I found my dream house: incredible view, 20 minutes to skiing (a lifelong passion), warm enough and with enough space to garden sustainably, quiet, close enough to the city, great price and interest rate.

Unfortunately nearly EVERYONE on the street is 20-30 years older than us, with very different lifestyles and interests. We’re “friendly” with them, but there’s no real community there. Housing costs have skyrocketed and inventory is nonexistent, so even the people who have expressed interest in moving closer are prevented from doing so.

Not really sure what to do. This is the only thing missing from the life we want.

So you either learn Bridge and become the favored "kid" around and suddenly have opinions about AARP, or you socialize online, or you move.

My friendship circles aren't at the kids stage yet, but we've got difference way of ensuring we stay in touch. For one of them we have a weekly Wednesday night boardgame hang. It's extremely rare everyone goes, but usually you get at least half a dozen. For another friend circle we have a Discord, if any of us finds an event we're interested in, we post it there and see if anyone fancies joining, usually some do.

It may be that we lack strong collective ties but basically all of my good friendships are sort of isolated from each other.

Much easier and more rewarding to spend time with one person at a time.

I think it comes down to if you live to work, or work to live.

I moved to a small mountain town (10k people) that is bursting with 30-somethings who don't want to live the city grind anymore. People live here because skiing, mountain biking, hiking, camping and paddling are the life priority. Of course also pot lucks, dinners, parties and social events.

Everyone just finds whatever job that enables them to do those things, and the priority is life, not work. Working online is so common place now you can still earn a good salary if choose.

Hardly anyone works five days a week. Tons of people only work six months a year (ski the rest of the year!)

25 minutes from a great ski hill (that has no cell service), 5 minute ride to world-class mountain biking, 5 minute walk to a stunning lake for swimming/paddling.

Houses here cost 1/3 or 1/4 of what they do in a big city.

Think about the kind of life you want to live, and make it a priority.

My whole point is to seek out places where non-wealthy people can do it. Think smaller, think out of the way, think less development. No cell service at the ski hill, dirt road to drive up there, etc. etc.

Season pass is less than $1000, everyone has duct tape on their ski gear, etc.

It may not be popular to say on this site, but there is an issue with living in places like that though... if you're not white, it's going to be really rough going for you, even in "blue" states. I say this as a non-white person who grew up in rural America. The racism is off the charts, you will experience it in every facet of your life, which is really unfortunate because there are a lot of beautiful rural locations in this country that would otherwise be inhabitable if it weren't for that major issue.

Also, cool blog!

Heck, there are a TON of incredible ski resorts that are in a town of less than 10k just North of the border

https://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/best-small-ski-resorts...

They're no Rocky Mountains, but the Porcupine Mountains are up there and still pretty nice. And Lake Superior is right there also, as well as a bunch of waterfalls. And at night you can see the Milky Way.

Some places to ski up there: https://localfreshies.com/upper-peninsula-skiing/

Not a lot of jobs up there though, that I could tell. If I moved up there I'd have to work remote for sure.

Although some places up in the UP seem pretty close to that. Ironwood, MI for example, has 4 ski resorts within 15 miles of it, and doesn't seem to have a whole lot else happening there (we stayed there as a base of operations to go to the Porcupine Mountains though).

From Wikipedia: "While originally an iron mining town, the area is now known for its downhill skiing resorts, including Big Powderhorn, Black River, Snow River, Mount Zion and Whitecap as well as its cross country skiing at the Wolverine Nordic Trail System and the ABR Nordic Center."

And salaries are also lower. People don't move to the big city because they want to live there. They go there to study and then to make money so that they can afford any kind of real estate in their home town.

> Everyone just finds whatever job that enables them to do those things, and the priority is life, not work.

The condition of your quote above is that you already own real estate, which isn't true for but a few from the younger generations. Or that you live with your parents until you're 60 years old. Other than that, the deal is "get the hell out" and you're only welcome back if you can purchase some real estate.

It's true what you say about working online though, but then suddenly the whole world is open to you.

Yes, they are. But it's fine because we've all stepped out of the rat race, and the goal of our lives is not simply to earn more money, or as much as possible. The goal of our lives is to live more, so that's what we do.

