News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by ummonk on Saturday May 13, 2023 @09:48PM (#35934592)
"An investigation by the Office of the Attorney General (OAG) found that the fake comments used the identities of millions of consumers, including thousands of New Yorkers, without their knowledge or consent."

$615k seems like a slap on the wrist for what they did.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by wly_cdgr on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:41PM (#35934877)
Slap on the wrist? Lol. $61.5m would be a slap on the wrist. $615k is a tip.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by Waterluvian on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:44PM (#35934890)
$615k is a stern look by a grandma whose eyes cannot help but betray just how much she loves you.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by rozal on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:14AM (#35935260)
Haha
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by slushh on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:54AM (#35935428)
It works, because you love her.

An almost absurd question, but would it be possible to add love to company interactions?

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by dotancohen on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:58AM (#35935670)
Unless you're Subaru, then no. For every other company, there is public opinion and public goodwill.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by Waterluvian on Sunday May 14, 2023 @07:18AM (#35937143)
I don’t believe so for my definition of “love” because it includes wanting to do kind things for someone without needing anything at all in return.

A company might emulate love, but it’s really just veiled manipulation.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by foo-bar-bat on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:44PM (#35934892)
Start with the idea "somebody" is making $1T/yr because of the status quo. Qui bono?

Then factor time:

1000000000000÷12÷30÷24÷60÷60

Somebody is making $32k profit per second. Who? That's about 5% margin/tax on $615k, so yeah, it's happening per second.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by heavyset_go on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:02PM (#35934681)
If an individual committed fraud by impersonating millions of people, they'd be in prison.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by EGreg on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:39PM (#35934868)
It seems the thing to do, before you dump toxic chemicals into the water or whatever, is to open a corporation. "Mistakes were made", after all.

This is only trumped by by sovereign immunity, for staring wars or oil spills or releasing viruses or whatever.

State Power is great isn't it?

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by TheCleric on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:35PM (#35935115)
Don't forget absolute immunity for bad prosecutors and qualified immunity for bad cops!
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by arp242 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:13AM (#35935258)
Ambrose Bierce also hit the nail on the head in 1911:

"Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility."

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by __MatrixMan__ on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:01AM (#35935222)
Let's put some shareholders in prison.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by jonathankoren on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:23AM (#35935289)
Just the executives
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by __MatrixMan__ on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:26AM (#35935303)
If my dog bites somebody, I'm on the hook. It should be no different with companies--otherwise there's no incentive to avoid funding shady behavior.

Stock ownership is rewarding because it's risky. Let it be risky.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by pooper on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:34AM (#35935340)
I will not silently go to prison because my 401k worth under USD 20k owns 0.0015 shares as a part of some mutual fund. The CEO and the board do not do my bidding. Send them to prison.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by labster on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:53AM (#35935423)
Technically you own shares of a mutual fund, and the mutual fund owns the stock. Unless the mutual fund only owns its shares via ownership share in a bank, which owns a derivative which owns the 0.0015 shares.

Which is generally why responsibility stops with the board of directors, because there’s no way there was criminal intent through four layers of indirection. (Except shell companies, of course.)

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by 8note on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:17AM (#35935748)
Intent sure, but negligence?
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by __MatrixMan__ on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:57AM (#35935436)
Practically speaking, I'd expect the courts to round up the top 10 shareholders or something like that.

In principle though, I think partial ownership of a harmful company should expose you to some liability, whether or not the CEO listens to you.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by callalex on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:07AM (#35935711)
That sounds like it would be a very strong incentive for investors to avoid potentially bad actors and instead favor non-criminal investments such as bonds. This is a feature.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by Rexxar on Sunday May 14, 2023 @06:29AM (#35936938)
So you do a convertible bond with a buy option that give you 90% of the company if it's successful and you still avoid risks and get all of the profit.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by oefnak on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:52AM (#35935918)
You should only get 0.0015 prison sentence then.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by DannyBee on Sunday May 14, 2023 @08:26AM (#35937458)
We deliberately changed this with the advent of the LLC, which is a new thing (~50 years) Before that shareholders were liable for corporate acts. At least monetarily

People seem to not realize this.

