Yet somehow the product completely sold out in under an hour. I really don't understand the outrage on that decision, would you prefer that everyone can buy their useless commutative coins?
It's also probably reasonable to be upset that they are pricing a significant portion of their community out of a product that ostensibly celebrates the success of the community.
They could have done a LOT more cooler things and passionate lovers of the game wish that they did.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Reserved_List
One of the most famous cards is on the RL:
https://scryfall.com/card/leb/233/black-lotus?utm_source=mw_...
And the new "not legal" version:
That's the downside to having that market segment as your customers, the upside is that they are fanatically loyal and are not remotely picky or discerning as customers/consumers.
What decision are you claiming people were outraged?
Because the actual reason people where outraged is the very existence of the magic 30th edition in the first place. It is one of the clearest and starkest examples of a company disrespecting it's customer, ever.
Why?
Compare it to some other fanbases. With music, printing a super pricy limited edition of an album with extra non-music content is a normal decision. With sneakers, that's like the entire market. With comic books limited edition posters and figures are commonplace.
So many fandoms have outlets for the rich megafans that the average fan can just ignore without any real issue. Why is it disrespecting the customer? I can understand disliking the side sets having chase cards that are necessary for some formats, and could see those as disrespecting the customer, but not these.
If it was real very rare cards, there would be upset but they could have made it work.
If it was non-cardlike collectibles, it would have been fine.
But to sell non-legal cards at such a high price is so much the opposite of the community celebration they were pushing for overall.
And the last time they sold something like this, it was the entire set and it wasn't expensive. Even if that was a long time ago.
And wizards constantly pretends that all their pieces of cardboard have similar value, so it's extra obnoxious whenever they price something like this. But this one in particular is an order of magnitude worse even if we forget for a second they aren't legal cards.
And various ways of playing the game are actively dying because it's so hard to get cards like this, which just adds salt.
Formats like legacy and vintage are no longer things you can buy into and play a similar deck for a long period of time. Instead, they're things where you have to buy new cards once every two to four weeks to remain competitive. That's a big change from a few years back when those formats tended to be relative stable for 1-2 year periods.
That's the real thing that folks are frustrated with. The 30th anniversary packs are just something that's easy to point at and go "this is a money grab". If it were just those, it would really be a "to each their own".
That’s literally been going since around Mirrodin. It’s why I gave up on the game.
Now I just have a massive set of only commons that everyone can build their decks with and I don’t have to deal with the insane power inflation.
I was talking mostly about power inflation of the cards themselves though.
[1] https://dotesports.com/mtg/news/magic-30th-anniversary-editi...
Gotta protect that exclusivity.
This needs to be said more often about more markets.
The company should be shut down and its valuable brands spun off!
It's not at all quaint and futile; don't believe that crap, meant to shut you up. It's awesome you sent that email.
It's futile if your standard is that, as just one person, you will achieve 100% success. Then everything in the world is futile, because nobody ever accomplishes anything significant alone (really - name anyone doing anything) or 100%. (Let's realize also that it would be wrong if one person had that much power. There are others with legitimate, conflicting interests, who should have a 'vote' too.)
But you are part of a larger community, and I promise Hasbro listens to the signals. If they switched manufacturing to China and there was silence, that would be a powerful signal. If all they heard was their shareholders or Wall Street analysts, that would be a powerful signal.
It's not all or nothing, the same goes for most other issues (such as elections). People shift positions based on the response. Maybe less work was shifted to China, then or on a future date; maybe they decided to keep customer service in the US or make the investment more flexible or short term. Maybe they mentioned at Davos, 'wow, we sure heard a lot of complaints about moving the manufacturing', and others heard it and shifted their positions.
Keep talking; the people who say it's futile are the people who want you to shut up.
That said, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that heavy pointed metal darts aren’t the safest of toys.
Knifes aren’t safe for children either, but we haven’t banned those.
Hasbro itself is just a stable stead business. It shouldn't be trying to get hockey stick growth on games.
