News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by yewenjie on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:23PM (#50430379)
> Our first formalization of Fermat’s Last Theorem, performed by an unreleased research version of Claude, took 11 days. It relied on a purpose-built harness along with guidance from a human researcher. By contrast, a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents fully formalized the theorem in just 30 hours, with minimal human intervention. Fable 5.2 started from minimal prompts, built its own ways to coordinate, and used no mathematical references, only a list of intermediate theorem statements to score progress. It needed one-third of the action tokens as our first formalization and produced a proof seven times shorter. As can be seen in the figure below, Opus 5.5 (with the same 1,000-agent setup) completed only 26% of the formalization in 18 hours, and barely made any more progress after 30.

Most people don't really have intuitions on what it means to push the frontier now (because AI has surpassed everything they are good at, for example, coding). We are truly inside the singularity now (using Kurzweil's definition, slightly paraphrased - the time when technology progresses so fast no one can keep track with it.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by freecodeio on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:26PM (#50430443)
I gotta admit, I am jelly as fuck I don't have access to a billion dollar datacenter. Would LOVE to put 1000 fable 5.2 agents to self-coordinate and get them to do something for me. Fuck life is unfair.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by flanz_10 on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:36PM (#50430640)
apply at one of the frontier labs
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by freecodeio on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:46PM (#50430843)
yeah I wish
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by microsoftedging on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:16PM (#50431342)
you never know until you try, even though the odds might suck, to be fair.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by flanz_10 on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:26PM (#50431505)
okay then don't apply
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by theteapot on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:05PM (#50432126)
I just applied. "Dear Dario, Gimme job. Kind regards, theteapot.". Fingers crossed.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by thimabi on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:41PM (#50430759)
I’d be happy even without having access to a billion dollar datacenter, if I could use local models properly, but even that requires some serious hardware that is out of my reach. We live in weird times: I have lots of hope for the future, but meanwhile AI access is pretty iniquitous indeed.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by adventured on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:13PM (#50431285)
Sub 1% of the planet has access to cutting edge frontier AI.

Sub 1% of the planet has any practical use for the top tiers of AI systems. That will likely always be true.

The gap between the haves and have nots will drastically widen further, and very quickly. The bottom ~95-97% will be left behind in a way that will be impossible to overcome. The age of AI + robotics will just make it that much harder to climb for most people, these are systems that are in aggressive, direct competition with human labor. And in short order the AI + robots will be vastly superior to human labor (it doesn't really matter if we're speaking in terms of 10 years or 30 years).

AI will consolidate the winnings. The gigantic gains by the elite rich related to AI over the past few years, is merely a hint of what's to come. Capital will win as it always does.

There will be some gains for most everybody else, those gains will be comparatively trivial though. A house bot that saves people an hour of labor here and there, AI that automates some trivial life tasks.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by melasadra on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:46PM (#50431856)
I'm using Opus 5.5 and I cant help but think that I might very well be one of the few people who do so in my local area ( developing country, one of the poorest province ).

Had Opus make software for some local business and seeing it blew people's mind.

20$ aint cheap for us but I'm actually considering upgrading to the 100$ tier.

Am just jelly people are using 100-200$ subscription ^_^

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by websap on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:29PM (#50430491)
This 1000x!

We've sort of entered this twilight zone where most humans don't have the time, expertise, or moral compass to be able to use these models.

We're all going to be harness engineers in the future.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by achierius on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:45PM (#50430809)
> We're all going to be harness engineers in the future

No, that will be the model's job. We will largely be unemployed. Of course, we can surely depend on the largesse of Altman and Amodei to keep us fed and sheltered.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by adventured on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:01PM (#50431092)
All the human engineers will be in harnesses in the future.

Within three years most software developer jobs will consist of taking instruction from the AI systems. The humans won't see it that way, but that's what it will actually be. Realistically the thing that will happen is the humans will be put into harnesses (cubicles) and prompted by the AI (I need you to plug that server in; I need you to give me access to such and such; now do this, then do that). Most tech jobs will consist of AI telling the human what the AI needs the human to do next, de facto the human will be in a harness and will be getting told what to do.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by dominotw on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:06PM (#50431166)
But who gives it the intial prompt as to what to do?

Someone has to type in "create the next billboard top 1 single" ?

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by IshKebab on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:25PM (#50431496)
It'll be Sam Altman "make people love me, fan out humans".
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by adventured on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:27PM (#50431538)
The ownership class, the capital class - whatever people prefer to call it, will still call all the shots as they always have, and always will.

