Snapchat, LinkedIn, and also the separate WhatsApp/Instagram properties proves anything, it's that there are very different faces of ourselves that we show to the professional world, to our friends, to partners, and to the world at large.

If I was facebook, I would very explicitly announce this as a spin out project, under a different name and brand. While HN has a good knowledge of the ultimate parent owners of apps, I meet a lot of people who protest facebook by moving to Instagram/WhatsApp. Even announcing this through the instagram brand would have made more sense to me.

Re:Facebook Dating by asdfman123 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:28PM (#20888284)
> it's that there are very different faces of ourselves that we show to the professional world, to our friends, to partners, and to the world at large

I think Facebook's goal is to make it so that you have one persona you show to everyone. To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley that the rest of the world does not necessarily want.

It seems like a mistake. If you have one persona, that means that you need to optimize that persona for your career and ironically it feels more stiflingly conformist. Just my personal feelings on the matter, though. I'm not trying to call out anyone who likes that way of life (and perhaps has a personality that's well suited for it), just that it should not be imposed on everyone.

I kind of like the old model where you pretend to be conservative at work, and are free to be as weird as you want to in your own time.

Re:Facebook Dating by jlg23 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @03:31PM (#20889984)
> I think Facebook's goal is to make it so that you have one persona you show to everyone. To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley that the rest of the world does not necessarily want.

Indeed. I live in a muslim country and here everyone uses dual-sim phones with 2 sims for the sole purpose of having 2 accounts at everything: one for the conservative part of the family, another for the modern.

Re:Facebook Dating by asdfman123 on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:35AM (#20895467)
I used to have a Facebook list specifically for the conservative part of my family so I could block the more "out there" stuff I wrote on the platform.

However now I just let it rip. I'm not trying to be weird like I was in my 20s, and I also realize I don't need to self-censor as much as I thought I needed to.

Re:Facebook Dating by vdfs on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:38PM (#20890444)
This is true for security reasons too, i don't want to give my 2FA number to anyone or any website that i will use only once in a while
Re:Facebook Dating by dheera on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:55PM (#20890994)
2FA by phone should be dead. SMS is insecure and I've deprecated it for all forms of communication with me. I use virtual numbers for all websites and banks that have stupid forced phone 2FA, including Facebook.
Re:Facebook Dating by twothamendment on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:23AM (#20893302)
Sounds like a good idea. Virtual numbers from where?
Re:Facebook Dating by dheera on Friday September 06, 2019 @02:29PM (#20898358)
Twilio is a good place to start and has a pretty feature-complete API. There are other alternatives as well.

Do note that some services aren't able to send SMS to virtual numbers in the US, for some reason. If that happens, try again with a virtual number in the UK or somewhere else, or if there is a voice call confirmation option that may also work for you as you can redirect the call programatically. Considering the phone numbers typically cost only $1/month each you can keep a few around to deal with this situation.

Re:Facebook Dating by omarchowdhury on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:38PM (#20891289)
There's token based 2FA as well.
Re:Facebook Dating by mfcl on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:03PM (#20892665)
Yes, we know that. They were talking about 2FA over SMS.
Re:Facebook Dating by doubleunplussed on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:16PM (#20890287)
How does having two sims help with that? I switch out my SIM when I travel internationally, but I am still logged into all my accounts.
Re:Facebook Dating by coryrc on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:17PM (#20890302)
Many accounts are tied to a phone number.
Re:Facebook Dating by dahfizz on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:36PM (#20891277)
I still don't understand. Occasionally you need a phone number to sign up, but I've never needed a phone number to log in to something unless 2FA get triggered. But in any case, nobody else knows what phone number I used to create an account.
Re:Facebook Dating by aianus on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:31PM (#20892789)
You often need two different phone numbers to create two different accounts on the same service. Otherwise you will get errors like "phone number already used, did you forget your password?".
Re:Facebook Dating by Myrmornis on Thursday September 05, 2019 @07:53PM (#20891698)
WhatsApp
Re:Facebook Dating by doubleunplussed on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:14PM (#20891827)
Switching sims doesnt log me out of whatsapp either - as far as i can tell its totally optional whether i want to update my whatsapp number to my phone number or not.
Re:Facebook Dating by mastazi on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:51AM (#20893391)
Yes it’s true that switching sims doesn’t log you out, but if you decided to intentionally log out from account A and create a new account B, you would need a second SIM card, that’s what the parent comment was trying to explain.
Re:Facebook Dating by doubleunplussed on Friday September 06, 2019 @10:28AM (#20895918)
Makes sense.
Re:Facebook Dating by mgbmtl on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:23PM (#20891182)
I use VoIP numbers for that, although I understand it's not an option for all countries.
Re:Facebook Dating by mastazi on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:54AM (#20893397)
Yes, but you can explicitly log out from your main account and then log into an alt account - as long as you’re not using the sim associated to your main account
Re:Facebook Dating by mc32 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:16PM (#20888801)
Not only that but if things don’t work out (most people will have to meet multiple people before finding someone to go steady with), it can get awkward.

I think this thing has to have some ephemeral nature to it (delete account, create new one if need be later) to avoid harassers and or those who get infatuated or attached; people who just fell out in a bad way, etc.

I mean, you definitely don’t want to expose your friends and your work to new and to you unknown people. They may use your FB friends network and work and whatever other info to harass and follow, etc. also your ex-es can see activity, etc. I don’t see much good in this product.

Re:Facebook Dating by beowulfey on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:37PM (#20888371)
>To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley that the rest of the world does not necessarily want.

It makes a ton of sense from their business perspective, which is to sell highly personalized ads. If you have one single internet persona, it is far easier to tailor ads to you.

Re:Facebook Dating by roblabla on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:40PM (#20888410)
Not really no. If you have only one online persona, then you'll only show one angle of your life, and the rest will simply become invisible to facebook. People are unlikely to change how they are, they'll just change how they use the tool.

Letting people show different angles of themselves through differently branded websites makes it much easier for facebook to build complete, thorough profiles of people.

Re:Facebook Dating by penagwin on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:31PM (#20890813)
> then you'll only show one angle of your life, and the rest will simply become invisible to facebook.

I feel like the opposite may happen? I.e. instead of only showing one angle of their life, the idea is that people share _all_ angles of their lives. Either way you end up with the same result "one persona".

The only people who care this deeply I think are the same ones who block ads or don't use facebook anyway.

Re:Facebook Dating by RobertDeNiro on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:49PM (#20888507)
Seems like a much smarter approach would be to make it seems like you have different personas, but behind the scenes you can tie them together.
Re:Facebook Dating by adamc on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:39PM (#20888396)
If the service is unappealing, I will not use it, or use it less. So, there are trade-offs.
Re:Facebook Dating by kelnos on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:54PM (#20890544)
> I think Facebook's goal is to make it so that you have one persona you show to everyone. To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley that the rest of the world does not necessarily want.

I disagree with this characterization. I live in SV and literally everyone I've talked to about privacy/anonymity on the internet sees the value in being able to partition one's life into different buckets for different audiences, and many of them actively maintain such partitions.

This has nothing to do with culture; this is about technology limitations and laziness. Companies like FB want to make it easier to track people online and tie everything you do to a single identity. They can certainly do a lot to link supposedly-unrelated personas through various forms of fingerprinting, but it's never perfect, and they'd love for things to be simpler.

There's also the issue of anon/pseudonymity: companies like FB don't like that because they want an indentifiable real-world person to be accountable for the things they do online.

(Really, think about it: the idea that the people who live in Silicon Valley have some magical weirdo culture where social and professional partitioning doesn't exist... well, that's absurd and doesn't even pass the smell test.)

Re:Facebook Dating by dredmorbius on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:27PM (#20891215)
What individual SV tech workers want, and what SV CEOs and VC pursue, are two wildly different things.

Using SV as a synecdoche for "movers and shakers in the information technology / adtech worlds", the statement stands.

