News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Arnt on Saturday November 07, 2026 @02:38PM (#50407353)
I wrote something like this a long time ago. The customer's request was: "don't make this software produce swear words on its own". Note: on its own.

Producing "trump is …" when a user wants that is one thing. Producing that when the user wants something else could be construed as coming from the software itself, and we all know that people looking for a shitstorm will seize the opportunity.

So probabilistic software like a swipe interpreter will often be written to avoid some guesses, to lessen the chance of a shitstorm. Users who want that output have to use a dependable input method instead of one based on probabilities and guesswork.

IMO this avoidance isn't among the ten worst consequences of shitstorms.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by pests on Saturday November 07, 2026 @02:43PM (#50407397)
Isnt the regular keyboard on iOS typing also probabilistic? I thought the entire claim to fame of the original iPhone keyboard was how it could determine which key you meant based on letter frequency / word usage / etc. Does that mean it can also stop you from typing certain things? So whats the difference between the swipe interpreter and the fat finger interpreter?
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Arnt on Saturday November 07, 2026 @03:10PM (#50407596)
A matter of degree.

The regular key-by-key will also do some probabilistic changes. Just less than the swipe interpreter.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by metadat on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:00PM (#50408004)
As per the TFA, it’s now a transformer based system.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by scratcheee on Saturday November 07, 2026 @02:44PM (#50407411)
An even more generous interpretation (not saying this is the case and a complete excuse, but might explain some of the choices) is that there are some phrases people do not want to type by accident.

“Male chauvinist pig” is something many would be very upset to send to their boss by accident. So it’s perhaps understandable some such phrases are not excluded from the guesswork.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by ryandrake on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:04PM (#50408046)
What I don't understand is how you can type something that is close enough to “Male chauvinist pig” that an uncensored autocorrect will guess it, without intending to type “Male chauvinist pig”. That phrase and others like it, even if one or two letters are wrong or swiped through incorrectly, is unambiguous.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Arnt on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:25PM (#50408209)
You can.

Step 1: a word of 4-6 letters that's somewhat close to "male". Say "name" or "masked". Look at the key positions, you'll see what I mean.

Step 2: a word that's even less close to chauvinist, and that makes sense after the word you intended, but no sense after "male", so the guesser picks "chauvinist", based on its incorrect first guess and your second swipe.

Step 3: ditto.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by kragen on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:31PM (#50408253)
Even on a single-word basis, "male" might be make, makes, Maria, Maia, narrow, Maddow, marrow, Mariya, Marita, mafia, males, mallow, Maslow, male's, or masks. "Chauvinist" might be coatings, costing, coaxing, coasting, crating, contingency, contingent, contingencies, chauvinistic, Chauvin, or chaining. "Pig" might be PC, PIC, PCC, pox, poof, PVC, pH, put, pug, PV, Pooh, log, or pub. These are all possibilities that were actually presented when I tried to swipe these words on my Android phone, twice each. Taking into account additional context will broaden this set of possibly confusable words, not narrow it.

We might not talk about a "narrow contingency put" or "Maria crating PVC" very often, but an uncensored autocorrect would almost certainly correct those phrases to the far more common "male chauvinist pig" in the rare cases where someone did try to swipe them.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hnlmorg on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:33PM (#50409057)
One of my friends is famously bad at texting. She’s even posted antisemitic stuff by accident. This is on Android.

I know these are all typos because she’s a really close friend and easily the last person who would be offensive to other people.

So yes, you’d be surprised at what people can typo on a phone.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Nevermark on Saturday November 07, 2026 @07:57PM (#50409555)
"Male chauvinist" and "Male chauvinist pig" are related in meaning but not equivalent.

The difference matters enough that preemptively suggesting "pig" is not a desirable "service" for most people.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by howunfortunate on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:06PM (#50408066)
As another example, imagine if "trans women are" autosuggested "men" or "ugly" for the next prediction.

This would probably be a bad customer experience for many people, even if Apple could prove these are simply the most common n-gram completions.

And if they altered their training data to avoid completions that are politically unpalatable, IMO that's actually much much worse than a grey list.

