(I haven't been to the SF public library in a while, but the few times I went in as a Mozilla intern the staff were so rude I ended up buying books and selling them at a used bookstore when finished rather than be treated rudely by folks who were within a year or two of me, from the same department I graduated from. Maybe there's a reason people don't respect that space, and it's not just because they're mentally ill and/or down on their luck.)
The problem is similar to what happened when low income housing (the "projects") concentrated the poor into economic ghettos.
If they're "poor", don't they have to rent or buy low income housing, and so "concentrate into economic ghettos"?
There is no policy concentrating the poor with each other, any more than there is a policy that concentrates the rich with each other. The market makes available different products, and different economic market segments purchase different products. With a policy, or without a policy, the poor will live with the poor.
And form "economic ghettos".
I prefer it being a homeless shelter, its cold as hell in chicago right now. It would be nice for them to have some some space there.
Whenever there is a cold wave we all wonder whats happening to the ppl left out there. It would be nice for them to have one more option. give everyone else peace of mind, lol.
They adapted and drew in new users. How awful.
I myself have been coming in and out of their space trying to job hunt.
(Turns out a common trope is people don't want to socialize with someone who "lives with their parents" or is un/under employed.)
So picture you're trying to study for OSCP, and you can't find a space that's quiet. In a library.
And what you'd think would happen is someone would go "oh, you're in IT? I know someone looking for that" and solve the issue.
And then instead, they treat it like a game -- or worse, start acting purposefully othering.
That is my core complaint -- that both those spaces and those resources in the monetary sense divert disproporionately to folks who, frankly, sometimes interact in ways that make me question why they strive so hard to interact with teenagers all day.
(Also, it was often not new users -- just bigger, more elaborate programs for the same rich kids from the suburbs who used to pay for special camps and programs... but now having them held in spaces those who couldn't afford them used to do self education.)
I hope taking the time and energy to type that out helps.
Someone else commented that the library is one of the last noncommercial spaces... I honestly don't have that impression at all. I got the sense if you're not using it to do remote work, or as a community center, but to... check out materials and use them... you are unwelcome unless you're buying stuff (coffee, supplies etc) or part of one of the groups that makes substantial donations when they're not making noise.
They have spaces for business meetings, rooms for night classes, groups to meet and so on!
They really are a wonderful mix of community services.
Plus libraries are still a great place to take young children. They often have seperate kids areas where you can spend an hour or two with toddlers.
Libraries arnt stuffy old quiet buildings anymore!
The building is open until 11pm 4 days a week, with reduced hours on Friday and Saturday; closed on Sunday. I guess it's no surprise that the website describes as more of a "Multifunctioneel Centrum" as opposed to just a library!
(For those not living in the area, this is the largest of the Washington, DC, public libraries, downtown at 9th and G NW.)
But the number of tourists in NYC compared to Boston is probably a big difference.
If I’m coworking in NYC sometime, maybe I’ll ask what kind of research I must be doing to get to read there. I’m guessing with the physical books only available there?
Fun factoid about NYPL: it's a private nonprofit, not a municipal establishment like many other libraries.
It's a logistics and resources problem - libraries are: shelter, safety, heating/cooling, running water, restrooms, a place to sit... Truth is we don't afford that to everyone here and a lot of people ignore the cruelty/suffering. Hell - some even justify and celebrate it.
What other free indoor facilities existed in the past?
I think it's fine to encourage people to spend time at the library. I know as a kid, I grew a lot as a person at our local library.
They had after school activities once a week, it was about a mile down the road, so we had to learn to be responsible walking after school. The librarians were always kind to us, even though I'm sure as teenagers we probably weren't always a carbon copy of the model, upstanding citizen.
I could spend time with my friends discussing various topics, with easy information available if we couldn't agree on the facts. Plus, I kissed my wife for the first time on the bench outside. Libraries are great :)
You're expected to donate, you're just allowed not to.
https://sfist.com/2013/08/27/were_doomed_sf_main_library_bat...
And yes, with children access to a bathroom is necessary.
