What was the upside of this design decision? Why did they decide to be different here?
The Mach E's front door handle things are practically at the window line to take advantage of being in the mirror turbulence area, a handle several inches down probably wouldn't be in it very much.
Pretty much all Teslas have recessed doorhandles.
The Mach E has buttons to open the doors. The Lightning has regular door handles.
The Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 have recessed door handles.
The Mercedes EQS has recessed door handles.
The Polestar 1 and 3 have recessed, but the Polestar 2 does not.
The Volvo XC40 has recessed handles. The XC30 and XC90 have regular handles.
VW's EVs tend to have regular door handles.
Seeing as how Teslas make up the majority of EVs on the roads in the US, and they all have recessed handles, by definition in the US the majority of EVs have recessed handles. By number of models, its kind of mixed but it seems there are more models with recessed handles than regular handles.
Hubris.
A lack of anyone to stop them from doing otherwise.
And to think, people demonize standardization and regulation...
center seat tesla trucks mean i cannot take an apprentice. Center seat tesla trucks also mean i cant test in a tesla truck for my license or any inspections. it means the entire truck has to be tested on a closed track to get your license, just like construction equipment.
Serial hybrid seems like a great solution for trucking, since you don't need to oversize the engine in order to cover high torque needs (the electric motors would handle that), and during flat highway drives the generator could top off the battery using a narrower RPM range.
Long distance trucking is also a place where I think green hydrogen fed fuel cell trucks could work, since range would a non-issue, and also the hinterlands, where long distance trucks go, is where most of the renewables are.
If the renewables can be fed to an electrolyzer nearby, which supplies a hydrogen fueling station nearby, then you don't need to build much transmission/transportation to get the hydrogen to the trucks.
This requires electrolyzer cost to drop a lot (and FC Semis to be available), but all the technology components of the system exist in some form.
Many actually have big radiators to dissipate energy regenerated while going downhill by their electric traction motors.
Hopefully, as batteries get less expensive this changes.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a39372219/se...
Here is one (I hope) that isn't paywalled: https://reneweconomy.com.au/fortescue-starts-work-on-world-f... Failing that try googling "infinity train battery". It was a popular story at the time. As the story says, at least two companies are doing it in Australia.
The amount of destruction these things can cause when they lose control of all that energy is impressive: https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2... and https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2... They can not be stopped in a controlled fashion once they get going. The latter one cost BHP $800M from memory.
Except, that isn't how it would have to work. It would make sense for the company to pay the driver for charging time. In BC a 400 mile drive would cost C$514 in diesel ($2/l, 40l/100km), or $112 in electricity (at 1.25kwhr/km and $0.14/kwhr), so presumably the driver could be paid $100 for the 30 min charging stop, and the company will still save $300 for each 400 mile leg.
Not a lorry driver so just asking.
You bring up a good point that fuel savings may be sufficient to compensate drivers for extra time with plenty left over.
I’m always scared when seemingly intelligent people disagree with math and facts.
And 30 mins of charging every 8 hours is unlikely to significantly change the delivery time anyway.
Companies are in the business of making money, if a private contractor is cheaper (and faster) than their in-house logistics who do you think is going to be axed?
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/werktijden/vraag-en...
However, they really should look for low hanging fruit and then try to expand out from there. Trucks that are stuck in stop-and-go traffic all the time are an obvious candidate (low MPG / high pollution per mile with diesel engines, and those applications have low aerodynamic drag and are a huge opportunity for regenerative braking).
I think commuter / local event busses are another obvious fit. I've started to see these around:
https://www.vanhool.com/en/vehicles/public-transport/battery...
Even though these are replacing rear-engine diesels, some of the components will be common with semis. It'll help bootstrap the large vehicle battery + motor supply chain and fleet management logistics at the very least.
One thing to note is that they're using standard form factors. There's no reason to couple the vehicle layout to changes in the power train.
