And it's only mildly surprising people think this way. The median American does seem to go through an educational system that takes all their money and gives them a diploma without actually providing valuable expertise in anything. But the experience is exactly the opposite for the best immigrants, who only sometimes pay much tuition (PhDs in STEM in particular very rarely pay with anything other than their labor as teaching/research assistants), and gain enormously valuable expertise. It's completely asinine, but perhaps not so surprising.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educatio...
Meanwhile the median voter is probably more excited about college sports than college degrees.
As a citizen of the world, I think there's tremendous value in distributing knowledge and our best ideals all over the world.
Also- the US doesn't owe everybody a citizenship.
167k for Australia (US has almost 13x the population of Australia)
https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/naturaliza...
I had a friend with a CS degree ask if I would marry her because she didn't want to go back to China and couldn't get an H1B.
> most companies don't want to invest in training anyone up anymore
The past four companies I've worked for had training programs for new employees and internship programs to funnel college students into jobs after graduation. Maybe bad experience on your part?
but its a bad and outdated assumption to make, at least for tech
department of labor forces companies to submit compensation data
someone aggregates this on h1bdata.info
(the data is not uniform though, as some companies are including total compensation and this is normalized as “salary”)
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/29/h-1b-visa-a...
But if you don't want to click, you'll find the highest share of H1B per capita in Texas, namely College Station.
This is certainly changing. I myself am moving to a rural area to work remotely and farm.
What should be done is serious scrutiny _before_ someone is admitted. Once they are, the system should get out of their way. A person is working for years at some company, paying their taxes, spotless track record (often not even traffic tickets as they can cause trouble) and yet, they cannot even sponsor for permanent residency themselves. They depend on some company, which has no interest of doing so until the time is close to running out.
- There are many restrictions. H-1B is still coupled to a particular occupation (type of job). Any new job has to remain >50% similar. People on H-1B can also only go to companies that will sponsor their H-1B going forward (so self-employment and most smaller companies are out), and one would not want to go to a company that would not also sponsor the greencard. Transfers in the same company are possible, but even just changes to the job description (e.g. becoming a manager, or switching from devs to ops) or worksite usually require a new PWD (Prevailing Wage Determination) and LCA (Labor Condition Application).
- The processing of H-1B transfers has recently taken around 6 months for some. Theoretically you can switch before the government approves the transfer; practically if the transfer is rejected for whatever arbitrary reason or government error you want to be able to fallback to the existing H-1B. And so it is advisable to wait for the transfer to go through. How many potential new companies are fine with that? (What is the damage to previous companies from people quietly just coasting and waiting for the H-1B transfer to go through due to such delays?)
- Any change also increases the risk of rejections during the next renewal (and people from greencard backlogged countries have to renew every year, for decades at the current rate). How big the risk is depends a lot on federal politics (for example, the prior deference rule was withdrawn during the previous administration, and reinstated during this administration) and can change fast.
- Switching jobs while on H-1B during certain stages of the immigration/greencard process (PWD, PERM, I-140 plus 6 months for AC21 portability) resets that process, and restarting it incurs potentially years-long delays and large expenses (for the company, which is worse). PERM itself may have become harder recently due to changes in the legal landscape and one would not want to give up a successful PERM.
- The risk of layoffs is perceived as greater for new hires than for established engineers. A person on H-1B who is laid off has 60 days to find a new job, or the H-1B ends. So during an economic downturn giving up a solid position is a risk.
I expect disagreement from many who’d flip viewpoints if the shoe changed feet.
One of the reasons that immigration and green cards has always been such a hot-button political issue in the US is that first and second generation immigrants tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat. You end up with this awkward feedback loop where D's are objectively politically motivated to increase immigration, while for R's it's the opposite. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, that's just how it was explained to me once.
I also said because the GOP has racist policies, it’s actively hostile to immigrants.
Your oversimplification is a straw man.
I actually got my H1B at my 2nd try. I did not get pick at my 1st try and had to wait until next year but it went quite smoothly. However for my GC, it took 4 years between the initial conversation with my employer and getting it in my hands. The actual process itself, from the moment the lawyers received all the documents, took 2 years.
I used to work with someone whose visa was about to expire so the company just filed a GC to keep her.