The same seems to be true with Games Workshop and I've never understood this. The products from both companies have huge markups (painted cards and pieces of plastic) and I'd assume that they could actually have a far larger market and profit by concentrating on scale rather than treating their products as luxury items. There's a clear reason that a lot of people are printing miniatures (pirating) from both franchises. I wouldn't be surprised if open sourced alternatives to these games soon spike in popularity as more people get fed up.
I think a lot of people have had the following conversation (in either direction)
Alice: Do you play Warhammer 40k?
Bob: No, I play MTG. I'd love to play 40k but I can only afford one addiction.
This just doesn't seem like it makes for a sustainable business practice. Even if we might consider that the total cost of entertainment isn't that extreme (there is low diversity for these games compared to a videogame or sports habit), people have a hard time justifying those prices for playing cards and plastic models because they intuitively understand that there is a huge markup.
I'm not sure that's true. The actual bottleneck with these games is not money but time and interest: you have to have a group of people who all like the same game, and you have to be able to get the group together regularly to play it. There are plenty of people who are interested, but I suspect that the vast majority of them are already players of whatever game they favor (if they haven't switched to something like World of Warcraft--see below), so I don't know that there's a lot of untapped market share.
As for getting the group together to play, when all of the players are teenagers in school or college, that's relatively easy. It gets a lot harder when people are adults and have to work, pay mortgages, deal with various curve balls that adult life always throws at you, etc. And if you know you're not going to be able to devote the time to it that you used to as a kid when you learned the games (I started playing D&D in eighth grade, and spent far more hours playing it between then and graduating from high school than I have in all the years since--and my 40 year high school reunion is this year), it gets a lot harder to justify spending money on game materials.
Another factor is the availability of online games like World of Warcraft, which I mentioned above. These games solve the time and interest problem in a way that can't help scaling much better than in person tabletop play: you can play from your computer at home and there are always other people online playing. There are also limitations, of course: for example, you can't make up your own adventures and you can't have house rules, which were both features of every D&D campaign I have ever encountered. But it's another factor that I think tends to limit the size of the available market for games like D&D.
All of the above factors seem to me to indicate that there is a natural limit to the size of the market for games like the ones WoTC is producing, and the actual active market is close to that limiting size. If that's true, then the option of trying to make more money by scaling instead of markup simply isn't available to them.
For campaign based games like DND and other RPGs I'd agree, but with the specific examples of MTG and 40k I highly disagree. You do not need to meet regularly for MTG (card) or 40k (miniature) style games as they can easily be played as one-offs. While RPGs have one-shots they are far less common and the overhead is quite high compared to MTG/40k (just show up with your deck/army). In addition to this, games like MTG and 40k are often played 1v1 (though can expand) and this makes the scheduling problem easier since you only need to find compatible times for 2 people rather than 3-5 (or more).
I was in a similar boat, though for a long time during university I shared a collection with a friend and we did a pretty good job at selling off stuff to keep the effective costs down.
Since 2016, I stopped playing heavily rotational formats like Standard [for those unfamiliar, there's many different formats of MTG which are played and 'Standard' is one of the most popular ones in which you can play "all the mainline cards released from the last X sets", normally ~2 years worth], and moved to Modern [all cards printed since mid-2003 are playable]. My hope was that because of the longer (and growing) availability of cards, Modern would be more affordable in the long term - since decks would remain viable for long periods of time (perhaps with small adjustments with new cars coming out).
Then over ~20 months, that view changed a lot. First Wizards banned Oko & Mox Opal in January 2020. Firstly, these cards lost value directly - but they also caused quite a big shift in the metagame to the point where entire decks got awful, and hence less valuable. Then in mid-2021 they released the Modern Horizons 2 set, which had a massive impact on very many Modern decks (per MTGGoldfish, 8 of the 10 most commonly played creatures in the Modern metagame at the moment are from Modern Horizons 2). Once again, this totally decimated the value of many existing cards.
