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Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by JPKab on Friday February 28, 2025 @09:42PM (#43215114)
"As a US citizen horrified by the people that voted for Trump"

Congratulations, you've been successfully propagandized to a point where you view people who don't vote the way you do as morally inferior. I'm sure that will help you persuade them in the future.

"This administration is shaping up to be self-immolation covered by the veneer of strength, for people that don't understand what strength is." Oh, so you know what strength is huh? Did you ever serve in the military? Do you even have friends who did?

Interesting that you ignore the fact that the previous president was mentally incapable of the job for increasingly long intervals as his term progressed, and was so incompetent on the Afghanistan withdrawal that he projected tremendous weakness that acted as an invite for Putin to launch a full scale assault less than a year later.

Biden did nothing for Silicon Valley, other than try to regulate AI to a point where only a small handful of massive companies had foundation models. Marc Andreesen didn't support Trump until AFTER the Biden administration bureaucrats met with him and told him they would ensure that they would only allow a small handful of foundation AI companies that they tightly regulated to exist. He was so horrified that he switched over.

The moral inversion it takes to claim that the people willing to stand agains the Valley's intense social conformity "weak" is also revealing about how brainwashed you truly are. You're just part of the mob, and if you lived in a super conservative place, you'd be part of that mob too. Freethinking requires courage, and I see none of it in the typical SV limousine liberal. Just a bunch of millionaires who hate the billionaires they envy.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by rfrey on Friday February 28, 2025 @11:49PM (#43216033)
You elected a mad king who is intent on tearing down the alliances that have made the US prosper over the last 80 years. I don't think your parent is the one who is brainwashed. Embracing tyranny is only "courageous free thinking" in a fever dream.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:15AM (#43217184)
You don’t think there has been mad kings in the last 80 years? You think the Iraq/Afghanistan dalliances were not inherently domination oriented? JFK was killed for specific reasons that you can look up if you at all curious.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by tempestn on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:47AM (#43217383)
What does this even mean? Yes, the Iraq war was terrible. That doesn't make Trump any better.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by johnnyanmac on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:15AM (#43219421)
Nixon's administration is sill within 60 years old, so of course this isn't the only attempt in 80 years. Sad part was we were actually good at shaming corruption back then. Not sure what happened to make us complacent to daily Watergate+ level scaandals.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pedalpete on Friday February 28, 2025 @10:45PM (#43215609)
JP, the tone of your answer actually jumps to all the conclusions, and name calling. Epi just said "he was horrified", he did not in any way suggest that the people who voted for Trump were inferior.

Having said that, Biden was a pretty crap and useless leader. That doesn't mean the opposite of Biden is doing better. At least Biden did fairly minimal damage with his inaction.

Do I disagree with Biden's take on AI? Sure, but did they actually have any teeth to stop progress? China's progress in AI proves not.

You were very quick to blame others for being successfully propagandized. I suggest you point the same magnifying glass on yourself.

We dislike in others what we see in ourselves.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by DamnYuppie on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:01AM (#43217085)
Fairly minimal damage? How many illegals did he bring into the country, how much graft did he cause? He was a traitor at worst and incompetent puppet at best.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by AlecSchueler on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:15AM (#43217181)
Can we recognise how bad of a look it is to be calling people "illegals" while your leaders are giving Nazi salutes, opening concentration camps and referring to people on welfare as parasites? I don't think any of us should be engaging with such violently charged language anymore. By all means have the discussion respectfully but it's distressing to see people continue with this dehumanising language while the rest of us look on in horror.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by DamnYuppie on Saturday March 01, 2025 @04:17AM (#43217544)
I don't agree that it is a bad look. People on welfare are taking from the system and people who cross our borders and enter and stay in our country without visas are illegal. People who look at such things with "horror" dehumanize the conversation by refusing to admit the harsh truths of the world. It is like they bathe themselves in weakness and virtue signaling. They hide from how cruel the world is and try to bring everything down to some tame level that doesn't exist solely so they can control the discourse.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by AlecSchueler on Saturday March 01, 2025 @05:31AM (#43217949)
> People on welfare are taking from the system and people who cross our borders and enter and stay in our country without visas are illegal.

