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Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by roody15 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @01:15PM (#33708899)
Exactly… NFT’s blah blah .. blockchain everything .. came off as like a sales pitch and never seemed to resonant as where the web was headed
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by k__ on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @01:26PM (#33709079)
Web2: you stop paying a cloud provider, your data is gone.

Web3: you stop paying a network, your data stays online. Either because it's permanent by default (blockchain, blockweave) or because people deem it interesting and pin it (IPFS)

Seems like a fundamental improvement to me.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by vkou on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @01:47PM (#33709422)
Web2 - stores exabytes of data.

Web3 - stores a few text files and rotten hyperlinks to jpgs of (if you're lucky) poorly-drawn apes and (if you're unlucky) rugs, while setting billions of dollars on fire.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by k__ on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @01:56PM (#33709559)
I think, you should look into Filecoin and Arweave.

Your assumptions seem to be based on the (rather specific) use-case of art NFTs. They got quite some hype, but to be honest, I didn't get them either.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by this_user on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:07PM (#33709745)
Why exactly would you trust random strangers with your critical data rather than use S3?
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by jhoechtl on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:22PM (#33710014)
In the same sense I trusted my MP3 downloads on eDonkey before the records association played a foul game.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by Godel_unicode on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @04:30PM (#33711784)
s/played a foul game/forced me to pay for what I’d been stealing/

FTFY.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by Dzugaru on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:24PM (#33710052)
There is one reason is that the protocol of storage is open. Doesn't mean the thing can't die obviously, but there is some hope that someone will continue to store the data - there is some incentive (crypto value, however low or unstable that can be) to do that.

Also, nothing stops you from storing the critical data in S3 too. I wouldn't bet what will last longer as a permanent storage.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by vkou on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:22PM (#33710019)
1. Both the mindshare and marketshare of NFTs and similar garbage dwarfs any use of Filecoin.

2. Dropbox and Drive are cheaper and better. S3 is cheaper.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by k__ on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:28PM (#33710106)
1. That's not really an argument. There is literally exabytes of data on Filecoin (https://stats.filecoin.io/d/z6FtI92Zz/filecoin-chain-stats?o...)

2. And gone if you stop paying.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by ceejayoz on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:34PM (#33710192)
> And gone if you stop paying.

Are Filecoin nodes all hosting files for free? I can put a terabyte of files on there and it'll never go away?

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by foobiekr on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @03:20PM (#33710904)
No. That is all a lie.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by vkou on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:32PM (#33710175)
1. That's capacity, that's not usage. I don't care about imagined usage, I care about actual usage.

2. No, it'll just be gone if crypto crashes enough and the miners sell or turn down their hardware (Probably precipitated by some fraud in some other part of the ecosystem unwinding).

There's a reason nobody has built the next Dropbox on Filecoin. [1]

[1] I mean, you can do that, if you have Einstein hair, and your goal is to grift dumb VC money, but you're not going to put together a better product.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by foobiekr on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @03:19PM (#33710892)
This. It is amazing to me that the cult members talk about the fiction as if their take on it is real instead of the reality.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by ok123456 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:04PM (#33709696)
Web3: your data is gone once VCs stop incinerating money into Web3 startups.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by k__ on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:10PM (#33709819)
Yes, I think there aren't many chains that could live on without VC money.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by ceejayoz on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:08PM (#33709772)
> Either because it's permanent by default (blockchain, blockweave)...

https://coloradosun.com/2022/11/21/brush-eastern-colorado-se...

> Two school administrators on Colorado’s Eastern Plains were accused of possessing child pornography when they investigated a school sexting case last April. No one said the men were trying to distribute the images or had bad intent. The girl in the photos and her parents begged police and prosecutors to drop charges against the men. But one of them, 32-year-old Bradley Bass, is facing up to 12 years in prison and the possibility of being branded a sex offender. He’d have to give up his career in education, and wouldn’t be able to parent his toddler and baby boy.

> Bass violated a Colorado law that says even unintentionally possessing explicit images of kids is akin to having child pornography. Even parents could be prosecuted under the broad language of the statute.