I hate the sort of "MTG Finance" approach to the MTG scene, but like you say - it's hard to justify $30/hr for a hobby, and its clear that Hasbro will print whatever it takes to maximize their profits (even if it has a significant negative impact on existing customers).
That would seem the biggest way to stick it to WotC: devalue their artificial scarcity while still enjoying the game.
The main limiting factor is what you can convince folks to play. Game stores have the main formats, and unknown amounts of money spent, but you can do whatever with your friends!
I think I may be done, though. The power and complexity creep has gotten to me in the past few years. I can understand that cards need to be rebalanced, or that new rules get introduced over time, but the complexity of the current version of the game has gotten out of hand. The cynic in me says that the power creep is there so that people playing formats like modern will pay for new sets, and since the new cards are more powerful and have more abilities, it drags down the game.
But there is something to be said about games produced by companies that don't rely upon a constant revenue stream (MtG, e.g.) to enjoy.
There's a thriving comunity out there, and so far I've been welcome with open arms every time I've reached out.
We see this happen basically everywhere with almost no exceptions.
I played D&D in high school when it consisted of a few (often xeroxed) rulebooks, some funny looking dice, some graph paper, and the players' own imaginations. The current version sounds awful by comparison.
Now get off my lawn.
One of my favorite movies is a biodoc about a Soviet-era player from Kazakhstan, on youtube (1st of 3 parts, around 15 minutes each: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Io7jbHsYs ). I can't imagine someone making a movie like that about a Warhammer player. But, that's just me.
Abstract games are highly, highly dependent on memorization and repetition. In lower tiers a Go or Chess player that's played more games or memorized more positions will handily beat a player who hasn't. The sheer hours needed to get to high level chess play, where memorization doesn't matter as much anymore, is insane. There's a reason most great chess players start out young.
Abstracts are also perfect information games. I like games that simulate aspects of real life, and anything with perfect information immediately breaks my immersion.
Added: Look at some of the PogChamps tournaments on youtube. The players are youtube streamers who are chess beginners and they play horribly, but they are still a blast.
Chess is not a great shared game for a group of friends. You all need to be somewhat close in skill to each other (or else the outliers will get bored of playing chess with the group). That also means that you all need to progress at relatively similar rates.
The board games I like to play are thematic, introduce a bit of luck, and are engaging for players of all skill levels. They don’t allow for nearly the same level of mastery that chess does, but that’s exactly what makes them so fun to play as a group.
Besides playing, watching chess videos is interesting too. I like the youtube PowerplayChess channel for updates on top level events and historical games. There are lots of other channels too.
From that perspective, the business is as sustainable as Star Wars or Marvel: as long as this Thor offers a better fantasy than generic Thors, the brand will last (and accumulate the advantages of a deep, lasting history), and therefore will outlast competitors.
I'm fond of model railways, and it's discarded lots of that heritage. You look in a '70s or 80s magazine, and the projects are "here's a new (inflation-adjusted) $50 kit" or "assemble bits and bobs from three different $20 kits following a detailed article". Today, the equivalent model is only sold fully assembled and painted at $200.
> Don't mess with Dungeon Masters who know how to call together a group of people
Don't mess with Dungeon Masters who have converted their campaign into 2 seasons on Amazon Prime. Just sit back and collect the checks for the free advertising.
Promo codes usually give money to the person shilling the code as a fraction of the promo derived sales. If the company is paying you for advertising, like on YouTube channels, that’s how it’s usually done. But people with established advertising channels can run that the other direction: we’ll promote your stuff and you give us 5% of the gross.
I think WotC could be promoting Dwarven Forge without cannibalizing their own sales, for instance. They make different kinds of miniatures.
I’m out of the loop. What does this refer to?
Sure would be a shame if something happened to that copyrighted material…
Cleverer still, in C2 and EXU he established that there is forbidden knowledge of ways that a mortal can become a god by replacing one. And when you kill a god, memory of your predecessor fades amongst mortals. Nobody human remembers the dead gods (I think it’s implied the other gods remember).