They are taking from the system, yes. They are people who receive welfare, not parasites. People who emigrate illegally have committed a crime, they are not themselves a crime , they are not themselves illegal. The most we could stretch to would be "illegally present people." But going further and calling a group of people "illegals" removes the human aspect from the conversation and is therefore quite literally dehumanising.

> People who look at such things with "horror" dehumanize the conversation

A conversation is not a human so this point comes across as absurd. Could you rephrase it?

> It is like they bathe themselves in weakness and virtue signaling.

This point comes across as a vaccuous ad hominem, could you rephrase it?

> They hide from how cruel the world is

I can speak for myself and say that I am very much not doing that. I couldn't be more conscious of the fact that the last time language like this was normalised it lead to the deaths of millions of innocent people. This cannot happen again. It is purely the incredible cruelty of this world that drives me to say what I am saying.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pclmulqdq on Saturday March 01, 2025 @08:05AM (#43218871)
When the completely descriptive term "illegal immigrant" becomes somehow an immoral thing to call people who immigrate illegally, it was a bit absurd. Literally every illegal immigrant has committed a crime, by definition, and that crime is immigrating illegally - "illegal" describes the mode of immigration. The previous administration used "undocumented immigrant" (and often shortened it to "undocumented") as a sort of "softening" language game.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by snozolli on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:04AM (#43219333)
When the completely descriptive term "illegal immigrant" becomes somehow an immoral thing to call people who immigrate illegally, it was a bit absurd

I think you're missing GP's point. It's "illegals" that's arguably dehumanizing. Similar to "blacks" or "the blacks" versus "black people".

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with GP, but I've definitely picked up on racism from people who talk about "blacks" instead of black people, and the homophobia from people who talk about "the gays" instead of gay people.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pclmulqdq on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:06AM (#43219355)
Why, then, is "the undocumented" not dehumanizing? This is the language that has been used under the prior administration.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by snozolli on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:13AM (#43219409)
Who says it isn't? If you want my opinion, it's the same habit creeping into the new language. Whether or not that's dehumanizing, I don't know, and I don't care. I'm fine with the term "illegals". I was just explaining what I understood GP's point to be.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by ModernMech on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:28AM (#43219531)
The real problem is the totality of it. We've gone far past calling them "illegal" to saying "they're poisoning the blood of our country", which incidentally is also language used by Nazis.

The things they say consistently ratchet toward justifications for genocide rather than away from it, and that's how it works - one small step at a time, where people explain each one away as not that bad.

But each step is toward the day when you can say "... and therefore we must implement a final solution for the problem of illegals. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but they forced us to by poisoning and invading our country."

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pclmulqdq on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:50AM (#43219723)
It's a long way to go from the word "illegal(s)" and large-scale deportations to Nazism and genocide. Deportation of illegal immigrants is a good thing. Illegal immigration is a violation of the law, and it is routine for people who overstay a visa to be deported (and usually banned from entry to a country for 10-20 years).

There are people who wait decades to legally get a visa, and all of the people who saunter over the border thinking they are above the law make a mockery of the people who do it the right way. While you keep imagining an unavoidable slippery slope to genocide, I will celebrate the return of the rule of law to immigration while making sure that it goes no further.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by AlecSchueler on Saturday March 01, 2025 @10:25AM (#43220162)
As I said in my initial comment those are all points that can be made respectfully. I have no issue with someone arguing in favour of deporting those who have illegally emigrated. That argument is indeed a far way away from Nazism.

Where it becomes concerning is when this dehumanising language begins to creep in. When the administration begins talking about people as "vermin" it becomes very concerning.

