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Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by takeda on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:31AM (#40212146)
> Musk needs to come back to earth. OTR (over the road, long hauls of 1800 miles) is a non-starter and will never work with current technology. professional drivers can not lose 30 minutes every 400 miles on these routes to charge, they will miss all their drop times.

Would it help if instead of charging, do what you do with a toy car - replace the batteries?

They could then charge and be ready for the next truck.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by cogman10 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:36AM (#40212222)
That'd work, but then the question is who owns and operates the switch out operation?

Tesla won't want to because they won't want to deal with dead batteries. The trucking companies won't want to because they don't want to deal with dead batteries and the cost to own/operate such specific infra for just their trucks.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by bee_rider on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:45AM (#40212350)
By dead batteries do you mean batteries that just need to be recharged, or damaged batteries that can’t be recharged?

The former seems like part of the service, you deal with dead batteries by charging them up and then putting them in the next truck.

The latter is… trickier.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by potatolicious on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @12:38PM (#40213002)
There's also the concern of who owns the batteries and who's responsible for their maintenance. There are lots of states of battery between "good for 100% of rated range" and "dead, doesn't work at all"

A trucking company presumably would not be happy if they stopped at a swap spot and got a battery that's only good for the next 200 mi because of normal battery degradation.

There's also now the problem of who owns the batteries that come off a truck - if the battery swap station is a generic service provider, that suggests that some battery network actually owns the packs themselves - does that mean that the swap station needs to keep that battery around until another participating truck company contracted with the owner of the pack comes around?

That seems very complicated.

Or maybe the swap station is the owner of the packs (think gas station chains) - in which case they can put the battery on any truck that comes next... but that means duplicative swap stations for every battery chain out there. There's only so much land accessible to highways... so even more complicated that way.

The "pull the battery out and charge it" part of the idea is oddly enough the simplest. The logistics and chain of responsibility is far more difficult.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by valrix on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @03:49PM (#40215476)
I think the "swap station" idea is pretty close to what we have now and would transition easiest. Fuel deliveries are typically dispatched on a route that will service more than one location (unless it's an emergency drop), so there's already a distributed refueling system in place to be updated.

You're right that it would take multiple swap stations on nearly any given route that doesn't go too far out of an interstate or frequently traveled highway. So smaller towns or out-of-the-way towns will likely be forced to pay higher costs to get the deliveries using a regular fuel-driven truck, at least until they can solve the EV drive distance issue(s).

I think the biggest point of contention over this will be when Mom-n-Pop stores start going under fast due to the barriers of entry to afford so many expensive, large, and very heavy batteries. That's not even considering possible requirements to use specific machines for safety reasons, which I imagine will also jump when Mom-n-Pop try to wing it.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by cogman10 on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @12:11PM (#40212639)
The trickier problem.

Especially since batteries don't (typically) just end up damaged but rather degrade over time. One day the battery can hold 96% of it's original capacity, the next 90%. It's a natural and uneven process for batteries.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by bee_rider on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @01:09PM (#40213356)
True!

A battery that is unusable for trucking could still have a lot of value in a context where the energy density is less important. Infrastructure, for example. But making sure the incentives and ownership are calibrated correctly to make sure they get put into hands where they are useful might be a big problem.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by neocritter on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @01:10PM (#40213373)
Weigh stations might work. Trucks increasingly roll through on scales that can weigh in motion, but there is a spot to pull off for inspections. This could be a service offered to trucking companies to help make up for loss of fuel taxes.
Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by kristjansson on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:36AM (#40212221)
Keep in mind even the battery in a Model S is half a ton, and integrated into the frame of the car...
Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by Rebelgecko on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:47AM (#40212382)
What about this? https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event

Or maybe those weren't production cars?

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by somerandomqaguy on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @12:42PM (#40213043)
NIO is the only car maker I know of that does battery swapping. Tesla's AFAIK were only a tech demo.
Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by vel0city on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @03:57PM (#40215581)
That event was over a decade ago. Those were not production cars, and production at Tesla has moved away from this model and into "structural packs" where the battery pack is major structural component of the frame.

Also, that demo was pretty much there to get some tax subsidies or something. They built the system to comply with the minimum to qualify, and once they got the money they didn't do anything else with it. Those cars weren't really production at all.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by saalweachter on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @11:46AM (#40212368)
I mean, technically you could swap out the entire cab every time it needed to be charged. The goal is to get the trailer to the destination, not the cab.

There are several problems with that, you end up with a lot more idle equipment than just the battery pack, you've got to either be constantly switching drivers or drivers have to be constantly switching cabs, you need facilities to swap trailers and charge cabs, etc etc etc.

But tractor trailers already have a convenient modularity built in, is all I'm saying.

Re:Tesla failing to deliver Semi-trucks on time to PepsiCo, ... by kristjansson on Tuesday April 30, 2024 @07:05PM (#40217553)
Tesla-semi-as-pony-express would be interesting, but isn't really compatible with _selling_ the actual truck as a product; no one wants to swap _their_ truck with someone else's, except the guys with above-average wear on their truck.

The same dynamic limits battery swaps.