Re:Facebook Dating by georgek on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:48PM (#20892600)
As a Greek person I love it when people use our ordinary words as fancy words!
Re:Facebook Dating by kelnos on Friday September 06, 2019 @04:32AM (#20894012)
Not sure if the point you're trying to make. The parent called it a "cultural thing unique Silicon Valley", which to me implied that it's pervasive in people's thinking. But it's not. The fact that some few CEOs seem to think that way does not make it a "cultural thing" by any stretch of the imagination. It's a scheme to make money and gain market share, not commentary on social values.
Re:Facebook Dating by dredmorbius on Friday September 06, 2019 @12:08PM (#20896885)
That the interest in a single unified online identity is not merely exceptional in its association with Silicon Valley, but a specific subset of the Valley: power-brokers and corporate heads.

There are of course exceptions -- rank-and-file tech workers who have drunk the cool aid, and some outside tech who think this is a Good Thing (often for Others but not Themselves).

Ascribing the fixation to SV is, again, generally accurate.

Re:Facebook Dating by basch on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:43PM (#20889109)
It wouldnt be as big a deal, had facebook started as your "public" identity, like linkedin. But instead everybody who signed up 10 years ago was using it as their "private identity with a couple friends."
Re:Facebook Dating by drewzero1 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:45PM (#20890919)
I'm glad it's not just me. I've pretty much abandoned my facebook account because it's full of all my stupid high school personal stuff, and doesn't really feel relevant any more.

Yesterday a colleague had me link a third-party application to a business-related page using my personal account, and it felt like a huge invasion of my personal sphere to have pages for a band I was in ten years ago appear on the list next to the business' pages. (Not to mention giving this third party access to all of my personal information in order to allow it to help manage a few public pages.)

Do social media workers have some kind of strategy for managing their public and private identities? I'm considering creating an alternate account just for business pages, but that seems a bit disingenuous to me.

Re:Facebook Dating by _jal on Thursday September 05, 2019 @09:16PM (#20892155)
> Do social media workers have some kind of strategy for managing their public and private identities?

Got me, I'm a social media refusenik. I have only encountered one third party application for work that was lazy and broken enough to require FB login, and I made up a throwaway account specifically for it. (I also had to remove all the 127.0.0.1 entries for FB names in /etc/hosts, but that's different.)

Does doing that feel disingenuous to you because of Facebook's expectations, or a different reason?

(I personally have zero problems with lying to FB, given that FB routinely and consistently lies to the rest of the world in order to decrease others' ability to not do business with them.)

Re:Facebook Dating by distances on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:22AM (#20893293)
I haven't managed to create throwaway FB accounts for a while now. It always ends up requiring a phone number, and I don't have throwaway phone numbers.
Re:Facebook Dating by jonathankoren on Thursday September 05, 2019 @07:07PM (#20891447)
I have three email addresses not counting my work email. It’s me for professional stuff, a private one, and a junk one for accounts and mailing lists. (Ironically, only my professional one gets spam.)

Not counting work, I guess have three or four Google accounts. (Ironically, none of them are gmail.)

Frankly, I never use the social media sign ons if I can avoid it.

Re:Facebook Dating by cameronbrown on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:38PM (#20892570)
I use a wildcard email forwarder on my domain, it lets me easily look like different people while using the same inbox.
Re:Facebook Dating by mirimir on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:35PM (#20891967)
Way back, Facebook was a place to post pictures of yourself being very drunk.
Re:Facebook Dating by andreilys on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:10PM (#20888746)
>To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley that the rest of the world does not necessarily want.

In China WeChat is synonymous with both your business and personal life.

When networking and meeting business contacts you don’t give out your LinkedIn, you give out your WeChat.

Re:Facebook Dating by mdpye on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:10PM (#20890258)
Is WeChat a social network or a messaging platform? I realise it is expanding, but I'd have no problem doing talking business on WhatsApp (which is the closest analogue to what I understand it to be for).
Re:Facebook Dating by r00fus on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:15PM (#20890281)
The answer is both. Look at FB - major usage is FB messenger.
Re:Facebook Dating by mdpye on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:56PM (#20890560)
Which is a separate app and doesn't leak much to the people you talk to (does it? I don't really use FB or Messenger anymore, I don't remember if you have to be friends to get messages delivered)

Obviously, it leaks loads to Facebook.

Re:Facebook Dating by chomp on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:01PM (#20889266)
Do people have multiple WeChat accounts in China?
Re:Facebook Dating by 9nGQluzmnq3M on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:25PM (#20891911)
You need to provide government ID to unlock many features of WeChat, so that's likely difficult.
Re:Facebook Dating by mgbmtl on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:25PM (#20891194)
I don't know from within China, but from outside China, you can link it to a VoIP account.
Re:Facebook Dating by eli_gottlieb on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:34PM (#20889004)
It's not just you! I have a Facebook (relatively unfiltered, friends-and-comrades-only), a Twitter (kept "academic casual"), and a LinkedIn (kept really stiflingly conformist and corporate). I'm married, so I don't have to worry about dating or dating apps, but dear God, if someone wanted me to use the same persona for every social profile, I'd just shut all of them down.

Hell, I already deleted my reddit account last year just because.

Re:Facebook Dating by core-questions on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:40PM (#20889070)
I deleted my Facebook account ages ago because I needed different personas for different groups of friends, never mind coworkers. Just too much work to try to maintain separation. Terrible place for honest discussion.
Re:Facebook Dating by samlevine on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:29PM (#20889478)
> I think Facebook's goal is to make it so that you have one persona you show to everyone. To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley that the rest of the world does not necessarily want.

I'm from Seattle so I'm not knee deep in that, but I just don't understand how someone can actually have one persona that they represent to the world.

Different situations have different requirements and norms. You're going to have to act differently in different situations.

One might pretend that you're the same in person at work as in close social situations, but this just doesn't seem practical.

Re:Facebook Dating by Diederich on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:53PM (#20890973)
I only have a single, global persona. It's why my username for various sites is either 'dana' (my first name) or 'diederich' (my last name), with very few exceptions.

I've been using the Internet almost daily since 1988, and for the first 8 or 9 years, I embraced being pseudo-anonymous. I really can't say why, it was just what everybody was doing. If all of the online activity of all of my different personas was mixed in public, it would have been no big deal.

Having said that, I understand and respect that, I presume, most people need to be able to maintain different personas.

> You're going to have to act differently in different situations.

While I certainly don't say exactly the same kinds of things to everyone, everywhere, I do generally act the same in every situation.

And I think that's kind of unusual.

Feel free to ask any clarifying questions if you like.

Re:Facebook Dating by matchagaucho on Thursday September 05, 2019 @07:18PM (#20891507)
Without seeing the actual FB dating app, I'm assuming it masks the dating persona, much like joining a FB group, until a true "friend" connection is made.

FB is acutely aware that "[X] is in a relationship with [Y]" is a strong social signal in today's world. So the implication is that genuine identities ultimately should connect via any dating app.

Re:Facebook Dating by scythe on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:51PM (#20888531)
>It seems like a mistake. If you have one persona, that means that you need to optimize that persona for your career and ironically it feels more stiflingly conformist.

With a name like "Facebook Dating", it doesn't sound like they're trying to enter the Tinder-esque hookup space. If the product is focused on long-term relationships, the dating profile and the career profile probably won't have that many differences. At least not for most people, and Facebook (the website) is clearly aimed at "most people".

After all, a Tinder-like app would already face huge competition, whereas the market for online dating services that work for older and/or more conservative people has been largely stagnant and is currently fragmented across sites like "FarmersOnly". You don't gain traction by solving a problem someone else already solved. Old people are lonely too.

Re:Facebook Dating by paggle on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:39PM (#20888397)
The whole Maven / Damore stuff at Google shows the strengths and weaknesses of this “one persona” approach. People in Silicon Valley bring their entire selves to work, they protest their own company when they feel it is not having properly, there’s something to admire about that but most people elsewhere are happy to keep work at work and not get too worked up about what their company is or isn’t doing.
Re:Facebook Dating by asdfman123 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:04PM (#20888675)
And also no one with strong conservative beliefs can really survive or rise to prominence there.

