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Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by biztos on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:13PM (#32257056)
I'm a huge admirer of TikTok and love to use it -- once a week only! -- but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary.

However I find it baffling that all the VC in the Global West is unable to come up with a popular alternative, even though it's glaringly obvious[0] what the "secret sauce" is in TikTok and why it works so well.

Instead we get stuff like this, where a quite good photo-sharing service radically undermines its inherent advantages in order to play catch-up, with most of the videos still sporting a TikTok logo.

At some level I'm happy if Zuckerberg destroys my artists' community on IG because it at least opens the door to creating a better one elsewhere. But I'm also a little worried that this coterie of billionaires keeps having their lunch eaten by a pretty straightforward system run on a pretty classic Valley model.

[0]: https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/a16z-podcast/tiktoks-al...

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0mas88 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:23PM (#32257185)
> but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary.

In a way Europe has been doing that for many years. The US does not have any privacy protection of foreigners, the NSA is only not supposed to capture data on US citizens.

Only now are we seeing Google Analytics banned in many European countries. But it's a very small step.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Zeebrommer on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:54PM (#32257528)
That is not nearly the same thing. The US and western Europe have been roughly aligned about geopolitical interests, values (democracy, freedom, mostly liberal, based on a secularising Christian foundation), rules and laws. China is diametrically opposed on all those things.

The cultural influence of the US on Europe is enormous, and the US has often crossed the line spying on European citizens, but the US is not an adversary.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by krageon on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:37AM (#32262234)
The only values the US and the EU align on are brutal profiteering at the expense of overseas territories. If anything, I kind of hope that China replaces the US as the influential friend and we get less of this war apologism. The US is a big bully and at every turn where it has influenced EU culture the EU has become objectively worse. For it's own citizens, for any foreign powers interacting with it, the works.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by innocentoldguy on Monday August 01, 2022 @12:18AM (#32302015)
I don't think the opposition is as diametric as you may think, when it comes to values. I've been to China several times and from my perspective, US liberalism has embraced quite a lot of Communist China's values and behaviors. For example:

1. Committing acts of violence against people they don't agree with.

2. Silencing opposing opinions.

3. Media and political propaganda, projection, and gaslighting.

4. Vilifying segments of society.

5. A tiered justice system.

6. Consequentialism.

7. Destruction of history to fit a modern narrative.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by orangepurple on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:34PM (#32257318)
Wait until Europeans find out all of their bank data is analyzed in the Google Cloud
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @06:07PM (#32257659)
Not that bad as Chinese investments in European universities. Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous.

Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition.

However... Both trends has similar goal to steal freedom from citizens.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:59AM (#32261258)
>Sure, we can speak about political correctness from West in campuses, but that has no future by definition.

Why ? political correctness in progressive-dominated spcaces like western uni campuses goes back to the 70s/80s. I was browsing Ted Kaczynski's (better known as the UnaBomber) Industrial Society and Its Future[1], and he spoke about political correctness as an established thing. A 40-year phenomenon seems like something that won't end anytime soon.

>Shaping education by foreigners that not accept democratic principles is far more dangerous.

I wouldn't be too quick to judge. Not all of china is a single brain, maybe the people funding european universities have meaningful ideological differences from the ruling class. And the blanket usage of "democratic principles" irritates me hugely, because most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power.

[1] http://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifesto...

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:53AM (#32264293)
>Why ?

Because ideology is wrong.

>..because most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham...

I wouldn't argue with that, but advantage of free society is that you, as individual, can do something about it. In totalitarian state your attempts to change something that is against state ideology would be suppressed. If we, in democratic states, let others people do nasty things, than it is only because we let them to do it. Is it laziness? Is it lack of responsibility? Or maybe that image that media told us every day... "Don't stick your nose here and there, you wouldn't be able to change anything anyway. Stay scared."

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:21AM (#32265539)
>Because ideology is wrong.

I have no objections to political correctness being wrong, I was contradicting the claim that it's something that's going away.

>If we, in democratic states, let others people do nasty things, than it is only because we let them to do it

Or because they have vastly more wealth, status and connections than you, and can crush you like a bug (totally legally) if you ever went anywhere near them. That's why you can't do anything, not because you choose not to. Democracy is theatre, it doesn't change the fundamental power structure since Ancient Egypt and Babylon. There is an upper caste, and you're not one of them.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:21PM (#32266467)
Honestly, I don't want to be one of elites. I believe in different values than being rich or powerful. If that is your goal in life, then sure, democracy could look like theater.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by boppo1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:20AM (#32262101)
>most of modern wesern democracies is a pathetic and transparent sham that is trampled at the earliest encounter with any real established power

I agree with this on a knee-jerk, but it still seems to me 'the west' is different from China, Russia, etc. Why do I feel that, what's the source?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:56AM (#32262748)
Very concisely: The Media. Every election in a western nation is a huge circus, every referendum a secular holy day. Every elected official speaks of "the people", that mythical monolith who has a True Will that votes supposedly represent. It's a massive dose of ego-stroking deference, it can be hard to see all this and not think you're in some kind of control, after all, you're a voter, and those people speak very reverently of voters, so you must be in charge, right ?