Also now elsewhere and going to library is so fun. We can bike etc. they are reasonably strict though. No sex, drugs, sleeping etc
I contrast that with the library in Austin. Obviously, as a free, warm, comfortable space, there are tons of homeless people there. But, unlike in SF, the Austin library doesn't let them trash the place - the homeless there are just using the library like everyone else. There is a strict no sleeping/lying rule (which I've seen enforced) which prevents anyone from basically taking over a section of the library. The bathrooms have always been immaculate whenever I've used them.
IMO the Austin library's policy toward the homeless shows how you can be respectful and welcoming to all while still requiring everyone who enters to respect the building.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_...
The below article seems to indicate and average of around 700k in the EU.
https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/does-europe-have-a-home...
I don't believe there are many other parts of the world where this happens.
It has become an incredibly valuable community hub. Books are a bit of an excuse to enjoy its architecture and function. I've been there for countless hours with my children as they have grown up.
I'm also consistently impressed by the staff. In a time when every business is complaining about staffing and using it as an excuse for bad quality and bad service, it seems that most libraries are staffed with total professionals who do their job day in and day out and do it well.
I even met the librarian who invented the phrase “surfing the internet” at a librarian conference. Yes, a librarian was there to coin phrases at the dawn of the web!
A bit of internet surfing turned up her story about it: https://www.netmom.com/surfing/birth-of-a-metaphor
Many Canadian cities are upgrading their libraries and i for one am overjoyed to see that!
> The new library building is beautiful, super inviting and some of my favorite architecture anywhere. I love going there to work or read.
Im confused. Why did you initially oppose it? Seems like you like it because its nice but surely that wasn't your original concern.
Because the less well off may not have enough devices or internet access to do things digitally. It's also good if you have young kids. You can't read that book which has different textures for all the animals digitally.
Is that really still true? I've traveled in many poor counties where people live in shacks with no plumbing, yet still all have internet connected smartphones. Only in the most remote villages with no electricity or phone signal are people still truly disconnected.
In AU, you can still get really cheap prepaid plans that don't really have a lot of data all things considered. For example, right now I can get an Amaysim SIM for $100, and you get 60GB for 365 days. https://www.amaysim.com.au/plans/long-expiry-plans/
This is roughly 165MB a day. Probably amazing compared to a poor country, but it's all relative.
In FF, incognito window, uBlock origin allowed in incognito windows: - google.com is 500kB - twitter.com is 4MB - tiktok.com is 5MB - youtube.com is 6MB - facebook.com is 300kB - Commonwealth's Netbank is 2MB
This is not even considering all the other data you need for using those websites. If your mobile phone and your mobile data is your main source of connectivity, it's really easy to blow through it all just on basic things.
For example, the best overall plan I've used anywhere in the world is in Thailand. You can get unlimited 10Mbit service for $5 a month. The coverage is extremely good even in the mountains or islands, latency is excellent, and I've used over 100 GB without hitting any additional throttles. And that's with AIS. There are cheaper companies and plans if you wanted.
The worst thing being that, of course, the libraries in rich neighborhoods have no homeless people and are generally nicer.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Birmingham * https://www.oodihelsinki.fi/en/ * https://wellcomecollection.org/pages/Wuw19yIAAK1Z3Smm * https://www.gladstoneslibrary.org/
others?
https://www.architectmagazine.com/project-gallery/john-henry...
https://www.library.nashville.org/
PS: +1 to Austin’s library. It’s an incredible space. Grab a coffee at the cafe, and hang out on the beautiful roof terrace. Breathtaking views, and it’s a great place to meet people (and what better people to meet than library people!); PS: they are building a makerspace there too - stay tuned…
A few have managed to keep going (mostly due to the communities taking direct control) and they have done wonders in keep up with the times.
It's a great place, just wish there was free parking.
Boy was I wrong, and I'll happily eat crow for how wrong I was. The new library building is beautiful, super inviting and some of my favorite architecture anywhere. I love going there to work or read. They also do a great job making the building welcoming and accessible to all, while at the same time preventing it from getting trashed by the homeless (looking at you SF public library) with a simple no sleeping/no lying down rule.
Welcoming, inviting public spaces can do very well if people understand why they are desirable.