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Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by fxtentacle on Monday December 04, 2023 @05:45PM (#38524237)
For me, the really interesting question is not if he's guilty - I had assumed as much - but if he will come out financially successful. That video had millions of views and a sponsorship deal. Call me a cynic, but it seems that some companies will deliberately break the law and pay the price if it's worth it, so why not independent hustlers.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by laborcontract on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:22PM (#38525793)
We're living in the age of advertisers hyperfixated on brand safety. I can't see any brand thinking it's a good idea to throw money at this guy. More attention is a good thing until you're OJ Simpson.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by jahsome on Monday December 04, 2023 @09:45PM (#38526459)
Will ridge wallet come crawling back? Heck no.

But in the world of influencers one of the primary currenciez is notariety, some cess pool like kick or rumble would gladly take the publicity, good or "bad."

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by smcin on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:22PM (#38525792)
A more hip headline would be "Feds hand YouTuber the ultimate demonetization for plane crash vid"
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by WillPostForFood on Monday December 04, 2023 @05:58PM (#38524379)
Legal fees alone are going to be many times YouTube revenue. Add lost wages for a half year in prison. Add future lost revenue from sponsors who don't want to be associated with this, and it has to be a huge financial disaster.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by ryandrake on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:12PM (#38524558)
Even if the legal fees weren't many times the revenue, I never understood why couldn't the justice system default to fines like "All income arising out of crime + $XYZ" for all crimes, so that the fine is never a cost of doing business?
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by mcmoor on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:15PM (#38525763)
I'd argue that it's shouldn't even be only income + $xyz, it's income * (1 / chance of succesful enforcement) to reduce companies that thought that as long as it's hidden enough you'll be safe. It'll be a lot more arbitrary though.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by paulryanrogers on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:43PM (#38524892)
Perhaps laziness? Determining which profits are due to a crime could be difficult to separate from legitimate activity. That said, they could write the law to claw back anything that's easily accounted for, and just use some approximations when that's impractical.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by autoexec on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:18PM (#38525285)
It doesn't even need to be an exact or accurate accounting of money made due to crime. The legal system could impose fines high enough to hurt regardless of where the money came from, and pretty much everyone agrees that they should because otherwise fines are just a cost of doing business. The fact that the legal system refuses to do that when it's so obvious that not doing it is harmful to everyone except criminal corporations is troubling.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by Deprecate9151 on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:52PM (#38525614)
The technical term for it is "disgorgement" and it does exist in some contexts. I agree it is shockingly absent in far too many.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by TeMPOraL on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:49PM (#38524970)
My guess: it's too expensive to keep track of what constitutes "income arising out of crime" for the statutory period / lifetime of the perpetrator, especially if it could spawn an endless stream of minor cases for whether any specific income is truly "arising out of crime".
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by beeboobaa on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @08:03AM (#38530179)
Easy fix, have the perpetrator pay for the investigation.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by glasshug on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:29PM (#38525848)
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by dataflow on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:21PM (#38525784)
Probably because it's not necessarily always a proportional punishment?

Like if you drive somewhere with a suspended license somewhere and make a million dollars as a result, should all that money be subject to seizure?

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by pavon on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:52PM (#38525609)
I thought that was what criminal forfeiture laws were supposed to be about. Is there are reason why they aren't routinely applied in cases like this? Seems to be a much more productive use than typical civil forfeiture.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by altairprime on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:35PM (#38524809)
What percentage of viewer income was due to the crime?
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by constantly on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:17PM (#38525770)
I presume this is hypothetical. A reasonable start would be to see the difference average views on a video and views on this particular video times as revenue per view.

Admittedly I’ve never heard of this guy and avoid most YouTube “creators” and it got a view out of me out of morbid curiosity and so I could speculate on whether it was pre planned.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by altairprime on Monday December 04, 2023 @09:28PM (#38526287)
That question, as posed, represents why this isn’t often done. It’s very difficult to determine the contributing revenue fraction when one illegal action is laundered among many. Seizure tends to be all or nothing as a result.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by rtpg on Monday December 04, 2023 @09:00PM (#38526065)
This is a thing (this is the whole thing about treble damages). Despite what people say on HN, "Fines are a cost of doing business" is more a statement of fact (running a business, you sometimes fuck up and pay for it), rather than a statement of intent (do things that get fined but make money off of it). For most people anyways.