We should undo it. It was a mistake

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by clcaev on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:28AM (#35938268)
Do you mind unpacking this? How is an LLC fundamentally different than a C Corp in this regard? Do you have references?
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by DannyBee on Saturday May 20, 2023 @12:04PM (#36013051)
LLC's are state inventions, and thus vary quite a bit, but one standard feature is that you can't be liable for more than you put in. Thus they are shielded from any excess liability beyond their investment. This is true of c-corps today for sure. However, on top of that, they usually have almost no formalities or regulations, making piercing the corporate veil incredibly difficult.

C-corps have limited liability (now), but piercing is much easier for bad acts, and they have lots of regulation and formality (historically) that helped prevent bad acts in the first place.

The LLC changed a lot here - you could form businesses basically structured any way you want, with almost no regulations, and still not be liable. Outside of constructing an LLC to do totally illegal things (like rob banks or something), you and your shareholders are pretty much never liable.

That is definitely not true of C-corps, and was even less true historically :)

For limited liability in general: General forms of limited liability are about 100-150 years old, depending on country. IE before 1850, it was pretty rare. I believe new york has an earlier statute, but it was uncommon.

LLC's are not corporations, either, under most state law, they are special forms of companies.

The alternative mind you, was sometimes double liability for shareholders, who both lost their investments, and had to pay for excess loss.

I'm actually okay with that - it's a good way to ensure better diligence and less risk.

It's true that LLC's enabled innovation that would have been slower, but at a tremendous cost - enabling almost any risk to be taken for free is to me, a lot worse than slower innovation. It also lead to totally perverse things (toxic dumping, etc) and shareholders didn't worry or care because at most they lost some of their investment, and most of the time, could easily pull it out before the shares dropped, and move on to investing in the next horrible thing. In the old world, they would have been responsible for the entire cost, even if they pulled out.

Limited liability is a bad idea as long as people can do horrible things to each other and the world faster than you can (or should) make them strictly illegal.

People can always think of horribly destructive ways to make money, and ensuring not just personal, but shareholder liability for them, is one of the only ways to keep things in check.

These things would happen a lot less if the ROI was not as high, and in particular, if downside risk was not minimal.

Your friendly billionaire is going to invest a lot less in arms dealers if the downside risk is not just their 1 million investment, but their entire fortune.

There are lots of good articles on this:

https://www.bus.umich.edu/KresgeLibrary/resources/abla/abld_...

https://www.occ.gov/publications-and-resources/publications/...

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-instituti...

etc

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by harry8 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:52AM (#35935416)
Board of directors, representing the shareholders and elected by them need some prison time.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by MathMonkeyMan on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:48AM (#35935900)
They're protected. People with that much money only go to jail if they mess with other rich people's money, and still seldom.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by undersuit on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:29AM (#35935563)
I would be completely open to prosecuting a majority stake holder who insisted they were not responsible for a companies' abhorent actions because we have no evidence that all their personal requests passed the board.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by eastbound on Sunday May 14, 2023 @03:54AM (#35936192)
I would be perfectly fine with prosecuting every single employee as well. The level of “I didn’t see the contents of documents I printed” is far too high everywhere, and if employees were unwilling to carry illegal activity, it would be much harder to perform this level of crime.

