They did a lot of background work getting the OS and UIKit and developers up to speed for supporting multiple device sizes - necessary for introducing bigger screens - and I would suggest that played a large part in making the 6 successful. People weren't getting a crappy scaled experience from the apps they already knew.

This is mostly a tongue-in-cheek comment, but the broader point is that of course Apple has "innovated" since the original iPhone, iPad, iWhatever. In some big ways, and in some small ways. But so have other players in the industry. Apple has borrowed some good ideas from them, just as they have borrowed good ideas from Apple.

However saying Apple hasn't innovated since those original announcements is so hilariously ludicrous.

http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-mate-s-force-touch-ha...

It's okay to live inside a ecosystem, but don't pretend to know what happens outside it.

Force touch on Android will never get anywhere until it's specifically supported by Google (who unless I'm mistaken, haven't included it in M), and the install rate is high enough to make it worthwhile. I'm sure more OEMs will include it, but individually they won't have the clout to make it go anywhere.

It's a bit like the argument around NFC. My Nexus 6 has it, but until M is released with Google Pay, it's pretty much useless. Apple waited until they had a compelling use-case, and only then included it. I would not be surprised if the use of NFC is far higher on iOS than Android.

I can use Google Pay in the future with my over 2 years old device. Apple users have to buy a new iPhone for that.

Basically, they saw the Apple Watch, and kinda cribbed together a rough copy of it, and jammed it into a phone.

Shocking, I know, as Android OEM hardware hacks are always done as cohesive, full-thought implementations.

I didn't know IFA 2015 was few months ago.

Preference or bias? No random person commenting on Hacker News is obligated to be unbiased. We're allowed to have preferences still right? My preferences might be different depending on different contexts. I rarely order cocktail sauce to put on my chocolate ice cream but I also rarely order whip cream to put on my shrimp. That doesn't make me bias against cocktail sauce or whip cream.

Hasn't every iPhone been the most successful iPhone ever?

On the other hand, a Surface Pro is truly a replacement for a laptop as it features a full blown Windows 8 (or 10, now).

Theres also lots of artists who have reviewed the surface pro line favorably. Notably penny arcade's Mike K, and MTG's Noah Bradley.

When designers/visual artists are going to look at the market they are going to see surface pro, not iPad pro.

To top it off - The pro is also relatively closer to the cintiq ideal. Couple that with the iPad pro's price point?

How will you justify getting an iPad pro? The parallax, accuracy and hands on reviews aren't out yet.

I don't see who in the digital design world would buy this, or why.

Compressing multiple files - this has actually been possible since iOS 8: http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/winzipr-for-ios-now...

In fact, a 'sales guy' or a banker could have shared a similar opinion.

You don't need to be 'highly technical' to be pragmatic and critical.

". No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame. "

response.

http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ip...

For a device at that size, weight, and cost you would be better served buying a Macbook Air.

Apple has dozens of devices for dozens of use cases and types of buyers. I would never use the new MacBook (not good enough specs), and most of HN thinks it's a terrible idea. But my wife loves it. She doesn't need to run a virtual machine or plug in i/o devices or use 16GB of RAM, and it helps her do what she does better than ever.

If you look at Apple keynotes through the lens of, "Will this product change my life?" you'll likely be frequently disappointed - they're building products for a wide spectrum of users. But every now and then, they'll likely absolutely nail what you need.

If you buy a Macbook Pro when you need a laptop, it doesn't matter if the Macbook Air isn't for you. Apple still wins.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10184510

We have lives outside of work that also helps informs our opinions on these things.

You would, provided that MacBook Air had convertible screen (like Lenovo Yoga)

Obviously the same use cases for both products!

The tablet form factor (with a larger screen) does offer a compelling use case for drawing and other art, but in general the tools available are inferior to software available for Mac OSX and Windows. This is where the Surface makes a lot of sense since I can draw/design on the go while having access to best in class software.

I'm not a Windows user, but it is for this very reason that I keep thinking of buying a Surface; it's gotten some great reviews from other artists/designers.

I also find it discouraging that Apple has introduced their "revolutionary" new Pencil at a $100 price point, but I can't find specs anywhere, and I know I can buy the Wacom Creative Stylus 2 for less money and it has 2048 pressure level sensitivity. Without published specifications it leaves me wondering if the Apple Pencil is less product for more money.

I currently use an ipad 4, with its 10" screen, as a second screen for my mpb retina 13. I like this setup because it's thin and relatively light so slots easily into my bag along with my macbook, and doesn't require a power socket to run, just USB. I also use the ipad for reading and a few other tasks so carrying it around has intrinsic value in addition to being a second screen.

The ipad 4 does a reasonable job, but it's a bit on the small side. This new pro form factor is, however, perfect - 12.9" and higher res than my mbp retina screen means it really can be a true second screen, with roughly identical capabilities to my main screen. I'm pretty happy about this.

Won't be upgrading just yet on account of the price, but when it drops enough, replacing my current ipad with this will be a no-brainer.

It's a little quirky - the most annoying bugs are unpredictable disconnections and occasionally screen freezes, this seems to happen mostly when my macbook locks and reopens. But these things don't happen regularly enough that it causes a major problem for me. It's a bit annoying but I can deal with it.

One thing to note for anyone considering it - it performs really well at displaying text. Things like tailing logs, or displaying docs. However, anything involving typing and using the mouse is a bit painful compared to your main screen because the lag can be tedious and uncomfortable for fast interactions. In addition, I keep the refresh rate at 30Hz when on battery to save power, which compounds this issue.

So, if a big ipad like this is a "pro" device, where does a fully functional computing device, running UNIX, that you interact with on the command line fit in ?