If you run scam X and earn Y from that scam, then get caught doing X, it is extremely unlikely that you are walking away with a fine less than Y. The problem is of course maybe the feds only notice Y/2 or Y/10. There's some hand wringing about scam X earning you Y directly but helping to support scam Z in the future that you will do better (or legitimate businesses A,B,C that earn you Y * 1000). But there's a base principle, and "let's just fine off of overall revenue" things leading to "some case officer in Omaha lied on forms, so we will fine this bank $2 billion" is kinda silly[0].

But generally speaking illegal activity where you get caught is going to end badly for you. And illegal activity you get away with will end better for you, but that's true independent of the fee structure.

[0] the case officer might be part of a larger pattern. This is what discovery and investigations are for! Do enough work and you can prove that the earnings from the illegal activity is higher!

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by bdonlan on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:01PM (#38526953)
This is called disgorgement and is indeed frequently used for certain types of crimes (particularly financial crimes).
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by dzolob on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:17PM (#38525279)
Plus, and I’m speculating here, there might be a breach of contract or tos here and there due to illegal activities, so he might even have to return some or all revenues.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by pengaru on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:53PM (#38526018)
No chance for future lucrative film and book deals?

If this kind of thing becomes increasingly common in the "influencer" economy, this instance could be seen as Ground Zero making him an OG pioneer of sorts. That has to be worth something, for better or worse.

Six months prison time isn't very long after all, six months of average salary doesn't buy you anywhere near this level of fame.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by hackerlight on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:17PM (#38525771)
We have the benefit of hindsight. If he thought there was a 20% chance of being caught, then maybe 0.2*(legal fees + other consequences) < $profit + fame.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by duskwuff on Monday December 04, 2023 @05:58PM (#38524390)
A federal felony and a 6-month prison sentence, on their own, would almost certainly tip the scales to "not worth it". I wouldn't be surprised if there were also a disgorgement involved.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by mozman on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:06PM (#38524492)
It’s a big black mark on your reputation, it’s rarely worth it. He could have injured or killed someone for a video.

Crime doesn’t pay

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by dzhiurgis on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:14PM (#38525755)
> He could have injured or killed someone for a video.

I'm pretty sure you are more likely to kill someone driving to work today than crashing a plane in some random as forest.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by constantly on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:59PM (#38526059)
But you’re more likely to kill someone when the remote forest fire you sparked by intentionally crashing your plane grew and took out a bunch of firefighters and a village than you are to kill someone driving to work.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by goles on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:16PM (#38526670)
Killing someone driving to work so you can pay for rent/mortgage/groceries is somewhat different than putting Go Pros on your car and deliberately crashing into someone so you can pay for rent/mortgage/groceries.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by paulpauper on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:56PM (#38525070)
It’s a big black mark on your reputation, it’s rarely worth it.

Maybe if he was applying for a job at the FAA, as a pilot, or as a school teacher. but for a professional youtuber, not so much.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by TerrifiedMouse on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:13PM (#38525237)
It does close those doors though.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by ta1243 on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:11PM (#38524545)
Large companies commit crime constantly and make it pay, the fines they incur are simply counted a cost of doing business
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by adrr on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:30PM (#38524743)
They don't regularly commit crimes though. They commit regulatory violations. There's a big difference. Like getting a parking ticket versus being convicted for a felony. Ones that get convicted like Purdue Pharma are fined so heavily they are forced to close. Or they could just be banned from doing business like Arthur Anderson when they had to surrender their CPA licenses and forgo rights to practice.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by titzer on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:35PM (#38524807)
Steal a loaf of bread, do hard time. Steal $5 here and there millions of times over from unsuspecting customers with completely made-up junk fees, and it's an FTC fine...after years of haggling in court. The magic of indirection!
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by boeingUH60 on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:46PM (#38524945)
Nobody does hard time for stealing a loaf of bread, but sure keep ranting..
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by evan_ on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:02PM (#38525134)
Tell that to Jean Valjean.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by BobaFloutist on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:41PM (#38526829)
I don't know how to tell you this, but Jean Valjean is a fictional character.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by ta1243 on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @03:01AM (#38528177)
Based on real punishments. And people had their hands chopped off for petty theft too.