In truth, not only votes are a placebo that doesn't measure anything but the crudest of desires, and not only those worthless votes are further made worthless and pointless by the fact that vast hordes of uncoordinated humans are exceptionally easy to manipulate and control to give their votes to anything, much more than individuals or small groups. The reality is that votes and elections just don't matter. Bush didn't need votes to invade Iraq, he just went ahead and did it. The vast vast majority of anything done by an elected official is due to his or her very own desire (modulo reality, of which you as a voter are not part of untill the next election). Democracy is just tyranny except there are multiple competing tyrants (not a novel feature) and you get an extremly small chance to depose the tyrant every n years.

"But Term Limits" oh you think 4 or 6 years in office aren't enough to form connections and make favors that can last you 20 outside the office ? "But Free Press" oh okay (1) lol, look at who owns the press (2) what good is a voice that can't affect things, you scream and rage and cry and then what ? someone comes along and convinces you they can solve this problem, For Real This Time^TM, and you vote them into office (if you manage a majority) and after an intial 100 days of theatrics, nothing.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by t0bia_s on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:42AM (#32264163)
You name only negative side of democratic system. Which is good, because you can. That is one of visible principles of democracy. You wouldn't be able to speak publicly like that in China.

But... Do not forget about positive aspects of personal freedoms, individual rights, etc.

Btw, what is a perfect system for you?

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by Banana699 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:54AM (#32265182)
>That is one of visible principles of democracy. You wouldn't be able to speak publicly like that in China.

This is the "Helpless Voice" aspect, 'democracy' allowed you to scream at the top of your lungs about how it sucks, giving you the illusion that you're more free than you really are. Imagine if Putin made it legal to insult him on the streets, would that make it any less of a totalitarianism ?

>Btw, what is a perfect system for you?

I'm not sure there is a word for it, anarcho-primitivism is the closest thing, although I don't necessarily agree with them that technology is fundamentally centralized or coercive. Basically, I think that all the ills of society is due to the fundamental idea, the preversion really, of living with people you don't know. That is, to fix society, you have to destroy society, it's a fundamentally unfixable idea. You can't make people who don't feel kinship to each other play by any set of rules. Here's me arguing this from an older comment of mine:

-------------------------

>>>I'm a techno-primitivist, I believe political units should be extremely small, extremely numerous, with an emphasis on blood ties as the ultimate guarantee of group cohesion and loyalty. I have a burning hatred for and deep distrust of any political unit with more than 1000 persons. There is no way to make a social organization of >1000 persons consistently fair, the rules are always arbitrary and ad hoc, a few assholes always play the meta-game and find ways around them, and somebody is always oppressed and bullied and consistently given the shorter end without a way to be heard.

Family is different, affinity for genetic similarity is deeply hardwired into your lowest level circuits, very few assholes can find their way around the rules evolution built. Every single social organization is a prisoner's dilemma come alive, why cooperate with that stranger you're never going to see again? The answers are always arbitrary and subject to abuse and evasion : Because God, Because Emperor, Because CEO, Because General. Family is the only social unit where the rules stem from your very being : Because Evolution, the very factory that built you, that encoded your love and respect for your own flesh and blood as deep inside as it encoded your liver and kidneys.

In another, and better, universe, we never built nations or states or parliaments or public school systems, every family is an autonomous unit under the leadership of its bread winner, and federations of families handle cross-cutting concerns in a way that leaves as much power to the families as possible.

-------------------------

Here's another comment of mine from a different forum, arguing the same point in a slightly more colorful (and angry) tones :

-------------------------

>>>Imagine You live in a cramped and inferior society among countless nameless millions like farm chattel. You are controlled by monstrous alien entities called States, composed of people like animal bodies are composed of cells, caring about the welfare of people exactly as much as animals care about the welfare of their cells : not at all, unless relevant to their survival.

You were not built for this perversity, for hundreds of thousands of years your ancestors lived among people whose very flesh and blood was molded out of the same language as them. Nobody needed to craft rules on how to live with each other; or rather, nobody needed to craft rigid and easily exploitable set-in-stone (or paper or computer memory) rules. You started with the willingness to live with each other, and a natural affection only life born out of itself can hold, and the rules trickled down and evolved as needed. You look upon ants and bees, they are marvellous in their numerousy and organization, but you're not like them, your place is to live among a hundred or a thousand of your kin, governing no one but your kin, and being governed by no one but them.

