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Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by spectramax on Monday February 25, 2019 @06:42PM (#19250596)
At this point, the board of directors should just demand deletion of his Twitter account.

I admire Elon for his vision, and actually also admire his radical style despite of its unpopular image - I watched the video where he smoked pot on the radio show. It was a really amazing conversation about future of humanity. He just needs to stop tweeting. You may say it’s fixing the symptom, but here if we take Twitter away, he would stop yelling stupid FCC punishable things.

As a side note, Twitter has hardly done anything useful for the society. I never got into twitter and never understood its value. Conversations are one sided, blog posts are separated into incomprehensible chain of tweets, people are insulting with no repercussion - it’s a giant echo chamber of loud people. One thing it has done is to improve customer support by shaming companies publicly, which is a really sad state of affairs.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by mLuby on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:05PM (#19250740)
Twitter's value is providing a direct connection from people of note to the masses, bypassing newspaper/TV/radio gatekeepers of yesteryear. You could argue whether that itself is good for society, but it is clear from Twitter's usage that people find it valuable.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by astrodust on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:10PM (#19251178)
I find it valuable in that you can follow reporters directly, both professional and amateur, and curate your feed very precisely, especially because a large amount of commentary comes across as Tweet-sized asides, not full articles.

As a micro-publishing platform, it's hard to beat.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by tw04 on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @12:53AM (#19252282)
> because a large amount of commentary comes across as Tweet-sized asides, not full articles.

There are very few topics that are both worthy of a news story and able to be summarized even remotely well in 140 characters. It is literally the downfall of journalism and in my opinion is a major driver in the complete lack of rational discussion in politics today.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by xkjkls on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @12:27PM (#19256355)
News stories often have little else in them other than their headline. Like, for instance, this one. 90% of the value of this is the headline itself.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by afiori on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @03:36AM (#19252828)
Except that many reporters and journalist do the same (obviously there are good ones, not claiming yours do) and they end up being in the same bubble. To this add that journalist and media are twitter lifeline, so essentially they can bully the platform as they like.

A great example was the learn to code meme.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by EGreg on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:20PM (#19251481)
Why follow reporters instead of subjects they report on, collaboratively edited by many people?
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by jesssse on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:47PM (#19251616)
Because your suggestion is theoretical while Twitter exists today.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by darkpuma on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @08:08AM (#19253921)
Uh, his suggestion is a newpaper, magazine or other forms of publications these journalists work for. Except if you subscribe to the publication instead of the journalist, you get the benefit of the publication's editors.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by chibg10 on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:26PM (#19251971)
The viewers of Fox News find it valuable as well I'm sure. That something's users find it valuable says little on its own imo.

This is a separate point, but what exactly does Twitter do to provide a direct connection to the masses that the rest of the internet doesn't? The only difference is that Twitter, through some combination of marketing, first mover advantage, addictiveness to the right audience, whatever, happened to what the developed world chose as its social media platform of choice for current events.

That's orthogonal to its actual appropriateness for being such a platform and to its utility to global/national society as a whole.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by danvayn on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:50PM (#19251075)
People definitely find it valuable but im pretty sure it isnt good for society. Influencers earn more followers for portraying psychopathic behaviors than they would for being themselves. And they definitely earn more money for themselves by portraying a lavish unrealistic lifestyle -- it only increases the quality and number of offers they get.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by spectramax on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:57PM (#19251108)
Twitter has both pros and cons but I’m convinced that it’s mostly cons.

Going off tangent again, but the same analogy goes with Facebook - it was nice to connect with people and see their updates until it became this rotten, ad driven, divisive tool. Remember FB restricted to college users back in 2005?

Maybe there is some kind of “aging” phenomenon with social networks. They all rot. MySpace, Digg, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter and coming up next - Instagram.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by EGreg on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:19PM (#19251476)
People find a lot of crazy and destructive things valuable.

I am not saying we should ban them. Just disrupt them.

