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Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Animats on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:34PM (#32255620)
The key point here is that TikTok is now beating all the US social networks.

This may be the beginning of the end for what Silicon Valley calls "tech", but is just ads with social content. Peak Facebook was in Q2 2021.[1] Instagram is losing to TikTok.

(If you think the "metaverse" is going to be important in the social space, check out what's happening in China in that area. While the US has been distracted by the NFT clown car and Facebook's rather pathetic efforts, companies in China are actually building it.)

[1] https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2022/02/peak-facebook.html

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by biztos on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:13PM (#32257056)
I'm a huge admirer of TikTok and love to use it -- once a week only! -- but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary.

However I find it baffling that all the VC in the Global West is unable to come up with a popular alternative, even though it's glaringly obvious[0] what the "secret sauce" is in TikTok and why it works so well.

Instead we get stuff like this, where a quite good photo-sharing service radically undermines its inherent advantages in order to play catch-up, with most of the videos still sporting a TikTok logo.

At some level I'm happy if Zuckerberg destroys my artists' community on IG because it at least opens the door to creating a better one elsewhere. But I'm also a little worried that this coterie of billionaires keeps having their lunch eaten by a pretty straightforward system run on a pretty classic Valley model.

[0]: https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/a16z-podcast/tiktoks-al...

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0mas88 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:23PM (#32257185)
> but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary.

In a way Europe has been doing that for many years. The US does not have any privacy protection of foreigners, the NSA is only not supposed to capture data on US citizens.

Only now are we seeing Google Analytics banned in many European countries. But it's a very small step.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Zeebrommer on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:54PM (#32257528)
That is not nearly the same thing. The US and western Europe have been roughly aligned about geopolitical interests, values (democracy, freedom, mostly liberal, based on a secularising Christian foundation), rules and laws. China is diametrically opposed on all those things.

The cultural influence of the US on Europe is enormous, and the US has often crossed the line spying on European citizens, but the US is not an adversary.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by krageon on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:37AM (#32262234)
The only values the US and the EU align on are brutal profiteering at the expense of overseas territories. If anything, I kind of hope that China replaces the US as the influential friend and we get less of this war apologism. The US is a big bully and at every turn where it has influenced EU culture the EU has become objectively worse. For it's own citizens, for any foreign powers interacting with it, the works.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by innocentoldguy on Monday August 01, 2022 @12:18AM (#32302015)
I don't think the opposition is as diametric as you may think, when it comes to values. I've been to China several times and from my perspective, US liberalism has embraced quite a lot of Communist China's values and behaviors. For example:

1. Committing acts of violence against people they don't agree with.

2. Silencing opposing opinions.

3. Media and political propaganda, projection, and gaslighting.

4. Vilifying segments of society.

5. A tiered justice system.

6. Consequentialism.

7. Destruction of history to fit a modern narrative.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by orangepurple on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:34PM (#32257318)
Wait until Europeans find out all of their bank data is analyzed in the Google Cloud
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:07PM (#32257659)
Not that bad as Chinese investments in European universities. Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous.

Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition.

However... Both trends has similar goal to steal freedom from citizens.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:59AM (#32261258)
>Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition.

Why ? political correctness in progressive-dominated spcaces like western uni campuses goes back to the 70s/80s. I was browsing Ted Kaczynski's (better known as the UnaBomber) Industrial Society and Its Future[1], and he spoke about political correctness as an established thing. A 40-year phenomenon seems like something that won't end anytime soon.

>Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge. Not all of china is a single brain, maybe the people funding european universities have meaningful ideological differences from the ruling class. And the blanket usage of "democratic principles" irritates me hugely, because most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power.

[1] http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto...

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:53AM (#32264293)
>Why ?

Because ideology is wrong.

>..because most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham...

I wouldn't argue with that, but advantage of free society is that you, as individual, can do something about it. In totalitarian state your attempts to change something that is against state ideology would be suppressed. If we, in democratic states, let others people do nasty things, than it is only because we let them to do it. Is it laziness? Is it lack of responsibility? Or maybe that image that media told us every day... "Don't stick your nose here and there, you wouldn't be able to change anything anyway. Stay scared."

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:21AM (#32265539)
>Because ideology is wrong.

I have no objections to political correctness being wrong, I was contradicting the claim that it's something that's going away.

