News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by CodeSheikh on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:00PM (#10388630)
I would take Uber over rude Manhattan cabbies any day. My personal experience with Manhattan taxi drivers after living in NYC for last two years.

1) They drive as if they are on a rally track. I have had never experienced motion sickness before until I moved to Manhattan.

2) If you ignore the tip or tip them in the range of $1-3 you get snarky remarks from them.

3) If you try to hail a cab and (regrettably) ask the taxi driver to drive you to a place where their chances of hailing a passenger back are slim then they will rudely turn you away (Tip: First hop in then tell the direction. It is a NYC law).

I can go on and on but point being Uber is the much needed necessary evil in scarce resource cities like Manhattan.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by brianwawok on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:20PM (#10388747)
Here is the problem

1) Uber comes in pays well - sources on the net for hip drivers - You get awesome English speaking nice drivers

2) Uber starts to drop rates

3) Good Uber drivers quit for lack of pay, existing cabbies start to drive for Uber

4) You end up getting the same cabbies as before Uber, but with surge pricing.

It takes a while, but eventually it ends back up in the same exact place as before :( Totally happened in Chicago in front of my eyes.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by bko on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:28PM (#10388812)
I don't think cabbies are rude because they are not paid well. I think they're rude because they aren't held accountable for their rudeness and before Uber, there was no meaningful competition. If an Uber driver is rude and got a negative review, in the current system, he would probably be let go rather promptly. It could be that Uber will have to lower the minimum acceptable rating in order to keep enough drivers, but with a system of accountability (rating system) rudeness will be discouraged.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by Disruptive_Dave on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:45PM (#10388932)
This. As an NYC resident, this and this. Even beyond the review/star system, from what I understand Uber sets expectations of cleanliness and friendliness and general professionalism. I don't think the taxi industry ever started with these base expectations. It's a good start.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by foobarian on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:41PM (#10390579)
You know, I don't even care if they are rude. The UX is sooo much better that it's laughable:

1) No communication problems telling the driver where you are going. If you or they don't speak English, that's fine

2) No tipping.

3) No cash/form of payment shenanigans

4) ETA and location information in near real-time

5) No hailing--great if you are an introverted person/don't know how to whistle like a truck driver/etc.

Honestly, if the taxi industry adopted that dispatch system I would have no problem using it. Uber should do enterprise licensing for "Uber For Cities" so they can finally run their taxicab operations properly.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by dominotw on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:34PM (#10388857)
> I think they're rude because they aren't held accountable for their rudeness

In chicago you can call 311 but you have to register a case and show up in the court on the hearing date.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by jchendy on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @05:51PM (#10389788)
Chicago has a rudeness court?
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by TDL on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:30PM (#10390272)
You have to fill out an affidavit after making a complaint with the Department of Business Affairs and Consumer Protection in Chicago.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by bunderbunder on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:04PM (#10390425)
There are a lot of rules of conduct cab drivers are required by law to follow in Chicago. Stuff like, they can't harass you for cash if you want to pay with a credit card.

You can't really complain about general rudeness, but most usually the really rude behavior breaks at least a couple rules.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by mbca on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:48PM (#10388950)
The quality of Uber drivers in San Francisco has dropped all the way to the point where I simply will not try to use Uber anywhere near downtown. They will accept the ride and the app will show they are "1 minute" away, however it will often take upwards of 15 minutes for them to reach me because they don't know their way around the city and are confused by all the one-way streets in downtown. I promise I"m not exaggerating, it really does take that long. I've stood there and watched them on the map spending 10-15 minutes driving very long distances away from me before finally turning in the right direction and painfully, slowly, starting to get closer. It's ridiculous.

If I'm in downtown or SOMA, I will use a taxi (either hailing or using Flywheel). It's usually a huge time saver (and there's no "surge" pricing either).

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by goondabba on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:15PM (#10389920)
That's more the Uber app's fault than the driver's. I've chatted with drivers about this; the app doesn't actually tell you where the pickup is, it just starts the navigation. It seems to be a security measure.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by billmalarky on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:26PM (#10389970)
Probably so people can't poach uber riders with a competing service. You could easily accept riders, relay their location to your services drivers, then cancel the pickup in the Uber app right as your driver shows up.