Twitter is a combination of the worst things:

  Public shouting
  In very short form
  Attacks rise to the top
  No way to discuss the substance together
Each tweet is a short public shout that is an attack of something else and no way to discuss substance or solve anything.

No wonder society is overrun by outrage mobs and #hashtag movements.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:45PM (#19252042)
Musk could accomplish exactly what you’re saying on a blog (just as Bezos did on Medium recently), or through a PR release written or approved by him. There are numerous ways he could communicate more effectively to the public without mainstream media filtering. Why do we act like Twitter is the only way to do this?

Twitter only encourages misunderstanding and posts without thought. The character limit is a big driver of this.

If Musk wants to take his company private then he can do whatever he wants, but there is a different set of rules for CEOs of publicly traded companies for a reason.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by specialist on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @11:28AM (#19255658)
"Twitter only encourages misunderstanding and posts without thought."

I recently heard this described as removing context. Which made me facepalm. Obvious, right? (Sorry, I shoulda bookmarked it.)

FWIW, I think every public figure should hire someone to manage their social media presence. As in, doesn't a CEO have more important things to do?

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by blhack on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:22PM (#19250857)
There are lots of ways of accomplishing that without the things that causes twitter to be particularly toxic.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by astrodust on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:12PM (#19251183)
Twitter's toxic because they never clean the place up. It's like a hotel where they clean the rooms only when it gets so bad that the EPA or CDC issues a citation.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by rchaud on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:31PM (#19250931)
> Twitter's value is providing a direct connection from people of note to the masses, bypassing newspaper/TV/radio gatekeepers of yesteryear.

Press releases still exist. Although even then I'd wager the copy writers do a better job of legal due diligence than Musk.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by P_I_Staker on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:37PM (#19251554)
It's not the same thing, however I do think CEOs having a direct link to communicate with the public is incredibly irresponsible; unless you keep everything extremely trivial, light, and unoffensive. Otherwise everything should be vetted and / or double checked by at least one even headed, conservative person (in terms of risk, not politics), who has some understanding of PR.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by mixmastamyk on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:20PM (#19250844)
It is useful for self promoters and day traders, others not so much.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by nodesocket on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @02:50AM (#19252683)
Relevant, Jack Dorsey was on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast recently, and in the first handful of minutes he talks about Twitter and its value[1], bad behavior on Twitter, misinformation, and echo chambers.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mP9OmOFxc4

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by slouch on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:04PM (#19250736)
How about, "helped every piece of news break faster." I knew about every trade during the run up to today's 3pm NHL trade deadline many minutes and sometimes hours before the stories appeared on nhl.com or sportsnet, etc.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by joeyspn on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:18PM (#19250834)
^ This

I recently read a group of high profile journalists (mainstream media) stating that "Twitter is where we get the news from"...

Twitter has become a sort of real-time news agency. If you follow the correct profiles in your niche/sector not even Reuters can beat the speed of 95% of the events. If there's a newsworthy event, chances are it's first on twitter than in any other media outlet.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by cmroanirgo on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:47PM (#19251829)
> high profile journalists (mainstream media) stating that "Twitter is where we get the news from"...

Wow. This is unbelievably scary.

Imho news should be curated & not first to the wires. News should involve individual fact checking and less web of trust.

I understand how we consumers might want to listen to a journalist's feed, but journalists using it as a source too? It's nothing but a self referential feedback loop otherwise!

One word describes the problem: covfefe

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by sokoloff on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @11:57AM (#19256029)
Related (and I picked a tweet because that was the two highest google results for the phrase I searched):

https://twitter.com/freakonometrics/status/10205573001537044...

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by afiori on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @03:43AM (#19252861)
This is the inevitable long term consequence of click-based revenue. It does not matter if you get the story wrong, if you are the first to publish you still get the money.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by zebraflask on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @03:14PM (#19257935)
Exactly.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by gist on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:11PM (#19250789)
> I knew about every trade during the run up to today's 3pm NHL trade deadline many minutes and sometimes hours before the stories appeared on nhl.com or sportsnet, etc.

Is that just for entertainment or did you use that information in some way?