>If we, in democratic states, let others people do nasty things, than it is only because we let them to do it

Or because they have vastly more wealth, status and connections than you, and can crush you like a bug (totally legally) if you ever went anywhere near them. That's why you can't do anything, not because you choose not to. Democracy is theatre, it doesn't change the fundamental power structure since Ancient Egypt and Babylon. There is an upper caste, and you're not one of them.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:21PM (#32266467)
Honestly, I don't want to be one of elites. I believe in different values than being rich or powerful. If that is your goal in life, then sure, democracy could look like theater.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by boppo1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:20AM (#32262101)
>most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power

I agree with this on a knee-jerk, but it still seems to me 'the west' is different from China, Russia, etc. Why do I feel that, what's the source?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:56AM (#32262748)
Very concisely: The Media. Every election in a western nation is a huge circus, every referendum a secular holy day. Every elected official speaks of "the people", that mythical monolith who has a True Will that votes supposedly represent. It's a massive dose of ego-stroking deference, it can be hard to see all this and not think you're in some kind of control, after all, you're a voter, and those people speak very reverently of voters, so you must be in charge, right ?

In truth, not only votes are a placebo that doesn't measure anything but the crudest of desires, and not only those worthless votes are further made worthless and pointless by the fact that vast hordes of uncoordinated humans are exceptionally easy to manipulate and control to give their votes to anything, much more than individuals or small groups. The reality is that votes and elections just don't matter. Bush didn't need votes to invade Iraq, he just went ahead and did it. The vast vast majority of anything done by an elected official is due to his or her very own desire (modulo reality, of which you as a voter are not part of untill the next election). Democracy is just tyranny except there are multiple competing tyrants (not a novel feature) and you get an extremly small chance to depose the tyrant every n years.

"But Term Limits" oh you think 4 or 6 years in office aren't enough to form connections and make favors that can last you 20 outside the office ? "But Free Press" oh okay (1) lol, look at who owns the press (2) what good is a voice that can't affect things, you scream and rage and cry and then what ? someone comes along and convinces you they can solve this problem, For Real This Time^TM, and you vote them into office (if you manage a majority) and after an intial 100 days of theatrics, nothing.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:42AM (#32264163)
You name only negative side of democratic system. Which is good, because you can. That is one of visible principles of democracy. You wouldn't be able to speak publicly like that in China.

But... Do not forget about positive aspects of personal freedoms, individual rights, etc.

Btw, what is a perfect system for you?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:54AM (#32265182)
>That is one of visible principles of democracy. You wouldn't be able to speak publicly like that in China.

This is the "Helpless Voice" aspect, 'democracy' allowed you to scream at the top of your lungs about how it sucks, giving you the illusion that you're more free than you really are. Imagine if Putin made it legal to insult him on the streets, would that make it any less of a totalitarianism ?

>Btw, what is a perfect system for you?

I'm not sure there is a word for it, anarcho-primitivism is the closest thing, although I don't necessarily agree with them that technology is fundamentally centralized or coercive. Basically, I think that all the ills of society is due to the fundamental idea, the preversion really, of living with people you don't know. That is, to fix society, you have to destroy society, it's a fundamentally unfixable idea. You can't make people who don't feel kinship to each other play by any set of rules. Here's me arguing this from an older comment of mine:

-------------------------

>>>I'm a techno-primitivist, I believe political units should be extremely small, extremely numerous, with an emphasis on blood ties as the ultimate guarantee of group cohesion and loyalty. I have a burning hatred for and deep distrust of any political unit with more than 1000 persons. There is no way to make a social organization of >1000 persons consistently fair, the rules are always arbitrary and ad hoc, a few assholes always play the meta-game and find ways around them, and somebody is always oppressed and bullied and consistently given the shorter end without a way to be heard.

Family is different, affinity for genetic similarity is deeply hardwired into your lowest level circuits, very few assholes can find their way around the rules evolution built. Every single social organization is a prisoner's dilemma come alive, why cooperate with that stranger you're never going to see again? The answers are always arbitrary and subject to abuse and evasion : Because God, Because Emperor, Because CEO, Because General. Family is the only social unit where the rules stem from your very being : Because Evolution, the very factory that built you, that encoded your love and respect for your own flesh and blood as deep inside as it encoded your liver and kidneys.