I'm a big free speech guy but this one is genuinely a bit complex.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by xenator on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:20PM (#50408169)
Autocomplete should be following the user's own behaviour. If a user thinks that "trans women are men", then it will be not a universal experience, it is just this separated user's own statistics.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by howunfortunate on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:29PM (#50408239)
This is a good solution but you still have to deal with the cold start problem for the ML
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by throooooo on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:35PM (#50408277)
Then you just don't suggest anything if there isn't enough data yet. Regardless, auto-complete suggestions is different from what TFA is about.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by alfjal on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:35PM (#50408274)
That's asking a lot given the current state of the iOS keyboard.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by nostrademons on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:52PM (#50408375)
It already does this. I've found it'll suggest my kids' names frequently, after just 1-2 letters. It didn't do this before they were born. I assume it's training on my previous messages.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by stackghost on Saturday November 07, 2026 @05:29PM (#50408654)
I never understood the memes about autocorrect until I got an iPhone. The keyboard is so much worse than GBoard it’s incredible.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hairofadog on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:51PM (#50408370)
I can imagine that autocompleting following users' behavior could bite people who do a lot of sexting or could reveal other secrets, ex. `the door code is`
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by conception on Saturday November 07, 2026 @05:17PM (#50408582)
Yes, please allow me to have corps not only know everything about me but have a hyper accurate way to know what I’m thinking as well.

Or we could just type the whole sentence we need.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by reorder9695 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:00PM (#50408859)
Futo keyboard on Android has a transformer LM option that uses local ML for text prediction, I've found it to work very well. As far as I'm aware it's completely on device.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by SV_BubbleTime on Saturday November 07, 2026 @08:34PM (#50409734)
“Generated entirely on device” seems like an omission that doesn’t cover diagnostic, telemetry, “product improvement” logs.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by stavros on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:55PM (#50409187)
A friend made a keyboard for iOS because he didn't like any of the existing ones, and it doesn't send any data anywhere: https://typeneuma.com
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by xenator on Sunday November 08, 2026 @03:58AM (#50411539)
It can be the same way as it works now, hash table with hits stats.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by rafram on Saturday November 07, 2026 @04:38PM (#50408291)
> even if Apple could prove these are simply the most common n-gram completions

Tech-illiterate online mobs enraged by Apple “making a statement” will not stick around long enough to hear them argue about n-grams or whatever.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by bjourne on Saturday November 07, 2026 @05:30PM (#50408659)
> As another example, imagine if "trans women are" autosuggested "men" or "ugly" for the next prediction.

Or imagine if it auto-completed "the Holocaust is" with "a myth created by the ZOG"! I don't like these "imagine if X was Y" arguments because X isn't Y. Refusing to auto-complete "the occupied territories" (X) is really not the same thing as refusing to auto-complete antisemitism or group-based hate speech (Y). Argue whether X is right or wrong without changing the subject.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by aucisson_masque on Saturday November 07, 2026 @05:54PM (#50408814)
Most people are not anti semitic.

Most people are not against transsexuals and gays.

At least in the western civilization, I don’t see why it need to censor anything.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by melbournesky on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:13PM (#50408955)
They don't want to give people the opportunity to say something like, "trans women can't change their shoe or hand size so clearly there are differences in men and women" because that goes against the ideology.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by sssilver on Saturday November 07, 2026 @09:16PM (#50409906)
Most people where?

In the Bay Area?

In the United States?

In the Middle East?

In India and China?

All of planet earth?

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by howunfortunate on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:21PM (#50408996)
> I don't like these "imagine if X was Y" arguments because X isn't Y

What you're really saying, perhaps without realizing it, is "I have zero empathy or theory of mind for people who have different views than me"

The whole reason these arguments exist is because power changes hands. If you like a rule only because the person currently wielding power aligns with you, you don't actually like the rule. You just like power.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by bjourne on Saturday November 07, 2026 @11:35PM (#50410446)
Dumbest argument so far.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by briandw on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:00PM (#50408860)
[delayed]
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by cite_please on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:14PM (#50408957)
That’s ok. I’ve already made theguardian.com the bad guy a long time ago so the two cancel out.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hnlmorg on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:29PM (#50409039)
There is a way to win here: make it an opt out

- [ ] Disable autocomplete swear filter.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by sam1714 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @07:04PM (#50409252)
You'd end up with pages of options, especially once people realize they can get on the bandwagon.

Disable swears, alcohol, smoking, marijuana, gambling, child abuse and neglect, sensitive East Asian politics, sensitive Middle Eastern politics, WWII politics, Late Ottoman genocides, LGB issues, T issues, HOA issues, vegetarian issues, vegan issues...

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hnlmorg on Sunday November 08, 2026 @04:43AM (#50411764)
You really don’t need to get that granular.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hnlmorg on Sunday November 08, 2026 @05:35AM (#50412027)
That’s a silly exaggeration. You’re literally just saying “there shouldn’t be a user toggle because developers have no self-control for stopping at one toggle”.