It's similar to papers or tv stations crowing how they broke a story. So what? Do I really need (or do most people) to know that there is a mass tragedy (only one example) the minute it happens? It can't wait? Not everything that happens is '911' grade information.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by praneshp on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:17PM (#19250826)
> Is that just for entertainment

"just" is just your opinion

> Do I really need (or do most people) to know

I do.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by Dylan16807 on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @01:44AM (#19252460)
> "just" is just your opinion

Reading the entire sentence makes it clear that "just" refers to whether or not they "use that information in some way", and that is not an opinion.

> I do.

You cut off "the minute it happens". It's not about whether you learn it, but how rapidly.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by hopler on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:53PM (#19251366)
If you want to make money betting on the info, you do.

Breaking a story matters if no one else was looking, but yeah not of everyone was racing.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by Grue3 on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @05:09AM (#19253172)
>helped every piece of news break faster

How is that a good thing? Without proper fact-checking it's just rumors. And there are a lot of instances of fake news spreading on Twitter before full information is available.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by halvingalg on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:07PM (#19250752)
I enjoy reading about political news immediately but often times the breaking stories are wildly incorrect/off and I would benefit from more restrained and thoughtful coverage. Taking more time to make decisions rarely leads to bad decisions...
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by privateSFacct on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:07PM (#19250762)
He doesn't need to delete it, but if he is going to post market moving information (like production for 2019 is not 400K but 500K) he'd get the approved by someone else like Tesla's GC.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by minimaxir on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:09PM (#19250775)
Incidentally Tesla's new GC has only been on the job for 5 days after the previous GC left two months into the job.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/20/tesla-replaces-general-couns...

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by femto113 on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:45PM (#19251334)
It's possible this isn't a coincidence, the tweet in question seems to have come out just before the last GC left, I wonder if it sparked a conflict.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by djakjxnanjak on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:23PM (#19250864)
It seems like Elon lacks the ability to control his behavior when he can tweet based on a momentary impulse. Elon has many bright ideas but not every notion of his is appropriate for public consumption. He ought to hand over the credentials to a PR or even a law firm so he can send all his tweets through them. And ask them to change the password.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by SimbaOnSteroids on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:32PM (#19250937)
It wouldn't be too hard to give him a twitter clone app that flows through a middleman before going live, git pull requests for twitter if you will.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by mabbo on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:09PM (#19251167)
I've been saying for years that Twitter ought to be offering that as a paid-for feature. They don't even have to charge much for it. Even something as simple as "All tweets have a 120 second delay during which time the following users will be pinged, shown the tweet, and given veto powers on it".

I'd pay for it just to have my wife be able to say "Really? You want to tweet another picture of the cat? No."

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by keerthiko on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:55PM (#19251377)
I could see from an ideological perspective Twitter's entire mission being to delete the middleman and the moderating PR managers and public statement lawyer sanitation of everything public figures ever say, which was the only way laypeople heard anything a famous person ever said (that or tabloid gossip "overheard"s). I can respect that ideology, but it of course comes with its own set of problems.

Personally I'm amused and ok with famous people facing the consequences of voicing their opinions, and also them getting roasted by normal civilians in public thanks to twitter.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by afiori on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @03:48AM (#19252886)
> which was the only way laypeople heard anything a famous person ever said (that or tabloid gossip "overheard"s).

I get that twitter main usage is this, but you can accomplish that with literally any social media/personal website.

What twitter really facilitates is seeing feeds from random people and famous people responses to other (famous or not) people.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by InitialLastName on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:08PM (#19251902)
Jack Dorsey just discussed this concept a bit in an interview on Bill Simmons' podcast. They were discussing the pitfalls of giving users (or others) the ability to edit/delete their tweets.

In discussing having a N-second window where a user can correct typos, Dorsey brought it down to a tradeoff between real-timeness and correctibility. Essentially he feels that much of Twitter's charm as a platform comes from the fact that updates feel "live", so every delay from tweet source to delivery needs to be given a heavy cost in the cost/benefit analysis.