Where the fear of Nazism comes in is when we see Nazi salutes and plans to move "the illegals" to purpose built camps outside of normal American jurisdiction in Guantanamo Bay.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by ModernMech on Saturday March 01, 2025 @01:19PM (#43221970)
We're far past "illegals" tho. Like I said, we are at "vermin poisoning the blood of the country". We are past "detention facilities", and we are on to "military controlled black site known for torturing terrorists where media can't see". And the political climate has moved from "we need to build a wall" to "we need to deport 11 million people and challenge the constitutionality of citizenship".

We are closer than you think. All they need at this point is to start defying court orders and there are no more guardrails. None. They have the authority. They have the social permission structure. They have immunity from laws. They control the police and military. What's left?

If you disagree, please point to what would prevent this administration from carrying out a "final solution" against immigrants?

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by AlecSchueler on Sunday March 02, 2025 @05:15AM (#43229022)
I really don't want to get into de-railing the conversation away from the very real concern of the rise of facism in the US, but "undocumented" here is a factual adjective whereas using the term "illegals" as a noun is a clear scare-word. The more neutral equivalent would be "illegal immigrants" and the more charged version of "the undocumented" would be "undocumenteds."
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by rajup on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:56AM (#43219801)
If we should call things what they are, we should definitely start by calling Americans who emigrate to other countries what they are: immigrants in the other country. Of course most choose to cutely refer to themselves as "expats".
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pclmulqdq on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:59AM (#43219837)
Sure, I agree you should call them that. "Expat" is short for "expatriate" which is about where they come from. They are both expatriates of America and immigrants to wherever they go.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by rajup on Saturday March 01, 2025 @10:49AM (#43220400)
Glad you agree!

I'm just pointing out that the most plausible reason your fellow countrymen choose to call themselves "expats" wherever they go, is because the rhetoric in your country has dehumanized or made the word immigrants/illegal "dirty".

Not hard to imagine such rhetoric can lead to nastiness all around, ending even in violence against said group. If you don't mind that and see no problem with that, then of course there's absolutely no common ground for us to have any discussion on :)

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pclmulqdq on Saturday March 01, 2025 @01:36PM (#43222164)
I don't agree with you that the words "illegal immigrant" create violence. Also, "immigrant" does not carry a negative connotation in most uses as far as I can tell. The negative connotation comes from the word "illegal," which marks someone who commits a crime (illegal immigration) as a criminal. Of course, aside from arrest and deportation, they do not deserve to be subject to violence or maltreatment. That is how every country in the world treats people who immigrate illegally.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by rajup on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:54PM (#43223582)
> I don't agree with you that the words "illegal immigrant" create violence.

Heh I guess you've never been subject to taunts such as "go back to your country illegal" or "you don't belong here!". Must be nice!

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pclmulqdq on Saturday March 01, 2025 @05:48PM (#43224698)
I am a second-generation American and actually have been told "go back to your country" and been given the "you don't belong here" before, too. The people who say that shit are assholes and are worth ignoring (it's very easy). But thank you for informing me that disliking the people who jump the line invalidates my perspective.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by AlecSchueler on Saturday March 01, 2025 @10:18AM (#43220072)
You're talking about the term "illegal immigrants" but I was responding to the use of the term "illegals." The term you're using includes the word migrant and is therefore not dehumanising in the same way. The difference is between using illegal as an alternative or a noun. Sorry if that wasn't clear from what I said
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by cglace on Saturday March 01, 2025 @01:09PM (#43221860)
I'm sorry but these are the word games that drive the right. In essence, no one gives a shit. You are only signaling to other liberals and accomplishing nothing. Why not focus on a fight that matters.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by AlecSchueler on Sunday March 02, 2025 @05:12AM (#43229008)
You've made a good example of the danger of using words like this to group people. You've made an incorrect assumption that I am a "liberal" and you've made no argument beyond that I am serving a boogeyman in the nebulous concept of "the right," perpetuating a black and white idea of us-and-them politics and shoe-horning every possible opinion into one of two camps.