Sounds like something Uber themselves would do come to think of it.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by jzwinck on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:18PM (#10390217)
This might explain why the only time I used Uber the driver did not understand where to find me. I was outside near a fence opposite the expressway. He was told by the app to stop on the expressway and pick me up. This despite my entering the street address when booking. It wasted one person hour of time. The driver told me he can't make more than minimum wage with Uber, he just does it as a hobby.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by faet on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:13PM (#10390469)
Some drivers near me will mark the trip 'complete' before dropping off their current passenger. This way they're already in the queue for the next passenger. Then it may take them 5-15min to finish dropping someone off then getting over to you.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by davnicwil on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @11:36PM (#10391187)
I've had exactly the same experience in Bogota, Colombia.

There was a precise cliff-edge over which service levels dropped dramatically, and it came a few months ago when the lowest priced tier, which had nice, big modern cars with really professional drivers who knew the city, was replaced with a tier branded as 'uberX'.

The uberX experience, while still certainly usable, is a very obvious step down from the previous standard. To sum it up, it basically feels less like you're getting an on-demand professional driver/ taxi, and a lot more like you're just flagging a lift from some guy with a car.

The cars themselves are a big step down - much older, smaller, worn out interiors, sometimes even without seatbelts. On numerous occasions the drivers have been far from the professional driver standard. In general they get the job done but they sometimes don't know the roads very well, and I've run the full spectrum of issues like them taking forever to get to the pickup point, often driving past it and circling back round a one-way system etc, having to take ridiculous detours en route because they miss a turn, going via obviously gridlocked routes, asking me for directions along the way to the destination. All of the things you just don't expect to happen with a driver service but you might expect to happen if you asked a friend for a lift. It's not a guaranteed slick service like it previously was, at all.

I'm not sure what happened here but this, along with the Android app being fairly buggy and seeming to get worse over time (takes minutes to lock GPS coordinates, really kills my battery, sometimes completely freezes when you're tracking them coming to pick you up, gives you a locking error message when you've lost your data connection so you can't even see the map, or the license plate of the car, any more) has really downgraded my impression of uber from something which was all-round vastly better than taxis, to a something which is basically on the same level and that I'll just use when it's not that convenient to hail a taxi on the street. And I'm no big fan of taxis.

It's a shame, I used to rave about uber to anyone who'd listen, but if the level of service for the same cost continues to slide like this here and in other cities then I could see myself looking for and switching to competitors much more often where previously I had no real need or desire to.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by beambot on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:14PM (#10389126)
Sounds like an opportunity for Uber to improve their software to include GPS navigation for fare pickup.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by finnh on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:33PM (#10389269)
No joke. When my brother uses Uber on the south end of Mercer Island, it regularly shows the "closest" car as being in Seward Park - about 1/2 mile away across a lake. The bridge of course is far north, and pretty much every Uber in Seattle's downtown or centrally-located neighborhoods is significantly closer than the one Uber picks.

Seems like they are simply using as-the-crow-flies distance, which is kinda crazy.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by xenihn on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @05:39PM (#10389732)
They are, you can easily verify by estimating pickup times to a destination a mile out into the Pacific or Atlantic :)
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by AJ007 on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:08PM (#10389079)
As other commenters mentioned, the quality of Uber definitely has decreased. Worse than what you are saying, not only do you have mediocre cab drivers but also people that basically don't know what they are doing. UberX is the worst offender here and UberBlack generally has provided good service. If the only option is UberX I will probably take a cab instead.

Based on what Uber is spending on acquiring new drivers I would assume they have eased up on threshold for booting poorly rated drivers. Based on the recent revelation that the map view of nearby cars is now simulated I would assume that the published reviews should no longer be taken at face value either.

At the beginning the pitch went something like Uber would win because it had so much data that it would be able to route drivers much more efficiently than any new competitor. The pick up times rather have gone the other direction over the year. If anything, there are far more opportunities for vehicle transport services now.