Adding a delay like that as a feature (especially for a figure notable enough to move the stock market with a tweet) would undermine that message completely, by preventing that figure from engaging with the conversation in real time.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by hopler on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:49PM (#19251351)
3rd party apps do this.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by xur17 on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:32PM (#19251282)
At this point they should seriously do this. Build a twitter clone app for a few 100k, and then hire an around the clock crew to review tweets as they go out. It would be 100% worth it.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by Animats on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @12:16AM (#19252148)
More than that, it may be time to send him to drug rehab. We know drugs were involved in the last big screwup.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by zebraflask on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:16PM (#19250818)
On the other hand, how is that market-moving given Elon's very public history of stirring the pot? You expect this from him.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by michaelt on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:30PM (#19250927)
I think for most crimes, saying "But I have a well known history of doing this" would make prosecutors less lenient, not more.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by zebraflask on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:39PM (#19250990)
The legality is above my pay grade and will have to be deferred to the experts.

Just from an economic line of thought, even a cursory look at Tesla and Elon's history of public statements would make a reasonable investor think "Gee, the CEO talks a lot. Maybe don't read too much into it."

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by jrumbut on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:07PM (#19251154)
The entire point of this law is so you can get accurate information to decide on your investments.

Otherwise you (the investing public) are going to say "well he could have a great factory, or he could be spouting off again, guess I'll keep the money under the mattress."

It would make it very hard to raise money to do big things.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by zebraflask on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:36PM (#19251299)
Have a good point, I didn't consider it that way.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by mcguire on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:57PM (#19251106)
On the other hand, unreasonable fans will listen and will move the stock, so a reasonable investor might want to pay attention.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by detaro on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:42PM (#19251017)
No, you expect that a top representative of a publicly traded company obeys the law on official company channels. E.g. if your job is to trade on Tesla based on newly announced information, ignoring facts from such a message might very well get you in financial trouble if it turns out you shouldn't have ignored it and your clients loose money because of that.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by hopler on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:51PM (#19251361)
Channels don't matter. Lying to investors does. Private company CEOs can talk shit as long as all the investors know it's shit
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by MBCook on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @12:22PM (#19256298)
The SEC disagrees.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by matz1 on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:11PM (#19251180)
Then couldn't someone at Tesla council just say, yes we review and approved this tweet ?
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by godzillabrennus on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:03PM (#19251674)
Twitter is a giant customer service system.

It’s more effective than sitting on hold waiting for a giant company to ignore you.

One reasonable tweet about an issue and usually a customer service rep reaches out.

I tweeted about how a company saved Christmas for our family with a last minute furniture delivery. We were going to take a secondary choice on color for that item to arrive on time.

The CEO of the company got involved and we got the right color on time.

Company is LoveSac and they were great but wouldn’t have even know about the issue without Twitter.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by Marsymars on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:15PM (#19251928)
I wish companies would enable whoever is manning their public emails to fix problems as effectively as whoever is manning the twitter account.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by rchaud on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @01:12PM (#19256810)
> Twitter is a giant customer service system.

Only if there's a good PR opportunity to be had, which is exactly the case you described.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by telospolis on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:30PM (#19251515)
I got my first job from twitter. I learn from the smartest people in SV sitting 1000s of miles away. Your twitter is an echo chamber. Mine isn't.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by vinay_ys on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @01:35AM (#19252418)
So apparently, Elon's twitter account is seen as source of official news about Tesla by investors [0]. Given that, it is reasonable for SEC to take this position.

But on a bigger scheme, it is sad to see this happening while "puffery" is legal and the damage it is causing is far bigger than anything elon's tweets have caused. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0CyBv18A5k

0. This line is in the 2013 8-K filing by Tesla: "For additional information, please follow Elon Musk’s and Tesla’s Twitter accounts: twitter.com/elonmusk and twitter.com/TeslaMotors "

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @06:16PM (#19267788)
Puffery is a form of lying to consumers, Musk's problem is with laws around lying to investors.