If I brought my whole self to my job in Houston it would not go smoothly.

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:08PM (#20888730)
> they protest their own company when they feel it is not having properly

You're right, but I don't understand that perspective.

If my company is doing something that I think is morally wrong, I'm going to be finding employment elsewhere and telling them why. I might even speak out about it... after I leave.

If we're doing something that I think it's great but doesn't justify my quitting, then I'm going to be speaking up internally about it. Going public with a grievance against your employer just strikes me as being counter-productive - you're risking being fired, you're damaging your future prospects for advancement there, and you're potentially damaging the entity to which you've tied your financial future.

The way I see it, when I work for a company I'm part of their public face. Even though I may not (certainly don't, actually) represent the company, my actions and statements still influence people's impression of the brand. If I'm upset about something enough that I'm willing to damage the company's brand to speak out about it, then I'm upset enough that I don't want to be providing material support to them by continuing to work there.

Re:Facebook Dating by paggle on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:18PM (#20888819)
I think the calculus for most people is: This job is paying me a lot and I don't want to leave it, and I do think that this company can be a net force for good in this world (easier to believe at Google than at Facebook). But I don't want it to do bad things, and if I damage the brand publicly, the company will still survive, but will think twice about doing something like this in the future since they won't be able to just contain it internally.

The people who are just purely about the money won't care enough to protest at all. I think the protesters' intentions are in the right place.

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:25PM (#20888919)
I agree that their intentions are good. I guess what I'm really saying is that I can't relate to them. I understand it intellectually, I just can't quite see things from that perspective.

> I do think that this company can be a net force for good in this world (easier to believe at Google than at Facebook). But I don't want it to do bad things, and if I damage the brand publicly, the company will still survive, but will think twice about doing something like this in the future since they won't be able to just contain it internally.

That's the thing, at least for me - if you believe the company is not currently being a net force for good in the world, then I'd be contributing to something that is a net force for evil. Even if I believed that could be changed in the future, I couldn't do that. It's the difference between utilitarianism and deontology.

Re:Facebook Dating by TheSpiceIsLife on Thursday September 05, 2019 @03:27PM (#20889961)
> People in Silicon Valley

This has got to be an over generalisation, surely?

People in Silicon Valley are highly unlikely to be a homogenous whole.

And given what we know about Gell-Mann Amnesia, it seems likely to me the media’s portrayal of the situation is, at best, amiss, and, at worst, intentionally deceptive.

Probably that a vocal minority generate a kerfuffle, and a huge majority keep mum.

Happy to be proven wrong.

Re:Facebook Dating by paggle on Thursday September 05, 2019 @09:08PM (#20892124)
Women are shorter than men; some women are 7 feet tall.
Re:Facebook Dating by TheSpiceIsLife on Thursday September 05, 2019 @09:16PM (#20892152)
Not sure I follow you?
Re:Facebook Dating by paggle on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:22AM (#20893300)
A statement about differences between two populations can be true without being true for every member of each population.
Re:Facebook Dating by dredmorbius on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:16PM (#20891128)
When I was researching early history of Google+, I ran across mention of NSTIC, the National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace.

Source was Kristine Schachinger's G+ post-mortem:

In the years between 2009-2015 (loosely speaking), there was a push by corporate entities and governments around the world to build an online ecosystem that could replace passwords.

Not only did they want to replace passwords, but they wanted to help better identify the person behind the log-in as a real human, a verified person.

This “verified” identity was to make it, so users were known to the companies they interacted with online.

https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-plus-history-deat...

That inquiry was sparked by Andy Carvin's infamous Q&A with then Google CEO Eric Schmidt:

G+ was built primarily as an identity service, so fundamentally, it depends on people using their real names

https://mashable.com/2011/08/28/google-plus-identity-service...

The National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace proposal itself: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg73124/pdf/CHRG-112... (PDF) (p.26)

(Other Trusted Identity providers included ... Equifax: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2011/10/14/advanci...)

The project was defunded in 2015.

Alex Howard wrote an excellent O'Reilly Radar piece, "A Manhattan Project for Online Identity"

http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/05/nstic-analysis-identity-pri...

My sense is that the entire social media push had a strong national policy agenda behind it. Which appears to have backfired somewhat.

Disclaimer: I helped organise migration off Google+, under the pseudonymous identity of a space alien cat. Dogs are so passe.

Re:Facebook Dating by eeZah7Ux on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:39PM (#20890874)
> If you have one persona, that means that you need to optimize that persona for your career

People are human beings before being little money-making machines. (At least outside of HN...)

Re:Facebook Dating by blaser-waffle on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:14AM (#20895312)
I don't need to know the random opinions of my coworkers. The job is just a job, and if I only know them through work then all I need to see about them is work-related stuff. Leave the personal life at the door.
Re:Facebook Dating by Lammy on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:39PM (#20890448)
> I think Facebook's goal is to make it so that you have one persona you show to everyone.

It's the other way around, in my experience, not a "goal" but a reflection of the people who built it. It made them absurdly rich, and all they know how to do is double down on what makes the numbers go up.

Re:Facebook Dating by dheera on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:47PM (#20890934)
> I think Facebook's goal is to make it so that you have one persona you show to everyone.

How is that Facebook's goal? Considering the available per-post privacy settings and all, I feel like it facilitates having a different persona to different people.

> To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley that the rest of the world does not necessarily want.

I feel like "one persona to everyone" is almost the cultural opposite of Silicon Valley. Like at every birthday party you go to, every person asks "How's your startup going?", it seems that the cultural norm is you're supposed to say "It's going fantastic, how's your startup?" except if they are a close friend, when you say the truth.

Re:Facebook Dating by watwut on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:34PM (#20889009)
I think that has to do with long hours and expectation that you are so passionate, that you spend off time in workplace related social functions.

There is no relevant "out of work" for many people.

Re:Facebook Dating by core-questions on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:39PM (#20889063)
This goes hand in hand with our atomized modern existence: we don't know our neighbours, we don't have anything occupying the place churches used to have in terms of community building with the people who live around us, etc. so we replace it with workplace relationships.

Thing is, workplace colleagues are seldom actually your friends in the true meaning of the term. Many of us lose contact with 99% of the people we worked with when we switch jobs. A friend is someone whom you have an ongoing relationship with independent of where you live or work, I think.

Re:Facebook Dating by asdfman123 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @03:24PM (#20889934)
And that is exactly the world I do not want to live in.
Re:Facebook Dating by novok on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:45PM (#20890924)
Being in silicon valley, I don't think the single persona thing is something that tech people like at all, but rather something unique to facebook or more specifically zuck and his fans.

We might recognize that the internet never forgets and just don't put much out there, but that is a bit different than embracing a single persona life.

Re:Facebook Dating by chongli on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:59PM (#20891023)
I'm not even sure Zuck likes it. It just makes things easier for him and his team of data miners to monetize your information.
Re:Facebook Dating by yagni on Thursday September 05, 2019 @09:12PM (#20892135)
It looks like the Dating profile is separate from your main facebook profile (see the announcement). But that might not give you much comfort since they're still both under the facebook umbrella.
Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:58PM (#20888602)
> If you have one persona, that means that you need to optimize that persona for your career and ironically it feels more stiflingly conformist.

I understand where you're coming from, but this statement isn't necessarily a truism. You can wear who you are on your sleeve and even be quite extreme, if you're a reasonable person who can build and maintain professional relationships.

I do almost everything online under my real name, and am not optimized for career purposes. It's just me. As a result, I've had my political beliefs and such come up in interviews on multiple occasions. In one case - as I found out a year or so after being laid off - my interview process took a couple of weeks longer than was typical because one of the executives/partners at the company was concerned specifically about my politics. On the other hand, I did in fact get that job (and loved it!) and I've gotten several connections and invitations to apply based upon my discussions. Surprisingly, they seem to be about evenly split between people who agree and who disagree with my stances. I'm passionate about political issues, but I do my best to be accommodating to others and not be aggressive about them.

