Not that there's anything wrong with loving and playing classical music, which is a factor too.
This may be why it's different when you start very young. You're not conscious of your own sucking, you just play, usually in a setting where everybody's congratulating you. For sucking. ;-)
I started on classical, and got into jazz by accident, as a bassist. It turns out that you can function in a band as a bassist without having to improvise very much, so I was able to learn at my own pace and eventually did. In fact a lot of good jazz players started out in school jazz bands or large ensembles where you didn't have to be a good improviser right up front.
In a career, seeming competent can be valuable, but for learning something new and creative, it often just creates a barrier to getting started.
I picked up singing 4 years ago (I’m 42 now), starting from nothing, and I’ve been taking regular lessons. I still suck. But I suck slightly less than I did when I was starting, and what motivates me is the sheer joy that it brings. I just hope it lasts.
If you really want to play a David Gilmour guitar solo or sing some Led Zeppelin, it better not suck because it won't hit the mark at all.
For me, the reason to pick up the guitar as a kid was to play stuff I liked, stuff that turned out not to be that easy, and every time I play, I feel that gap of where I feel I should be to respect the music I'm trying to play.
I wish I had more your attitude.
(Although they're also tones that a lot of players still try to chase for their entire lives and never really reach. There's some magic to them beyond the more obvious steps.)
It's also obvious to me that at this point I'm never going to reach the virtuoso level even if I really wanted to, but so what? I suck, but whenever I manage to play something that I couldn't before it brings me joy.
My sister is in a whole different league than me in terms of singing but she also performs live, which I don't plan to do unless it's a karakoe evening.
As mentioned in the top comment, or somewhere near that, the first step ... listening to your first botched song, going on camera ... was the hard step. I made a monologue about this, a mix of english and hindi, on my tiktok profile.
PS: I have an alt, or a main. Not sure if that is an issue or not. I opened this account a long time back and then decided I did not want my name to be public so I opened an alt. This discussion made me reverse that decision just for one comment.
I updated my profile to add my social links, and happy to answer any questions from mods/dang about dupe accounts, but in general do not want to comment on AI, politics, corporations or anything controversial where it can be linked to my identity. And this is not trying to get followers or viewers - I have my hands full anyways.
The reality is, you're probably better than at least half of their followers. If that actually matters in the grand scheme anyway.
It's the result of a lifetime of ballet dancing. Probably 10,000 hours, at least.
I was just in awe.
“Are we human or are we dancer”
I am an ex-professional ballet dancer, and one of the things I always find interesting is that any experienced ballet dancer can instantly tell who trained as a child and who didn't solely by how they stand (literally not even moving) at the barre. But the thing is, children with only a few years of training under their belt will often show this good form, while I have literally never seen someone who started as an adult, even dedicated adults who take class 4-5 times a week, get rid of that "I started as an adult" posture.
As an example, I was actually quite impressed at how Natalie Portman really managed to "look the part" in her role as a ballerina in Black Swan. Still, she wasn't fooling anyone with training - even with just a simple port de bras (raising of an arm), you could easily tell she wasn't a dancer.
I've tried emulating those movements, and just look like Bullwinkle.
(also: ex-pro ballet to HN? Can't imagine there's much crossover in that Venn!)
It's perhaps not super common, but not as rare as you might think. Only a teeny tiny minority of ballet dancers have full careers, meaning they make it to the level of principal (the highest rank in a ballet company) and then retire in their 40s, usually to go on to another career in dance like teaching. Many more are like me, where we trained intensively as children, then made it into a company but saw that there'd be a ceiling on our advancement (meaning we'd only make it to corps de ballet or soloist level based on our ability), so left after a few years to do something else.
Then there are the fascinating outliers like Robert Wallace, who was a dancer with ABT and a principal at Boston Ballet (so the pinnacle of the career), then went to Yale at 32, graduated summa cum laude in economics, and now is CEO of Stanford Management Company where he runs Stanford's $50 billion endowment.
Which is interesting, because from what I can tell she studied ballet from a young age, which potentially puts a hole in your theory. Unless you're only taking about professional dancers who started young versus professional dancers who started late, rather than any (i.e. non-professional) dancer.
The ballet world even has a name for small neighborhood dance schools, a "Dolly Dinkle" school (it's a little bit of a knock, but not much, as most professional dancers started at one of these places before moving on to professional training).
But for contrast, take a look at the 12 year olds at the Vaganova Ballet Academy. At that point they've only been at the academy 2 or 3 years, and while they have some "child mannerisms" in their dancing, they all hold and carry themselves like professional dancers.
4-5 times / week is not a lot on its own.
You need like 20-25 hours / week. That’s how many actual hours a lot of us kids were spending, at least skateboarding.
If we take the 10,000 hour figure literally, at 20 hours/week, you get good in 9 years, which kind of fits when kids get good.
Almost zero adults I know can (or are willing to) spend 20 hours/wk on a physical hobby.
It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn something new, but you gotta be a little strategic.
I will speak in my ugly, broken, American accent and do it til I improve. I didn't read about this technique in a book or anything, I simply mirrored what I saw kids do and IMO a big reason kids do well with picking up language (aside from all the physiological stuff) is that they actual speak it - they aren't concerned about whether it sounds like baby talk or not
A lot of advice feels trite and cliche, like keep trying, etc - but often times it takes repetition and hearing the message in many different ways before it sinks. As a tangent - this is the value i found in therapy too - a great therapist that was patient and consistent in their messaging day in and day out eventually led to some of what they said sinking in.
People being annoyed at bad French is stereotypically Parisian to me.
P.S. My mother tongue is Spanish and it's many accents are anything but standardized.
I like to call it interest. What makes something interesting to some that I'm not sure.
I kinda think it applies to all artistic hobbies. On one hand you learn a practical hands-applying skill, on another hand you learn how to express yourself and/or listen to expression of others in chosen medium. And, well, the more you look at something, the more you see. The more you see, the more you know your own preferences.
What's even more funny, the "detail perception" skill doesn't always sync to your guitar skill. So (for me at least) there are times when I'm thinking I'm the hottest stuff around (because I just mastered something I deemed important), and there are times when I'm down because my detail perception suddenly got better and turns out I would prefer to play with more nuance (but didn't learn how to yet)
Actually I can say the same thing for programming, I can build most software I would think of building when I started 20 years ago, but there is still a large gap between what I can build but what I discovered later and now would like to be able to build (I'd need to learn lots of maths in addition to other things).
I guess that's why a lot of people grow old wondering what life would have been if they would have followed through on whatever talent they appeared to possess in youth.
I always tell people the secret to learning guitar fast is to practice for a minimum of 5 minutes a every day for 20 years. It's simultaneously a gross oversimplification while also literally being the only way to do it.
Still have to post filter hundreds of my kids though but it's worth it for some of the shots I get. Too bad they can't sit still.
The struggle is real for all people but in particular I feel robbed of resilience to even do anything. I can't speed up my therapy so the thought of years of practice being lost to time always hits me like a truck
> Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.
I think listening and transcribing is great advice. Careful listening will help to improve your own listening ability and taste. It also helps to demystify why something is great.
But it's also going to be a struggle - especially at first. You have to be prepared to struggle, a LOT. Most people won't be able to keep at it, and that's one of the things that separates the greats from everyone else.