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Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by ncallaway on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:00PM (#36621940)
Maybe the facts will bear out that there’s a case here, but my default position is one of skepticism.

I guess one takeaway for me is if you don’t want your competitor to hire a bunch of your former employees, don’t make a bunch of your employees former employees.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by mikeyouse on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:23PM (#36622307)
If Musk were a little less obnoxious when talking about the people he fired, he might engender a little more goodwill on this type of suit.. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0YH3xBaQAAjs3L?format=jpg&name=...
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by sergiotapia on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:11PM (#36622098)
The suit claims this goes beyond hiring former employees. It also claims stolen secrets, codebases and digital assets. Wouldn't put it past The Zucc.

Regardless, Threads is the same old tired censorship BS as Facebook/Instagram. There's examples of people following someone and they get a "Fact Check" alert. We now know those fact checks are bullshit. It's not going to kill Twitter.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by tracerbulletx on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:14PM (#36622144)
Twitter doesn't have a single trade secret or important technology worth stealing. Replicating it is a social problem, not a technical one.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by boo-ga-ga on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:17PM (#36622210)
Especially for Meta that runs far more popular apps
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by ksaj on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:31PM (#36622495)
Also, I read that threads is connected to the technology behind Instagram, which is why they can share data back and forth. If you think about it, Instagram already has a fair amount of the technology well in place, for posting images, text, and videos of a limited length.

Given how long that code base has been alive, it seems unreasonable to think they could simply "wedge" Twitter code in to replace assets they already own without completely blowing things up.

They've likely been working on it for a while, and now is the time to pounce.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by sergiotapia on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:36PM (#36622582)
I agree with you. I wonder what they'll bring out during the lawsuit.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by nubinetwork on Thursday July 06, 2023 @11:35PM (#36626773)
I've written a twitter clone in PHP once, it's not hard. Throw in some Ajax to auto refresh, and you'd have something similar to what they have been using this whole time.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by fomine3 on Thursday July 06, 2023 @11:54PM (#36626891)
It's easy to handle 100 users. It's difficult to make it (timeline, search, and other stuff) work for 10e7 users (though Meta already do).
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by nubinetwork on Friday July 07, 2023 @05:17AM (#36629199)
Money and hardware. It's not like every other website doesn't have growing pains.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by makestuff on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:12PM (#36622114)
Didn't Twitter open source a large portion of the code base? Seems like that isn't going to help their case.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by ksaj on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:38PM (#36622602)
I don't know the specifics, but the license included with that code will specify what can and can't be done with it. Not all open source is free to use in your own code base. Sometimes it is open sourced for review purposes.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by JohnFen on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:18PM (#36623205)
> Sometimes it is open sourced for review purposes.

Huh? I'm not aware that it's possible to open source something without, you know, making it OSS. Am I mistaken, or are we talking about two different meanings for "open source"?

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by ksaj on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:34PM (#36623417)
Sorry, you are right. The issue I was thinking about is that there are different OSS licenses, and they have different requirements for use. Attribution and open sourcing any changes you make to the original code base are an examples.

The agreements for opening code up for review purposes only is indeed not OSS, despite the word 'open' often being used there.

I started off sound, then diverged. The part of Twitter that was open sourced will have a license spelling out what you need to do (if anything) in order to use the code. The review part is a different thing.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by brasic on Thursday July 06, 2023 @10:25PM (#36626263)
I assume OP was referring to “source available” schemes where the source is published or sometimes selectively disclosed but not licensed for anything other than review, ie you lack the right to run or copy it.

Needless to say, it’s not accurate to call that “open source”.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by mrguyorama on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:35PM (#36622563)
Nah, they released a bunch of the piping that goes around an ML model, but that's very boilerplate stuff to anyone with python data science experience. It's like if you made calculators and "open sourced" one by releasing the code that reads keypresses and does CPU scheduling. Like yeah, those are things a calculator does but not only is it code everyone else in the business could expect to write themselves in a couple sprints but it's also exactly NOT the magic sauce.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by smolder on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:29PM (#36622440)
It also doesn't help that the basic functionality of Twitter can be duplicated in a weekend by a junior dev, and has been many times. What novel idea can be stolen from Twitter? Everyone already lifted the hashtag idea ~15 years ago.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by nicolas_17 on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:18PM (#36622224)
No, I would definitely not call that a "large portion".
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by misterpigs on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:14PM (#36622160)
FACT CHECK:

They are usually _not_ bullshit.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by smoldesu on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:16PM (#36622184)
> It also claims stolen secrets, codebases and digital assets. Wouldn't put it past The Zucc.