“Capitalism” wasn't named “capitalism” by it's opponents because it protects consumers and leaves capitalists out in the cold.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by omarforgotpwd on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:40PM (#19251573)
I don't think he needs to stop tweeting. He just needs to make sure all the tweets that contain information material to Tesla are reviewed prior to publication, like he agreed to in the judgement.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by oxymoran on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:51PM (#19251078)
I would rather he just let someone else handle Tesla and focus on SpaceX, Neuralink, and whatever other private ventures. He just isn’t meant to head a public company.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by m_mueller on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:07PM (#19251689)
Isn’t one of Tesla’s problems that they don’t have an operations chief of the caliber of Shotwell? They essentially need their own Tim Cook - boring but dedicated and gets things done.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by buboard on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:35PM (#19250963)
The rules never apply equally to everyone. Tesla needs elon and elon needs twitter to hype up millions of people so he can achieve his goals. I m not a fan of the guy, but he's got the resolve to make things happen. if you take away his twitter, it will be bad for the future of tesla.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by sokoloff on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @12:01PM (#19256063)
I worry that if you don't take away his Twitter, it will also be bad for the future of Tesla.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by notacoward on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @08:21AM (#19254007)
As with most social media, what you get out of Twitter is largely a function of who you follow. Using it as a "direct connection from people of note" is using it exactly wrong IMO. That makes it just another megaphone for advertisers, politicians, and entertainers. Personally I find it much better to follow people whose ideas and perspective I already find valuable. Some I know IRL. Some I know from their work, or from blogs/forums including this one. Some I was "introduced to" by these others, in the sense of repeatedly seeing retweets or responses and finding them valuable.

I can get the news a bazillion different ways. I don't need Twitter for that. But I also enjoy seeing the reaction from the various communities of which I'm a part, from work to the ski club to the people I follow on Twitter or Facebook. Social media is much better when it's social, not broadcast.

Am I in danger of creating my own little bubble this way? Sure, as has always been the case with RL associations as well, and the remedy is the same as well - learn critical thinking, don't rely on any one of them for your information, etc. And even if each of my social-media "avatars" is in a bubble at least it's my bubble, the result of my own conscious curation and not someone else's idea of what bubble I should be stuffed into.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by Wowfunhappy on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @11:35PM (#19260897)
I used to find Twitter a really great outlet for my brain when I needed a 60 second break from a task, and no more. I kept my feed fairly sparse, and tweets were so short, so I could glance at my timeline without worrying about getting lost and losing track of time.

They have since slowly killed this value, by changing how the timeline is ordered, increased character limit, etc.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by JumpCrisscross on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:47PM (#19251828)
> the board of directors should just demand deletion of his Twitter account

That’s extreme. Just give the securities lawyer the password. Elon clearly lacks the discipline to work with pre-approval. So have him draft tweets, send them to the lawyer, and then watch them go live. He can read his feed but not write to it.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by xiphias2 on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:49PM (#19251067)
A part of the development of new Tesla car features, and the deal with Australian battery plant were happening on Twitter with his account. Closing it down would hurt Tesla. The solution is having a reviewer for each tweet, just how Elon and SEC agreed.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by roenxi on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:14PM (#19251192)
Odds are great that the battery thing on twitter was a PR stunt for public consumption, not substantive decision making. People don't negotiate infrastructure deals on twitter and email is just as good for actually doing business deals.

In the event that anything actually happened on twitter, someone was probably being negligent in terms of tendering and governance. It doesn't make sense for a few tweets to be critical, so they probably weren't.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by xiphias2 on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:31PM (#19251280)
It was PR, and maybe a stunt as well, but it worked. It put a huge social pressure on the corrupt Australian politicians who kept the electricity system in their country far behind what Australia can afford. The public actually deserves to take part in what their tax payments are used for.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by api on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:20PM (#19250843)
Twitter is where the rich and powerful go to make complete fools of themselves.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by duxup on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:02PM (#19251672)
It really only shames companies for the few customers who get attention too.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by dalbasal on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @02:23PM (#19257468)
Basically, he needs a pepper pots.