It would be fair to say that my positions are pretty extreme, too. I'm a political anarchist; Anarcho-Capitalist / Voluntaryist, to be more precise. I am open about that even in professional settings because it has such an influence on how I approach relationships and the world in general. I tend to be a "systems thinker", and see everything as a balance of competing forces. I see the whole world through this lens; everything is influenced by incentives and disincentives. I have exactly one tattoo, a stylized graph of supply and demand.

Re:Facebook Dating by asdfman123 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:02PM (#20888651)
Okay, try putting "Card-carrying gun owner and anti-abortion activist" on your resume and apply for big tech companies.

Or hell, even start a personal blog using your real name talking about opinions that are anathema to coastal dwellers. Watch your callback rate dramatically decline.

I grew up in a suburb of a conservative state, and I learned early on when to show "who I am and what I really believe" and when to be low-key about it. Others like me who did not learn that skill were bullied relentlessly. I got along pretty well.

If you actually had opinions many people disagreed with strongly, you'd be bullied and held back as well.

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:19PM (#20888844)
> Okay, try putting "Card-carrying gun owner and anti-abortion activist" on your resume and apply for big tech companies.

Well, a resume isn't a place for that sort of thing at all, but I do pretty much that now. My name is unique - look me up. For what that's worth, a good portion of my posts even here on HN have something to do with guns. I try to be more "informative" than "confrontational", but that's because of the nature of the site more than anything else. I'm here to discuss, share, and learn, not to argue.

I'm definitely a "card-carrying gun owner". I literally put guns in the hands of children on a regular basis (I'm a 4-H youth firearms instructor), a past board member of a state gun rights organization, and an outspoken advocate for the recognition of individuals' rights to both defend themselves and to own and carry the most effective tools possible to that end.

It would be fair to say that I'm anti-abortion as well, with the caveat that I'm much more anti-government. I believe abortion is a terrible thing, but I also believe that giving government the power to prevent it would be much, much worse.

> Or hell, even start a personal blog using your real name talking about opinions that are anathema to coastal dwellers.

I need to redesign my blog, and post more often, but hey - it's still in my real name: http://www.lyndsysimon.com/category/politics.html

> If you actually had opinions many people disagreed with strongly, you'd be bullied and held back as well.

Did you read my last paragraph? I'm an anarchist. The license plate on my Jeep is literally "ANARCHY." I'm actually not sure I could name a political position that's more strongly opposed by more people.

[edited for spelling]

Re:Facebook Dating by magashna on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:31PM (#20888982)
>I'm an anarchist. The license plate on my Jeep is literally "ANARCHY."

Paying the government a premium to say you don't believe in it, that's rich.

Re:Facebook Dating by mtberatwork on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:54PM (#20890545)
Reminds me of the people who pay extra to the state to have the Gadsden flag license plate.
Re:Facebook Dating by blaser-waffle on Friday September 06, 2019 @09:12AM (#20895289)
They love those in Virginia
Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Friday September 06, 2019 @02:38PM (#20898471)
Ha! Funnily enough, I lived there for five years. My Arkansas "ANARCHY" plate replaced my Virginai "4NO GOV" plate: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/279byb/...
Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:36PM (#20889030)
Re:Facebook Dating by CamperBob2 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:04PM (#20890627)
It's massively OT for this thread, but it's interesting that you consider anarchy the natural state. Aren't humans absolutely hardwired to form hierarchies and seek leaders?

It seems that we're just as compelled to create presidents, kings, and gods for ourselves as pack animals are to follow their alphas. The lone wolf is the vanishingly-rare exception in the animal kingdom, just as the anarchist is in the realm of human politics. NTTAWWT as far as having a lone-wolf personality type is concerned, but any model of human interaction that seeks to exalt the lone-wolf nature in each of us seems bound to fail. (Small-scale egalitarianism is just a separate case of that, since the same hierarchies will inevitably emerge between groups.)

If this condition isn't "natural," then why do things always -- virtually without exception and never sustainably so -- turn out that way?

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Friday September 06, 2019 @02:48PM (#20898592)
I don't think I disagree with anything you said here, I just sorta see it from a different perspective.

I didn't mean "natural" as "default" or "as found in nature" - I meant it in the sense of a "natural right". Anarchy is the social and political system we start with, and government is a distortion placed upon it. Further, government's nature is to grow in scope and power over time. This growth leads to tyranny, and eventually, to rebellion.

Honestly, I'm not sure that a truly anarchic society is either possible or stable. I see it as an ideal, not something that I think is reasonable to see in my lifetime. To put it another way - I don't want to destroy the government, I want to shrink it to the point that people question the need for it and eventually just decide to stop pretending we have one.

Re:Facebook Dating by pequalsnp on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:44PM (#20890917)
Not GP, but I stumbled across this website in college[1] that had a lot of interesting articles on anarchy and “the worker’s collective.”

I don’t agree with the viewpoints but I learned a lot from it! Really cool material.

[1] - https://crimethinc.com/

Re:Facebook Dating by paulddraper on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:38PM (#20890865)
> Well, a resume isn't a place for that sort of thing at all

Exactly. Which is why people put different stuff on LinkedIn, FB, and dating apps.

When you combine those three, your dating profile is your resume is your friends and family persona.

> but I do pretty much that now

Good on you.

But it's not just alarmist speculation to say those things can have a serious impact on your career.

Mozilla's CEO was fired (or some version of that) for having years before donated a modest sum to a then-majority-popular activism group.

If the inventor of JavaScript can be pushed out for a now-unpopular stance, imagine the career consequences for the rest of us.

Re:Facebook Dating by kd3 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:58PM (#20889223)
I like your approach very much.
Re:Facebook Dating by asdfgasd on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:51PM (#20889166)
> I'm an anarchist. The license plate on my Jeep is literally "ANARCHY." I'm actually not sure I could name a political position that's more strongly opposed by more people.

You're not an anarchist and you should stop try to adopt an identity with a vivid anti-capitalist history to represent your desire for corporate feudalism with guns. Anarchists are socialists and anything otherwise is misusing the word.

You aren't harassed for your beliefs because people with your economic beliefs literally hold every branch of government.

I'm sure you'll come back with something about republicans wanting big government to police morality, but those differences mean almost nothing when your economic incentives are aligned.

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:03PM (#20889288)
> Anarchists are socialists and anything otherwise is misusing the word.

So.. you're saying that the other anarchists "own" the word itself? How does that work, exactly? Is it their private property, or merely a personal possession?

I jest, of course; I mean no offense.

The fact is, "Anarcho-Capitalist" is the most precise term for the economic side of my beliefs I've found. "Voluntarist" is the most precise term for the social side. I'll continue to use those terms until I find more descriptive ones.

> I'm sure you'll come back with something about republicans wanting big government to police morality, but those differences mean almost nothing when your economic incentives are aligned.

I'm pretty disillusioned with both major parties; I'm not going to be defending "Republicans".

I generally get along better socially with people on the political right, but that's because I grew up in a "Red State" not because of a greater number of shared beliefs.

Re:Facebook Dating by scarface74 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:28PM (#20889473)
Okay, try putting "Card-carrying gun owner and anti-abortion activist" on your resume and apply for big tech companies.

Even if someone did put something on their resume that I personally agreed with, I still wouldn’t hire them. In the context of work, I only want someone who comes to work to do the best job they can at the company, collect a check and go home. I don’t want to talk about politics at work.

Sort of related, my wife and I are Black in a mostly White part of the city. We rode an Uber and the driver who was also Black immediately started talking politics because he assumed we “would relate to each other”. I agreed with most of his political points but that’s not what we wanted to hear when we are just wanting to have a relaxing night on the town, and have a few too many drinks.