The historical element is more relevant. In the UK (and perhaps the US) in 1723 it was made illegal to hunt a rabbit - punishable by death.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by evan_ on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @04:09PM (#38536934)
fine- Aladdin, then
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by BobaFloutist on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @05:37PM (#38550448)
Fair enough
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by InCityDreams on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:52PM (#38525604)
3rd strike law? I knew someone that did 14 days for stealing a frozen chicken. Repeat offender...the judge may have been fed up for all the other crap from previous and decided to go full max.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by financltravsty on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:51PM (#38525009)
USSR? China? Malaysia? Saudi Arabia? Iran? USA if the police and DA want to make an example?
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by adrr on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:08PM (#38525185)
I doubt anyone does any jail time for stealing bread unless they are habitual offender(multiple felony convictions) or its aggravated theft(eg: by force/violence). Court cases are public so feel free to prove me wrong.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by financltravsty on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:38PM (#38525474)
Todd Hutchinson (bread, candy, and a radio -- U.S.A), Elkeno Wallace (hot dog buns -- Bahamas), Jean Valjean (self-evident), numerous gulag victims (see: Solzhenitsyn), unnamed father who got his hand and foot chopped off for stealing a bag of flour in Syria, etc.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by duskwuff on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:49PM (#38525582)
> Jean Valjean (self-evident)

Jean Valjean is a character in a novel, not a real person, and is about as relevant to this discussion as a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by financltravsty on Monday December 04, 2023 @09:44PM (#38526447)
Apparently not self-evident!

A.k.a Eugène Vidocq

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by mkl on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @02:53AM (#38528150)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Fran%C3%A7ois_Vido... says he stole a lot of money from his parents' bakery, but wasn't imprisoned for that (though was for plenty of other crimes).
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by financltravsty on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @12:44PM (#38534276)
Yes, he was a criminal since 14 (maybe earlier) -- facing his first stint at that age. It's debatable whether his reputation followed him in those days, having bounced around towns and cities so much. But he did steal bread later on in his life to -- if Hugo is to be accepted a reliable witness -- feed his family at the time. For this he was imprisoned almost immediately, leading to the creation of Jean Valjean.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by ponector on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:27AM (#38529560)
From the past: USSR applied a death sentence for stealing grains from the already harvested field.

Nowadays Taliban do hands amputation as punishment for stealing(not sure about stealing bread, though).

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by financltravsty on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:48PM (#38524965)
Fraud, conspiracy, and wage theft are the common ones that companies commit every day.

How many times have people been fraudulently misled about the scope and responsibilities of their roles? How many times have companies misclassified workers or denied overtime pay? How many times have companies lied about their products and services? How many times have big tech companies conspired to keep wages down? How many private equity and pharmaceutical companies have engaged in profiteering?

They regularly commit crimes. Though the definition of crime is constantly being patched with loopholes by lobbyists and other well-connected jackals. The Overton window keeps on shifting. It's just a power battle between people more powerful than you.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by closewith on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:26PM (#38525822)
Crime often pays. That's part of why it's so popular.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by gorgoiler on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:16PM (#38526668)
I agree with you of course but I wonder how wise it is for governments to follow the strategy of felonies being irrevocable black marks?

That is to say if we rely on the permanent reputation taint as a deterrent then once you’ve been tainted are you not now much more likely to go do more harmful, felonious things?

I don’t know much about felonies though — perhaps they can be expunged after X years of good behaviour?