In another, and better, universe, we never built nations or states or parliaments or public school systems, every family is an autonomous unit under the leadership of its bread winner, and federations of families handle cross-cutting concerns in a way that leaves as much power to the families as possible.

-------------------------

Here's another comment of mine from a different forum, arguing the same point in a slightly more colorful (and angry) tones :

-------------------------

>>>Imagine You live in a cramped and inferior society among countless nameless millions like farm chattel. You are controlled by monstrous alien entities called States, composed of people like animal bodies are composed of cells, caring about the welfare of people exactly as much as animals care about the welfare of their cells : not at all, unless relevant to their survival.

You were not built for this perversity, for hundreds of thousands of years your ancestors lived among people whose very flesh and blood was molded out of the same language as them. Nobody needed to craft rules on how to live with each other; or rather, nobody needed to craft rigid and easily exploitable set-in-stone (or paper or computer memory) rules. You started with the willingness to live with each other, and a natural affection only life born out of itself can hold, and the rules trickled down and evolved as needed. You look upon ants and bees, they are marvellous in their numerousy and organization, but you're not like them, your place is to live among a hundred or a thousand of your kin, governing no one but your kin, and being governed by no one but them.

The society you live in is a poor imitation of ants and bees. Everytime you complain someone points to some numbers and explains how they have gone up, how it's good that they go up, how your complaints are misguided and irrational because the only thing that matter is numbers going up, and the societies you're nostalgic for are societies where those numbers have not gone up, and thus can't be worth living in.

Can you imagine that ? Some of us don't have to, because we're living it. If you're not, count yourself lucky that you adapted to the life of ants and bees, but don't dismiss or make fun of those who long for the long lost life of humans.

-------------------------

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by pukexxr on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:36PM (#32268455)
Nihilist anarchism and Max Stirner may be up your alley. The Wolfi Landstriecher translation is the one you want.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by krageon on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:38AM (#32262244)
Ah yes, democracy. Is that when you fire up the tanks and shoot natives until they tell you you're a big boy? Or is it the terror campaign of school drone strikes after?
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:17AM (#32263278)
you can have an acceptable domestic government that had made unacceptable mistakes in foreign policies.

It does not change the validity of democracy if democratic nations make mistakes.

And it does not legitimize a tyrannical government just because democracies have made mistakes.

Edit: I'll double down. The whole point of democracies is to hold our governments accountable for those mistakes, something that is (at least by design) much harder in non-democratic governments.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by krageon on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:14AM (#32264570)
If you want me to actually engage with any of this you're going to have to give me a little help understanding how someone arguing in good faith can imply the US government has ever been held accountable in a way that changed anything about how it operated. From where I'm standing, that descends so far into fantasy we may as well be playing D&D.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:01AM (#32265281)
I'm not implying anyone has ever been held accountable. And nothing I said is less true despite that.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by colonwqbang on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:33PM (#32257310)
You have a point, but the way Europeans see the US is very different from how they see China. The US has done some morally questionable things in recent memory (War on terror, Snowden/Assange, Trump, etc) but on the whole US is seen as an ally, not an adversary.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @08:43PM (#32259063)
Only for politicians, it’s been 20 years that I haven’t met an European who consider the us an ally, and I’ve lived in Uk Germany Netherlands and Italy, but so far we’ve voted US allying politicians because of the threat of nationalist parties, but at least in Italy is about to change due to the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to us
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by ramblerman on Thursday July 28, 2022 @01:58AM (#32260910)
> I haven’t met an European who consider the US an ally,

What hyperbole. There are plenty, myself included. Don't confuse criticism of the US with us not being an ally.

> the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to US

??? The finger is clearly pointed at Putin and Germany's naivity over the past 10 years for this mess we are in.

I'd be curious to read a European publication that even suggests this is due to the US (if you have a link).

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:19AM (#32263310)
currently in the US, Fox is blaming Biden. That might be enough for some, esp any Russian apologists.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:31AM (#32264030)
For the whole of Trump administration, he was really good at making peace when things where going south, he never said that he would protect for example Taiwan directly in case of attack of China.