Re:Facebook Dating by kmonsen on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:09PM (#20889327)
I work for a big tech company and I can guarantee you that it will not count against you. Some of my very successful friends and people I look up to come from conservative backgrounds and are outspoken about it.

That being said you need to be respectful of everyone, regardless of their religion, ethnicity, gender identification etc. I think it is very possible to do that and still be a strong conservative.

Re:Facebook Dating by drevil-v2 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:51PM (#20890959)
Bullshit. You can be as conservative as you want as long as you remain silent and not protest anything at all that the diversity and inclusivity mob proposes. One word against that crowd in a SV tech company and you are dead in every sense of the word except physically.

That is the power dynamic of our times and hence why the need for dual personas.

Re:Facebook Dating by ghostbrainalpha on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:26PM (#20888930)
You describe yourself as extreme, but then say people are evenly split between those who disagree and agree with your stances. So while your position may feel extreme, in consequence it is the definition of moderate.

And obviously you are coming from a specific background and applying for types of jobs where a your contribution is valuable enough to the company that they are willing to overlook potential political issues.

If you were not as skilled, or applying for government, non-profit, banking jobs, or jobs in Red States your experience might have been completely different.

So try to recognize your coming from a privileged position. I know my organization checks Twitter accounts when they get resumes, and they will throw away the ones that use foul language immediately. This is bizarre and backward to be sure, and I'm fighting to change that but its still goes on currently.

Edit: After googling you, you are awesome, fountain pens are awesome, and smart people everywhere should want to hire you.

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:41PM (#20889079)
> Edit: After googling you, you are awesome, fountain pens are awesome, and smart people everywhere should want to hire you.

LOL - well, thank you very much!

Fountain pens are in fact awesome. I'm carrying a semi-custom Indian pen today, an ASA Galactic. I replaced the nib it came with with a TWSBI #6 in extra-fine that I pulled off a broken Vac700. I've smoothed it a great deal and it's probably somewhere between a medium and a fine right now. I have a broad nib that will fit it as well that I'm thinking of grinding into an Architect. My work notebook is a top-bound Clairefontaine A4. I prefer French ruled, but am using "plain" ruled right now.

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:35PM (#20889020)
> You describe yourself as extreme, but then say people are evenly split between those who disagree and agree with your stances. So while your position may feel extreme, in consequence it is the definition of moderate.

I think you misunderstand - I'm saying that the professional contacts I've gained through this are about evenly split. Those contacts are not representative of the general population; people who agree with me are very disproportionally represented.

> And obviously you are coming from a specific background and applying for types of jobs where a your contribution is valuable enough to the company that they are willing to overlook potential political issues.

Of course. This applied even before I was a developer, though. For instance: when I was working as an electrician.

> If you were not as skilled, or applying for government, non-profit, banking jobs, or jobs in Red States your experience might have been completely different.

I could never work for government. I've worked for non-profits for the three of the past seven years, and the fact that they were considering accepting federal funding was a factor in my leaving that job.

I live in Arkansas, one of the reddest of Red States. My employer is in California. My previous employers are mostly in Charlottesvlle, Virginia.

> So try to recognize your coming from a privileged position.

I never said I wasn't - everyone here is coming from a privileged position. That's potentially relevant when considering what I say, but it doesn't make my perspective invalid.

> I know my organization checks Twitter accounts when they get resumes, and they will throw away the ones that use foul language immediately. This is bizarre and backward to be sure, and I'm fighting to change that but its still goes on currently.

I'm OK with that, because as I said before I see protecting the company's brand image as part of the employment contract. I wouldn't want someone working for (or with) me that doesn't come across as a reasonably mature adult. I wouldn't disqualify someone for "foul language" in and of itself, but I would absolutely do so if it featured prominently in their speech or if it were being used in an aggressive way.

Re:Facebook Dating by verall on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:38PM (#20889052)
Gosh man, I really mean no offense to you, but I am really glad people I work with are not this open about their viewpoints.

Plenty of people probably think some of my views are wacko, but because they are reletively personal, noone needs to confront my wacko views. I would really prefer not to work with anyone who openly and gleefully calls themselves an anarcho-capitalist. I probably work with some people that hold similar views, but by separating our personal and work lives, we can work productively together without needing to confront that.

Different strokes for different folks though, or something, I guess.

Re:Facebook Dating by LyndsySimon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:55PM (#20889196)
> Gosh man, I really mean no offense to you, but I am really glad people I work with are not this open about their viewpoints.

No offense taken whatsoever.

I will note that "open" is not the same thing as "aggressive". I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable at work. For one thing, I'm an empathetic person and don't like to think that I've unintentionally offended someone. For another... if someone is working with me, by definition we're contributing toward the same things. Alienating them would harm damage that cooperative action, and I wouldn't be there if I didn't think it was right.

> I would really prefer not to work with anyone who openly and gleefully calls themselves an anarcho-capitalist.

Why? People's actions are what I care about, not their reasons for them.

At a previous employer I was working to increase access to scientific publications and supporting materials to the general public. One of the reasons I think that's important is because much of the work is funded by taxes, and I view it as much worse to use tax dollars for private gain than to use it and at least make the results available to anyone. Several of my coworkers were authoritarian socialists of various stripes. Their reasons for wanting to make that stuff available were wholly different from mine - but we shared a common cause. We'd discuss politics sometimes over beers or after a "crunch time" when we were all in the office at 2am and a bit delirious, but otherwise it just didn't come up.

> without needing to confront that

Ahh, that's the rub. I know I'm an extreme minority politically. I know many of the people I work with and interact with on a daily basis hold positions antithetical to my own. I have zero desire to "confront" that. Discuss it? Sure, if they're open to it. I'm happy to debate if someone wants to do so (and if they're similarly willing to not make it personal), because that's how I arrived at my positions.

Metaphorically, I feel like my positions have been forged over time by repeatedly beaten against the anvil of others' positions. Where they were deformed, they were weak. I modified them and repeated the process. At 35 years old, I feel like my views are fairly rigid - but that doesn't mean they are unchangeable, and it's because I continually do my best to test them and look for weaknesses. To me, a good political discussion is one where I come away with something to think about that I hadn't considered before. A great one would be where an inconsistency in my positions was pointed out to me.

I actively try to avoid this conversations with coworkers, because many people aren't comfortable with them. That's OK. If they change their mind later I'm happy to oblige, but it's not like forcing people to argue politics is something desirable.

Re:Facebook Dating by pretendscholar on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:46PM (#20889620)
>I'm a political anarchist; Anarcho-Capitalist

Anarcho-Capitalists wouldn't be considered anarchists. An-arch means without order. Ancaps believe in private property and hierarchy as a beneficial and necessary feature in society. Anarchists traditionally believe in equality as an intrinsic good.

Re:Facebook Dating by dontbenebby on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:26PM (#20891208)
>I think Facebook's goal is to make it so that you have one persona you show to everyone. To me, that seems like a cultural thing unique to Silicon Valley

Reminds me more of DC.

Re:Facebook Dating by msoad on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:00AM (#20887376)
I think this is an "old people's thinking" perspective. Younger generation are way more open about their dating life than us. They openly talk about their dating life at work or friends group. They don't mind getting matched with a coworker or classmate.
Re:Facebook Dating by tyre on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:23AM (#20887625)
How old is old? I'm 28 and would not use this because I don't trust Facebook.

My little brother is 16 and I know he won't use this because no one he knows uses Facebook. I don't even think he has an account. They're all on Snapchat and IG. I was talking to him about this last week. They all think of Facebook as for a different generation. As stale.

I feel similarly and know a lot of my circle does too. Except for events and sometimes messaging, nothing happens there.

Re:Facebook Dating by JesseAldridge on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:43PM (#20890473)
> My little brother is 16 and I know he won't use this because no one he knows uses Facebook.

Is this really true? I heard from someone at Facebook that while teenagers say they don't use Facebook, if you look at the stats, they definitely do.