That being said, I feel like these things change all the time. When people describe the current H1B process it always seems completely different from the one I went through.
And those documents can anyway only be applied if already in the country, and once your I-485 is current and I-140 is approved, which for Indians/Chinese/Filipinos means a >10 year wait, and for everyone else means a >1 year wait while PWD, PERM and I-140 process. Large companies can shorten the PWD/PERM wait a bit, but that does little for the backlogged countries and those not already inside the US.
There is no _realistic_ employment based path to a greencard that does not go through a non-immigrant visa.
Also, the work permit processing times have been extremely backlogged over the past year. It is getting better, but I have personally seen a greencard arrive after about a year recently, and the corresponding work permit arrive a week _later_ (useless, by then).
And if you look at large scale statistics available in immigrant communities, you can see approvals are all over the place, with no rhyme or reasons - some people get it in months, for some it takes years. There is no predictability.
Filed I-485 in 2020. Still pending. It's currently way more than one year. Some 2022 filers are getting it in a matter of months, but older applications are taking forever.
> The work permit (I-765) does not allow you to enter the US, only to work when already legally in the country (for example, via an H-1B).
H1B allows one to work, by itself. If you get a I-765(aka EAD) and you use that, you immediately lose your H1B status. Which is fine as long as your application is pending. If your I-485 subsequently gets denied, you have to leave and you just lost your shot. Game over. You have to start again from scratch. Assuming you didn't incur in too much unauthorized stay, as you'll get hit with retroactive unauthorized stay.
Most H1B holders do not use their EAD because of that. Note that it's different from the EAD you get as a L2 (spouse of L1). That one doesn't mess with your status. Unless you get EAD pursuant to your green card application. That one messes with your status.
Same with advance parole. H and L visas don't need that to travel.
You can get your H1B status back if you file for an extension.
It's kind of like hanging out in a fancy restaurant's bar in hopes that they'll be able to get you a table.
If it was strictly a non-immigrant visa, then you cannot get a green card. Ever. You need some other type of visa that's either an immigrant visa(like marriage) or some other dual-intent visa.
That's one thing that many americans don't understand. "He's lived in the US for 50 years, why didn't he become a citizen?!" Because, for most people, they have no path.
I have observed that this misunderstanding is widespread, for what it’s worth. Dual intent merely means intending to immigrate isn’t a disqualification, but that still requires getting some sort of additional immigrant visa.
It is a bit of a pain point because it is sometimes used in discussions by people who are against immigration to suggest that "those people" on H-1B's/L-1's should not immigrate, should not expect to immigrate, and should have known better because they "are on a non-immigrant visa" and should have simply chosen a different path. Nevermind that this _is_ more or less the only realistic way to do employment based immigration, and by far the most common one. One might consider it a bit of an anti-immigrant dog whistle. (I am not accusing you of this, just explaining why you may have gotten that reaction.)
It is, however, entirely incorrect to say that immigrating _requires_ an immigrant visa. There are two ways of becoming an immigrant:
1. From outside the US, by applying for an immigrant visa at a consulate, and then presenting the immigrant visa at a port of entry. The officer may then admit the alien in the LPR (lawful permanent resident) status.
2. From inside the US, by petitioning USCIS to adjust the status to that of an LPR. There is no immigrant visa in this case.
In general, a visa is used to legally enter the country, and status is used to legally be in the country. They are entirely separate, with different expiration dates, physically separate stamps/stickers and all (see https://www.google.com/search?q=visa+stamp+and+admission+sta...). For example, a person can present an H-1B visa (a sticker in the passport, plus a stack of paper) at a port of entry, then be admitted in H-1B status (and usually get a stamp over the sticker at that time). However, while using a visa is one way to gain a status, it is not the only way. And visa do not correspond 1:1 to statuses.
The two different ways to become an LPR are very different in terms of process, which agency to petition, processing time, availability, conditions while waiting, options if denied, cost etc. So those really cannot be mixed up.
And so, yes, one can immigrate with only a non-immigrant visa such as an H-1B. That is an officially supported function of the system. And for employment based immigration, that is the normal way to do it. Therefore the more descriptive name "dual-intent visa" is rather useful in the context of employment based immigration, even though the proper classification is "non-immigrant visa". Whereas even if it is formally a "non-immigrant visa", it can be useful to say that in practice it is not really a "non-immigrant visa" but a "dual-intent visa".