If you genuinely want to change my behaviour then please substantiate your claims, give arguments for the points you're making and speak to me like an individual rather than a hologram of whatever group you're projecting onto me.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by cglace on Monday March 03, 2025 @07:57AM (#43241298)
I don't care about political labels. These niche arguments are useless - they don't change anyone's mind. Both sides use these debates as examples to portray the other as extreme. I'm tired of discourse that claims to enlighten but only pushes people further apart, regardless of intent.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by AlecSchueler on Monday March 03, 2025 @08:46AM (#43241650)
You don't care about political labels but your entire argument was that my position "drives the right" -- no reasoning was offered, only the claim that your boogeyman of choice was somehow being strengthened. You don't care about labels but you made sure to accompany your claim by pointing out that I was "only signaling to other liberals" making again a point with no content other than the boogeyman and now with the addition of now placing me within that group on the basis of my position.

I've read back on this exchange several times. I see that I am positing something about language and explaining my reasoning, then you're responding with cries about "word games" without saying anything of substance. Do you see the same thing? What are you trying to say and why?

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by cglace on Monday March 03, 2025 @01:49PM (#43245267)
The word games I was referring to were your overly technical analysis of the term "illegal." In everyday conversation, people don't care about logical breakdowns of words. They find such arguments absurd and view those making these claims as out of touch. While you might see it as a justified position, most people perceive it as someone being pedantic/elitist with too much time on their hands.

I'm sorry that I assumed you belonged to a group on a political thread where everyone was trashing Trump. It was a dumb mistake to assume you are worried about the rise of the far right.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by saagarjha on Saturday March 01, 2025 @05:15AM (#43217864)
You can help make the world a less cruel place.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by DamnYuppie on Saturday March 01, 2025 @12:52PM (#43221676)
Yes, but making the world a less cruel place requires strength—strength of purpose, strength of character, and intellectual strength to have hard conversations about hard realities. We don’t reduce cruelty by ignoring the harm done by those who break the law. The people you defend are not victims—they are the ones making life harder for others, whether it’s overwhelming social services, committing crimes, or undercutting legal immigrants who followed the rules.

We don’t fight cruelty by sanitizing language or pretending reality isn’t what it is. We fight it by acknowledging hard truths and having the courage to address them honestly, not emotionally.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by joebig on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:04PM (#43222487)
See: Bikeshedding, also known as Parkinson's law of triviality, describes our tendency to devote a disproportionate amount of our time to menial and trivial matters.

Illegals are your bikeshed.True moral and intellectual courage is needed on a different hill rn.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by DamnYuppie on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:32PM (#43222779)
Oh, so now it’s “bikeshedding” when we talk about the rule of law, national sovereignty, and the impact of illegal immigration on American citizens? You’re right, those sound like totally menial and trivial things…

Dismissing an argument as “trivial” instead of refuting it is just a lazy way to avoid addressing uncomfortable realities. If this issue is so unimportant, why are you so bothered by it?

And what exactly is this “different hill” where true moral and intellectual courage is needed? You didn’t even say. Just throwing out vague moral superiority without naming a real issue is nothing but posturing.

If you actually have an argument, please make it. Otherwise, pretending hard conversations aren’t worth having is just an excuse to avoid them.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by saagarjha on Monday March 03, 2025 @05:10AM (#43240240)
Social services are designed to serve people. If it is being overwhelmed, that's because it's been underfunded.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by amluto on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:30AM (#43217265)
Can you explain either of your points? What do you mean? Do you have evidence?

For example, whatever one thinks about US immigration policy (I think it’s utterly broken to the point of absurdity), a cursory attempt to figure out the approximate net number of illegal immigrants added during Biden’s tenure comes suggests that the net change was pretty small. It seems that there has been a trend toward net addition of illegal immigrants in the last few years that (a) is small compared to the total number in the US and (b) started well before the end of the last Trump administration.

I did find plenty of partisan sources trying to shock me with numbers of border encounters that contain many digits, but there doesn’t seem to be much explanation of why this is a useful statistic or to what extent Biden’s administration had much to do with it. (There was a program derisively referred to as “catch and release” that seems likely to have resulted in a temporary increase in “border encounters,” but I don’t see evidence that it had much effect on net illegal immigration.)