It’s exactly similar to everyone who participated in a pyramid scheme is liable for the last round of victims. Up to you to get informed.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by anovikov on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:00AM (#35935447)
Not really. Vast majority of the crypto money made in 2021-2022 was by swarming ICOs and launchpads with sometimes hundreds of thousands (among people i personally know) and probably millions among those i don't, fake accounts - all having real names, addresses, IPs, passport scans etc. - getting in onto highly deficit launches when like 1 in a 100 trying gets in, and then the coin goes 10x because of immense demand. You do it with 100K accs, 1000 get in and buy coin for $500 each, you get $4m profit spending $500K for buy-ins and another $500K for accounts themselves ($5 apiece). Until even that stopped working because apparently, these fraudsters simply ran out of people worldwide. Some rather ordinary people made north of $100M this way, and i'm sure there are those i don't know (i'm not really in crypto at all, just like hanging out with smart guys) tho made billions. No one went to jail as far as i heard.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by csomar on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:57AM (#35935666)
Many went to jail and some celebrities got fines. I'm pretty sure some went under the radar but the prosecution is still working on the years 2016-2019. If you are in the US and you've been involved in such sh*t, you are in really bad position.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by anovikov on Sunday May 14, 2023 @05:14AM (#35936566)
People who defrauded "investors" by advertising shitcoins - sure! But that was a purely anonymous, scripted activity.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by mysterydip on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:14PM (#35934737)
"but it says right here in article 5 paragraph 20 section b of the EULA you agreed to that we may use your personally identifiable information to improve our service."
[dead]
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by clnq on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:23PM (#35934786)
The most effective advertisement for communism[1] is capitalism.

[1] Not the failed Soviet Union experiment, but the idea of broadly shared equity and many aspects of life being done for their intrinsic value rather than money.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by savant_penguin on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:35PM (#35934847)
Oh yeah, the reality of communism was so great that communists (all over the entire planet) built walls to prevent people from leaving.

That way they made sure you enjoy it to the fullest.

The most effective advertisement for capitalism should be that you can be communist under it, meanwhile under most communist countries you'd get the firing squad for speaking against the regime

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by maxbond on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:43PM (#35934886)
Authoritarianism will reliably produce such outcomes regardless of the economic system or ideology at play, and violent revolution/vanguardism will reliably produce authoritarianism.

Vanguardism and violent revolution are a failure, that doesn't make capitalism the only alternative. Indeed, that's entirely orthogonal.

Plenty of capitalist states have committed similar atrocities. An obvious example being the early United States - the transatlantic slave trade and the various death marches inflicted on Native Americans are every bit as horrifying as the crimes of the USSR, and were committed explicitly to obtain labor and real estate (notice these are both forms of capital) for our burgeoning capitalist economic system. Yet the people who claim the USSR proves communism is necessarily violent don't seem to take this as evidence that democracy or capitalism are similarly irredeemable.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by KyeRussell on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:54PM (#35934930)
If you aren’t able to distinguish communism and revolutionary authoritarianism you have very little right to enter these sorts of arguments with any sort of authority. Take your US propaganda view of political and economic systems and run off elsewhere.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by clnq on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:00PM (#35934955)
You are describing totalitarian authoritarianism, not communism.

This is why I felt that the distinction between communism and the failed USSR experiment was necessary. Sadly, whenever many people from the US hear the word communism, they immediately assume it means the Soviet Union. Communism was one of many aspects of USSR, many of which were much less desirable by its people.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by savant_penguin on Sunday May 14, 2023 @06:04AM (#35936829)
Could you provide one example of communism that did not end up an authoritarian regime?

Communism is just not compatible with freedom. When free to choose, societies do not become communist, they embrace production and trade. You cannot achieve what communists want without extensive use of force

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by clnq on Sunday May 14, 2023 @07:51AM (#35937293)
It has not been implemented on a state level without the state also being totalitarian. There have been few tries to do it on a state level, anyways.