I think the citizens in the US have a right to decide as a polity how they want to structure their immigration policies. However, in order to make a good decision, it is important to start with the full context. Here are some facts:
US has 46.6 million in foreign born population and a total population of 333 million. [1][2] That makes about 13.9% of the total population to be foreign born.
Australia has 29.1% of its population that is foreign born. [3]
A little over 20% of the population of Canada is foreign born and it is projected to grow. [4]
[1] https://cis.org/Camarota/ForeignBorn-Population-Hits-Record-...
[2] https://www.census.gov/popclock/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_Aus...
[4] https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/dai/btd/othervisuals/other006
The US has the most nonsensical immigration laws for skilled workers of the developed world. Even Japan or Korea are pretty straightforward in comparison.
https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-2-part-m-chapter-...
The system is unbelievably cruel. People die (or see their loved ones die) before they get greencards.
It is not a numbers game. If you can attract the best, you need to let them thrive instead of enslaving them.
People die before many things, that's not really relevant and it's just an emotional statement. Compare the length and rate to other countries for an actual assessment.
A lot countries I've looked into take 5-10 years for citizenship, the US is 14.5 months on average.
I'm talking about the amount of immigrants taken in vs other countries. Yes the US is large and can take in a lot of immigrants, and we do, by far.
Just straight off the bat you need to be a resident for 5 years before you can even apply for citizenship ( https://www.uscis.gov/forms/explore-my-options/become-a-us-c... ).
The full process is the better part of a decade in the best case (e.g. expensive lawyers, STEM degree, immigrating from an easy country like Canada). If you're from a country like China or India where lots of other people are also applying for those slots - or if anything else is less than optimal - you're looking at between a decade+ and never.
The sentence structure though seems to imply marrying solely for status, which is fraud, and reflects very poorly on both applicant and petitioner. This kind of thing definitely happens which is why it takes 2 years for the honest applicants to get though, as the immigration system doesn't do a sufficient job filtering out fraud at the beginning stages of the petition and leaves too much of that work at the end of the petition stage (interview) which is where the biggest bottleneck is.
source: personal experience as petitioner
The set of countries you want to compare with are the countries that claim they want to welcome immigrants. You don't want to compare with countries that you like but are hostile.
America claims to be immigrant friendly but compared to other immigrant friendly nations, the process is brutal and eats away entire lives.
> A lot countries I've looked into take 5-10 years for citizenship, the US is 14.5 months on average.
This is misinformation as citizenship petition N-400 is merely the last step. This does not count the time for green card before this. Getting a green card could take 3-10 years. Then, they'd need to remain a permanent resident for 5 years before they can even apply for citizenship.
https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/how-long-doe...
Total time is 18.5-24 months to wrap up everything, but the 14.5 months you're able to be in the US which is what matters.
How does that compare to other countries? What's your ideal country that has the best immigration times?
- edit -
Green card from nil is also just a year or so on average, in which case you are living in the US and able to work.
These numbers are very comparable and much better than most countries. Please provide your ideal country so we can compare numbers.
Current green card wait times are approximately 10 years[1] right now. Given the length of the green card wait time you usually need some other visa (such as H1B) that will allow you to still live in the USA before you can actually apply for green card.
Currently the H1B lottery approves less than half of the people who apply.
So if you are trying to immigrate from India you are looking at: H1B (1-4 years depending lottery luck) Green Card (10+ years) Time to become US citizen (1-2 years from what you posted)
So as a highly skilled advanced degree holder from India (the case of this Tweet) the overall time is 12-16 years and that is still no guarantee due to H1B being a lottery.
[1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/green-car... (See EB-2 and EB-3)
54 years for eb2/eb3. And that was 2019 backlog. Covid should've added half a decade more
https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/immigratio...
https://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart...