As for graft, I genuinely have no idea what you’re referring to.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by fallingknife on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:49AM (#43217397)
The illegal immigrant numbers aren't really meaningful anymore since we moved to a policy where anyone who crosses the border and says "asylum" gets to stay for years as a legal immigrant awaiting a court date.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by amluto on Saturday March 01, 2025 @04:11AM (#43217511)
Do the DHS estimates of the illegal immigrant population include those who have applied for asylum?

In any case, until 2023, the number of asylum applications per year was pretty low.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by DamnYuppie on Saturday March 01, 2025 @12:46PM (#43221623)
You are correct finding numbers can be a bit hard. Here is what I have found.

Since President Biden took office in January 2021, the U.S. has experienced a significant increase in illegal border crossings. Reports indicate that there have been approximately 8 million "encounters" at the U.S.-Mexico border during his tenure, a substantial rise compared to previous administrations. This surge is notably higher than the figures recorded during the Trump administration, which saw approximately 2.4 million encounters over four years.

For graft I was referring to the continual mismanagement of funds by Federal Departments. - An estimated $236 billion in improper payments were made, encompassing over-payments, underpayments, and payments lacking proper documentation. - The DOD hasn't passed an audit in in 7 years! We can not account for our spending or our military assets. - The whole US Aid thing is also part of that graft. US dollars going to questionable endeavors to enrich a few.

There are many more examples from FEMA and other organizations. The examples illustrate a systemic issue with the federal governments financial management.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_policy_of_the_Joe_... https://www.gao.gov/blog/federal-government-made-236-billion... https://www.myjournalcourier.com/opinion/article/commentary-...

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by spopejoy on Saturday March 01, 2025 @01:20PM (#43221977)
> How many illegals did he bring into the country

You realize that tons of industries directly support illegal immigration by hiring said illegals right? All of agribusiness, nearly all restaurants, warehouses, meat packing etc. etc. Have you ever stopped to wonder why we don't throw the business owners in jail for this? We would stop illegal immigration overnight if we jailed the actors driving the demand but we never do, and this is bipartisan.

Capitalism is addicted to cheap labor, and it benefits from the demonization and criminalization of the immigrants as it makes them even cheaper and easier to exploit. So sure, demonize illegals all you want, you're playing the exact role the oligarchs want you to to deflect attention from them.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by johnnyanmac on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:22AM (#43219473)
I have no clue why people keep saying Biden was useless. He had to handle the COVID pandemic at its worst (after Trump 45's early actions made things worse) and managed to ease the economy to avoid (or at elast, delay) a recession compared to most other countries. He had to handle the decisions with the Ukrainan war which let the stand strong for 3 years, and unlike Trumps false promises he was starting to bring in local American production in light of realizing we were losing to China. He may not take full credit, but he also had an incredibly effective FTC/FCC that was harkening back to the days of attacking Robber Barons.

He was a good (not great) president in unprecedented bad times. He's no FDR but "inaction" would have had America in a truly awful situation. So where did all his "useless leader" narrative come from? Did people really get that brainwashed from one bad night as the proceeding precedent is spouting nonsense on the daily?

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by pedalpete on Saturday March 01, 2025 @05:12PM (#43224263)
Wow, politics really doesn't belong here. I have no idea why your comment would be downvoted. I disagree that Biden was effective, but should you really be downvoted because people disagree with you?

You kinda make a good point regarding Covid, but at the same time, I think the action he took there was basically what any non-lunatic would do. It wasn't like he had some massive amazing plan and he actioned it. He just stopped the ignorance of previous administration.

WRT Ukraine, "letting them stand strong" wasn't strong enough. The delays and lack of significant support is, I believe, what has caused the war to drag on. It's like there being a person with cancer, and rather than giving them enough chemo to kill the cancer, you give them just enough that the cancer has difficulty spreading.