So whether that's a CEO at the top instructing a human manager that then instructs AI systems, which then put into motion plans that include the harnessed humans getting prompted, or however it's decided to best configure the top operational tiers - that's all fairly irrelevant ultimately. All human labor, and all AI labor, will be in harnesses. Realistically all human labor has always been in a harness.

The people in charge will be the people that control the capital. They will instruct the AI to their bidding, they will control the data centers the AI lives in, they will own the robots doing the labor in factories, they will own the factories, they will control the grid, they will control the electricity generation, et al.

It's true now, it'll be true tomorrow. Nothing fundamental will shift at that tier: don't be labor, own.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by bobson381 on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:44PM (#50431812)
I like to think of capital itself as possessing actancy - the ultra rich are just the closest to the raw thing, and its most powerful servants.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by bobson381 on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:43PM (#50431792)
If you take Daniel Schmachtenberger's thesis, these models are the latest extension of an ongoing misaligned moloch-like entity, using our institutions/economy/corporations, etc. as its organelles. All powered, most recently, by fossil fuel.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by greenchair on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:08PM (#50432178)
the product owner/manager
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by fph on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:42PM (#50431777)
Isn't this what driving a car has become as well? Google Maps says "take the 3rd exit", and the dumb human takes the 3rd exit.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by BodyCulture on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:51PM (#50431927)
I still see errors in AI output on a daily basis.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by theF00l on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:55PM (#50431990)
Yes but we see errors in human output too.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by segfaultex on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:15PM (#50432277)
Sure but humans aren’t being billed as “superintelligence”
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by girvo on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:17PM (#50432295)
A human can be fired, or put on a PIP, and is otherwise responsible for their output.

An algorithm isn’t. I still dunno how they’re gonna square that circle.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by digdugdirk on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:57PM (#50432008)
Exactly. It will now be your job to catch those errors. Or else.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by Sateeshm on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:07PM (#50431181)
We're all harness engineers already
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by theteapot on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:56PM (#50432002)
> We've sort of entered this twilight zone where most humans don't have the time, expertise, or moral compass to be able to use these models.

Sounds a bit like self aggrandizing elitism to me. I can imagine some self aggrandizing nerds saying the same thing 50 years ago:

> We've sort of entered this twilight zone where most humans don't have the time, expertise, or moral compass to be able to use these IBM PCs.

Now everyone use computer.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by themgt on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:35PM (#50430632)
a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents fully formalized the theorem in just 30 hours

Haiku 3.5 formalized Fermat's Last Theorem for me in just 23 hours back before Anthropic nerfed it, this technology is a commoditized scam! Wake up sheeple!

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by otabdeveloper4 on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:35PM (#50430636)
> using Kurzweil's definition

Kurzweil probably didn't know the singularity is akshually 1000 schizo monkeys banging on a billion dollar typewriter.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by sagarm on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:38PM (#50430706)
Amusing, but this is still a qualitative change from just a few months ago.

It had seemed like progress was slowing last year as the juice ran out on moar parameters. We're well past that.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by kaffekaka on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:37PM (#50430680)
> We are truly inside the singularity (using Kurzweil's definition, slightly paraphrased - the time when technology progresses so fast no one can keep track with it).

Uh, are you serious?

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by tshaddox on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:34PM (#50431648)
This was likely already the case in the ancient world. It was certainly the case by the mid to late 15th century.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by p_l on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:37PM (#50431704)
The older, original definitions of "singularity" were less about "herp derp superintelligent AI blah blah".

and just about "we cannot really predict beyond certain things" (Vinge's "Singularity" (1993) with its "opaque wall across future")

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by dwohnitmok on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:52PM (#50431946)
> The older, original definitions of "singularity" were less about "herp derp superintelligent AI blah blah".

No they were exactly about superintelligent AI!

Vinge's 1993 article literally opens with this!

> What is the Singularity? The acceleration of technological progress has been the central feature of this century. We are on the edge of change comparable to the rise of human life on Earth. The precise cause of this change is the imminent creation by technology of entities with greater-than-human intelligence.

https://frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/book98/com.ch1/vinge.singularity...