To which the obvious counterargument is just “well of course they can stop at just one toggle. That’s not an excuse to have zero toggles”.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Arnt on Sunday November 08, 2026 @07:53AM (#50412847)
There's a story about the Microsoft Word team. I'm not sure it's true, but here goes:

The team had heard that most customers only use 5% of Word's copious feature set, and as part of some rewrite the team set about finding out what the 5% were.

And it was most of the feature set. Customer A used these 5%, B these others...

It's easy to say just one option without describing exactly what that should do. L10n raises some questions, for example. Or just two options, or three. Much harder if you want to be specific.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hnlmorg on Sunday November 08, 2026 @08:07AM (#50412955)
We aren’t talking about completely disparate types of functionality. We are talking about enabling or disabling very narrow categories of words from literally one feature.

The store you mentioned wasn’t about exclusions from each and every dictionary. It was about tools that do entirely unique things.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Arnt on Sunday November 08, 2026 @08:24AM (#50413106)
I think you're saying that it's possible that Apple can add the option you want and go on stonewalling other people's requests for other options. Right?
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hnlmorg on Sunday November 08, 2026 @08:40AM (#50413270)
I'm saying the opposition against having an option is "what if people want more options?" is silly and unproductive.

Do you make the same argument for everything?

"You shouldn't treat yourself to a takeaway because what if you want more takeaways?"

"You shouldn't buy a car because what if you want more cars?"

etc.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Retric on Saturday November 07, 2026 @10:30PM (#50410187)
iOS has been steadily offering more options over time. And yes taken individually customization seems like the correct choice basically every time but eventually you end up with a mess.

Consider the logic for tap’s could offer hundreds of customizations. That’s core functionality and I’m sure someone internally is thinking deeply about many of them. But if you offer zero customization most people just get used to how things operate so skipping that functionality isn’t terrible for the average user. Instead they offer options for people with disabilities which is a distinct group who can’t just adapt and thus a meaningful justification.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by close04 on Sunday November 08, 2026 @05:27AM (#50411983)
Disabling the “predictive” feature entirely or allowing predictions based exclusively on what it learns from the user could work. The latter would probably be unpopular because learning from what you type sounds intrusive.

But any prediction picked by Apple without user input could be seen as Apple’s speech. If it’s suggested by Apple then they aren’t censoring you, they are censoring themselves.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by buran77 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:40PM (#50409110)
I don't blame Apple for trying to straddle the line that makes everyone equally unhappy. But I steer away from autocorrect entirely so I'm not irritated daily by this like others may be.

Talking about autocorrect and irritation, I remember a situation where someone caused a minor international incident by writing that something "caused a lot of irritation". The word they were aiming for before autocorrect chimed in was "iterations" (on a document). I'd rather make my own mistakes than constantly have to fight an autocorrect system.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by armchairhacker on Sunday November 08, 2026 @01:18AM (#50410881)
They could make it a simple algorithm and publish it. Then if someone accuses Apple of being biased towards their word, they just get directed to the algorithm.

Of course, people will still accuse Apple of being biased. But they’ll be wrong, and never manage to prove it (unlike this guy), which I think matters.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Dylan16807 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @08:29PM (#50409715)
The problem here isn't a mere lack of suggestion. If it merely treated that situation as a completely blank context that wouldn't get in the way of typing.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by roenxi on Saturday November 07, 2026 @09:05PM (#50409867)
I don't even think it is complex; you can say what you like so there isn't a free speech issue here. Users are still going to type what they intended to type. Apple can reasonably have their software avoid making guesses about what users meant to say on charged topics.

It'd be a better if Apple provided a list somewhere for transparency but what they are doing isn't going to cause anyone any trouble.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by howunfortunate on Saturday November 07, 2026 @10:19PM (#50410146)
"It's really hard to type anything outside the Overton window, and really easy and seamless to type anything inside the Overton window" is definitely a form of soft censorship worth worrying about IMO.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by roenxi on Saturday November 07, 2026 @11:52PM (#50410507)
[delayed]
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by zahlman on Sunday November 08, 2026 @12:39AM (#50410715)
> I am perfectly capable of expressing myself if HN's software allows me to misspell…

This isn't about "promoting bad spelling"; we aren't talking about "misspelled 'bad' words don't get autocorrected". We're talking about a system where you try to type a "bad" word and the system substitutes a "good" word unless/until you override it. Or a system where you effectively choose every word from a menu, and the "bad" words are hidden using UI "dark patterns".