That's not gonna be a fun collision between technology and the legal system.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by mschuster91 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:36PM (#33710229)
Good god where has common sense in the police and justice system gone so far off the rails that this came to court and didn't get thrown out immediately?!
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by smoldesu on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:17PM (#33709927)
IPFS isn't Web3
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by Kiro on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:22PM (#33710015)
It's in the Web3 picture in the article.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by k__ on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:25PM (#33710058)
I met many Protocol Labs people on crypto conferences and they pretty much see themselves as one of the core web3 technologies.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by smoldesu on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:28PM (#33710103)
They were very influential to Web3. That being said, it's like saying that BitTorrent is a Web3 protocol just because the general interests/end goals are shared between projects.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by k__ on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:32PM (#33710170)
The creator of BitTorrent also sees himself and his technology as an important part of web3.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by Godel_unicode on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @04:37PM (#33711877)
Which is a pretty solid proof that web3 isn’t a real thing.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by dehrmann on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @03:02PM (#33710634)
How does that retention strategy scale?
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by lottin on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @03:49PM (#33711305)
A fundamental improvement in terms of what? The cloud provider provides a service conditional on being paid, whereas what you call "the network" seems to provide the service for free. Who's paying for the service?
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by spaceman_2020 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:23PM (#33710022)
Paying for things with a crypto wallet is legitimately a far, far better experience than fumbling around with credit cards.

A seamless on-ramp from a bank account to a crypto wallet will really change the way we pay for things online. I believe this on-ramp is coming with CBDCs.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by weego on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:39PM (#33710276)
This is the standard US centric viewpoint driving this nonsense. Every other developed nation and a lot of lower developed nations solved this long enough ago that it's not even thought about.

I have to use my physical card maybe once every 2 months/once per quarter as an anti-fraud step. My phone contactless pays for everything, and anything it can't (like a car or whatever) I can do sub 2 hour but in practice instant bank to bank transfer.

Moving money instantly and without transaction costs is a decade plus ago solved problem

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by spaceman_2020 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:51PM (#33710451)
You do know that international transactions are a thing, right, and that UPI doesn't work globally?
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by ix-ix on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @03:04PM (#33710670)
Yes, but the vast majority of people aren't sending money globally.

And the other commentor is right, using credit cards in any non-american country is super simple and completely without hassle. Same with sending money to anyone I know, I just need their email address or phone number. Happens in seconds, is completely safe and ensured and best of all, reversible if there is a mistake.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by nailer on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @04:49AM (#33717126)
> Moving money instantly and without transaction costs is a decade plus ago solved problem

Where? Having lived in various cities in Europe, Asia and Australia, I can assure you, Visa and Wise and Remitly is still taking from half to 3 percent of all your transactions.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by ehutch79 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:31PM (#33710158)
Uhhh...

For real, who has issues paying with a CC at a register? Or contactless payments?

Don't crypto payments like bitcoin take a bit to go through? Like longer than you'd want someone tying up a cashier line?

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by joneholland on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:30PM (#33710136)
What. Is this trolling?

Modern credit payments from a consumer standpoint is tap a card or a phone on a reader.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by spaceman_2020 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:51PM (#33710460)
With a 2.5% fee to Visa
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by pwinnski on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @04:16PM (#33711625)
Which, in the US, is paid by the vendor, and so invisible. And worth it, given the protections against fraud, etc.

If you're claiming that there are vendors giving a 2.5% discount for using crypto for anything, you've got some evidence to produce.

P.S. It's not always 2.5%, either. Could be 1.5% at scale.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by nailer on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @05:03AM (#33717222)
> If you're claiming that there are vendors giving a 2.5% discount for using crypto for anything, you've got some evidence to produce.

Or more, yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OxtTGml564

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by NovemberWhiskey on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:35PM (#33710214)
>Paying for things with a crypto wallet is legitimately a far, far better experience than fumbling around with credit cards.

... and when you talk about "experience", what do you mean here? I doubt there's a much slicker payment experience than Apple Pay when a vendor supports that, and I'm also pretty sure that my disputing a transaction with Chase is better than an equivalent crypto experience.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by spaceman_2020 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:59PM (#33710592)
I mean paying for things online. Should have mentioned that.