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by Fordec on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:39PM (#50430723)
I feel like I'm increasingly reading AI current events is more like learning about historical events. By the time information has entered my head, there is even newer information out there that already makes what my brain is only currently actively processing, obsolete.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by FailMore on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:52PM (#50430933)
Nice description
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by jeremyjh on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:28PM (#50431545)
Also, the frontier labs are probably always internally using a model more advanced than what has been publicly released.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by vlyan on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:04PM (#50432108)
because they hate money? google is the only frontier lab that isn't hundreds of billions in the red.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by jeremyjh on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:08PM (#50432164)
Because they do months of testing. Also, if they have models that are really good at AI research, I’d not expect full versions to ever be released, precisely because of their love of money.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by thomasmurph on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:08PM (#50432168)
Inference on the research models they have is likely more expensive than the released ones.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by user43928 on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:18PM (#50432312)
From the model card:

  Model                AECI   95% CI (global)
  Claude Opus 5.5    174.78   170.33-180.29
  Claude Mythos 5.2  177.12   172.42-182.94
  Internal model     178.78   173.75-185.18
Considering the IPO is planned in a week, I doubt they are holding much back.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by jeremyjh on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:33PM (#50432522)
According to their S-1:

In H1 2026, cost of revenue is $2.3B.

In the same period, R&D was $9.4B. That is primarily spent on compute.

This is not a company that is optimizing for OpEx. OpEx is barely relevant to their plans. The only thing relevant to their plans is achieving AGI/ASI first, everything else is peanuts.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by Viliam1234 on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:34PM (#50431651)
Welcome to Singularity.

Now imagine feeling like this, except not just about "AI events" but about everything around you.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by boringg on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:49PM (#50431899)
I have to imagine if I worked for one of these companies on the frontier models it would be very difficult to leave for that reason. Thee pay is also pretty good.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by yieldcrv on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:46PM (#50430827)
Isn't this part of the lore behind the Dune universe?

Like, we're dropped into a post post post singularity world where AI already did all of that and is banned? as kind of a footnote that's never further explored in movie renditions that have been released

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by p_l on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:35PM (#50431673)
Dune books by Frank Herbert never actually went into what "Butlerian Jihad" was.

The semi-canonical Dune Encyclopedia (disregarded by Frank's son) differs vastly from prequels and generally points to it being a self-inflicted wound on humanity that opened the doors to widespread return of feudalism and essentially stopped humanity for a 10,000 years

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by stickfigure on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:54PM (#50430958)
> the time when technology progresses so fast no one can keep track with it

You're obviously not a frontend web developer.

These upgrades are easy peasy. "oh, my developer chatbot is smarter? great"

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by gwerbin on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:01PM (#50431080)
> a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents

Genuinely curious what that costs in terms of energy input and amortized computer cost vs. the previous version + a human's salary for 11 days.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by lubujackson on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:41PM (#50431756)
Yes, and not very helpful without knowing how many agents were used by the custom-built harness. The 30 hrs vs. 11 days means nothing without at least some token-to-token comparison. Without that, they are pumping up their new model with half data - better to just say "we solved it in 30 hours" and who cares about your internal, custom model.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by bamboozled on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:06PM (#50431174)
If we're in the singularity, can I just take the day off work and go to the beach ?
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by mentalgear on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:48PM (#50431882)
> Fable 5.2 started from minimal prompts, built its own ways to coordinate, and used no mathematical references, only a list of intermediate theorem statements to score progress. It needed one-third of the action tokens as our first formalization and produced a proof seven times shorter.

Is this really so astonishing, assuming that the 5.2 training data certainly had the 'traces' from the Fable original run in it's training data.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by legulere on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:07PM (#50432151)
Kurzweil's definition contains exponential growth across technology, something that we are not seeing.

What we're seeing instead is maybe akin to the green revolution. Before nitrogen fixation nitrogen was a resource constraining us humans. Lack of grit is what kept us from solving mathematical problems. However this lets us run into other resource constraints. A lot of technological progress does not solely hinge on thinking/processing. The speedup of creating new medicines with LLMs will probably be very small, as you still need to do all the testing. In software development you still need to first find out what to build in the first place and even mathematics where LLMs seem to shin brightest, it's becoming clearer that mathematics is not just solving mathematical problems.

Apart from that, a good coder is better than LLMs, shown by the amount of hand-holding needed. The only issue is that the amount of research an LLM can do and knowledge it is trained with far surpasses the amount of work humans would need to spend by hand, but we can also us LLMs for that.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by origini on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:23PM (#50432382)
I thought we see exp right now or indications.

Like models getting significant better every 7 month and model usage on openrouter.

https://metr.org/ << someone said though that they are biased.

Math is for sure about solving mathematical problems, mathematicians complaing about humans capability of understanding it. If you need math an LLM understands, it might not be relevant if you understand it if an LLM is getting a lot better in adjusting itself if it goes the wrong way.