I'm speaking of (for instance) my mac pro running OSX.

If what we see today is for "pros", then two questions come to mind:

1. What am I ? A wizard ? A demi-god ? A great elder ?

2. Can I reasonably expect Apple to make products for wizards ? Is there any money in that ?

And it does have some of that functionality, from a large screen, type cover keyboard, stylus to multi-tasking. That's not 'pro' in all industries (e.g. in software it's not), but if you're in marketing or say one-on-one tutoring or sales, I can imagine there are professional use cases reasonably enough to call it 'pro'.

Either way I'm not really convinced, still feels like a terribly niche item, not really useful to most professionals (who'd I'd think, prefer light laptops and/or small tablets in combination with a growing presence of now ~5 inch phones and smartwatches) either. Sure it's a nice device but is it going to turn around tablet sales for Apple? I'm not convinced. I just don't see a 13 inch screen beating say the MBAs or Surface 2s of the world.

Mostly I just feel like expensive tablets are a thing of the past. Tablets kind of filled this niche role in between phones and laptops, until phones became bigger (4 years ago the iPhone was 3.5 inches, then 4 inches, then 4.7 and now the biggest is 5.5), and laptops became not necessarily much smaller (although they did, 11 and 12 inch form factors are super popular, versus the more traditional 15 and 17, or the old 12' powerbooks with huge bezels that are bigger than 15 inch macbooks today), but much, much lighter and with solid battery life and SSD ubiquity. I just feel there's no real room anymore for expensive tablets, there's still room (1) very niche uses and (2) dirt cheap tablets, plenty of room for a random 'good enough' tablet for at home to read the news that don't cost $800. I mean hell the freaking keyboard is $170, the pencil $100 and the tablet $800, obviously you want cellular, too, as a pro user, that's $1080. So now we're at $1350 for an iPad pro with a keyboard and stylus that's still sub-par to other solutions. Anyway I don't have many doubts I'll be proven wrong, they don't just build random stuff without a ton of focus group data and conversations with business users, but I'm not really seeing it right now.

Unless of course you want a 12" screen with a digitizer, then that Air is useless to you without some very expensive 3rd party hardware.

> If you want a tablet form factor then you would be better served buying a Surface [...]

The iPad pro is a tablet.

> [...] since at least it runs a real operating system designed for "pro" use not the closed eco system that is iOS.

Yeah, there's the rub. The only thing is many people don't care. Do you know why businesses bought Macs in the early 90s? To run Photoshop or Quark Xpress or Pagemaker. The workers didn't need computers, they needed things that ran Photoshop.

What happened when Photoshop couldn't keep up on the Mac since Intel was racing ahead? Many companies bought PCs to run Photoshop.

Tons and tons of people don't care about the OS. In fact the simplicity of iOS may be a boon to them. They're probably using Adobe Creative Cloud anyway.

Tablet? Light? Runs software they care about? Works well? They'll buy it.

> My current generation Apple TV is unplugged and gathering dust while I use the Smart TV, PS4, Xbox 360 (In that order) for my on demand streaming.

That's because the current Apple TV sucks. It was fine once, but it's basically been unchanged for about 5 years. They're fixing that.

I don't know about you, but the "Smart TV" stuff built into my TV is terribly slow. And I don't want to boot a full console to stream a little video. Many people don't even own game consoles.

> Why Apple didn't put iTunes on Smart TVs

See previous paragraph about smart TVs sucking. Apple has learned it's lesson (see Motorola ROKR).

> Almost forgot to mention; this thing doesn't even support UHD?

And I'm sure the 1% of the population with 4k TVs and fast enough internet connections is really sad about that.

Of course iTunes doesn't even have 4k content, but surely their box should play it right? After all it will never be updated again.

They did the same thing with 1080p support. It will come when there is more demand.

> Tim Cook needs a wake up call.

That's pretty hyperbolic, don't you think?

We've got Rokus on the small TVs and Xbox Ones on the big ones.

That Macbook Air won't serve as a graphics tablet. The Surface Pro 3 (I have one with the i7 and 256GB) is a clunky heavy difficult to hold thing with an less than great OS experience (with either 8.1 or 10). I'd be okay with the clunky part if the OS experience was great.

No, but they are symmetric.

You would do well to consider removing the word "haters" from your vocabulary. It's used solely by the unempathic, the childish, and the criticism-sensitive, and doesn't in any situation help.

Look back at every single Apple announcement and you'll realize Apple just takes tech that's already out in the marketplace and refines it. They never do what you expected them to do today, and never will.

And then at the next sales-record-breaking keynote, repeat.

This is just overpriced toy, inferior to it's counterparts, but sure, it will sell, thanks to it's swag factor. (Outside of US of A and UK you only see apple stuff on very particular kind of people, the ones that gleefully spend 10x the money on a LV bag, just to rub it in other's faces. Having apple stuff is hip, nothing to do with any sort of usability)

Eventually it will come crashing down

No iTunes, but you can get the same content other places.

I don't think I'm going to upgrade anytime soon, but when I am looking for a newer tablet, the iPad Pro will tempt me.

I think Apple is primarily trying to attract artists and other creative types with the Pro. A good friend of mine is planning on giving up his Wacom and moving to an iPad Pro instead.

Fortunately, the Macbook Air still exists, so you can buy that. I wouldn't personally really have a use for this thing either, but I'm sure some people would.

For some people's needs sure. I think that's why Apple sells the MacBook / MacBook Air?

I would agree with the sibling comment here - the PC market isn't that great at the moment

I own surface 3 pro also for the same reason. But I don't like it and it can be bigger.