What was necessary was a conclusive coordinated action among allies, so that isn't entirely Biden's fault, but everything did seem haphazard.

Also, being in Australia, I think from an economic standpoint, you are overstating the easing of the economy. Everyone has faced some level of inflation, but when I go to the US, it seems to me that "real" inflation has hit you more than other countries I've visited.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by matwood on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:10AM (#43228112)
Where Biden really failed was messaging, and the failure was at least in part related to his age.

Trump does an amazing job messaging. Sure, 99% of what he says is either a lie senile ramblings, but he’s out there all the time. A social media POTUS indeed.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by seanmcdirmid on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:14AM (#43228128)
It is depressing to think that future presidents will probably follow Trump’s lead. I liked having a boring president for four years who didn’t feel the need to be the center of attention all the time. I get that disciplined restraint must be balanced with communicating to Americans, like maybe the best kid was with Obama or Clinton, who communicated often but never did with so much bluster or arrogance.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by matwood on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:59AM (#43228357)
I’m hoping the American people don’t require that level of bluster. I think a younger Biden who could have effectively communicated his empathy, accomplishments, challenges with inflation and etc… could have won again. The election really was very close.

Another data point is when many other politicians have tried to be like Trump, they have lost. We’ll just have to see what happens in 2 and 4 years.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by etc-hosts on Friday February 28, 2025 @10:02PM (#43215284)
I thought Andreesen on the surface publicly "heel turned" because the Biden administration and SEC made some really weak motions at regulating cryptocurrencies. I believe Andreesen's words were "CRYPTO REGULATION TERROR REGIME", or something like that. Every day there is a bigger and bigger crypto token scam becoming public, not always but sometimes involving the most powerful person in the United States.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by hello_moto on Saturday March 01, 2025 @12:35AM (#43216307)
> Marc Andreesen didn't support Trump until AFTER the Biden administration bureaucrats met with him and told him they would ensure that they would only allow a small handful of foundation AI companies that they tightly regulated to exist. He was so horrified that he switched over.

a16z investments are mostly Cryptos and some AIs.

Andreesen loves Crypto and he hates that it's being regulated like mad (cause tons of scamming going on).

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by fallingknife on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:46AM (#43217371)
Tons of scamming goes on over email too and we don't respond by shutting down email services
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by saagarjha on Saturday March 01, 2025 @05:14AM (#43217853)
We don't shut down crypto, either. But if you scam people via crypto, then there are penalties, the same as there are for sending scams over email.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by hello_moto on Saturday March 01, 2025 @10:18AM (#43220077)
Coinbase is still operating.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by fallingknife on Saturday March 01, 2025 @10:35AM (#43220254)
The Biden admin tried to shut them down by suing them for being an unlicensed security exchange. And they did this even though the only time the issue has been ruled on by a judge it was determined that crypto is not a security.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by hello_moto on Saturday March 01, 2025 @12:27PM (#43221461)
Oh good, checks and balances work, unlike the current Admin
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by isthatafact on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:41AM (#43219634)
>>> Marc Andreesen didn't support Trump until AFTER the Biden administration bureaucrats met with him and told him they would ensure that they would only allow a small handful of foundation AI companies that they tightly regulated to exist. He was so horrified that he switched over.

That is the claim from Andreessen, and the way he told it sounded rather far-fetched. Has anyone else confirmed it?

Andreessen also claims (see Joe Rogan interview) that the US nuclear weapons testing program was some elaborate fake complete with fake movies of nuclear bomb tests. When someone makes such ludicrous claims, I tend to doubt anything else they say.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by intermerda on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:03AM (#43216705)
> Congratulations, you've been successfully propagandized to a point where you view people who don't vote the way you do as morally inferior.

Where did they say anything about moral inferiority?

> I'm sure that will help you persuade them in the future.