Incidentally, I think we should have referendums (local, national, scotland..) to ban leaders from twitter. Maybe Jack Dorsey could be sold on this.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by Waterluvian on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:04PM (#19250734)
...Can a corporation demand an employee waive their right to speech as a private citizen?

I think even if so, that's a terrible idea.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by c3534l on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:22PM (#19250859)
Of course they can. Not only can you just fire your CEO if he says something racist, sexist, or generally embarrassing, but there are non-disclosure agreements (you promise not to tell anyone what happens in the last episode of Game of Thrones), non-disparagement agreements, codes of conduct that entail things you can say. Conan O'Brien had to agree not to appear on television, and not to say anything negative about NBC as part of his leaving the Tonight Show. Nike can tell its employees they're not allowed to wear Puma clothing.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by gamblor956 on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:38PM (#19250984)
Can a corporation demand an employee waive their right to speech as a private citizen?

Said citizen and his company avoided prison time and massive fines respectively by agreeing to said restrictions as the result of earlier fraudulent misrepresentations on a private account he demanded the corporation register as an official public account for regulatory purposes.

So...yes. Definitely they can enforce an agreement he voluntarily entered into for a medium he deliberately turned into a regulated source.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by katabatic on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:10PM (#19250780)
This is true for every employee of every public company on the planet. We're discussing it here because Mr. Musk thinks the rules don't apply to him.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by chx on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:37PM (#19250980)
Public? Every company in existence makes you sign a contract that you won't disclose sensitive company information, public or not.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by mlindner on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:12PM (#19250792)
Sorry that's simply false. You have all your freedoms. You can get fired for exercising them but that doesn't mean you don't have them. If the shareholders wanted to fire Elon Musk they would, but they aren't so the SEC should butt out of the issue.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by elliekelly on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @12:02PM (#19256083)
_Every_ CEO of _every_ publicly traded company has _every_ company-related tweet vetted by a company lawyer. What the SEC is asking of Musk here is simply that he follow the industry-standard.

Let's not forget Musk owes a fiduciary duty to Tesla shareholders and his tweets have repeatedly lost shareholders money and induced people to purchase shares on false/misleading information. That's securities fraud.

Source: Corporate & Securities Attorney. I was once the approver of many such tweets. Though thankfully the people I worked with were exceedingly reasonable in comparison to Musk.

Edit: Missed a word.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by empath75 on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:28PM (#19250904)
You can’t lie about your company as a ceo. That’s securities fraud.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by jonathankoren on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:37PM (#19250973)
Elon effectively has controlling interest due to his supervotes. Sure, 89.5% of the outside votes can out vote him, but that’s an absurdly high bar. [0]

Also, the SEC is a regulator for a reason. Saying the company is cool with it (even when it’s really unclear if that’s actually true give the voting setup) is completely irrelevant to if the behavior is acceptable to society. After all, grifters are totally fine with gritting when they’re the ones doing it, but that doesn’t mean grifting a societal benefit.

[0] https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/how-elon-musk-con...

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by grigjd3 on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:09PM (#19250774)
I mean, I'm fairly certain that if I started publicly bad-mouthing my company and they noticed, I'd be canned.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by mlindner on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:11PM (#19250785)
Canned by the company yes, not canned by the government.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by grigjd3 on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:17PM (#19250825)
Government isn't canning Musk. They're fining him for releasing material misinformation about his company. This has been well established in the law.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by eduah on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:28PM (#19250908)
Not misinformation, guidance was 350 - 500. This is a technicality of not getting approval for a tweet that could be interpreted as saying they are definitely hitting 500k 8 months from now. This is stupid.

https://twitter.com/_jameshatfield_/status/11001772987230945...

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by kelnos on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:44PM (#19251028)
If he didn't want to be bound by the requirement to have all his tweets go through a legal review, then he shouldn't have agreed to a settlement with the SEC that required him to do so. It's really that simple. Doesn't matter if it's stupid or not; he signed a legally-binding court document agreeing he'd do it.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by elliekelly on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @12:07PM (#19256134)
> If he didn't want to be bound by the requirement to have all his tweets go through a legal review, then he shouldn't have agreed to a settlement with the SEC that required him to do so.