I wondered, what if the future Uber, rather than offering the awesome service it had in the beginning, ended up being just as mediocre as what we had before -- cabs, buses, towncars you booked a day before -- but just in different ways?

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by arasmussen on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:29PM (#10388820)
But drivers must maintain a 4.5 star rating, which means the cabbies would at least have to fix their behavior or suffer the consequences. There are no consequences for bad taxi drivers.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by itsybitsycoder on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:09PM (#10389882)
That's the current policy with the current rates. If they cut the rates too much, they may have to choose between changing the policy or having no Uber drivers.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by StriverGuy on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:52PM (#10388975)
You obviously arent aware of how the Uber app works. If a driver receives only 1 or 2 severely low ratings, they are contacted by their managing office. After warnings they will eventually be fired.

Uber adds a level of accountability that NYC cabs do not have.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by thoughtpalette on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:29PM (#10389238)
Per my driver last night, if you do get dropped from Uber because of poor ratings (minus 4.7 I believe), you just pay $60 to go to a Driver Enlightenment class to get reinstated in Uber.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by GauntletWizard on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:12PM (#10390189)
Okay. $60, being out two days of driving... how many cabbies can afford to do that on a regular basis? $60 might not sound like much to me or you, but it's probably a third of a cabbie's daily take.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by thoughtpalette on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:57AM (#10393883)
I'm not saying it's cheap, just stating what I learned about being dropped from Uber as a driver.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by brianwawok on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:59PM (#10389018)
So the yellow cab cabbies I see running Lyft + Uber while being horrible drivers must be the exception, right?

I feel like cabbie turnover is so high, if 1000 join Uber.. 200 get canned so switch to Lyft... 200 more cabbies will just join Uber the next month.

A rating system is good over the long term, but if people have an average life in a market of a few months - it doesn't do a bunch.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by runamok on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:27PM (#10388805)
At least there is a feedback mechanism in place? That and cabs that will not pick up in certain areas or certain times are the biggest problem with taxis I have experienced.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by jaredhansen on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:59PM (#10389013)
Re #4: really? How long do drivers with <4 stars last on the platform? (If [1] is correct, they don't last at all, because they get booted below 4.5).

All else equal (and many say all else isn't equal here of course, though that argument cuts both ways), a system with SOME accountability is better than a system with none.

[1] http://uber-partners-static.s3.amazonaws.com/chicago_uberx/f...

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by largote on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:15PM (#10390475)
I find it ridiculous that a 5 star rating is expected for an OK (average) ride. 5-stars should be reserved for exceptional rides.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by Gustomaximus on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:43PM (#10390587)
I agree from a 'correct' sense. It would be interesting to see a graph of what people rate.

Personally I give a 5 star as default unless they are sub-service given I know they face being cut if below ~4.5. So for me it almost works as a negative only scale with no positive points for exceptional service.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by wingerlang on Thursday October 15, 2015 @02:05AM (#10391600)
I think this was the reason YouTube dropped the 5-star rating, people just put 5 or 1. So now they have only like/dislike.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by GauntletWizard on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:09PM (#10389885)
And then some newcomer comes in and disrupts Uber, and the cycle repeats. Except, this time, there's an opportunity for there to be change, and riders will briefly have gotten a better experience than before.

It's not necessarily a bad thing for business models to be cyclical. Even when it results in a downwards spiral, it usually allows the problem space to be explored, and that spiral can be disrupted upwards... at the cost of temporary lack of quality.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by cenal on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:18PM (#10390487)
Step 1.5) Uber implements a fleet of autonomous vehicles to replace the need for drivers.

Steps 3 and 4 are no longer relevant.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by dizzyviolet on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @09:12PM (#10390711)
Exactly. Uber has a whole bunch of people literally climbing over each over to put themselves out of business.

I'm not sure what the solution is with this whole mess though.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by cm2012 on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:25PM (#10388792)
But currently Uber is cheaper than cabbies anyway. You're saying Uber will drop rates even lower?
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by brianwawok on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:28PM (#10388819)
Not rate to customer. Rate to drivers - which makes the good drivers leave.