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by zlg_codes on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:41PM (#38527173)
Tell me what 6 months in a cage and financial ruin will do to teach someone about a victimless crime.

Justice is not in play here. The punishment should match the crime.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by blackoil on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @01:40AM (#38527796)
> Tell me what 6 months in a cage and financial ruin will do to teach someone about a victimless crime.

Don't do victimless crimes. If you have already done it, don't cover it up. And if you have to do it all, don't do it stupid.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by zlg_codes on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @01:47AM (#38527816)
Yeah that's complete BS. They don't own us, nor are they entitled to any particular respect or behavior.

Their rule is firm as long as people allow themselves to be ruled.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by ponector on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:30AM (#38529587)
Do you think this youtuber should not be punished with prison time?

So any other kid can do the same knowing they will not be punished?

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by zlg_codes on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @03:49PM (#38536715)
No, I don't. Lecture the guy about how to do it correctly, maybe make him pay for the pollution he caused or something.

Locking him away solves nothing.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by olyjohn on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @06:52PM (#38551098)
Lecture him about doing what correctly? Tell him how to fly an illegal airplane, better fake a plane crash, cut up the plane and throw it in the trash to cover it up, lie to the FAA, break regulations, potentially endanger people's lives, and lie to millions of people about it for views on YouTube? Then pay for the $100 in fuel that he spilled, that can't really be cleaned up anyways? This guy already has no respect for anybody, what makes you think he'll listen to a "stern lecture?"
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by jbreckmckye on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:56AM (#38529758)
He will also never fly again.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by JoeAltmaier on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @04:13AM (#38528555)
Being an entitled dickhead, endangering the public and flaunting basic rules of decent society - pretty much in the 'don't do it' column. Worth it? If your ethics are worthless an argument could be made. But there's no conversion between character and cash; it's a null set.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by tokai on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:59PM (#38525105)
Thats assuming that yt pays out and his sponsors doesn't sue him.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by fieryskiff17 on Monday December 04, 2023 @07:01PM (#38525123)
YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED TO ME IN PRISON - STUNT GONE WRONG (SEXUAL)
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by ugh123 on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:50PM (#38524989)
I doubt its anything that can beat 6 months in jail
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by paulpauper on Monday December 04, 2023 @06:55PM (#38525058)
For me, the really interesting question is not if he's guilty - I had assumed as much - but if he will come out financially successful. That video had millions of views and a sponsorship deal. Call me a cynic, but it seems that some companies will deliberately break the law and pay the price if it's worth it, so why not independent hustlers.

given all the media attention and the general frivolity of the matter, that answers it. A tiny sentence at prison camp for a few months makes it worth it for a career of earnings and buzz.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by madeofpalk on Monday December 04, 2023 @08:50PM (#38525993)
How much money would you take to spend 6 months in jail?
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by blackoil on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @01:43AM (#38527808)
If I can choose it to be a Norwegian prison, may be 100-200k USD. I always wanted to take a self-discovery retreat but can't commit to it.
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by wruza on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @02:46AM (#38528115)
Depends on a jail. Some are more like resorts/rehabs compared to others. US jails for 6-month crimes aren’t particularly bad, afaiu. Personally I’d take around $200k too for a US jail, assuming I have nothing to do for half a year and there will be no social/legal consequences that matter.

Disclaimer: I wouldn’t commit a crime to make money/time tradeoff, only a hypothetical experimental exchange with no real danger to anyone.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by Reubachi on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @09:33AM (#38531191)
This "what if" is not realistic, because you have the retainer of "there will be no social/legal consequences that matter".

A felony prevents you from getting a job. Obviously being hyperbolic but you know that the conviction is as much a punishment as the incarceration.

Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by tw04 on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:49PM (#38526896)
Is YouTube actually letting him monetize it? I didn’t think you could make money off a video of yourself committing a crime?
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by dvngnt_ on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:33PM (#38527128)
the crime was the cover-up tho
Re:YouTuber sentenced to 6 months in prison for obstructing ... by jahewson on Monday December 04, 2023 @11:25PM (#38527082)
Demonetized.