A lot of people don't realize this is industry-standard. Any reasonable CEO wants to make sure they aren't inadvertently committing securities fraud with the send of a tweet.

Tweets being reviewed by the legal department are par for the course at any publicly-traded company.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by gamblor956 on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:41PM (#19251011)
In the time between Elon's two tweets, enough trades could have occurred based on the misrepresentation that investors were financially harmed.

The point of the SEC is to prevent harms like that. The point of the SEC's 2018 settlement with Elon was to prevent him from investor-harming tweets like the one he made by requiring tweets about Tesla to be reviewed for accuracy and correctness before posting.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by Dylan16807 on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:02PM (#19251400)
> In the time between Elon's two tweets, enough trades could have occurred based on the misrepresentation that investors were financially harmed.

Does it matter that it was outside of trading hours?

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by morpheuskafka on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:48PM (#19251619)
After hours trading is a thing, money can still be made or lost outside of trading hours.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by c3534l on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:23PM (#19250866)
The parent comment says "Can a corporation demand an employee ..." so that's exactly what we're talking about. The company, not the government.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by detaro on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:16PM (#19250819)
GP clearly asked about a company.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by chx on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:24PM (#19251763)
This is a common misunderstanding, let's recap the first amendment:

> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,

A civil contract between a company and individual does not fall under this at all. They could add anything to that contract and it is up to you whether you sign it. If a company demands you to walk to the office like someone out of Monthy Python's Ministry Of Silly Walks, they sure can. It's up to you whether you accept it. There are some explicit limitations to this (class discrimination, whistleblower protections etc) but beyond that, it's a free country.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by morpheuskafka on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:44PM (#19251599)
1) Yes, unless it somehow implements protected class discrimination, whistle blower retaliation, etc. And you waive this every time you sign an NDA, discuss company internal info, read one of those "this email is intended only for its intended recipient" emails, contribute to FOSS with a Code of Conduct, etc.

2) I don't see how it's a terrible. Musk is breaking federal laws as CEO and putting the whole company in jeopardy. It's no different than a rogue firstline worker speeding down the road drunk in a company vehicle.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by fhbdukfrh on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:21PM (#19250853)
When he speaks with insider information from the company to an audience that will influence his personal position in said organization, he's not a private citizen.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by javagram on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:06PM (#19250750)
Of course they can (and often do).
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by CydeWeys on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:14PM (#19250813)
Of course not. But they can remove him if he uses his right to free speech to say stupid shit that gets the company in legal trouble.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by P_I_Staker on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:40PM (#19251576)
Yes. You can get fired for the things you say off the clock, especially publicly. I don't love it, but what do you expect the company to do if an employee gets outed as a psychopathic troll?
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by morpheuskafka on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:46PM (#19251609)
Musk is salaried. There is no "off the clock," and that's inapplicable because he isn't being asked to do work or constrain his personal life. He can call people pedos and all that all he wants as far as the board is concerned. He just can't commit federal crimes in such a way that the company is liable, by voluntarily making false material statements about it.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by cm2187 on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:12PM (#19250791)
It can even fire them for expressing a political opinion. Particularly if there is a twitter mob involved.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by fredgrott on Thursday February 28, 2019 @08:17AM (#19271103)
lack of impulse control has no relationship to having a twitter account..board needs to do its financial duty and remove him
[dead]
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by spectramax on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:52PM (#19251084)
You’re right - SEC I meant, not FCC.

I’m just speaking my mind, new to this site. Sorry to have disappointed you.

Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by halvingalg on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:05PM (#19250743)
Twitter is decidedly on-topic since it is Elon's misbehavior on twitter that got him into this whole mess.
Re:SEC Asks Manhattan Federal Court to Hold Elon Musk in Con... by CalChris on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:13PM (#19250801)
Twitter has hardly done anything useful for the society. Yes, but Facebook has done even less.