The society you live in is a poor imitation of ants and bees. Everytime you complain someone points to some numbers and explains how they have gone up, how it's good that they go up, how your complaints are misguided and irrational because the only thing that matter is numbers going up, and the societies you're nostalgic for are societies where those numbers have not gone up, and thus can't be worth living in.

Can you imagine that ? Some of us don't have to, because we're living it. If you're not, count yourself lucky that you adapted to the life of ants and bees, but don't dismiss or make fun of those who long for the long lost life of humans.

-------------------------

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by pukexxr on Thursday July 28, 2022 @02:36PM (#32268455)
Nihilist anarchism and Max Stirner may be up your alley. The Wolfi Landstriecher translation is the one you want.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by krageon on Thursday July 28, 2022 @05:38AM (#32262244)
Ah yes, democracy. Is that when you fire up the tanks and shoot natives until they tell you you're a big boy? Or is it the terror campaign of school drone strikes after?
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:17AM (#32263278)
you can have an acceptable domestic government that had made unacceptable mistakes in foreign policies.

It does not change the validity of democracy if democratic nations make mistakes.

And it does not legitimize a tyrannical government just because democracies have made mistakes.

Edit: I'll double down. The whole point of democracies is to hold our governments accountable for those mistakes, something that is (at least by design) much harder in non-democratic governments.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by krageon on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:14AM (#32264570)
If you want me to actually engage with any of this you're going to have to give me a little help understanding how someone arguing in good faith can imply the US government has ever been held accountable in a way that changed anything about how it operated. From where I'm standing, that descends so far into fantasy we may as well be playing D&D.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:01AM (#32265281)
I'm not implying anyone has ever been held accountable. And nothing I said is less true despite that.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by colonwqbang on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @05:33PM (#32257310)
You have a point, but the way Europeans see the US is very different from how they see China. The US has done some morally questionable things in recent memory (War on terror, Snowden/Assange, Trump, etc) but on the whole US is seen as an ally, not an adversary.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @08:43PM (#32259063)
Only for politicians, it’s been 20 years that I haven’t met an European who consider the us an ally, and I’ve lived in Uk Germany Netherlands and Italy, but so far we’ve voted US allying politicians because of the threat of nationalist parties, but at least in Italy is about to change due to the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to us
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by ramblerman on Thursday July 28, 2022 @01:58AM (#32260910)
> I haven’t met an European who consider the US an ally,

What hyperbole. There are plenty, myself included. Don't confuse criticism of the US with us not being an ally.

> the energy crisis we’re going through thanks to US

??? The finger is clearly pointed at Putin and Germany's naivity over the past 10 years for this mess we are in.

I'd be curious to read a European publication that even suggests this is due to the US (if you have a link).

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @08:19AM (#32263310)
currently in the US, Fox is blaming Biden. That might be enough for some, esp any Russian apologists.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:31AM (#32264030)
For the whole of Trump administration, he was really good at making peace when things where going south, he never said that he would protect for example Taiwan directly in case of attack of China.

I miss Trump so much, like he was a issue for US , but the rest of the world just could have a laugh and live in peace

It was Obama that started poking Putin saying that he was at the end of a medium power, and it is Biden that is giving all the weapons asked to Ukraine without even asking for a way to de-escalate and find a compromise, it is Biden that is letting Ukrainian lose territory and life just for weakening Russia for US interests

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:43AM (#32264182)
Threatening withdrawal from NATO, withholding Ukrainian defense aid, and not promising to defend Taiwan are not positive features for many in the USA.

As a personal example, the Russian invasion of Ukraine was obvious back in 2014 (read accidental superpower). As is the eventual annexation of Taiwan. Both are not the kinds of actions I like to see in the world and support efforts to reduce the occurance of those actions. European nations are aiding Ukraine as well, this not a unilateral US action.

I also don't support prolonged invasion of Afghanistan by the US, just in case you're wondering.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @09:52AM (#32264284)
>> Threatening withdrawal from NATO, withholding Ukrainian defense aid, and not >> promising to defend Taiwan are not positive features for many in the USA.

Correct, in the USA, It it NONE of the world problem, like in EU we have done business with Russia for decades without issues, we got gas, companies got energy and everyone was happy, except US, of course Europeans are also supporting it (politicians) but they are doing it without going through people, they didn't campaign for it, and if everything goes well, they will see the effect of their loyalty to US interest at next elections

I just wanted to say that USA interest are likely to match the interest of EU, but it is not always, EU interests were more likely to keep making business with Russia in peace

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by smileysteve on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:25AM (#32265601)
> It it NONE of the world problem, like in EU we have done business with Russia for decades without issues

Eyes in Ukraine, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Poland - and the Baltic States.

A reminder that Russias invasion of Ukraine violates the 1994 Budapest Agreement.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:29PM (#32266575)
A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders.