I bought a subscription to a tool called Icy.tools a while back. The sign-up process was as follows:

- Click the "Sign-Up" button on the website - Click the "Sign" button on the web wallet pop-up. - Click "Pay" on the next screen - Click "Approve Transaction" on the web wallet pop up.

That's it. No forms to fill. No emails to share. No credit card info to fill up. An equivalent non-crypto experience would be Sign-up > Share email > Verify email > Fill payment details > Enter OTP on credit card website

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by NovemberWhiskey on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @03:03PM (#33710647)
Apple Pay online payment flow: on the checkout form, click the Apple Pay button. OS pops up a form confirming the payment card, amount, delivery address etc. Put finger on Touch ID sensor to confirm. n.b. the payment card details and address come from your Apple Pay wallet; you don't enter them onto the checkout form.

Apply Pay Express Transit payment flow for e.g. the subway: touch phone to sensor and go.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by pwinnski on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @04:20PM (#33711666)
So are you just so into crypto you've lost track of what real life is like?

I use Sign In with Apple[0], and it's literally a single click which hides my email, and one more click with biometric confirmation for payments. That's... one fewer click than crypto, and was easier to set up than your crypto wallet, without putting my funds at risk.

0. https://developer.apple.com/sign-in-with-apple/

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by mschuster91 on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:33PM (#33710178)
> A seamless on-ramp from a bank account to a crypto wallet will really change the way we pay for things online.

What? Why? Here in Europe, you can just pay with SEPA direct debit. You don't need credit cards or paper checks to pay for stuff, neither in the meatspace nor online. The only thing services like PayPal are good for is fraud protection (for both sides).

So much of what we see in the US financial industry and the workarounds created to bypass their bullshit - anything from "payday loan" places advancing money for a paycheck over paychecks or rent checks themselves to Bitcoin to bypass transaction fees is not just an issue here. Our wages get automatically deposited into our bank accounts, rent gets either automatically sent by your bank or drafted by the lender's bank, and any kind of card transaction is capped at 0.2 (DC)/0.3%(CC) [1].

[1] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015...

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by foobiekr on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @03:22PM (#33710940)
In the us the credit card option has very strong statutory consumer protections. As a rule people should be using credit cards, not debit cards.

I am fascinated by the ridiculous claims that this somehow makes things hard.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by mschuster91 on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @03:57AM (#33716746)
> In the us the credit card option has very strong statutory consumer protections. As a rule people should be using credit cards, not debit cards.

... and pay a lot of interest to their banks as a result. Here in Europe, we don't need to pay interest for credit cards or worry about paying CC bills on time to avoid them, as we have strong consumer protection laws in general and SEPA direct debits can be clawed back no-questions-asked for three days.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by foobiekr on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @02:51PM (#33723720)
That’s not how it works. If you pay it off in the month you pay $0. Maybe don’t be so confident.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by mschuster91 on Thursday November 24, 2022 @03:20AM (#33728920)
> If you pay it off in the month you pay $0.

How many people have the financial discipline or the financial education? Banks are making a truckload of money on that not being the case.

Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by foobiekr on Saturday November 26, 2022 @07:19PM (#33758550)
You’re comparing to debit cards where there is no float at all. You were mistaken in your first post. Just go with it.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by medeshago on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:43PM (#33710329)
I don't know. To pay with google pay I unlock my phone and get it close to a pos. Even here in Chile is rare to find a business that doesn't have contactless payments. Even if I could't use the contactless payment system that uses the same bank that I already have I can pay using a QR code with one of the many wallets that can connect to my bank.
Re:Web 3.0 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to... by strangattractor on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:43PM (#33710330)
You can actually buy stuff with crypto? IBD - first you exchange your crypto for fiat then exchange the fiat for the thing you purchased. Noticed how long Tesla's experiment with direct crypto payment lasted. The dollars I received yesterday will still pretty much buy me what I bought the day before. My $60,000 bitcoin from last year not so much.