I miss Trump so much, like he was a issue for US , but the rest of the world just could have a laugh and live in peace

It was Obama that started poking Putin saying that he was at the end of a medium power, and it is Biden that is giving all the weapons asked to Ukraine without even asking for a way to de-escalate and find a compromise, it is Biden that is letting Ukrainian lose territory and life just for weakening Russia for US interests

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:43AM (#32264182)
Threatening withdrawal from NATO, withholding Ukrainian defense aid, and not promising to defend Taiwan are not positive features for many in the USA.

As a personal example, the Russian invasion of Ukraine was obvious back in 2014 (read accidental superpower). As is the eventual annexation of Taiwan. Both are not the kinds of actions I like to see in the world and support efforts to reduce the occurance of those actions. European nations are aiding Ukraine as well, this not a unilateral US action.

I also don't support prolonged invasion of Afghanistan by the US, just in case you're wondering.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:52AM (#32264284)
>> Threatening withdrawal from NATO, withholding Ukrainian defense aid, and not >> promising to defend Taiwan are not positive features for many in the USA.

Correct, in the USA, It it NONE of the world problem, like in EU we have done business with Russia for decades without issues, we got gas, companies got energy and everyone was happy, except US, of course Europeans are also supporting it (politicians) but they are doing it without going through people, they didn't campaign for it, and if everything goes well, they will see the effect of their loyalty to US interest at next elections

I just wanted to say that USA interest are likely to match the interest of EU, but it is not always, EU interests were more likely to keep making business with Russia in peace

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by smileysteve on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:25AM (#32265601)
> It it NONE of the world problem, like in EU we have done business with Russia for decades without issues

Eyes in Ukraine, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Poland - and the Baltic States.

A reminder that Russias invasion of Ukraine violates the 1994 Budapest Agreement.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:29PM (#32266575)
A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders.

When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-...

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by _kbh_ on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:55PM (#32271032)
> A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders.

This is a persistent rumour, but despite what people want to say even Gorbachev himself says no such promise was made.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-...

But this begs the question, why does the west have to abide by imaginary agreements but Russia is allowed to violate the Budapest agreement?.

> When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-...

Western is hardly on the Russian border it’s probably the furthest from Russia you could get in Ukraine.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by colonwqbang on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:16PM (#32270729)
There is a deep inconsistency in your argument. Countries bordering Russia should not join NATO as doing so would be a provocation. Yet Russia has shown that they are happy to invade bordering countries (who are not in NATO) and blow their people to bits. How do you think the people in Finland, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine view this situation? What is their right to self-determination worth?
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:04AM (#32264440)
I'm surprised to hear that. Though, I expect your opinion might not be the only one in the European continent. If you can believe the EU polls, support for Ukraine's defense is quite high: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2772

So, either those surveys are lies, or the US has somehow brainwashed EU's citizens, or there actually is broad European support for aiding Ukraine in its defense, sanctioning Russia including reducing Oil and Gas purchases, and welcoming Ukraine into the EU in time.

I don't know where you live, but it is entirely possible that there will be backlash in your country or district, while still maintaining the general support for what's going on across the broader EU.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:32AM (#32265716)
I am italian, and we have always had a good relationship with Russia, either for energy, housing, boats, textile, etc. so a lot of people were not happy of this whole situation
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:43AM (#32265885)
Well, I'm glad there's a diversity of opinions and hope there's healthy debate and a reasonable outcome is reached that minimizes the suffering and maximizes the personal agency of all parties. Peace is always the best, but not always possible.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:22PM (#32266477)
Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do?

So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now.

While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by _kbh_ on Friday July 29, 2022 @03:36AM (#32274097)
> Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do?

You are pretty much saying that Ukrainian sovereignty doesn't matter and the Zelensky shouldn't try to defend his country but instead roll over, and let Russia, loot rape and kill whatever they want.

Russia must face a decisive defeat on the battlefield, good news is it looks like this may happen, Ukraine will retake Kherson soon, and they can even easily reach Crimea from there.

> So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now.

The only way to stop this happening again, is to do the opposite, supply the heaviest weapons possible to Ukraine and push back Russia with such force that even blinking in Ukraines direction becomes unthinkable in the future.