> The time it takes to become a permanent resident varies dramatically, affected by many factors such as USCIS processing, visa availability, labor certification/background check delays, the applicant's qualifications, nationality, residence, profession, luck, and so on. Most people are probably looking at 5 - 15 years. Some also spent several years in a nonimmigrant status prior to starting the immigration process. After green card, add roughly 5 - 7 years towards citizenship
In addition to the time, as others said there's a high probability the path will fail for most. The process starts with winning a visa that allows you to immigrate (tourist/business/student visas don't count). I say "win" because you need to find a company willing to pay and apply for that on your behalf, go through a lottery based on degree to see if you even get the opportunity to apply, and then hope the application isn't rejected on the grounds of the job being something a U.S. citizen can do. if you studied in the U.S., you get 1-2 more years to work under your student visa on what's called "Optional Practical Training" to convince your employer you're worth the hassle of sponsoring an immigration visa. Once you have that visa (e.g., an H-1B visa), you have 3 years to try rise to a senior position and convince your employer that you are valuable enough to splurge on a green card application. If that fails, you can apply for a 3 year extension and try again. If that also fails, you must leave the country for at least a year, and start over. If you succeed, you wait some number of years depending on your birth country and quotas imposed on each before you get the chance to start applying for a green card and get this process rolling. Hence 10-22 years, for those lucky few who didn't get rejected at any of the aforementioned points.
That's what the link is talking about.
AFTER you qualify, that's the time it takes for just the paperwork to go through. The easiest path to qualify is marriage, which takes about 3 years - 90 days. That also has a similar processing time for the paperwork.
Please, go learn a bit more about the system. You don't know anything about the subject.
Year 6 here in the US, need to wait another 5 for the chance of becoming a citizen.
What’s that path you are talking about?
The system is different for everyone. It depends on visa types, country of origin and a bunch of other factors.
Also, the 14.5 months on average is just the time it takes for USCIS to process the N400 application for naturalization. The actual time it takes for the naturalization is 18-24 months. And the biggest part that comes before you apply for naturalization for most immigrants is to obtain a Greencard, which takes the longest time, in some cases more than a few decades.
Not even close. Heck, _permanent residency_ applications take longer than that. If your PERM gets audited, that step alone can eat more than one year. Even without that, 14.5 years for _residency_ would be shockingly fast. Some countries (like India) have a 100 year backlog, give or take a few decades.
After you get permanent residency, add 5 more years. 3 years if married to a USC.
There's NO WAY that any form of citizenship takes 14.5 months.
No. I am talking about the constant asking for paperwork, processing times that vary from 2 months to over 2 years and preventing people from traveling to their home countries, lest they get locked out.
This is how criminals are treated.
What would your ideal processing time be that wouldn't be "criminal"?
IRRELEVANT
There's no reason why you should be prevented from traveling just because you applied for some document.
Next you'll argue that noone is being prevented from traveling, technically. Don't bother.
There's also no reason to require the _employer_ to handle all immigration matters. The initial application? Sure. But then allow the employer to file for his permanent residency. Let them file for visa extensions. Let them transfer employers without risk. Maybe get another source of income. _Let the spouses work!_ There's no reason to limit a household to a single income. And so on. That's how its done in many countries in Europe.
You may say "you should go to those countries then". Many have. But you don't know the full extent of the issue until you are in the system. At which time you have relocated your family, upended your life, and staked your career in the system.
EU is not one country. Some countries have better timelines than others.
> What would your ideal processing time be that wouldn't be "criminal"?
My ideal would be asap. Make the decision quick. If you want to deny most applications, deny it. But do it quick.
There's nothing that says quick retries are allowed, or that subsequent tries should even be adjudicated quickly. Take H1Bs. If you get selected and subsequently denied, you can only apply next year.
Some types of visas require a cooldown period outside the country after you have used them. And so on. This is all solvable.
Go ahead and choose one or so and come back with numbers to compare. You'll find the US is very good in comparison.
On the other hand, as a global citizen with multiple passports who hasn't lived in the US for some time, maybe this is a good thing for the rest of the world. Spreading innovation out a bit and allowing other countries to thrive. Growing up in an immigrant family, I always had a sense of diversity being America's strength. But the last decade or so the US seems to have lost sight of the value of diversity. Not completely, but in many ways, partially thanks to US hegemony and the export of the English language, Europe is currently the cultural melting pot I idealized the US as growing up.
I think the world would truly be a more peaceful and thriving place if every country were more culturally integrated.
Anyway, I'm rambling now... </soapbox>