In a new market Uber will pay something like 95-110% of fares taken in to drivers (not exact numbers, would need to look). Over the long run I think it drops to 60-70%, or something significantly worse (as clearly paying drivers 110% of income is not sustainable).

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by dotBen on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @05:11PM (#10389559)
Not true. Uber sets a commission (differs across different markets) with a new driver and that's what they get from the miles + time portion of the fare.

If Uber decides to change the commission it almost always grandfathers existing drivers to what they had when they joined.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by jessaustin on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @10:13PM (#10390917)
Surely there is enough driver turnover that this is a distinction without a difference.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by billmalarky on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:33PM (#10389996)
Well sure, they don't have a monopoly _yet_.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by dopamean on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:28PM (#10388814)
I have never taken an Uber in NYC that was cheaper than the equivalent cab ride. Somehow it always manages to work out to more.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by devindotcom on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:45PM (#10390040)
you also pay less when you don't tip - there's none included in the uber fee.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by Gustomaximus on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:30PM (#10390268)
Here is the solution;

1) Uber comes in pays well - sources on the net for hip drivers - You get awesome English speaking nice drivers

2) Uber starts to drop rates

3) Good Uber drivers quit for lack of pay, existing cabbies start to drive for Uber

4) Alternate company, takes lower margin, pays drivers well and offer better customer experience.

5) Uber hold some inertia in via brand name while the majority of the market recognises new services is better and uploads new app on their phone over the course of a year or 2.

This is the beauty of the Uber model. Its relatively easy for new entrants to enter. There's no medallion system holding out innovation. The day Uber mucks around their customers/drivers significantly I'll delete their app. I already use an alternate one occasionally for comparison and cause I like to see competition in the market.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by mattkopecki on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:40PM (#10390327)
> 4) Alternate company, takes lower margin, pays drivers well and offer better customer experience.

It doesn't seem to me that your crucial step will work. Uber is worth >$50bn, but more importantly has a substantial amount of cash on hand. I can't imagine anyone could out last them in a price war.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by Gustomaximus on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:38PM (#10390563)
Certainly Uber are becoming an increasingly formidable competitor in this space for alternatives. And money helps ALOT. But Uber started out as nothing against an industry worth more than 50bn.. They won on 1) price, 2) convenience and 3) customer service.

Give that response was largely about someone saying when Uber has lost their customer service quality, that would be a large switching point alone. I went to Uber more for service and convenience. Price was a bonus.

And they will be limited on price wars. If someone comes in at slim margin, paying more to drivers, Uber can hardly go negative in pricing. Firstly they have investors to appease. And in many countries they would be charged with predatory pricing and be in a heap of trouble. They might knock out a few competitors this way but eventually anyone competing would have massive regulatory protection in this area.

Convenience is another protective moat. Simply having cars available. But its easy for a car to run 2 versions at once if they feel the demand is there, even if Uber demand exclusive service (again possibly causing regulatory issues), policing it would be nightmare when one can simply have a second phone in the car. And pushing for exclusive would likely shoot themselves in the foot if there is increasing demand from the market elsewhere as some drivers will be forced to jump ship hurting their own service.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by marcosdumay on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:36PM (#10388875)
Ok, that may happen. But with Uber-like services some group can decide to differentiate by offering better service at higher prices, while others may focus only on price.

Taxis do not compete in any meaningful way.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by rezistik on Thursday October 15, 2015 @02:08AM (#10391611)
4.5) Quality drivers move to other service. 5) You use Lyft or any other competitor.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by MBlume on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @09:12PM (#10390713)
If we get no change except surge pricing, that's at least some improvement
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by dominotw on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:32PM (#10388851)
In Chicago

4. They pretend that ccard machines are not working. Demand cash.

5. Cars are so old that someone of them have no Air conditioning.

6. Drivers often have BO and are often chewing gutka(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutka)

7. Rude. This needs to be said again.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by pavel_lishin on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:42PM (#10388911)
In New York, I believe that if a card reader is broken, a taxi driver has to inform you of this before you get in the car.