Re:Facebook Dating by adjkant on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:09PM (#20891797)
Very true in my experience. While many (maybe 60%) still have an account, they basically do nothing with it. If you're a Facebook employee you may see that number of signups number and go "yeah they are using it" but the amount of use is VERY different from what I can tell.

Generally I'm very in agreement with the parent: The older won't want to use Facebook for dating, the younger would never look to Facebook.

That said, I'd go even farther and say the original claims are offbase here. First, teens absolutely have multiple personas they show, but they tend to be privacy circle based in that there are maybe 3/4 levels and they share increasingly more/less with each level.

Not only that, Facebook knows this. Instagram launched "close friends" explicitly because everyone was using "sinstas" and "finstas" to post to a smaller subset of people.

To me, all of this says that Facebook is probably targeting an older market of maybe say Match/OkCupid users who aren't used to a type of Hinge style interface. Anyone I know on Hinge would laugh you out of the room if you asked them to switch to Facebook dating.

Re:Facebook Dating by NoodleIncident on Thursday September 05, 2019 @09:28PM (#20892213)
> number of signups

Definitely not. DAU and MAU are what they base their user numbers and big milestones on

Re:Facebook Dating by adjkant on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:00PM (#20892381)
Wrong verbiage, point still stands. Probably a decent number of MAU on Facebook in that range but logging in and checking one thing twice a month is a big usage difference from daily or semi daily sessions that last for minutes, not seconds.
Re:Facebook Dating by input_sh on Friday September 06, 2019 @01:39AM (#20893353)
"Active" there means opened, not actively consumed. I'm "active" almost every day, but the majority of my sessions are below 20 seconds. They mean nothing to Facebook, and they mean nothing to me. Facebook lost the value it had for me.
Re:Facebook Dating by jedberg on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:02PM (#20891755)
Another anecdata, but our kid's babysitter (also 16) doesn't have a Facebook account, and neither does her twin sister. They both have IG and Snap though. She said the same thing: "Facebook is for old people".

Also my 20 year old cousin didn't have a FB account until he went to college and was forced to get one to join some local FB groups. But he only uses it for that. Otherwise he's on IG and Snap.

Re:Facebook Dating by 8ytecoder on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:35PM (#20890838)
They use FB Messenger for sure. From what I hear it's still popular among younger cohorts.
Re:Facebook Dating by PunchTornado on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:39AM (#20887792)
and still fb grows and grows and grows, be it instagram, whatsup or the blue app, facebook doesn't seem affected by opinions of hacker news people. in many countries it is basically the internet wether you like it or not.
Re:Facebook Dating by tyre on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:47AM (#20887865)
My comment was specifically about Facebook.com and acknowledged that younger users are moving to instagram. I didn't say younger people are leaving all Facebook-owned subsidiaries.

Similarly, I referenced my circle of friends—who are not hacker news people—as not using Facebook either.

Re:Facebook Dating by seisvelas on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:43AM (#20887828)
I think in a marketers mind, you are from the outbound Millenial generation rather than the current 'young' Generation Z (or Zoomers as they're called in the Wojak meme world).
Re:Facebook Dating by tyre on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:48AM (#20887876)
Which is why I shared the opinions and behaviours of my brother, who is 16. He's that next generation.
Re:Facebook Dating by some_furry on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:44AM (#20887840)
> Younger generation are way more open about their dating life than us. They openly talk about their dating life at work or friends group. They don't mind getting matched with a coworker or classmate.

Being young and LGBTQIA+, I can assure you that I never discuss my dating life at work or with my relatives (none of whom know I'm gay, but thankfully, I don't live with them anymore).

Until there are strict federal anti-discrimination protections for LGBTQIA+ folks, I'll never trust an employer to know that side of my life.

Re:Facebook Dating by sterlind on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:21PM (#20888216)
OkCupid's "hide my profile from straight people" feature is fantastic for exactly this reason. Pity the site's fallen out of favor, it's the one dating app I felt comfortable with.
Re:Facebook Dating by yodon on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:04AM (#20887426)
It's not a generational thing, it's called being in your 20's. Those currently well past their 20's talked openly about their dating when they were 20, too.
Re:Facebook Dating by dbg31415 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:53AM (#20887926)
Do people under 25 even use Facebook? I mean... most of them see it as another LinkedIn for sharing Granny Photos.

I was on Bumble a little late at night... kinda mindlessly swiping... girl looked cute... little familiar... swipe... Instantly realize as it chimes with "boom" that it was my boss. Nope nope nope, delete the whole thing and never return. They all have a problem around showing you co-workers, and it'd be so easy to just be like, "Cool, never show me people who work here, or never show me people I know on Facebook / LinkedIn." Wouldn't catch everything, but it'd catch a lot of it. Ha, and... the bigger problem I guess is that I don't really trust any of these sites to link them to Facebook or LinkedIn. They all seem fundamentally scammy and spammy.

But... I've had some fun with Bumble. Just... yeah I don't even trust it with my Spotify playlists.

Re:Facebook Dating by Barrin92 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:17AM (#20887572)
>They don't mind getting matched with a coworker or classmate.

they don't mind now. One of the big problems with digital transparency is that this information will be hard to get rid off if they ever wish to in the future.

Is openness about past relationships in the workplace still a good idea if it leads to some sort of office intrigue a year or two down the line?

Re:Facebook Dating by thrownaway954 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:34AM (#20887743)
That is a HUGE generalization. You may be open about your dating life, but that doesn't mean everyone is nor do they want it to be associated with their professional life. True in point, say you are into a kink, do you want everyone in your social circle knowing about it?
Re:Facebook Dating by KaoruAoiShiho on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:03AM (#20887417)
Yeah it's a load of assumptions, I'm chalking it more up to a "socially anxious person's thinking" than "old" person's thinking. For many people I think being able to smoothly integrate their existing social life into a dating app is a godsend.
Re:Facebook Dating by ummonk on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:06PM (#20888064)
Right, I mean secret crush seems like a real improvement over the status quo in its ability to discover potential relationships without risking making existing friendships awkward.
Re:Facebook Dating by twic on Thursday September 05, 2019 @03:36PM (#20890019)
You would think. Those of us who have been wasting time on the internet for long enough remember the Secret Crush Meme from LiveJournal [1], which worked just like this. It was great up until someone realised they could just say they had a crush on everyone they knew to get a list of who had crushes on them, without any genuine reciprocity of the crush.

If you could figure out a way to make it somehow costly to falsely say you have a crush on someone, this might work, but until then, this is game-theoretically wince-inducing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_matching

Re:Facebook Dating by skinnymuch on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:32PM (#20891946)
Generally speaking for 99%+ of people, You shouldn’t have more than a few crushes at once. And they shouldn’t change that often. That would’ve curbed that a lot without restricting many people
Re:Facebook Dating by mwilliaams on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:33PM (#20891244)
Maybe just limit the number of people you can have a crush on at once.
Re:Facebook Dating by lbotos on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:06AM (#20887454)
Yes, but also, young people also use may different digital personas "just like us".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/10/20/d...

Some degree of separation/anonymity is still something people want even if they are more transparent about the outcomes.

Re:Facebook Dating by taude on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:11AM (#20887502)
I didn't think young people used the Facebook brand anymore? If all the stories that have been published about that are to be believed.
Re:Facebook Dating by n8henry on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:20AM (#20887598)
They don't. They should have called this Instagram Dating, but Zuck doesn't want to admit that the Facebook brand is no longer "cool"
Re:Facebook Dating by aylmao on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:50PM (#20890515)
I think dating being "cool" is dangerous territory, and probably why Facebook dating didn't exist until now.

That's Tinder territory, and tinder doesn't have a great reputation as an app that's "healthy".

Re:Facebook Dating by bitbuilder on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:24AM (#20887630)
I have plenty of people in my extended friend group who are in their mid to late 20s, and most of them are still quite active on FB.