> While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment

It's easy to say this when it's not your people, country or friends getting killed annex and genocided.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by LoveMortuus on Friday July 29, 2022 @05:17AM (#32274699)
I wish US would just leave the EU alone...
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Friday July 29, 2022 @11:25AM (#32278166)
How does one draw the line between normal politics and, I guess, meddling? I'm not sure what is being implied by the US not "leaving EU alone"
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by ryanwaggoner on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:00PM (#32259186)
That’s probably more about who you spend time with, as a very strong majority of Europeans surveyed view the US as an ally and have an overall positive view: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-...
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:15PM (#32259280)
I’ve seen citizen burning cities when there were Americans involved, just think about the g7 and g8 and ttip protests, I really don’t believe polls, but we’ll see upcoming elections I guess
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by solarkraft on Thursday July 28, 2022 @07:30AM (#32262942)
> it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary.

You mean an adversary from China rather than an adversary from the US?

There's a small, but not that significant advantage in having the company having ~questionable~ societal effects be from your own country, especially if you're not going to regulate them anyway.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by alchemyromcom on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:10PM (#32257013)
>This may be the beginning of the end for what Silicon Valley calls "tech"

There's something about the way you phrased this that just made me just realize there's a very real possibility that the internet could turn into television part two. If you think about the most popular platforms, they are mostly video and now the other very popular ones are trying to follow in kind. There's also all the streaming platforms that are not really thought of as the internet, but work basically the same. It really might be that the internet as we think of it--text based--might be a bit of a niche interest (not that this is necessarily a bad thing).

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by robotshmobot on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:39PM (#32257368)
>There's something about the way you phrased this that just made me just realize there's a very real possibility that the internet could turn into television part two.

My friend, we're already there.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lotsofpulp on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:53PM (#32257520)
How? I can enter any URL I want and go to any page I want. Anyone can start a website, and I can effortlessly visit it.

Does not seem at all comparable to being locked into what some bosses at a cable/satellite TV/TV channel company decide you have access to, at the time they say you can access it. With no ability to upload.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by sssilver on Thursday July 28, 2022 @04:40AM (#32261794)
You can, but will you? Or will you type keywords into a search box and trust a company’s ranking to just land you on the URL?

And if that’s how 99.9% of users are experiencing the internet, how is that not a TV?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Finnucane on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:54PM (#32257536)
5 billion channels and nothing to watch.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by eruleman on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:56PM (#32257553)
A text-based internet is mostly a relic of low broadband penetration.

Video is more engaging than text for most people.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by anothernewdude on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @08:02PM (#32258746)
I see a video, I think "ugh, a fucking video."

Articles are so much better at giving information, it's crazy to me that people bother with video.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lotsofpulp on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:01PM (#32257600)
Boggles my mind how. Unless it is an arts and crafts or mechanical or some other hands on video, it is so inefficient to watch someone talk rather than just read the transcript.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Karrot_Kream on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @08:02PM (#32258749)
It's well known that not everyone does best with text. It's why most college lectures have a text/notes, a lecture, and a discussion component. Some value the interactivity of the discussion, some the audio of the lecture, and others the text itself. For the longest time the internet mostly gave value to people who preferred to interact in text. Now the internet is wide open to give value to people who prefer interacting in discussion, video, audio, and more.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by eruleman on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:10PM (#32257679)
Most people don't judge content based on information density.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by GekkePrutser on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:44PM (#32258576)
I do. My time is valuable. And text is also much easier to archive for future reference.

It's also much easier to skip through parts in a written document because you can see the context before and after easily on a written text. Whereas with video you have this kind of catch up every time you skip.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by wruza on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:01AM (#32260924)
It’s not the only difference. If I think along with a video/audio, I lose tracks quickly and have to rewind, but there is no obvious cue to where. Text has a fundamental property of being in sync with whatever level of attention I’m paying to its parts. Talk doesn’t have it.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by tarsinge on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:33AM (#32261106)
TikTok and IG are mostly for entertainment not for learning, not sure how efficiency apply. Also we are talking about an instant stream of short clips, not old school YT where launching a video requires clicking and waiting.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by oldsecondhand on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:02PM (#32257608)
However creating text content is much cheaper than video, and I also don't see text comments replaced by video replies.