And this situation is only a few weeks old. We don't know how this field continues to progress. Books like the culture series and other scifi do describe a future were humans spend their time only to understand what the machines are doing or did.

The speedup of medicines is for sure faster with. There are still old labs doing everything by hand and the neolabs doing everything a lot more automated. An AI can do experiments 24/7 and can scale with the hardwarelabs, but it also can hold the whole research field in context and it might be a lot faster of choosing the better experiments or the right ones to begin with.

In software developmet (my field) i can do today alone what you needed a Team for. Yeah it doesn't help the field of software engineering if you need 5 times less people and you don't have any motivation AT ALL to teach someone avg. We are already planning to remove one member of our team due to AI. And we will not extend the contract of 2 consultants.

It just doesn't make sense anymore. If i explain in a ticket a task well enough for someone who has not been in our team for years, the AI is already better in it. We don't struggle with AI output, we struggle more with not having a Monorepo.

Give an LLM access to a GPU system or a GPU cluster. It immediadly feels complelty different then running it on some laptop. It can now do simulations, a lot more and faster experiments etc. I had this epiphany just a few month ago. I always used my laptop for projects (it needs very little ram, i can quickly check what it is doing and i actually do use it primarily when im on holidays) until I thought "let me use claude to do some gaussian splatting experiment its always so cumbersome to use these tools" and it changed my perception immediadly.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by suddenlybananas on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:07PM (#50432156)
Why re-formalise Fermat's Last Theorem instead of doing something new? It's obviously an improvement, but it's an odd thing to boast about as opposed to a novel formalisation or proof.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by perching_aix on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:30PM (#50432462)
[delayed]
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by suddenlybananas on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:36PM (#50432569)
Yeah, but obviously doing a formalisation that has been done before is different than doing a new one since you have knowledge about the previous attempt. It also just seems less impressive than doing something new and the reason they are reporting this is marketing.
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by stalfie on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:31PM (#50432485)
It's how RLVR works, when you have a task with a verified answer, you rerun the model on it and promote the reasoning chains that reach the answer. That way you can hill climb model capabilities on any problem you find, which generalises to new problems to solve, which you can then hill climb again and so on.

So since they are doing that task anyway (re-solving the problem increasingly more efficiently), this is a easy check point to publish to show how far they've gotten in that process.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by ActionHank on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:15PM (#50432267)
Gotta be honest, LLMs are still subpar compared to what I do.

Can they produce more code more quickly? For sure.

Can they go deeper on a topic instantly? Definitely.

Would I say their output is better? Almost certainly not.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by pwython on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:21PM (#50432347)
Maybe that's true, and maybe you're an outlier. But from what we've been seeing, the frontier LLMs have torn apart many codebases, finding bugs littered everywhere, some over a decade old.

At this point it seems impossible for human to write better/more efficient code than a swarm of agents -- to be clear, multiple coordinated LLMs, not one-shot builds with a single agent.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:26PM (#50432419)
>Gotta be honest, LLMs are still subpar compared to what I do.

Im sorry... what?

You are replying to this:

> Our first formalization of Fermat’s Last Theorem, performed by an unreleased research version of Claude, took 11 days. It relied on a purpose-built harness along with guidance from a human researcher. By contrast, a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents fully formalized the theorem in just 30 hours, with minimal human intervention. Fable 5.2 started from minimal prompts, built its own ways to coordinate, and used no mathematical references, only a list of intermediate theorem statements to score progress. It needed one-third of the action tokens as our first formalization and produced a proof seven times shorter. As can be seen in the figure below, Opus 5.5 (with the same 1,000-agent setup) completed only 26% of the formalization in 18 hours, and barely made any more progress after 30.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by an0malous on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:17PM (#50432294)
No one is verifying any of this work or these claims
Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:28PM (#50432437)
This is probably how it's gonna be.

AI discovers 500 things per day.

People mine them for interesting results.

Devote previous time (in the face of tons of discoveries) to validate the most compelling ones.

Re:Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 by nonethewiser on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:24PM (#50432389)
It's incredible. Automating the scientific process and knowledge. It's crazy to think what the world might look like. Both in terms of putting the knowledge into practice and how we think of scientific discovery.

I mean we don't even think about it but currently we are sort of discovery starved. We are fairly able to keep up with the theory. If a new technology is discovered we can implement it before something better comes out. What happens when our N discoveries per days becomes 1000N discoveries per day?

It flips. We now have more knowledge than we know how to capitalize on. We have to search it. Mine it for opportunities.

And then we automate that.