However, on a town or district level:

1. Primitive Communism — basically all human history before the agricultural revolution.

2. The Paris Commune — Paris was run by its workers for a few months before bloody suppression by capitalists.

3. The Israeli Kibbutz movement.

4. The Zapatistas in Mexico.

5. The Rojava region in Syria.

Overall, there are many cases in which communism has been successful and sustainable for a long time at a district scale. In case of primitive communism, for thousands of years.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by hayst4ck on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:50PM (#35934912)
In the game of prisoners dilemma, they defected and won. This means their strategy of corruption is a winning strategy. It means our law has failed and we can expect more people to practice a strategy of corruption and flouting the law rather than a strategy of adherence to the law or ethical principles.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by fnimick on Sunday May 14, 2023 @06:02AM (#35936817)
Breaking the rules and cheating has been a celebrated strategy here and in the startup community. Remember that Uber and AirBnB were blatantly illegal when they launched and made millions. Remember how YC was encouraging people who advertised how to lie to skip covid vaccine wait lines as a "social hack"?
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by boomerango on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:55PM (#35934932)
Puts on conspiracy hat

What if killing net neutrality was a given, but the administration wanted the appearance of due process…

God, I’ve grown jaded.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by explorer83 on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:12PM (#35935013)
I mean, the rhetoric for net neutrality was pretty extreme. According to the rhetoric of the time, we would be living in a world of internet "fast lanes" right now if net neutrality didn't pass. Only services affiliated with the big greedy telcos were going to be given a pass while all the other services on the web were going to require additional fees to get adequate bandwidth to/from. That was a major fear mongering argument that hasn't come to pass. All the major tech sites were publishing the same rhetoric.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by sublinear on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:12AM (#35935254)
At the time home broadband wasn't so cheap outside of about a few hundred major cities, satellite internet was a joke, and phones were still on 3G networks with relatively aggressive data caps.

It wasn't obvious whether the telcos were going to keep competing and improving or just become complacent as a cartel. Snowden's leaks were just about to be released. The distrust seemed very reasonable at the time.

In a few ways the "fast lane" idea did get implemented, but in terms of cost rather than the speed of access. Lots of bundles between telcos and streaming services exist now (i.e. Netflix, HBO Max, Disney+, ESPN, YouTube TV, etc.).

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by ToValueFunfetti on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:19AM (#35935276)
What did these companies get out of pushing to repeal it then? If the regulation was banning a business model that no one was going to use anyway, I don't see the impetus to commit mass fraud. Does net neutrality prevent anything beyond fast lanes and censorship?
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by citizen_friend on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:12AM (#35935492)
Just to speculate:

- perhaps it includes auditing and reporting measures to ensure they aren't doing this things.

- maybe its really hard to guarantee exactly equal performance for all traffic and they examine the traffic and do different things depending on the domain to balance loads

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by explorer83 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:21AM (#35935536)
To overly simplify it I believe we witnessed a battle of big tech vs big ISP. Each had a financial stake. Big ISP didn't want to pay for investments in infrastructure it didn't think would bring a good ROI or the extra costs you mentioned above with having to comply with new government regulations. And Big tech didn't want to pay extra fees for being some of the biggest servers of data on the internet. The fact so many comments here don't acknowledge big tech also had business interests in net neutrality passing like big ISP had business interests in it failing scares me. They are both big business looking out for their own backsides. I'm saying this as someone who grew up in a house that STILL doesn't have access to highspeed landline internet in 2023 because the ISPs did t consider the density of houses in the area worth the investment. I'm not immune to Big ISP or a shill. But this legislation was not the good vs evil it's made out to be by so many. Big tech companies have little problem taking a stand for some opinions they don't seem acceptable. they don't give neutrality to their platforms either.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by ShroudedNight on Sunday May 14, 2023 @03:06AM (#35935983)
Big tech has large service costs because a large number of little people are requesting data from their networks. Data for which the transit has already been payed for by the requestor. Despite the 'asymmetries' in throughput vectors, the market value equivalent of a Poynting vector is minimized with settlement-free peering. Paid peering is only enforceable because there are few enough retail providers for large segments of the population that they can wield monopsony power without customers fleeing on masse from degraded service.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by explorer83 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @11:41AM (#35938797)
The issue isn't the internet backbones though. The issue is the "last mile" of delivery. The throttling that occurs between the end user and ISP usually occurs at this point and this is where there is the least amount of ROI for telecom operators. The biggest profiteers of unlimited bandwidth are big tech platforms. The biggest investors in getting that bandwidth to end users are ISPs. This is a big business battle of each of them wanting to retain as much profit as possible while making it the other person's problem to pay for it. Google tried running their own ISP and you know what they cited as the biggest hurdle to not doing so on a larger scale? Government regulations. All the permits required were eating tons of time and money. The argument that bigger government regulations are going to save us from big ISP isn't complete.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by citizen_friend on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:03PM (#35939391)
It was obvious from the one sided marketing that the entire story wasn't being told.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by sroussey on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:18AM (#35935752)
They want to charge you for access, but they also want to charge who you are connecting to, even if through a middleman.