Text is also easier to search both for humans (skimming) and computers. "This meeting could have been an email" also applies to entertainment.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Karrot_Kream on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @08:05PM (#32258770)
Human attention generally isn't zero sum like that, so I've always been puzzled by this perceived "war" against text on the internet. People who previously didn't want to interact in text probably only used the internet sparingly or only used the internet for certain tasks. I've always been great at interacting with texts but had a strict rule not to try to learn mechanical skills on the internet and checkout picture books from the library, or better yet ask an experienced friend/professional. Now I can pop up Youtube and find out how an electrician changes outlets in a home. I now strictly do more things on the internet.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by fragmede on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:49PM (#32259517)
> Human attention generally isn't zero sum like that

How so? There's only 24 hours in a day, and so many things to do in them. During those hours, one can pay attention to multiple topics but even then, the time limit means only so many details and thinking time can be acquired during them.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Karrot_Kream on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @11:03PM (#32260043)
That's where "like that" comes from. We're certainly not at the point where our attention is theoretically maximized.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jsemrau on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:38PM (#32257362)
TBH, for me this is already happening. I am mostly using Youtube as a source of news and information. News, there are many local news services of places that I lived in that I can't watch on "normal" TV and can now enjoy in this way. Summary of sport events check). Opinion panels on video games and movies (check)

The discovery algo is still terrible. But the content is there.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by NCC1701DEngage on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:03PM (#32257623)
You watch any of the TLDR channels for news? I just found them not too long ago.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by ratg13 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:32AM (#32262204)
>Instagram is losing to TikTok.

Is KitchenAid losing to Tesla? Is BNSF losing to PepsiCo?

These statements are only valid if you think the two things should be comparable.

The backlash is because people want them to be separate, and to serve separate purposes.

The people at Facebook controlling Instagram are making this comparison, but to me (and probably many other people), this is more akin to KitchenAid building an electric car to compete with Tesla, while simultaneously dismantling their kitchenware department.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by dbbk on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:27AM (#32263983)
It's just so frustrating. Tech has this "winner takes all" mentality, there can only be one app to rule them all. That's what people are revolting against here... "make Instagram Instagram again".

I don't understand why Facebook just cannot accept that different apps have different use cases for different people. They're already one of the biggest tech companies in the whole world. Why is that not enough? Is it greed?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by RobbieGM on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:25AM (#32265597)
> Is it greed?

What did you expect from Facebook?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by alexb_ on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:47PM (#32255830)
What are Chinese companies doing metaverse wise?
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by edm0nd on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:19PM (#32256316)
Likely waiting on stolen metaverse R&D from American companies given to them from the Chinese government. That's the entire Chinese nation-state backed hackers MO. Steal R&D from Fortune 500 companies to then give it to private Chinese businesses to further the Chinese economy. Why waste your own time/money/resources on R&D when you can just steal it. Same with IP and IP laws.

- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinese-hackers-took-trillions-...

- https://fortune.com/2021/04/21/suspected-chinese-hackers-tar...

- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/china-technolo...

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by asdff on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:44PM (#32256676)
I don't blame them tbh. On a whole species level, why are we inventing the wheel hundreds of separate times just to satisfy pedantic legalese? Any alien observing earth would think we are idiots and clearly nothing to be worried about because we do stuff like this, in the name of profits usually, instead of just sharing ideas openly with each other.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by FredPret on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:51PM (#32256775)
Actually it's pretty smart to reward the inventive ones and punish the freeloaders, or else there'd be a rush to become a freeloader and stop the hard work of inventing - leading to species-wide collapse.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by asdff on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:54PM (#32256817)
The reward of a novel invention is enough to keep it going. Look at science. All ideas are published and shared and you don't have this freeloader issue, because the rewards follow innovation even when those innovations are pubically shared. Also take a look at your own work. Chances are you are freeloading on someone else's ideas with everything you do, and there are huge chunks of process that you are only able to do because someone decided to make those ideas freely available to other people.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by zizee on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:34PM (#32257907)
But science has a big system of distributing money up front to people to do the work of innovating. There is no such system in place to fund people developing innovative products that require significant up front investment.

Also the "product" of science innovation is the actual innovation and being first to publish. An equivalent freeloader problem would not be someone copying the idea/papers after they are released. It would be spying inside the laboratory, copying the ideas and releasing competing papers before the actual researcher releases their own. If that was happening, I am sure you would object.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by bravetraveler on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:59PM (#32256894)
What have these rewards truly given us?