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by tobylane on Sunday November 08, 2026 @05:08AM (#50411885)
> I'm a big free speech guy but this one is genuinely a bit complex.

How does free speech come into it? Suggestions are not limitations (by a private company) on your output.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by hilbert42 on Saturday November 07, 2026 @06:39PM (#50409106)
"The customer's request was: "don't make this software produce swear words on its own". Note: on its own"

I'm against Apple's attempt to meld popular speech into a form that it thinks is acceptable on two accounts—I'm not the fastest typist so when prediction doesn't work the way I want it to it slows me down. Second, I'm in Australia and Australians use very colorful expressions in everday speech that seem to trigger the sensibilities of many delicate American ears. In short, we don't want attempts to censor what we say.

If one has to introduce censorship into prediction then users should have the option of either turning it off or selecting a graded system that best suits their style.

In fact that's not a completely new idea. Eudora email had an option that I rather liked, when selected, users could type whatever they liked then depending on the degree of offense or profanity a series of red chilli icons would appear. Mildly offensive text would bring up an icon with a one-chili warning whereas highly offensive language would automatically trigger a three-chili icon along with a message to the effect "They're burning hot words, do you really want to send this message as is?"

A scheme along these lines seems eminently more sensible than secretly censoring a predictive word list.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by simondotau on Saturday November 07, 2026 @08:27PM (#50409709)
If you were relying on Apple to predict your speech in order to speak, then perhaps it isn’t your speech being censored. Speak for yourself; don’t complain that Apple won’t speak for you.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by throwaway2037 on Sunday November 08, 2026 @01:29AM (#50410928)

    > Second, I'm in Australia and Australians use very colorful expressions in everday speech that seem to trigger the sensibilities of many delicate American ears.
Can you share some examples? And, can you share how you know so much about the "many delicate American ears"? Finally, are there any expressions that Americans use in daily life that would offend Aussies?
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by oneeyedpigeon on Sunday November 08, 2026 @04:29AM (#50411685)
Not the parent - I'm a brit - but the obvious example I'm aware of is aussies' casual use of the c-word. It's used much more frequently than it would be in USA - or even the UK - but often in a complementary/friendly sense.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by sib on Sunday November 08, 2026 @05:31AM (#50412002)
Yes - that was the example that I was going to use. That's pretty much the worst single-word swear you could use in the US and it's basically nothing in Australia (and pretty common in the UK).
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by defrost on Sunday November 08, 2026 @05:44AM (#50412085)
One popular Australian song of past years was I might be a C-word, but I'm not a F-word C-word - https://genius.com/Tism-i-might-be-a-cunt-but-im-not-a-fucki...

> expressions that Americans use in daily life that would offend Aussies?

Civilian regular (daily, weekly) group pledge of allegiance stuff. We're patriotic, but that OTT flag drapery stuff mostly comes across as on the nose.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by Dylan16807 on Sunday November 08, 2026 @08:39AM (#50413261)
> Civilian regular (daily, weekly) group pledge of allegiance stuff. We're patriotic, but that OTT flag drapery stuff mostly comes across as on the nose.

I don't think any of the wording of that is the issue though?

Also to be clear that's a schoolchildren-only activity.

Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by JTbane on Saturday November 07, 2026 @09:33PM (#50409969)
[delayed]
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by zahlman on Sunday November 08, 2026 @12:44AM (#50410736)
Heh. I was once asked to implement a test version of a system like this. It was reverted after the CEO couldn't log in on the new build and I showed exactly why it was the system's fault.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by cromka on Saturday November 07, 2026 @10:04PM (#50410076)
This is a very good counterexample, it made me switch from agreeing with OP to disagreeing.
Re:Apple Keyboard has a blacklist of phrases you can't swipe by makeitdouble on Saturday November 07, 2026 @11:02PM (#50410317)
We already got past that with search engine's auto suggestions for instance. If you Google "Australia is" you'll get a list of suggestions that could be construed as coming from Google, but most people understand it's just from statistics, and those still making a fuss about usually get ignored (political corruption aside).

Sure your client could want to be ultra sure, but I'd argue the censorship coming from a marketing concern doesn't make it specifically better. If I actually use swear words all the time for instance your software would be constantly penalizing me.

That's a tradeoff they're willing to make, but if I was a user it would be totally fair for me to be pissed and hold it against them.