Just because Netflix paid their providers, your local isp wants their cut as well.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by ynoatho on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:35AM (#35935342)
> According to the rhetoric of the time, we would be living in a world of internet "fast lanes" right now if net neutrality didn't pass.

Anything resembling this existed almost a decade ago in a very different landscape, and what you're saying isn't even really reflective of the reality at the time. The vast majority of reasonable people were talking about what would gradually happen if the concept of net neutrality was totally thrown out; today there is more nuance, more public awareness, more partisanship, different goalposts being fought over.

Now we have a ruling that the FCC can't limit state net neutrality law, because Verizon was literally fucking throttling a fire department during a major wildfire. We have ISPs being a bit more careful until we drop our guard again, it's not exactly a mystery.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by incone123 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @03:59AM (#35936228)
They have a new fantasy where they want a fee from high bandwidth platforms like Netflix and YouTube, because suppisedly they can't deliver what they already charged consumers for. More likely because there's a lot of money moving about and they want a bigger slice.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by explorer83 on Sunday May 21, 2023 @04:50PM (#36024567)
If a water bottling company moved into your town I'm sure you'd support them paying a little extra. You pay for your water too.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by incone123 on Monday May 22, 2023 @04:21PM (#36036202)
That data is only flowing to me because I requested it, and the ISP already sold me an uncapped service.

Can you explain your analogy? I'm unclear if the aquifer is the ISP, the video platform, or something else.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by trehalose on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:04AM (#35938087)
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by bitL on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:03PM (#35934967)
Truth is likely much worse than anybody imagines but our brains want to keep us going so they filter it out.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by ZoomerCretin on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:06PM (#35934985)
What if? That's almost certainly what happened.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by RajT88 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:05AM (#35935232)
/\---- This! In fact, if you were paying attention to FCC proceedings during that time, I'd be surprised if you came away with any other conclusion.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by undersuit on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:33AM (#35935577)
There is a reason that "Fuck Ajit Pai." is a meme.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by ajross on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:09PM (#35935001)
Are you really positing that the NY State AG was colluding across four years of time with the Trump administration's FCC? That's getting a big beyond "jaded" and into tinfoil territory, to be honest.

No, there's no collusion here. These are just state laws that are insufficient to compel the behavior we want. She got what she could and called it a victory. But a very progressive AG is clearly not in the pocket of the internet content industry.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by az226 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @05:52AM (#35936766)
I remember back then, it was abundantly clear that this is what it was. Ajit Pai was against it. He’s a corporate shill. They were doing stuff deliberately to sour the process. Also, like 100% of the fake comments were against net neutrality, which was quite telling. The fake comments weren’t even spread in a believable way. The times look very much bot generated. Simple stuff to filter out if you were honest.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by blackboxlogic on Monday May 15, 2023 @07:03AM (#35946309)
I try to ignore the message of bad-faith content instead of penalizing the person who it seems to favor. Otherwise you enable false flag attacks.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by latchkey on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:56PM (#35934935)
I just watched the Nike/Air Jordan movie... kind of reminds me of the part where they just pay the $5k fine and have him wear the red shoes.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by cavisne on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:09PM (#35934998)
Interestingly the actual judgement is significantly higher (still single digit millions). I dont really know what a "Statement of Financial Condition" is but I assume it means they are taking basically all the money these companies + their directors have.