You wouldn't put it past Zuck? Friendly reminder to everyone that Tesla knowledgeably violated GPL for years until they were forced into compliance: https://www.theregister.com/2018/05/21/tesla_inches_toward_g...

I don't trust for a second that Elon's team knows what they're talking about here.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by sergiotapia on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:38PM (#36622603)
The Zucc's shinanigans and backstabbing is so famous they made an award winning, and fan-favorite movie about it!
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by smoldesu on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:51PM (#36622817)
Him and Jobs both. The way things are headed now, I suspect the Elon biopic will give them all a run for their money.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by jimmygrapes on Friday July 07, 2023 @12:56AM (#36627333)
Please cast Kevin Durant for the role
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by Timon3 on Friday July 07, 2023 @02:35AM (#36628001)
Ms money is still on character actress Margo Martindale.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by JohnFen on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:51PM (#36622822)
Both Zuck and Musk are unreliable people who can't be taken at face value. I wouldn't put any level of shenanigans past either of them.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by 28304283409234 on Friday July 07, 2023 @02:18AM (#36627903)
What has that fact about Tesla have to do with the opinion about Zuck?

Nothing.

Diversion is what-about-ism.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by danpalmer on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:46PM (#36622737)
As an engineer this doesn’t pass even a cursory look. Entirely different brands, tech stacks, and the products just work differently. What can they possibly have taken.

I dislike Musk/Zuck as much as anyone, but I do believe that Meta can build a Twitter clone in 6 months on their infrastructure, and with their product folks.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by 3cats-in-a-coat on Friday July 07, 2023 @03:25AM (#36628361)
You have to wonder about Elon Musk's "first principle" thinking if he lashes out in such basic ways that defy basic engineering intuition.

Twitter's source code is valuable to Twitter, much like Twitter's engineers and their institutional knowhow were valuable to Twitter (before Musk fired them by the thousands).

But outside Twitter, taking their code and assets and trying to awkwardly graft them onto Meta/Instagram's stacks would not only not help, but actually slow them down and cause the product's functionality and stability to suffer.

Twitter's layoffs represent pure loss to Twitter, and much less gain to anyone else. Trying to spin it as if the nature of Twitter's operation is some big valuable secret is such cringe coming from leadership that supposedly prides itself on being technical and hands-on.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by danpalmer on Friday July 07, 2023 @04:58AM (#36629090)
Musk doesn't value people – this is apparent from all of his businesses, he doesn't care about work life balance, inclusive hiring, etc.

From this, it does follow that if you've got some secret-sauce at your company, and it's NOT your employees and their experience, then it must be something else. If you're Twitter, then it's probably The Algorithm, or code printed out onto reams of paper. After all, that's what makes the money right?

Except as is obvious to most companies, it's not. The people, the shared understanding, the experience, the company culture, and even the context of the world that the product is a part of – these are all far more important than the actual code, and where any long-term successful company focuses their efforts.

To put it in terms Musk might understand, product and engineering teams are "stage 0" for a software company, they are the machine that builds the machine.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by 3cats-in-a-coat on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:02PM (#36622970)
The likelihood of "stolen codebases and assets" is zero. Meta has an existing infrastructure that can handle 10x the traffic that Twitter has, and which is completely different than Twitter's stack.

As for the Threads app, that's a job any average web dev can have a rough prototype of in a day. The rest is iteration and refinement.

The entire mail is 100% BS. Also, there's no suit. There's a threat of a suit, which will likely not materialize as there's no chance of winning it.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by drumhead on Friday July 07, 2023 @02:54AM (#36628158)
It gives people a choice, if they want the more moderated experience they can go with threads, if they want a more free for all then Twitter. Competition is a good thing.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by barrysteve on Friday July 07, 2023 @03:19AM (#36628328)
Stolen secrets is a weird one as Elon has said patents are for cowards and kept SpaceX tech out of patents for fear of nation-state actors stealing secrets.