My guess is that Tesla's trying to replay the luxury -> midrange -> economy playbook that they used to bootstrap the EV supply chain. I don't see how that strategy will work a second time, since the supply chain has already been bootstrapped.
I think you are very seriously underestimating the complexity and economics behind trucking logistics and what a nightmare this would become.
Long haul trucking is the worst fit for today's EV tech.
Building more freight rail and electrifying it is another option for (some) long haul transport that isn't discussed enough.
Most are, it's just that the electric part is generated by a diesel engine. That being said, they're already several times more efficient per ton than a semi is.
while technically correct, not a useful observation
Both seem really inefficient to me with our current technology.
They are often built with a single-person cab with windows on all sides and in some of them the seat, pedals, and steering column can pivot around so you can drive backwards without looking over your shoulder.
The man doesn't even know where earth IS anymore.
> "The second storyline is that battery swapping is also helping electrifying China truck sales. BNEF analyst Siyi Mi recently compiled data on all the battery-swappable vehicles sold in the country and found that while swapping remains a niche technology for passenger vehicles, almost half of all heavy battery electric trucks sold last year in China had swappable batteries. That’s up from 34% in 2021. Many of these trucks are operating in industrial sites, port warehouses, mines and steelmaking factories. Lighter commercial vehicles with swappable batteries also are being used in urban deliveries, an area where BNEF expects to see more growth as better economics and tightened emission requirements draw more attention to electric models. Long-haul trucking will be the last, and most difficult, segment to tackle."
https://about.bnef.com/blog/chinas-clean-truck-surprise-defi...
For private use, it is far more difficult. The battery is the single most expensive part of the car- who wants to drive off the lot, then two hours later trade that expensive part for one that is heavily used?
Unless the dealer or manufacturer runs all of the swapping stations, and the purchase of the car doesn't include the battery, the economics are terrible.
OTOH, if the consumer isn't paying the full price to own the battery, then the economics of swapping goes way down unless the consumer pays a hefty deposit on the battery.
Then, private sales become harder as you probably want to be able to authenticate that battery is what it is supposed to be, and not some third party knockoff.
But if you can't swap to a third party battery, the vehicle becomes worthless once those batteries are phased out.
Swapping vehicle batteries has been tried before and abandoned (I think in Israel maybe? I forget) because unless you are operating a commercial fleet where you are willing to invest in buying the extra batteries and owning them yourself (or signing a big fat contact with a manufacturer) it just doesn't make sense.
Who owns these batteries? Who owns these trucks? Who eats the cost on battery/truck degradation?
If I pull in with a battery that has 70% of it's original max capacity and get a brand new battery with 99% of it's capacity how do you fairly assess that value add to the truck?
Silly yes. The 90's vision of the skateboard platform has stuck with me a lot. I'd imagined rolling lounges & other passenger vehicles cabins being a way to start decoupling the car, reducing the number of batteries motors and wheels that a town or city had to own in net. The usage cycle of trucks is a lot higher, and the swappability just for sale of switching batteries seems silly, but I couldn't help but see at least one of the core problems of swappability being solved by disaggregation the compartment from the rest here.
But yeah, long haul was a stupid plan that would have never worked. Not without some massive batteries to kick the range way up to something like 800 miles and infrastructure to allow these trucks to charge overnight.
I just don't think the power density is there currently for trucks.
Would it help if instead of charging, do what you do with a toy car - replace the batteries?
They could then charge and be ready for the next truck.
Tesla won't want to because they won't want to deal with dead batteries. The trucking companies won't want to because they don't want to deal with dead batteries and the cost to own/operate such specific infra for just their trucks.
The former seems like part of the service, you deal with dead batteries by charging them up and then putting them in the next truck.
The latter is… trickier.
A trucking company presumably would not be happy if they stopped at a swap spot and got a battery that's only good for the next 200 mi because of normal battery degradation.