So if you can rewrite history such that only the gods remember the real story, but all of the gods are dead, you either have no pantheon or a new pantheon.
Critical Role is a bunch of voice actors who are geeks (said affectionally and consider that these are the people who were in the acting club and comedy sports back in high school... they're still geeks today) and get together and play D&D.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Role - click the links to the cast and then look at the filmography. And they're fairly dedicated to playing ( https://youtu.be/Ou-0Lj-gOt8 )
They filmed/streamed their sessions and that has brought in a good chunk of money. They did a "let's try a kickstarter for doing it as an actual animation series" and had a $750k goal... and got $11M. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/criticalrole/critical-r... // https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/19/critical-role-vox-machina-ki...
> In March, the folks behind the “Dungeons and Dragons” webseries launched a Kickstarter campaign to create an animated special based on its first campaign. Within an hour of its launch, it raised more than $1 million in funding.
This is the reaction video to that first day on kickstarter - https://youtu.be/oAF2ZNcYBok
And it got made... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Vox_Machina
And renewed for a second season... and a third season...
https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Vox-Machina-Season-Trailer/dp/...
And you can see that there is a lot of money there... but there's also a "these people have a sizable following and even those who are second hand consumers of D&D and don't sit down at a table are now aware of what is trying to be done to it."
WOTC is notorious for paying around 50% of the market rate and giving a bunch of free product to employees and generally convincing them that working for poor wages is worth it because of the games. I think senior management doesn't give a shit but middle management and below definitely cares about the games, they just lack the power/ ability to make major decisions.
Why can't things just exist and be profitable enough to continue? Why must EVERYTHING be ruined by the drive for high but short-term profits?
If they started teaching this to MBAs, the world would be a much better place.
The problem occurs when a business is successful because it moves slow, a critical aspect of modular products. Squeezing blood out of a modular product by manufacturing an inferior run may return investments faster, but it also kills the company.
"What sphinx of cement and aluminum bashed open their skulls and ate up their brains and imagination? Moloch!"
"Moloch the incomprehensible prison! Moloch the crossbone soulless jailhouse and Congress of sorrows! Moloch whose buildings are judgment! Moloch the vast stone of war! Moloch the stunned governments!
Moloch whose mind is pure machinery! Moloch whose blood is running money! Moloch whose fingers are ten armies! Moloch whose breast is a cannibal dynamo! Moloch whose ear is a smoking tomb!"
https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/
Since much of your market is actually parents, you're in a more secure place than a lot of other businesses: people are going to be more willing to pay for a trusted brand. There's always going to be various FUD of "off-brand toys might be unsafe".
There's probably a risk factor-- you may not have THIS YEAR'S HOT TOY,--but I'd think the exact same problem applies to an adult audience, who is probably even more fickle because they don't have to get Mom and Dad to gatekeep their purchase decisions.
* Wizards of the Coast (WoTC) has been tasked by Hasbro (which owns WoTC) to drastically increase profits over a few years.
* WoTC has been aggressively increasing prices on Magic the Gathering (MTG) and drastically increased the diversity of products. This overwhelmed even people who follow and produce MTG news. Wallet fatique is rampant and people are disgruntled.
* WoTC releases the 30th aniversary edition for MTG, which is 60 random cards for 1000 $ which are officially marked as non-tournament legal. The MTG community is furious and for once people from all corners of the community come together to boycott this product. The rage is great and enduring.
* WoTC fails to meet expectations and the stock prices plummet
* To do damage control, WoTC/Hasbro annouces a "fireside chat" for their shareholders where they try to explain the situation but basically just say "we did nothing wrong and we are trying to extract a lot of money from Dungeons and Dragons next"
* Unlike the MTG community, the DnD community is very good at organizing a unified response and the shitstorm came swiftly and took WoTC by surprise. (Don't mess with Dungeon Masters who know how to call together a group of people)
The real problem is the managers at WoTC that don't really care about the games. They only care about money. I expect more bad things in the future.