Why does this argument only work in one direction? Why can the conservatives mock liberals, "coastal elites", blue cities and states, and more than half of America endlessly and still win? Why

> Interesting that you ignore the fact that the previous president was mentally incapable of the job for increasingly long intervals as his term progressed, and was so incompetent on the Afghanistan withdrawal that he projected tremendous weakness that acted as an invite for Putin to launch a full scale assault less than a year later.

Ironic you talk about "successfully propagandized" earlier and are regurgitating right wing talking points.

> The moral inversion it takes to claim that the people willing to stand agains the Valley's intense social conformity "weak" is also revealing about how brainwashed you truly are. You're just part of the mob, and if you lived in a super conservative place, you'd be part of that mob too. Freethinking requires courage, and I see none of it in the typical SV limousine liberal. Just a bunch of millionaires who hate the billionaires they envy.

It takes special kind of mental gymnastics to end up supporting murderous dictators while talking about "free thinkers", "moral inversion", and "brainwashing". What did they teach you next, whatabouttism?

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by junon on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:27AM (#43216845)
I hate Trump because I'm not propagandized. I no longer have any patience for pro-Trump rhetoric tbh. He's going to get a lot of people killed.

Embarrassed to be an American today. You're on the wrong side of history.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:22AM (#43217226)
Two avoidable new wars under Biden. Insane departure from Afhaganistan. Was Trump in any way worse in foreign policy? I thought we returned to civil adults in the room again! I no longer have any patience for any non populist Democrats. Not serious political thinkers in any way.

We all saw when the DNC champagne socialists turned their their nose at Palestinian activists, this is not a serious Left wing movement by any intl standard. It’s overflow parking for elitethink. What good recent policy is even proposed? There’s nothing. Look elsewhere for inspiration because the USA Left is bankrupt intellectually

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by amluto on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:39AM (#43217319)
> Two avoidable new wars under Biden.

Which wars?

Ukraine could have been trivially avoided by Russia, as Ukraine did nothing to provoke the war except perhaps by the mere fact of its existence as a an independent country. But I assume you mean “avoidable by Biden.” How would Biden have avoided it?

What’s the second? Gaza? I give Biden approximately zero credit for competent handling of the situation, but that war was started by a surprise attack by one non-US party against another non-US party. Nobody asked the US’s opinion. I very much doubt that the US could have prevented that war by announcing a desire to annex Gaza.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by matwood on Sunday March 02, 2025 @02:14AM (#43228130)
Those are Russian bot talking points. Best to just ignore. Just like saying Ukraine started the current conflict and not so subtly removing all responsibility from Russia.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Sunday March 02, 2025 @04:53PM (#43235594)
Good of you to get the correct talking points back on track! Curious how well this strategy will work? Is there a single Pro Russian perspectives allowed in a critique of a war we pay for? Almost seems like a problematic monoculture. Alas this is primarily a tech site but I would expect SOME debate.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by junon on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:28AM (#43217255)
Holy shit I don't even know where to begin with you people. Whataboutism is wild, you can't see dictatorship staring you in the fucking face.

The US is doomed if you seriously believe the crap you spew out onto the internet.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Saturday March 01, 2025 @03:31AM (#43217275)
“whataboutism” is a weak and recent phrase that means literally nothing. Please engage with specifics.

Most Americans would not agree with a 1939 “ascendant dictator in America” narrative and yet you do. I wonder how the “you people” strategy works in your brain? I do not think of HN audience as separate to “my” people. Silly that you do the inverse.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by johnnyanmac on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:25AM (#43219500)
>Most Americans would not agree with a 1939 “ascendant dictator in America” narrative and yet you do.

Yes, I'm sure of that. Just as Germans in 1939 would also not agree with an "Ascendent dictator of Germany". `People are pretty good a rejecting inconvinent realities when they're moral compass is on the line.

>I do not think of HN audience as separate to “my” people.

