These features work on all the modern desktop browsers and on Android tho!

WebGPU isn't standardized yet. Hell, most of the features people complain about aren't part of any standard, but for some reason there's this sense that if it's in Chrome, it's standard - as if Google dictates standards.

Realistically, given the market share of Chrome and Chromium based browsers, they kind of do.

Because they set the terms of use of the SDK? You're not required to use it. You aren't required to develop for iOS. Just because Google gives it all away for free doesn't mean Apple has to.

Do you have a legal right to write software or run your own software for hardware you bought?

Because it’s very easy to take away a right by erecting aritificial barriers, just like how you could discriminate by race at work, but pretend you are doing something else,

I've never heard of such a thing. Ideally I'd like that, but I don't have such freedoms with the computers in my cars, for example, or the one that operates my furnace, or even for certain parts of my PC.

You aren't allowed to repair the "thing' because the software can detect you changed something and will refuse to boot. And whenever it suits the manufacturer, they will decide when the 'thing' is declared out of support and stops functioning.

I would say you are not an owner then, you (and me) and just suckers that are paying for the party. Maybe it's a lease. But then we also pay when it breaks, so it more of a digital feudalism.

No, obviously not. Do you have a right to run a custom OS on your PS5? Do you have a right to run a custom application on your cable set-top box? Etc. Such a right obviously doesn’t exist and most people generally are somewhere between “don’t care” and actively rejecting it for various reasons (hacking in games, content DRM, etc).

It’s fine if you think there should be, but it continues this weird trend of using apple as a foil for complaining about random other issues that other vendors tend to be just as bad or oftentimes even worse about, simply because they’re a large company with a large group of anti-fans/haters who will readily nod along.

Remember when the complaint was that the pelican case of factory OEM tools you could rent (or buy) to install your factory replacement screen was too big and bulky, meaning it was really just a plot to sabotage right to repair?

https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-servi...

Yes, I do. That was and continues to be a valid complaint, among all other anti-repair schemes Apple have come up with over the years. DRM for parts, complete unavailability of some commonly repaired parts, deliberate kneecapping of "Apple authorized service providers", leveraging the US customs to seize shipments of legitimate and/or unlabeled replacement parts as "counterfeits", gaslighting by official representatives on Apple's own forums about data recovery, sabotaging right to repair laws, and even denial of design issues[1] to weasel out of warranty repair just to name a few.

All with the simple anti-competitive goal of making third party repair (both authorized and independent) a less attractive option due to artificially increased prices, timelines to repair, or scaremongering about privacy.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/weakened-right-to-re...

https://www.pcgamer.com/ifixit-says-apples-iphone-14-is-lite...

[1] Butterfly keyboards, display cables that were too short and failed over time

No, it doesn’t - because you can simply not use the tools if you don’t want. You can just order a $2 spudger off Amazon if you want, you don’t need the tools at all.

It continues to be a completely invalid complaint that shows just how bad-faith the discussion about apple has become - it literally costs you nothing to not use the tools if you want, there is no downside to having apple make them available to people, and yet you guys still find a way to bitch about it.

Moreover, despite some “bold” proclamations from the haters… no android vendors ever ended up making their oem tooling available to consumers at all. You have to use the Amazon spudger on your pixel, and you will fuck up the waterproofing when you do your repair, because the android phone won’t seal properly against water without the tools either. IPX sixtywho!?

It’s literally a complete and total net positive: nothing was taken away from you, and you don’t need to use it, and it makes your life easier and produces a better repair if you want it. Apple went out of their way to both make the tooling available to normies who want to rent it or people who want to buy it for real. And people still bitch, and still think they come off better for having done so. Classic “hater” moment, in the Paul Graham sense. Anti-fanboys are real.

https://paulgraham.com/fh.html

Literally, for some people - the pelican cases with the tools are too big and heavy. And that’s enough to justify the hate.

Again, great example of the point I was making in the original comment: people inserting their random hobby horse issues using apple as a foil. You don’t like how phones are made in general, so you’re using apple as a whipping boy for the issue even if it’s not really caused or worsened by the event in question etc. Even if the event in question is apple making that issue somewhat better, and is done worse by all the other vendors etc. Can’t buy tooling for a pixel at all, doing those repairs will simply break waterproofing without it, and you’re strictly better off having the ability to get access to the tooling if you decide you want it, but apple offering it is a flashpoint you can exploit for rhetorical advantage.

I think the dirty little secret here is that an iPhone is just about the only phone, apart from maybe some of the really nice Google and Samsung flagships, that anyone wants to repair, because they're bloody expensive. Which is fine and dandy but then do kindly park your endless bemoaning of the subjects of e-waste and non-repairable goods, when Android by far and away is the worse side of that equation, with absolute shit tons of low yield, crap hardware made, sold, and thrown away when the first software update renders it completely unusable (if it wasn't already, from the factory).

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but once you tally up overpriced parts together with their oversized, heavy, expensive rental of tools that you don't need, you end up with a sum that matches what you would pay to have it repaired by Apple - except you're doing all of the work yourself.