I mean, it's obviously a scam, so most of the time they don't, and they're not actually broken, but at least there's something you can yell back at him when you arrive and he demands cash.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by emidln on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:50PM (#10388965)
Number 4 results in free rides if they tell you after the fact. It's law in Chicago that they must accept credit cards.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by stevenmays on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:09PM (#10388678)
Also, some percentage of taxi drivers are racist. I've had tremendous difficulties hailing a cab, Uber removes this (and having to think about it).
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by brianwawok on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:35PM (#10388866)
Can they see your name or profile picture when you hail? Or just your rating? I fear that racism tends to overcome technology ;(
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by andrewpi on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:52PM (#10388974)
No, they don't see that until they accept the hail.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by brianwawok on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:57PM (#10389002)
Awesome. And they can cancel after accepting, but only so many times I think? So that helps a bit!
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by odonnellryan on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:26PM (#10388802)
This is very illegal, and you can report the taxi's that pass you.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by prostoalex on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:44PM (#10388922)
With no way to document the pickup request, can't the driver just claim he "didn't see" the raised hand?
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by rokhayakebe on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @05:55PM (#10389812)
I guess you cannot claim to have not seen 15 people of the same color/race over the past 10 days.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by jvm on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:52PM (#10390070)
Problem solved! </sarcasm>
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by SilasX on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:47PM (#10390359)
Normally I'd consider your comment unhelpful and downvote it.

But discussions like this are loaded with people who assure us that certain ultra-common behavior "is illegal", as if that somehow settles it, so I'm going to tolerate otherwise content-free reminders that this is not true.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by jvm on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @08:30PM (#10390538)
Yup, I feel pretty strongly about the point I was making and, to be honest, I think it did have content despite my sardonic delivery.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by odonnellryan on Wednesday October 28, 2015 @07:53AM (#10463873)
I replied above to this. I don't disagree with you, but I think the sentiment is misplaced.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by odonnellryan on Wednesday October 28, 2015 @07:53AM (#10463867)
Well, you should still report them.

I see what you're saying. There are two fallacies at play:

1) same logic that people use to reason out of voting (it doesn't matter if I do x because it hasn't mattered before). 2) the logic that because it's illegal means it isn't permitted (which is, as you stated, not always true).

I'm not sure if it truly matters if people report taxis. What I am sure about is it will never matter if no one cares to report them to begin with. This works for any system.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by SilasX on Wednesday October 28, 2015 @07:43PM (#10468232)
I think I (and those who agreed with me) failed to convey the subtext of our objection, which is:

We don't care about illegality per se. We care about "not making the bad thing happen". If illegality accomplishes that, great! But if it doesn't, then it is non-responsive to our concerns to remind us that it does. It's like if you're going to friends talking about problems you encounter, and all they ever tell you is, "Well that's not supposed to happen".

The process of enforcing the illegality puts a lot of burden on the customer, and your response recognizes that it requires people going far out of their way.

In practice, a system that requires most individuals to make heroic sacrifices is the same as a system that just doesn't work.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by srj on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @06:30PM (#10389987)
I would think this is a one person's word against another's type scenario. I mean I have had cabs nearly run me over and didn't bother reporting because I have no idea how I'd prove it, and it's usually difficult to see the cab number as they drive off.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by odonnellryan on Wednesday October 28, 2015 @07:54AM (#10463876)
The number is a problem for sure.

But you should still report it. It is the volume of reports that are considered. Plus, you're calling a facility run by the city, not calling the taxi company.

[deleted]
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by smackfu on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:16PM (#10388728)
If you are a person-of-color, and the taxi picks you up, that driver isn't one of the racist ones.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by codyb on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:56PM (#10388990)
Why would you ignore the tip? Points one and three are valid, and you should always hop in before you direct, but ignoring the tip on what is essentially a luxury good (metro is $2.75 a ride and you can transfer as many times as you need to get where you need to go) is quite rude when it's expected and part of the culture.

If you can't afford to tip your taxi driver, take the train. Sorry.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by dreaminvm on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:29PM (#10389240)
A tip is additional compensation for great service solely at the discretion of the passenger.