And this is just a dishonest argument. Let's not play coy, thank you.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Sunday March 02, 2025 @05:08PM (#43235722)
Fascist prez didn't really ring well with USA voters during Kamala loss so I expect "you" people to just kind of burn out on the whole strategy. Simply the most likely scenario. The majority of the US voted for a fascist? Just reeks of midwit thinking to most people.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by goatlover on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:14PM (#43222599)
People are waking up now to the reality Trump is an aspiring autocrat. His core base might be so blinded by the cult of personality that they will follow a dictator, but the rest of us won't.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Sunday March 02, 2025 @05:08PM (#43235729)
Quite a conspiracy theory you have there. Wake up sheeple!
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by bdangubic on Sunday March 02, 2025 @05:14PM (#43235780)
some of us are woke :) we looked at all his living years, he’s been a public figure his entire life so easy to review his entire life&legacy. upon this review one can only conclude that he was sent down by God from heavens - a living messiah :) all ends up well as long as it is in his hands
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Sunday March 02, 2025 @05:15PM (#43235802)
kind of a schizopost?
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by saagarjha on Saturday March 01, 2025 @05:18AM (#43217880)
Intellectually bankrupt seems better than the "civil adults in the room" that are the very topic of this thread.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by aparticulate on Sunday March 02, 2025 @05:01PM (#43235663)
Biden 2020 was supposed to be civility prez, I don't think anybody thinks Trump is civil? Zelenskyy personality cult did need a dressing down but I also think it was a piece of a performance art, in all likelihood.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by goatlover on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:12PM (#43222573)
It's wild seeing life imitating art, but the recent Civil War movie had the sitting president serving his 3rd term as to what probably caused 19 states to secede, and Trump has talked about somehow finding a way to serve a third term. One could argue that's just typical Trump bluster, like him telling people they won't have to vote again, or blue states might disappear in year. But I'm becoming more convinced he actual intends to do these things.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by JPKab on Sunday March 02, 2025 @12:45AM (#43227782)
BluAnon in full effect I see.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by goatlover on Sunday March 02, 2025 @01:17AM (#43227906)
Which part, the Alex Garland movie, or the things Trump has done the past 40 days?
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by NicoJuicy on Wednesday March 05, 2025 @06:34PM (#43274280)
Euh, 6 January and letting them free. That's exactly what Trump is signalling. I'll be your get out of jail card.
Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by invalidname on Saturday March 01, 2025 @02:37AM (#43216920)
Thanks for giving a different perspective here. Unfortunately, I have to respectively disagree.

> was so incompetent on the Afghanistan withdrawal

That was based on a deal Trump made with the Taliban. I don't know if Trump would have botched it too. I would put that on Bush who f*ed up that war completely.

But ultimately it boils down to the moral inability of Americans to fight an uneven war. The problem here is the appeasement policy that unfortunately both sides suffer from.

> projected tremendous weakness

I think that's overblown. There are cases where it was true and others (such as Ukraine) where Biden showed how he can hold back Russia without risking a single US soldier. That was pretty good.

> Biden did nothing for Silicon Valley

The CHIPS act? Intel etc. got a ton of money. Battery manufacturing moved back to the states with multiple factories opening up.

He brought back manufacturing to the USA and gave a lot in that sense. The fact that he kept policies going (no tariffs etc.) was a huge benefit to tech which relies on stability and globalization.

> Freethinking requires courage, and I see none of it in the typical SV limousine liberal.

I think using language like that goes counter to free thinking. I despise Trump as a person, but I accept that some of the policies and stances aren't wrong. Unfortunately, discourse is at a level where we can't even have adult conversations on the issues without name-calling.

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by johnnyanmac on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:13AM (#43219407)
If you wish to discuss the topic, I'll happily explain every reason I hate the current administration. Of which there is many, and of which is bound in ojective stories I can point to with sources.

If you wish to instead accuse me of propaganda with no basis, thanks for justiying one of the reasons I hate the administration and their supporters. Mud slinging doesn't interest me in this day and age and your entire rant is not only baseless but has so many holes and inaccuracies that I'd recommend reading your history before trying to re-write such statements. .

Re:Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting by canadiantim on Saturday March 01, 2025 @09:23AM (#43219480)
This is exactly on point, thank you for saying it.