Nobody thinks it's cool or fun anymore, of course. But it's still the go-to spot for sharing life events, family news, anything you want to brag about really. Or any vacation pictures that you'd like grandma and grandpa to see.

IG is still image driven, so it's not a platform you can easily use for relaying text based information to your social network.

Re:Facebook Dating by tayo42 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:33AM (#20887733)
Mid to late 20s are the old people everyone's talking. That age group was in high school when Facebook was getting popular

Young is like current high school and college

Re:Facebook Dating by romanhn on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @05:53PM (#21000481)
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Re:Facebook Dating by skinnymuch on Thursday September 05, 2019 @08:33PM (#20891952)
Late 20s is def old (I can personally attest to that). Mid 20s might be too? In the context of what’s being discussed here.
Re:Facebook Dating by FillardMillmore on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:25AM (#20887648)
It makes me wonder how sensitive generation Z is to privacy concerns. It would seem to me that there would be vast differences between that generation and say, Gen X and Boomers (who for a long time refused to share credit card numbers with e-commerce sites). Perhaps the true success of this feature will become apparent with the coming Generation(s), assuming Facebook manages to maintain its position as the premier social networking site.
Re:Facebook Dating by ses1984 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:34AM (#20887740)
Boomers I know can't even conceive of how privacy has been eroded. Sure they won't share cc numbers with ecommerce sites but they have no problem giving up every detail of their life to facebook.
Re:Facebook Dating by mywittyname on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:29AM (#20887687)
I think they will be even more sensitive to privacy and understand better about wearing a different mask for different groups. They grew up with this understanding that FB was where their parents are, thus were conscious about curating their image. Likewise, I'm sure they will continue to treat other social media with the same scrutiny.

People in their 30s grew up in an era where FB allowed only college students. And they were old enough not to really care once it became open to their parents.

Re:Facebook Dating by pmart123 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:02PM (#20892397)
I would say they are a lot more sensitive. They witnessed all the millennials post anything and everything on social media at first with little regard future consequences. I think there is a much better cognitive understanding that anything you post is permanent versus in 2007.
Re:Facebook Dating by kace91 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:24AM (#20887633)
> They openly talk about their dating life at work or friends group. They don't mind getting matched with a coworker or classmate. reply

Coworkers and classmates aren't the problem. For young people, facebook is where mom and grandma is. Not that you're gonna match with them, but just sharing the name is a turn off.

Re:Facebook Dating by carbocation on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:18AM (#20887580)
Counterpoint: Finsta accounts.
Re:Facebook Dating by 8ytecoder on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:38PM (#20890855)
Personal observation: It depends on the environment and not the age range.
Re:Facebook Dating by jvagner on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:12AM (#20887509)
...but maybe: until they get older...
Re:Facebook Dating by JorgeGT on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:51AM (#20887270)
From their privacy page, interesting bit: You can also choose how you want to present yourself to potential matches, like whether you provide different information than you have on your Facebook profile
Re:Facebook Dating by ocdtrekkie on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:24PM (#20888249)
There are definitely upsides to this, like being able to put your general geographic area than your exact town which you might have on Facebook, for instance. But I'm curious also if it is usable to be downright dishonest.

For one, I think people will be less willing to lie in a form where one company can see both profiles, but on the other side, it comes down to what Facebook lets you change. Hopefully they won't let your profile specify two different ages, for instance.

Re:Facebook Dating by zelon88 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:03AM (#20887414)
I see where you're coming from. This is exactly why Tinder is so popular.

Just because I go out on a date with someone doesn't mean I want to be friends with them on Facebook.

Re:Facebook Dating by galfarragem on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:15AM (#20887553)
> Just because I go out on a date with someone doesn't mean I want to be friends with them on Facebook.

That's true for casual dating. By the other hand on older demographics, I think they nailed it: I suspect among older people, casual dating is less relevant, so they are not afraid of adding eachother as friends. And they don't need to install anything else..

Re:Facebook Dating by jonnycomputer on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:33AM (#20887732)
The ad's photograph isn't targeted at older people.
Re:Facebook Dating by passivepinetree on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:25PM (#20888257)
That's a common mistake. Ads don't always (and you could argue rarely) show their target demographic.

Easy example: ever seen an overweight person in a fast food commercial?

Re:Facebook Dating by ansible on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:25PM (#20890768)
Easier example: toys for kids.

They'll usually use slightly older kids in a toy advertisement than the actual target demographic they're trying to sell to.

Part of that is that kids generally don't want to be seen as playing with toys for younger kids.

Re:Facebook Dating by reaperducer on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:35PM (#20888354)
Ads don't always (and you could argue rarely) show their target demographic.

I see plenty of overweight people in ads for diabetes treatments. I see plenty of fit people in ads for workout machines. Right now I see an ad on the side of a bus encouraging people to get free STD testing, and it shows people dancing at a club.

There are aspirational ads, but the use of "rare" in your comment doesn't reflect reality.

Re:Facebook Dating by kube-system on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:50PM (#20889163)
The era of 'supersize me' fast food marketing is long gone. Most fast food restaurants are not targeting that specific of a market anymore, they're aiming at a much large cross-section of the population. A better example would be an all-you-can-eat buffet.
Re:Facebook Dating by dublinben on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:59PM (#20889742)
According to the CDC, over 70% of American adults are overweight or obese, so by targeting a "large cross-section" of the population restaurants are in fact aiming at 'large' customers. This reality isn't represented in advertising for obvious reasons.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

Re:Facebook Dating by kube-system on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:05PM (#20890223)
Specifically targeting a population, and the coincidental demographics of that population are two entirely different things.

That 70% is part of the 100% which they are actually targeting, but only coincidentally. There are plenty of fast food ads targeting health-conscious consumers.

You could also point out that 70% of Americans are also Christian, but that doesn't mean every company that sells to Americans specifically targets Christian customers...

...also, most large fast food companies also have a significant presence in multiple countries.

Re:Facebook Dating by jonnycomputer on Monday September 09, 2019 @09:33AM (#20917961)
why would you target a dying demographic? facebook users of my generation started FB in college, and have stuck on. targeting younger people is FB is smart, unless it wants to be come the next AOL.
Re:Facebook Dating by 0x8BADF00D on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:40AM (#20887799)
It’s too little too late. There are well established incumbents for both serious dating and casual dating. It might be more convenient for the older people looking for more serious relationships.

But there will be a very small segment of people they can capture that isn’t already captive to another bigger player like OKCupid or Match.

Re:Facebook Dating by tryitnow on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:50AM (#20887250)
I agree, but I think the "dating self" and the "facebook self" overlap a lot for most people.

It's also important for a dating app to have critical mass. Almost everyone is on FB, only a fraction of those people are on IG.

Re:Facebook Dating by jonknee on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:53AM (#20887287)
Among all people sure, but among people in the dating demographic? I would not be surprised at all if more people in prime dating ages are on IG than FB (especially in an active manner, do young people post on FB in any real way?).
Re:Facebook Dating by StrangeDoctor on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:58AM (#20887355)
I think you’ve gone astray equating young with prime dating, all you need is like seeking like, and both using FB is probably a good start.
Re:Facebook Dating by jonknee on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:18AM (#20887579)
Facebook has pitched this showing young people so I assumed that's their market. I guess the boomer dating market is probably underserved, maybe that's what they're actually going for.
Re:Facebook Dating by jacobush on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:55AM (#20887311)
I agree for I what I assume you mean by prime dating ages, but think there are more prime dating ages which are not so "prime" in other ways, if you will.
Re:Facebook Dating by roland35 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:00AM (#20887385)
I think it also would be too complicated for many people to keep track of, and I am sure it would be easy to make a mistake of typing something in the wrong profile!

I certainly wouldn't want my grandma to know I like long walks on the beach!