If cab drivers expect a tip regardless of service quality, then the tip might as well be added to the cab rate.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:04PM (#10390143)
> If cab drivers expect a tip regardless of service quality, then the tip might as well be added to the cab rate.

Yeah, it should be, shouldn't it? But it isn't. The system is fucked, of course, but it's fucked in a very deliberate way where "protesting" by not tipping hurts the cabbie significantly, and the people responsible for the system not at all.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by SilasX on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @05:29PM (#10389687)
It should be like that, but it isn't. Mostly because, on those few cash fares, they would prefer not to report the income.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by motxilo on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:17PM (#10389152)
I guess not tipping enough is linked to its previous point around rudeness. This happens to me in the city. They are usually rude, and when I tip them %10 or less, their rudeness becomes even more apparent. Meh.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by asavadatti on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:09PM (#10389082)
That is no justification for the driver to be rude or snarky.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by codyb on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:19PM (#10389168)
Hmm, I'm not sure if I agree.

In certain Asian households it is expected that you take your shoes off, if you know this, and still stomp around the household in your shoes, would you say there was no justification for the owner of the household to be rude or snarky?

You might be able to argue that the enlightened person might say "I don't know what has happened to this person today, or why they're doing this, and I will try to find out their story before assuming they're just being an uncultured ass", but there is certainly justification, especially when it comes to the fact that these people are earning their livelihoods in this way and the tips are an essential part of that.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by SilasX on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @05:42PM (#10389747)
Well, if you really want to carry the analogy over, you have to tweak the scenario: imagine that it's really hard to know if you should take off your shoes in any particular Asian's house, and you get multiple conflicting standards depending on who you ask, but they mostly agree that if the host owes you money, the convention is not to take off your shoes.

In that case, the host should at least consider the possibility that they forgot about money they owe you, or that this was an ambiguous case, before concluding that you're committing a faux pas.

The analogy is that tipping is supposed to be "optional" in some sense, and there's tremendous disagreement about what is appropriate in what context, and that "if you felt this person didn't provide you with great service, you can reduce or withhold the tip".

Thus, if you tip too little, the driver should consider it to be possible feedback about underperformance.

Of course, they way it really works is that they expect you to give 20% irrespective of service, but want to maintain a pretense that it's "for service", enforced by rudeness-with-impunity.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by Mikeb85 on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:29PM (#10389248)
> In certain Asian households it is expected that you take your shoes off

As well as all of Canada (when we have a house party, there can be a pile of 30+ shoes at the front door, and someone inevitably loses one or both shoes), and most other countries...

Shoes in the house is the strangest part of the US to me.

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by cm2012 on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:22PM (#10388767)
Not to mention - in my experience, hailing a cab is stressful since you're not sure when one will come by. Uber is not.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by hackuser on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:40PM (#10390322)
I've taken many NYC taxis and rarely experience problems.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by ChrisLTD on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:43PM (#10388921)
I've encountered a few rude cabbies in my last three years here, but the majority have been nice. However, I agree 100% that they tend to drive like maniacs.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by odonnellryan on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:26PM (#10388800)
3 is illegal. You can report the taxi for not picking you up for any reason if their on-duty light is on.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by bko on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @03:30PM (#10388830)
I doubt many people actually go to the effort of reporting these taxis. Just ask minorities in outer boroughs who have been complaining about this for decades.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by odonnellryan on Wednesday October 28, 2015 @07:57AM (#10463893)
I understand. I'm not trying to misplace blame, but if they aren't reporting it to officials, how can they expect something to be done?

Stories of not getting picked up and rumors of complaints are not the same as "Taxi number ZX123 did not pick me up, though they were on duty and looked directly at me hailing him".

There is no proof of the incident, but at least there is the official record. It gets logged, it's a statistic, and it's something officials in the city can state: "we've had X number of complaints this year about taxis. This is up twice from last year."

Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by josu on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @07:38PM (#10390316)
So is 1, but it doesn't seem to matter.
Re:Uber Is Taking Millions of Manhattan Rides Away from Taxis by vtlynch on Wednesday October 14, 2015 @04:13PM (#10389118)
Once Uber drivers have been doing it for 15 years like cabbies have they will be just as rude