The open/free scientific communities are responsible for most tangible benefit - meanwhile, those reaping the biggest rewards give us... planned obsolescence

I understand the sentiment and even agree to an extent, but the reality is things are abused and wasted as well - to a shocking degree, in pursuit of 'mine'

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by FredPret on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:43PM (#32257415)
False. Tangible benefits are frightfully hard to bring about. Nobody does that for free. Newton came up woth calculus, shared it for free, and transformed the world.

But all tangible benefits arising from that involved a lot of people, a lot of work, and a lot of risk. Planned obsolescence, bad as it may be, is a non-issue in the bigger picture.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by drusepth on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:22PM (#32257172)
Within the context of this comment thread ("freeloaders" copying the R&D of the "inventive ones"), it seems like the opposite is true for global innovation: inventive ones are being punished by freeloaders copying their work and being able to offer it for a lower price, due to not having to recoup R&D costs/investments (among other factors).
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by polishdude20 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:47PM (#32258602)
In a way you can also explain it as standing in the shoulders of giants. Get the stuff that was already done shared out of the way and encourage more to be built on top.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by marssaxman on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @07:07PM (#32258254)
The current system only seems to accomplish that goal if you are focused on the inventiveness of lawyers.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by LionTamer on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:53PM (#32256803)
How do you think humans should incentivize R&D without allowing for those who successfully deployed R&D to protect their ability to reap the fruits of their efforts? I’m sympathetic and am very interested in the idea of the government creating public goods out of intellectual property on a national level (ie instead of rewarding copyrights/parents the government would buy out the creator and make it free for citizens to do what they’d like), but that could work because the government has sovereignty over its territory - how do you prevent international free riding on R&D?
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by igorkraw on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:01PM (#32256911)
For the research part (figuring out something previously impossible)? No need to incentivise, the kick of figuring it out is enough to motivate people, just provide UBI so the nerds can tinker.

For the development/application part? Let people race to figure out the best way to deploy things before someone else does, the way the swiss and Germans and Chinese did in the free for all time. I've heard competition be called something that incentivises people to find edges that aren't easily copied, and trade secrets can still exist

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by babypuncher on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:19PM (#32257770)
> For the research part (figuring out something previously impossible)? No need to incentivise, the kick of figuring it out is enough to motivate people, just provide UBI so the nerds can tinker.

I think this is only true to a certain extent. We have reached a point where a lot of new innovation and invention is only possible with a truly tremendous amount of financial investment. No amount of tinkering in your garage is going to bring about the next advancement in EUV lithography. You need an entity with a lot of capital and a strong incentive to bring many of these things about. That can come from either the private sector or the government, but it cannot realistically be pulled out of thin air.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by igorkraw on Thursday August 04, 2022 @03:54AM (#32340331)
Yeah, but we were talking about incentives not about finding capital. Nerds are perfectly capable of writing proposals, budgets, etc. if they have the time, and if there is not need to feed constituents and make a profit of the results, it can be done cheaply and under budget. You might still want to spend time optimising this, but the incentives are there already and need not to be set (provide public goods, have fun doing it)
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by LionTamer on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:39PM (#32271769)
> trade secrets can still exist

How can trade secrets exist if we are “just sharing ideas openly with each other”?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by asdff on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:58PM (#32256875)
A lot of government funded R&D e.g. from the NIH or NSF has stipulations actually that say the data and results be made publicly available so that other researchers may benefit. At the end of the day we have to decide where our values lie. Do they lie with individualized benefit? Then we allow people to have protection legally so they may individually profit off of that technology using a perverted market condition (them having the sole rights of distribution for a period of time). If we value the collective whole, then we would share these ideas with others who would benefit from them and further them still, like we do medical research. You have to decide where your moralities lie.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by polio on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:52PM (#32257511)
I'd just make the individuals involved rich with a lump-sum payment ($10m, say) and a lot of good press. Then make it public domain.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by zizee on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:40PM (#32257974)
What if they spent $20m to create the innovation? Who judges when an innovation is appropriate to convert in the manner? What happens to the innovations that aren't deemed worthy of conversion?
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by not-my-account on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:56PM (#32256848)
Profits matter, though! We need them to pay people to do the research and development, which people will not do for nothing - our dependence on food and shelter makes this necessary. If an American firm absorbs all the costs, but gains none of the benefit, it will not survive as long, meaning the research will also disappear alongside it.