None of my friends has a new car, or phone, or even a TV. We all have used skis and duct tape on our clothes. We are not "rich" in the money sense.

We also don't work much, and ski and mountain bike a lot.

> The condition of your quote above is that you already own real estate

Not at all. Of all the 30-somethings I know that live here, none of them lived here more than 5 years ago, they all bought in the last 5 years.

Houses here cost a lot less than bigger cities, and it is completely possible to buy a house on a single income. My partner works 4 days a week and bought a 4 bed/2 bath house less than 5 minutes walk from the main street. She saved for the deposit herself, and met the mortgage requirements on her single income.

> suddenly the whole world is open to you

Well, yes. That's why we choose to live in a quaint little mountain town where we can ski for half the year and work as little as possible.

Most people aren't in the rat race because they have an insatiable greed. They are there because they are desperate to have a roof over their head. If they can sort it out, almost everybody will be cool with chilling with a barbecue and riding quads in the woods instead of preparing a powerpoint to suck up to the boss.

> Not at all. Of all the 30-somethings I know that live here, none of them lived here more than 5 years ago, they all bought in the last 5 years.

That's what I'm getting at. You and your friends moved in because you could. You either had some real estate money from elsewhere to use to get established, or big city salaries to pay for cheap real estate there. The people born there who don't have real estate have to get the hell out (not because of people moving in), and go to a big city to try making some wealth to one day purchase real estate.

If you're born in a small town you usually have no chance of making enough money in the small town to purchase for a home in the small town you were born. So people move away, and then when they are finally established money-wise some 20 years later, they've lost connection with that small town they were born in, and instead shop around for where to live.

Out perspectives are different because I used to be in the rat race, and I used to believe it wasn't possible to get out, and I didn't understand how or why people could ski half the year and not work much and still make ends meet.

I've been doing it myself now since 2009 (taking years completely away from work to drive around the world even) and so I not only understand that it is possible, I live it first hand every day.

> A new phone is less than a months rent, so is a TV. A new car is cheap compared to real estate. So those things are far from a marker of wealth.

I think this is one of the major things that people don't understand when it comes to saving money, spending less and working less. This is where the whole "Don't drink a coffee every day and you'll be set".

The reason I bring up those things is because I literally don't earn enough money to have them. If I had those, I would have to work more. I'm right on that line. And for me, not having them means more freedom from work, so I choose not to have them. So do many, many other people in this little mountain town.

> Most people aren't in the rat race because they have an insatiable greed. They are there because they are desperate to have a roof over their head. If they can sort it out, almost everybody will be cool with chilling with a barbecue and riding quads in the woods instead of preparing a powerpoint to suck up to the boss.

In my experience, while that sounds like it makes sense, it is not true. I give talks and seminars about how I'm able to spend less, take years off work and have grand adventures around the world. I go into great detail about the financials of it all, and what a person would need to do to be able to afford something similar.

Then without fail I have ten people tell me to my face they can't afford it, while making car payments, phone payments, using every streaming service, eating out 5 nights a week and whatever else. People want all those conveniences, and going to work "full time" is the only way to get it. So they do. They don't want to cook their own food, chop their own firewood and buy used things.

> You either had some real estate money from elsewhere to use to get established, or big city salaries to pay for cheap real estate there

No we did not. We had neither of those things. We didn't hack the market in any way. Everyone works a pretty ordinary job for this area, and they can afford an ordinary house for this area. Again, in the same way we don't have car payments, none of us has a big new house either - because we don't want those things.

> The people born there who don't have real estate have to get the hell out (not because of people moving in), and go to a big city to try making some wealth to one day purchase real estate.

That is not true at all. The dental hygienist who cleaned my teeth today has lived here her whole life. She's just turned 40, has a 4 year old, bought a house a few years back.

You're on the outside not understanding how it actually works, and I get that. It made absolutely no sense to me either, and I spent years thinking "I wish I could do that.. too bad I can't". But actually I could.

I feel like this is the standard Reddit meme that is on the front page every day that says "You're telling me I have to go to work, commute, grocery shop, cook, clean, maybe have half an hour to myself and do it all again tomorrow? Shoot me now". If you choose that life, then yes, that's correct. But there are other choices out there.