He knows how to keep a secret from another countries' spies and then wants to also play legal hardball in murkey waters between Meta and Twitter?

His character is consistently inconsistent.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by atleastoptimal on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:19PM (#36622243)
It's the same attitude Steve Jobs had about former employees going to Google to make Chrome. What makes Jobs and Musk such effective CEOs is they're very possessive and vindicative.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by sanderjd on Thursday July 06, 2023 @04:47PM (#36622755)
Don't mistake correlation with causality.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by bandyaboot on Friday July 07, 2023 @03:26AM (#36628375)
Musk was an effective CEO for Tesla and SpaceX because he didn’t care that people thought he couldn’t succeed in doing what he was trying to do. Based on his personality, I suspect his success is in no small part due to those people saying he would fail. He’s a total failure as Twitter’s pretend not-CEO because he’s allowed his mind to be infected with culture war politics.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by molave on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:21PM (#36623246)
Makes sense. However, I hope no one takes this the wrong way and hire too many people to starve competitors of talent.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by itsdrewmiller on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:29PM (#36623345)
This idea floats around but is not practical. Here's a comment thread about it with some numbers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32413948
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by eptcyka on Thursday July 06, 2023 @05:36PM (#36623438)
Pretty sure that was FAANG's approach, until the interest rates returned to normal.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by robocat on Friday July 07, 2023 @03:37AM (#36628474)
An analysis using some reasonable assumptions suggests that is not a profitable idea for major tech companies.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24487744

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by inerte on Friday July 07, 2023 @10:35AM (#36632355)
In fact the opposite has happened, and major Silicon Valley companies have agreed not to hire from each other, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by tehbeard on Friday July 07, 2023 @01:49AM (#36627714)
Or, you know, handle their termination with some care to honouring their contracts if you expect them to honour anything NDA / no compete for a while after...
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by quitit on Friday July 07, 2023 @03:36AM (#36628466)
Meta have already stated that no former twitter employees worked on Threads.

That's not all that surprising though, Meta could obviously build such a product from their own learnings and IP.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by mandeepj on Friday July 07, 2023 @05:03AM (#36629123)
> That's not all that surprising though, Meta could obviously build such a product from their own learnings and IP.

Twitter is a public app. How hard it’s to keep the app open on one monitor and write a spec doc on another?

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by fennecfoxy on Friday July 07, 2023 @05:54AM (#36629446)
Depends on what constitutes IP.

Is an artist with references open in another pane breaking copyright?

If we stoop to the rounded-corners Apple level then there's not really much point anyone making anything new anymore.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by LocalH on Friday July 07, 2023 @09:42AM (#36631623)
I mean, isn't the post you replied to essentially the clean room approach? One person/group does the actual reverse engineering and writes up the spec doc, and then a totally separate person/group takes that spec doc and produces code to implement it.
Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by fennecfoxy on Friday July 07, 2023 @11:26AM (#36633173)
I think that was maybe applicable back in the Gates & Wozniak days but not so sure that approach would be considered "clean" now.

It seems kind of ludicrous that one company can't look at another's product and create the same type of thing, just improved. That's how innovation works.

It's just that in this case, apart from a handful of differences, the core innovation of threads seems to be that Twitter has been taken over by an egotistical maniac and while Zuck is still a billionaire he seems wholly less concerned with tooting his own horn in public as Elon is.

I don't think Elon/Twitter has a leg to stand on, they don't own the concept of a public forum/social media platform, I'm sure that even the shortform that Twitter has enforced since its inception had been done long before.

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by mandeepj on Friday July 07, 2023 @04:28PM (#36637885)
> I'm sure that even the shortform that Twitter has enforced since its inception had been done long before.

Twitter's idea came from Text messages

https://www.lifewire.com/history-of-twitter-3288854

Re:Twitter is threatening to sue Meta over Threads [pdf] by yowzadave on Sunday July 09, 2023 @06:20PM (#36659554)
The lawsuit claims that Meta hired ex-Twitter employees to build Threads, which seems to be both factually untrue and not illegal even if it were true. Are you shifting the goalposts to a different claim?