China, on the other hand, can spend those funds elsewhere while also poaching the work of the American firm, which would put them at a great competitive advantage.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by asdff on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:00PM (#32256907)
Profits aren't necessary for R&D, that's just one model where R&D is funded by consumers through direct purchases. Another model is where R&D is simply funded through taxation and grants. That is the model that medical research is often funded through, and it works well because it allows researchers around the world to help our species overcome disease.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by LionTamer on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:44PM (#32271799)
How do you deal with an international free rider problem? If the word collectively agreed to fund research then I would love for all results to be released publicly, but how do you stop countries from free riding off of the R&D from other countries? From a game theoretic perspective it seems that countries who are fully self interested (putting aside notions of fairness/ethics, which I wish would be enough to lead to desirable outcomes but is unfortunately not the case) would clearly choose to just free ride off of the developments of other nations, and reap the fruits of reward while spending that money elsewhere (potentially in ways that could end up hurting the researching country, like the free rider spending it on their military).
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by not-my-account on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:13PM (#32257051)
Totally good point! Though, that is also quite restrictive. Some of the biggest innovations which change society the most are incredibly weird, out of left field innovations that a governmental or grant program would most likely not fund - just because the nascent idea is too crazy.

You get a lot of money funding weird ideas in VC firms, where the incentive structure (of profit) makes it possible to fund a tonne of ideas, where it is expected that most of the ideas will fail.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by zizee on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:45PM (#32258039)
This still has the free rider problem at a nation state level. Let's say China invests 100 billion a year in innovation, and makes it all open. France then comes along and says "I don't need to bother with spending on innovation, I'll just use China's legwork, and spend my billion on out marketing china". China would eventually run out of cash for research.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t_mann on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:52PM (#32256781)
Copying is a great source of innovation and industrial development. Take German engineering ('Made in Germany' was a label originally intended to make the German copycats more visible in England, from where the processes were copied, but that sort of backfired in hindsight), the Swiss watch and pharma industries (based on French patents that were practically unenforceable in Switzerland at the time)...

Once you have a process up and running, it's almost human instinct to try and improve it. If you start by copying the latest stuff, chances are you'll find a few new tweaks.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Glawen on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:55AM (#32261237)
That depends, look at the Soviet Union, they bought Fiat 124 assembly line and they produced the car with just minor tweaks until 2010 (lada 2105). They made the great Lada Niva and produced also unchanged until 2010.

Improving thing is not a given and not in every culture. It is a trait of the western culture for sure, but not necessarily shared in the world.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by bsder on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:14PM (#32257068)
And all that Silicon Valley is doing is funding young 20 somethings for the next social groupcrap over and over and over. It's not exactly like Silicon Valley is being innovative.

TikTok is just making Silicon Valley mad because they finally met a bigger VC (the Chinese government) running their own playbook and they can't beat it.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by rightbyte on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:14PM (#32257064)
The mere thought of Facebook codebase being usable anywhere else but by Facebook is silly. If someone gave somebody a dump of Google's monolith were to even begin looking?

You need the engineers too. There is no Bond-like blueprint to steal.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by itg on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:39PM (#32257961)
Tbh I find this comment hilarious given the story we are commenting on. In this case, it is Meta/Instagram that is trying to copy TikTok, and yet still can't pull off as good a recommendation algorithm.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t_mann on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @03:55PM (#32255950)
Yeah, the parent left us on a bit of a cliffhanger there re China.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Animats on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @04:08PM (#32256139)
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by ravenstine on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:19PM (#32257124)
I won't be surprised the day that Silicon Valley finally sees a real correction. We are due for one, big time. Just look at what Google and Meta have been doing compared to the ability of newcomers like TikTok. China will win, and when reality comes knocking, it will be too late and suddenly that easy money is going to vanish.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by rpdillon on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:48PM (#32258076)
TikTok feels radically less innovative to me than Quest VR, but if you're focused on MAU, I see how it TikTok feels more impactful.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by d4mi3n on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:26PM (#32257222)
> Peak Facebook was in Q2 2021.[1] Instagram is losing to TikTok.

Peak by what measure?

If by profit, probably. From the perspective of a product I like and want to use? Facebook peaked long, long ago.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by solarmist on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:28PM (#32257258)
Yup. Money I’m sure.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by moralestapia on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @10:03PM (#32259641)
>"tech", but is just ads with social content

Too bad you edited your comment in this part, your previous remark was quite fun and accurate.