There's also now the problem of who owns the batteries that come off a truck - if the battery swap station is a generic service provider, that suggests that some battery network actually owns the packs themselves - does that mean that the swap station needs to keep that battery around until another participating truck company contracted with the owner of the pack comes around?
That seems very complicated.
Or maybe the swap station is the owner of the packs (think gas station chains) - in which case they can put the battery on any truck that comes next... but that means duplicative swap stations for every battery chain out there. There's only so much land accessible to highways... so even more complicated that way.
The "pull the battery out and charge it" part of the idea is oddly enough the simplest. The logistics and chain of responsibility is far more difficult.
You're right that it would take multiple swap stations on nearly any given route that doesn't go too far out of an interstate or frequently traveled highway. So smaller towns or out-of-the-way towns will likely be forced to pay higher costs to get the deliveries using a regular fuel-driven truck, at least until they can solve the EV drive distance issue(s).
I think the biggest point of contention over this will be when Mom-n-Pop stores start going under fast due to the barriers of entry to afford so many expensive, large, and very heavy batteries. That's not even considering possible requirements to use specific machines for safety reasons, which I imagine will also jump when Mom-n-Pop try to wing it.
Especially since batteries don't (typically) just end up damaged but rather degrade over time. One day the battery can hold 96% of it's original capacity, the next 90%. It's a natural and uneven process for batteries.
A battery that is unusable for trucking could still have a lot of value in a context where the energy density is less important. Infrastructure, for example. But making sure the incentives and ownership are calibrated correctly to make sure they get put into hands where they are useful might be a big problem.
Or maybe those weren't production cars?
Also, that demo was pretty much there to get some tax subsidies or something. They built the system to comply with the minimum to qualify, and once they got the money they didn't do anything else with it. Those cars weren't really production at all.
There are several problems with that, you end up with a lot more idle equipment than just the battery pack, you've got to either be constantly switching drivers or drivers have to be constantly switching cabs, you need facilities to swap trailers and charge cabs, etc etc etc.
But tractor trailers already have a convenient modularity built in, is all I'm saying.
The same dynamic limits battery swaps.
"Lot-tenders" generally refers to services that involve the management and coordination of truck movements within a large parking lot or a distribution center.
What do you think about natural gas generators? They could be cheaper and cleaner.
By the way 30% or so of London busses are diesel hybrid so it works although they are planning to replace them by zero emissions eventually.
- first callout was OTR longhauls. Musk clearly didnt want his trucks stuck as lot-tenders where they would work brilliantly, he wanted publicity on the road.
- longhauls cancelled because obvious infrastructure limitations. batteries and motors failing more frequently due to the load and the range. reports of using tesla consumer vehicle components in the drivetrain. switch to regional routes
- regional routes failing between AZ/CA due to thermal and performance issues. range issues.
- professional drivers hate these trucks. worse than international (truck brand). center-seating makes visibility, toll booths and logbook checks a chore. side mirrors are static and too high.
Musk needs to come back to earth. OTR (over the road, long hauls of 1800 miles) is a non-starter and will never work with current technology. professional drivers can not lose 30 minutes every 400 miles on these routes to charge, they will miss all their drop times.
make the tesla semi truck a lot tender. massive power to realign and arrange heavy trailers all day long in a parking lot or warehouse lot. bonus points: make the tesla semi truck a driverless lot tender since lot-tenders dont need a CDL.
EDIT: If you want to see something I think the actual trucking industry is getting excited about, check out Edison motors. They're running a hybrid diesel/electric design that would work wonderfully for things like clean-air city driving where the batteries are getting topped up at every stop and speeds are under 50mph, and a small diesel generator when the batteries need a charge. this is similar to how Great Western Rail in the UK runs their trains (just with batteries) and still supports a traditional truck drivetrain. Its designed to be punished from what i can see...the primary application is as a logging rig.
https://www.edisonmotors.ca/