Re:Facebook Dating by technofiend on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:06AM (#20887455)
It also seems particularly poorly timed when a breach exposing Facebook user phone numbers just made hacker news yesterday. Does anyone really want to trust a dating service that aggressively collects anything and everything about a person and may accidentally share it? Sounds like a stalker's paradise.
Re:Facebook Dating by saagarjha on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:14AM (#20887544)
Unfortunately, I doubt many outside of Hacker News heard about this.
Re:Facebook Dating by steve_gh on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:53AM (#20887938)
Re:Facebook Dating by scarface74 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:36PM (#20889547)
Facebook has had plenty of data breaches and in the aggregate no one cared enough to delete their account.
Re:Facebook Dating by technofiend on Saturday September 07, 2019 @08:58PM (#20907818)
>no one cares enough to delete their account.

That's demonstrably untrue: there are articles at the top of Google results about this very subject including a guide on how to do it on The New York Times that references the breaches.

https://www.narcity.com/news/canadians-are-deleting-their-fa...

Anecdotally I deleted mine over privacy concerns but it was prior to the breaches. My wife didn't like the fact that friends of friends could see photos of her. She didn't know those people and didn't like it. I was more exasperated by Facebook tweaking privacy knobs through updates and was always to share more not less.

So I deleted my account since I couldn't promise that even if I choose privacy settings today that protected her privacy they'd be there tomorrow. Ironically she's still a Facebook customer and has no clue how to change privacy settings, but that's between her and Facebook.

Re:Facebook Dating by ryanmarsh on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:36AM (#20887760)
FTA Starting today, you can choose to opt into Facebook Dating and create a Dating profile (separate from your main profile)

Facebook's loss of interest amongst Gen Z notwithstanding, your profile is apparently different.

So glad I'm married and not having to date in this online zoo.

Re:Facebook Dating by aylmao on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:48PM (#20890505)
I actually think it's a strange but probably a solid strategy under a couple of assumptions:

1. They want to differentiate their dating product. 2. There's a sector of the population interested in dating but that at the moment is underserved, too shy to try it, or just on the fence about putting the effort to try it out.

What this does is it essentially puts a dating app on everyone's phone, reducing the friction it takes to give online dating a shot.

It also "feels" different and more serious. Anecdotally Facebook seems to be, amongst my circles, a lot about life events or important stuff and less about the casual, funny, edgy, etc persona. By associating that image with their dating platform, they give it a strong identity for the get go as a place for serious relationships.

> Even announcing this through the instagram brand would have made more sense to me.

Would it? I feel like Instagram is better off being about friends and oneself, and it could be tarnished by involving dating. What dating "identity" would befall upon it? Would it lean on the side of Tinder— superficial, more about hookups than long-lasting relationships, etc? I associate instagram with influencers, young people (as in, teens), etc a lot so branding-wise it doesn't make that much sense to me personally, though of course, this is just my opinion.

Re:Facebook Dating by wheelerwj on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:51AM (#20887908)
> it's that there are very different faces of ourselves that we show to the professional world, to our friends, to partners, and to the world at large

its almost like facebook doesn't understand privacy at all...

Re:Facebook Dating by VWWHFSfQ on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:54AM (#20887941)
they understand it perfectly well.
Re:Facebook Dating by reaperducer on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:35PM (#20888357)
They just don't care.
Re:Facebook Dating by vokep on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:38PM (#20890862)
It seems they do care, but about actively destroying any idea of privacy. Zuckerberg has said before that he feels people need to be accountable and one way of doing that is forcing us all into a singular identity.

https://www.michaelzimmer.org/2010/05/14/facebooks-zuckerber...

Re:Facebook Dating by kostarelo on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:54PM (#20888556)
> it's that there are very different faces of ourselves that we show to the professional world, to our friends, to partners, and to the world at large

I am not sure about this, I used to think like that but the older I grow the less I care. I even embrace the fact to show the same persona everywhere.

I haven't been actively using FB for the past few years though but maybe this is something that newer generations have already concluded in.

Re:Facebook Dating by kelnos on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:01PM (#20890612)
This is a very personal thing. For some people (I would guess most people), it matters, and they -- at the very least -- present a different face when at work vs. out with friends. Many people have further stratification.

I do get what you mean, though. As I've gotten older, I've found that maintaining different personas is just exhausting and not really worth it. But I also don't have anything in my life that I'd be embarrassed about depending on audience, and I don't consider myself a member of any underrepresented groups or subcultures that the mainstream would consider "weird" or somehow undesirable. So it's easy for me, which isn't true for everyone else.

Re:Facebook Dating by scarface74 on Thursday September 05, 2019 @02:17PM (#20889385)
I meet a lot of people who protest facebook by moving to Instagram/WhatsApp. Even announcing this through the instagram brand would have made more sense to me.

We have real numbers about Facebook and they no more jibe with your anecdotal experience than all of the geek rage about Uber, Amazon, or that people care about “openness” and the “right to repair”.

Re:Facebook Dating by suyash on Thursday September 05, 2019 @05:28PM (#20890795)
I think you misunderstood Facebook's strategy here completely. The whole point of this feature is to add value to Facebook's main app, as this is a feature in the app and not a separate app itself, it makes the product more sticky and less likely people will delete their facebook account in future.
Re:Facebook Dating by buboard on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:15PM (#20888149)
In my country facebook is by far the #1 dating site people use. In fact "Facebook dating" is reduntant
Re:Facebook Dating by dlivingston on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:50PM (#20888516)
Can you explain this further?
Re:Facebook Dating by buboard on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:00PM (#20888626)
depends on the dating culture. Casual dating apps are not popular here, so people use facebook messaging
Re:Facebook Dating by dlivingston on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:08PM (#20888727)
Okay, walk me through this - do you, say, see a cute girl (friend of a friend, someone in your city, etc.) that you might fancy, and just randomly send her a message?
Re:Facebook Dating by cocochanel on Friday September 06, 2019 @03:01AM (#20893641)
Yes. You casually introduce yourself, mention a thing or two in common (same groups for instance), and ask if they'd be interested in getting to know each other —assuming you have a solid FB profile and not something fake. Pretty much like you'd walk up to a person in a real life in a social setting and say Hi. Many of my friends met their girlfriends like that. If you don't get a reply then that's your answer, no hard feelings. If they're a friend of a friend, well, you just ask your friend for an introduction. I don't know how things are in the US, but it's not considered awkward at all in my country. I've had women approach me in this same way as well.
Re:Facebook Dating by buboard on Friday September 06, 2019 @05:03AM (#20894136)
This is mostly between friends-of-friends , not for randomly adding people for hookups. Typically it involves sending a friend request followed by chat
Re:Facebook Dating by thecleaner on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:56PM (#20888578)
>I meet a lot of people who protest facebook by moving to Instagram/WhatsApp

I see. So these people dont like FB the product not FB the company. That feels like a very restrained response. I protested by just moving to Signal (and never using insta) and boy does it suck if other people wont do the same.

Re:Facebook Dating by meerita on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:12PM (#20888757)
I'm sure they have enough data to support this new business. In fact, lot of people date in Facebook/Instagram. When you see in Tinder or other apps "msg me on Insta/fb" you can understand many things from their preferences: (getting followers, likes, etc).
Re:Facebook Dating by mogadsheu on Thursday September 05, 2019 @04:33PM (#20890415)
I think what they’re looking for is a way to get more consistent and precise user location data, via the Facebook app. It’s a relative missing piece in their user data suite.
Re:Facebook Dating by benguild on Friday September 06, 2019 @05:45PM (#20900211)
It makes sense. A lot of people only grant API access to dating apps and this would increase their app installs at a time of decline.
Re:Facebook Dating by creaghpatr on Thursday September 05, 2019 @11:00AM (#20887384)
They can pull the API plug on their competitors which almost always use Facebook Login?
Re:Facebook Dating by ummonk on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:09PM (#20888092)
And invite FTC scrutiny?
Re:Facebook Dating by johnestar on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:08PM (#20891100)
it may be true in united states, but in other parts of the world, facebook dating could work