A curious consumer who has never repaired a device, but might have been interested in doing so, will therefore conclude that repairing their own device is 1. Far too complicated, thanks to an intimidating-looking piece of kit that they recommend, but is completely unnecessary, and 2. Far too expensive, because Apple prices these such that the repair is made economically nonviable.

So yes, I still believe that this is Apple fighting the anti-repair war on a psychological front. You're giving them benefit of the doubt even though they've established a clear pattern of behavior that demonstrates their anti-repair stance beyond any reasonable doubt - although you dance around the citations and claim that I'm being unreasonable about Apple genuinely making the repair situation "better".

Futhermore, I'm not a fanboy or anti-fanboy of any company. The only thing I'm an anti-fanboy of are anti-consumer practices. If Apple changed some of their practices I'd go out and buy an iPhone and a Macbook tomorrow.

The fact that I pointed out that Apple is hostile against repair does not mean that I endorse Google, Samsung, or any other brand - they all suck when it comes to repair, yet you're taking it as a personal attack and calling me names for it.

It can be difficult to handle the intimation that maybe there is the mirror image of the "brainless apple sheeple" too. Haters exist - people who are not able to approach a situation fairly and are just relentlessly negative because they hate X thing too. Negative parasocial attachment is just as much of a thing as a positive one.

And when you get to the point of "literally making the tools available is bad because the pelican cases are too heavy" you have crossed that rubicon. I am being very very polite here, but you are not being rational, and you are kinda having an emotional spasm over someone disagreeing with you on the internet.

Yes, if you want OEM parts and you rent OEM tooling it's probably going to come close to OEM cost. That isn't discriminatory, if the prices are fair+reasonable, and objectively they pretty much are. $49 to rent the tools, and have them shipped both ways, etc, is not an unreasonable ask.

Not having a viable business model for your startup doesn't mean the world is wrong. It means you don't have a viable business idea. And yeah, if you are renting the tools as a one-off, and counting your personal time as having some value (or labor cost in a business), then you probably are not going to get costs that are economical with a large-scale operator with a chain operation and an assembly-line repair shop with repair people who do nothing but repair that one brand. That's not Apple's fault.

What we ultimately come down to with your argument is "apple is killing right-to-repair by being too good at repair and providing too cheap repairs such that indie shops can no longer make a margin" and I'm not sure that's actionable in a social sense of preventing e-waste. People getting their hardware repaired cheaply is good. Long parts lifetimes are good. Etc.

Being able to swap in shitty amazon knockoff parts is a whole separate discussion, of course. And afaik that is going to be forced by the EU anyway, consequences be damned. So what are you complaining about here?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

edit: Describing others as "bitching", "bad faith", and "hater", runs afoul of half of the guidelines on this site. That comment somehow isn't moderated, but mine is called out for crossing into flamewar?

Even if I hadn't, though, we need you to follow the rules regardless of what anybody else is doing, and the same goes for every user here. Pointing a finger at the other person isn't helpful.

As noxious as that whole thing is, it’s literally the law. I agree the outcome is horrifying of course… stallman was right all along, it’s either your device or it’s not.

And legally speaking, we have decided it’s ok to go with “not”.

Sure, as a SWE I'm not going to buy a computer unable to run my own code. A smartphone is an ergonomic portable computer, so I say no to iPhone and would like to remind others who didn't have a deep think into this about it.

Because as you described, the only alternatives that exist are terrible experiences for basically everyone, so people are happy to pay to license a solution that solves their problems with minimal fuss.

Any number of people could respond to “use Android devices with everything except firmware built from source and signed by myself” with the same question.

Normal users will not do this. Just because many of the people here can build and sign a custom Android build doesn't mean that is a viable commercial alternative. It is great that is an option for those of us who can do it, but don't present it as a viable alternative to the iOS/Google ecosystems. The fraction of people who can and will be willing to do this is really small. And even if you can do it, how many people will want to maintain their custom built OSes?

Unfortunately a lot of the "freedom" crowd think that unless you want to be an 80s sysadmin you don't deserve security or privacy. Or computers.

a maxim that seems to hold true at every level of computing is that users will not care about security unless forced into caring

with privacy they may care more, but they are easily conditioned to assume it's there or that nothing can be realistically be done about losing it

There are a couple caveats:

1. It is still a bit tricky for a non-technical person to install. Should not be a problem if they know somebody who can help, though. There's been some progress making the process more user friendly recently (e.g. WebUSB-based GrapheneOS installer).

2. There are some papercuts if you don't install Google services on your phone. microG [2] helps with most but some still remain. My main concern with this setup is that I can't use Google Pay this way, but having to bring my card with me every time seems like an acceptable trade off to me.

[1]: https://divestos.org/

[2]: https://microg.org/

I wouldn't bet on this long term, since it fully relies on Google hardware, and Google's long-term strategy is to remove your freedom piece by piece, cash on it, not to support it.

The real alternative is GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 and Pinephone, without any ties to greedy, anti-freedom corporations.

There are people who don't know how to use file explorer, new generation grows up in a world of iPhones without ever seeing file system. Any other bright ideas?