These are not big operations, they were charging 7c a "lead", so each company made ~100k, and the CEO was running the script to send fake data himself.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by ummonk on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:18PM (#35935046)
Yeah I mean without looking into specifics of what criminal laws would or wouldn’t be applicable, that definitely seems like something the CEO should do a bit of prison time for.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by rapsacnz on Saturday May 13, 2023 @11:50PM (#35935182)
$615k... feck. More like a gentle caress.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by dclowd9901 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:02AM (#35935224)
Right. They need to reopen commentary and unrepeal net neutrality. How is it that we have a system that rewards endless appeals in the judiciary but the equivalent of a mistrial in public policy is treated with a barely-there fine?
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by dragonwriter on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:36AM (#35935344)
> $615k seems like a slap on the wrist for what they did.

It is. But its also state and local officials using state law to try to get any punishment for what is a fairly serious federal crime that, for some reason, the federal government has elected not to prosecute. [0]

[0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by hulitu on Sunday May 14, 2023 @04:04AM (#35936252)
> But its also state and local officials using state law to try to get any punishment for what is a fairly serious federal crime that, for some reason, the federal government has elected not to prosecute.

Prosecuting that would have lead to a dangerous precedent for a lot of companies and government agencies involved in propaganda.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by gpvos on Sunday May 14, 2023 @04:09AM (#35936281)
Not prosecuting it is a dangerous precedent. Especially now we have AI text generation, such actions should lead any company to be sued into bankruptcy, and jail time for its leaders.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by jackmott42 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:18AM (#35938188)
Good, I hope any such companies and agencies are eliminated and their leaders jailed.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by dragonwriter on Sunday May 14, 2023 @12:49PM (#35939295)
> Prosecuting that would have lead to a dangerous precedent for a lot of companies and government agencies involved in propaganda.

Propaganda (a.k.a , advertising/marketing) is broadly legal (though some specific methods and certain actors participating in certain kinds are restricted), deliberately making materially false statements to the government in the course of, and in order to influence, a government proceeding is prohibited. Firmly drawing the line between those things is a good thing.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by LoganDark on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:15AM (#35935505)
> $615k seems like a slap on the wrist for what they did.

No fine has ever been a threat to any company. The entire system is such a joke.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by crawsome on Sunday May 14, 2023 @07:10AM (#35937108)
Such a disheartening outcome. They perpetuated fraud at a scale we've never seen, they get away with it, they changed history, and now we have to live with it.

More consequences are due.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by nurettin on Sunday May 14, 2023 @01:59AM (#35935673)
It is probably more than what they made as a "fake comment provider".
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by levidos on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:37AM (#35935843)
Less than $1 / fake comment.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by thayne on Sunday May 14, 2023 @02:46AM (#35935890)
And a small slap at that.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by hoppla on Sunday May 14, 2023 @03:44AM (#35936158)
Does this set precedence? Under $1 dollar fine for each identity impersonation is a bargain!
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by hulitu on Sunday May 14, 2023 @04:01AM (#35936239)
> $615k seems like a slap on the wrist for what they did.

Justice was served.

Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by euroderf on Sunday May 14, 2023 @09:41AM (#35937885)
Viewed as an investment, it probably had a quite good ROI.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by jasonm23 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @10:06PM (#35943137)
Their "suspected" employers just inhaled that amount of money before I finished this comment.
Re:Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Intern... by asdadsdad on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @10:11PM (#35970488)
I kinda refuse to believe the US gov doesn't undertake astroturfing for its own needs