A significant number certainly do.

Cities are the only place that some people have a chance of finding like-minded people.

More like the opposite.

Perhaps you think that because you live outside a big city and so you’re experiencing sampling bias

I think this depends on your definition of "near." If it's less than a 10 minute walk to your friend, you can meet to hang out for 15 minutes just because your free time happened to line up. Heck, you can do yard work together and chat while doing it!

I understand I am very privileged, but we actually made effort to live near each other. Well, it definitely helps that it's a dense neighbourhood of an actual city and not a suburb. It's hard to plan it out, but worth it.

Strategy wise if you're unattached and have free time, making commutes to events and planned activities is still a more effective way to make friends.

The question is whether the benefits are worth it.

apologies for being pedantic, but the article literally starts off with a screenshot of the Live Near Friends app which shows that you're doing it exactly right in their terms, because they're talking about living a 5-minute walk away. likewise, that's the goal of the app:

This August, Levin launched Live Near Friends, a site that helps people live within a five-minute walk of a close friend or family member.

500m is over 0.3 miles. That's certainly possible in rural locations, but its very much not typical of places people live outside of “dense cities”.

> In a lot of the USA, living within a 5 minute walk of your friends means they are "1 or at most 2 next door neighbors down the street".

This is true in a lot of the USA by geographical area, but not a common experience (exactly because this fact means virtually no one lives there.)

Suburbs are typically around 2,000 people per square mile, or about 150 people within a 500m radius.

I think of where I grew up: A very dense city, where streets are narrow, easy to cross, and pre-teens can move around with not just lack of fear, but major convenience. My mother had 4 siblings: All with their families, living in their own apartments. But every apartment was within a 5 minute walk: I could see the other buildings from our building's front door! So if someone needed babysitting, or just had to run random errand, children could be dropped off easily: Cousins almost become brothers when you see them every couple of days anyway.

This was also great for organizing activities with classmates. Not only we got to see each other on the street at random, as we did different errands, but organizing to meet in some bench was trivial. RPGs in the weekend? No problem, as a 15 minute walk catches most of the high school's families.

Now, in the US suburbs, socialization is more about online gaming, because the number of classmates a 14 year old can reach conveniently is pretty low: You could fit an apartment building with 16-20 families in the space that my suburb dedicates to 2. Access to 10 times the people sure makes living next to a friend much more likely! And since drivers aren't needed to get anything done, a lot of things that are commitments in the suburbs just disappear or are easy to move, as another neighbor can take Timmy to the soccer game, as they also have another kid going to the game anyway, and Timmy can walk himself to the neighbor's door with no hassle.

Transit time, and the total dependence of children, are a curse that can be avoided, but we have to do a lot of urban rebuilding for that.

I don't live in the US, but I do wonder what that has done to your social fabric. As well as making much of downtown flattened and made into parking lots for businesses. It is the first thing I notice jumping into any random US town in Street View; such wide spaces between every business on Main St. Who would ever walk there and chance upon a friend when you just dump the car outside and go into the shop or restaurant.

I dream of owning a plot of land in the countryside and starting a neighbourhood there with my friends.

that's why it's only a dream

At some point we've decided instead to live behind locked doors in fear of our neighbors. I see little reason to blame suburbia or city living arrangements for that.

And yeah, I definitely had friends that I mostly only saw during activities (sports, band, scouts, etc.) they were still good and close friends. Spending over a decade of at least one night a week together tends to make people pretty close.

Adam Curtis made a great documentary that explores this: Century of the Self https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

All that may make it harder to just "bond with the neighbors", as some in these comments suggest.

What most people do is have a lot of "commitments" hanging in the air in their future calendars, so that they can pick what pleases them in the moment. If they're expected at another event, they can blame the full schedule. Not meeting an "old friend" because you have to go do your hobby or celebrate your cousin's kid's birthday usually just means you didn't want to meet that person. When there's a will there's a way. You can always slot in some time if you really want. People spend huge amounts of time watching Netflix, scrolling social media and such. Everybody has time, unless they're a sailor on a nuclear submarine.

There is some variation between age groups. The older people I know are very much wrapped up in their work. The younger ones not always so much.