When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-...

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by _kbh_ on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:55PM (#32271032)
> A reminder that if we go to get things from the '90, we also have the agreement of non-expansion of NATO to Russian borders.

This is a persistent rumour, but despite what people want to say even Gorbachev himself says no such promise was made.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-...

But this begs the question, why does the west have to abide by imaginary agreements but Russia is allowed to violate the Budapest agreement?.

> When meanwhile NATO has been training in Ukraine on Russian borders for many years https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-military-success-years-...

Western is hardly on the Russian border it’s probably the furthest from Russia you could get in Ukraine.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by colonwqbang on Thursday July 28, 2022 @06:16PM (#32270729)
There is a deep inconsistency in your argument. Countries bordering Russia should not join NATO as doing so would be a provocation. Yet Russia has shown that they are happy to invade bordering countries (who are not in NATO) and blow their people to bits. How do you think the people in Finland, Latvia, Poland, Ukraine view this situation? What is their right to self-determination worth?
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @10:04AM (#32264440)
I'm surprised to hear that. Though, I expect your opinion might not be the only one in the European continent. If you can believe the EU polls, support for Ukraine's defense is quite high: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2772

So, either those surveys are lies, or the US has somehow brainwashed EU's citizens, or there actually is broad European support for aiding Ukraine in its defense, sanctioning Russia including reducing Oil and Gas purchases, and welcoming Ukraine into the EU in time.

I don't know where you live, but it is entirely possible that there will be backlash in your country or district, while still maintaining the general support for what's going on across the broader EU.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:32AM (#32265716)
I am italian, and we have always had a good relationship with Russia, either for energy, housing, boats, textile, etc. so a lot of people were not happy of this whole situation
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Thursday July 28, 2022 @11:43AM (#32265885)
Well, I'm glad there's a diversity of opinions and hope there's healthy debate and a reasonable outcome is reached that minimizes the suffering and maximizes the personal agency of all parties. Peace is always the best, but not always possible.
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Thursday July 28, 2022 @12:22PM (#32266477)
Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do?

So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now.

While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by _kbh_ on Friday July 29, 2022 @03:36AM (#32274097)
> Yeah I agree with you that peace is not always possible, but there could be steps towards finding peace, the problem is that I find Zelensky too much idealistic in his view of integrity of Ukraine, and a bit not practical, while his people are dying on the battlefield, so he has to compromise I think, and the guilt that I find in US is that they keep giving all the weapons, without any restrain to force him to compromise, he is a head of a country that wants to join NATO (its in his constitution) and Russia is a power that has beef with NATO, the Russians would feel unsafe to border with a enemy entity, would you imagine if Russia would put its influence in Mexico or Cuba? What would the US do?

You are pretty much saying that Ukrainian sovereignty doesn't matter and the Zelensky shouldn't try to defend his country but instead roll over, and let Russia, loot rape and kill whatever they want.

Russia must face a decisive defeat on the battlefield, good news is it looks like this may happen, Ukraine will retake Kherson soon, and they can even easily reach Crimea from there.

> So I think the only way to let Zelensky think about making compromise, is to shrink gradually the amount of weapons supplied, because this war can't go on forever on european soil, and we need to get an end to it. The issue is: US doesn't any any interest touched by keeping this war, so the EU and US interests are not matched, and that's why I wouldn't consider them allies right now.

The only way to stop this happening again, is to do the opposite, supply the heaviest weapons possible to Ukraine and push back Russia with such force that even blinking in Ukraines direction becomes unthinkable in the future.

> While peace is not always possible, if we balance the amount of support, to compromises, then we can get there, and I think Biden is sucking at making compromises at the moment

It's easy to say this when it's not your people, country or friends getting killed annex and genocided.

Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by LoveMortuus on Friday July 29, 2022 @05:17AM (#32274699)
I wish US would just leave the EU alone...
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by jvanderbot on Friday July 29, 2022 @11:25AM (#32278166)
How does one draw the line between normal politics and, I guess, meddling? I'm not sure what is being implied by the US not "leaving EU alone"
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by ryanwaggoner on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:00PM (#32259186)
That’s probably more about who you spend time with, as a very strong majority of Europeans surveyed view the US as an ally and have an overall positive view: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-...
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by lnxg33k1 on Wednesday July 27, 2022 @09:15PM (#32259280)
I’ve seen citizen burning cities when there were Americans involved, just think about the g7 and g8 and ttip protests, I really don’t believe polls, but we’ll see upcoming elections I guess
Re:Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy by solarkraft on Thursday July 28, 2022 @07:30AM (#32262942)
> it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary.

You mean an adversary from China rather than an adversary from the US?

There's a small, but not that significant advantage in having the company having ~questionable~ societal effects be from your own country, especially if you're not going to regulate them anyway.