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Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by blacklion on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @05:49AM (#32149428)
> I want USA to do whatever it needs to be the top player

Are you sure? Several months ago I've woke up to learn, that my country start to kill civilians of other country with bombs, missiles and shelling, to become "top player". And, what is even worse, many of my fellow citizens support it.

Now I'm trying to leave this country for some other, which don't have ambitions to be top-player but don't kill civilians and don't attack malls and hospitals.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by scrollaway on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @06:06AM (#32149531)
Good luck from Belgium. Reach out if you need help; I’ve assisted in the expatriation of people like you and wish to keep doing so.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by go_elmo on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @06:38AM (#32149725)
Youll enjoy europe then, scandinavia among others is surely on top of the us in every term apart from business revenue and the army.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by arroz on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:44AM (#32151315)
And opportunities, and size of homes, and cost of living
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by go_elmo on Friday July 22, 2022 @05:02PM (#32197073)
Opportunities to get shot, cross drug addicts, not be able to abort, lose your home because of health care costs
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by diogenes_of_ak on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:40AM (#32150162)
Всё будет хорошо скоро - мир меняется быстро, и есть возможность работать в любом месте ты хочешь.

Счастливо тебе, и если тебе надо помочь, послай мне dm, не знаю что могу делать, но могу стараться помогать.

Прости за мой плохой русский, меня научали мальчики когда я жил в Украине на обмене в средней школе.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by 4ggr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:53AM (#32150255)
If others wonder what this text says -

All will be well soon - the world is changing fast, and there are opportunities to work anywhere you want.

So long, and if you need help, send me a dm, I don't know what I can do, but I can try to help.

Sorry about my bad Russian, I was taught by the boys when I lived in Ukraine on a high school exchange.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by diogenes_of_ak on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:59AM (#32150306)
Sorry if other languages aren’t permissible. I can delete it if I need to.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by 4ggr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:20AM (#32150463)
I personally don't care and the rules don't forbid it. I wondered what you wrote, translated it online and thought I'd post it here to save others a few clicks :)

Avec la technologie actuelle, nous devrions pouvoir parler dans la langue de notre choix sans problème.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by formerkrogemp on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:16AM (#32152730)
> Avec la technologie actuelle, nous devrions pouvoir parler dans la langue de notre choix sans problème.

Well said.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by honkdaddy on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:12AM (#32150396)
I don't think it's against the rules at all; we had a thread a couple weeks ago which ended up being mostly in German. We native speakers enjoy the privilege of reading English nearly every where we go online, it should be no skin off our back to pop open Google Translate every once in a while.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by dang on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @06:31PM (#32158847)
An occasional comment in another language is fine but HN is an English-language site, so people shouldn't be having entire conversations in other languages.

I wrote a bit about this the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32131878

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by knighthack on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:44AM (#32167406)
As a speaker of multiple languages, I disagree. There's no possibility of HN turning into a non-English language site just because a few threads are not in English; HN will always be first and foremost an English language site (and it's too long set in English for it to be anything but), and it's actually quite nice to be reminded of the existence of other conversations by other language speakers rather than only English. I and many others may not be able to participate so directly in them, but there's always Google Translate.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by kebman on Saturday July 23, 2022 @05:48AM (#32201843)
Hi, Norwegian here, so English is my second language. Sorry no. If there are other-language comments, I just skip them. The reason is UX and time. If you're too lazy to run your other-language comment through Google Trans or similar, then you'll just end up having fewer readers. Meanwhile you just end up annoying those who want to fluently read the discussions without having to stop and run things through a translator every other post. This makes other-language posts bad for HN's business. I mean consider if I just switched to my own language for no reason at all. Haha, da må du kjøre greia gjennom Google Trans eller lignende, og fordi jeg skriver dialekt så er det likevel ikke sikkert at alt blir oversatt riktig lol. Actually the translation for that last sentence came out surprisingly well, but it's not like you'd know anyway.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by narag on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @10:23AM (#32151916)
I'm not a native speaker, but I understand English better than German or Russian. Sometimes it makes sense to write something in other languages, sometimes it doesn't. It should be a matter of common sense and politeness more than about the rules.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by subpixel on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:06AM (#32150895)
Link? I want to test my rusty German comprehension
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by stevenjgarner on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:24AM (#32151083)
72 101 108 108 111 32 119 111 114 108 100
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by belter on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:25AM (#32152874)
Above means "Hello world"....
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by stevenjgarner on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:21PM (#32153975)
I remember going to a computer club talk by Woz where a significant portion (certainly the important parts) of the conversation were all in 6502 assembler. I was so lost, and at the same time inspired.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by hiidrew on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @10:26AM (#32151975)
Love this framing
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by nindalf on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:52AM (#32150244)
Interestingly, HN guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) say nothing about a comment needing to be in English.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by lancesells on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @10:49AM (#32152319)
For that I am glad. Let the community determine the languages being spoken.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ajsnigrutin on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:47AM (#32150212)
> Now I'm trying to leave this country for some other, which don't have ambitions to be top-player but don't kill civilians and don't attack malls and hospitals.

Good luck man, there aren't many such countries. I live in slovenia, we're like tiny, point a finger at putin and meanwhile have soldiers in syria.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by throw0101a on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:16AM (#32149984)
>> I want USA to do whatever it needs to be the top player

> Are you sure?

Would you rather have someone else / some other country (other than the US) be the hegemon? If so, who? And are they willing to do it?

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by diogenes_of_ak on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:41AM (#32150174)
Perhaps it would be better if nobody was the hegemon eh?
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ericmay on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:46AM (#32150695)
Loosely speaking, probably not right now. A lot of countries avoid war because they are worried about the potential response from the United States. With an isolationist-focused US that isn't the dominant military power (in order for the US to not be the dominant power it'll have to undertake more isolationist tendencies like reducing military spending) there's nothing to fear from invading your neighbor.

But this is just an examination of practical reality. Ideally we wouldn't have a hegemon. Ideally maybe we wouldn't have countries either.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ethbr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:53AM (#32151447)
Is that possible?

The wildly different allocation of resources and population (on a country border basis) suggests some country will always have the means to be hegemonic (especially if other contenders all decide not to be).

Which in practice means there will always be a hegemony.

If the US ceded its role tomorrow, China would step into it. If China ceded it the day after, Russia or the EU would step into it. (I'm skipping over India and Japan, as both seem to have cultural aversions to strongly projecting power overseas)

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by throwaway6734 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:30AM (#32151143)
multipolar worlds have not worked well in the past.

As an American, I would love for the EU to get more unified and take the reins, but in the mean time, a US hegemon is required for global stability

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:59AM (#32151538)
>"US hegemon is required for global stability"

This is laughable. The US initiated way too many wars and other offensive / disruptive actions. If you call this stability then I have a bridge to sell. The only stability it provides is it's own. Well maybe some to the allies.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by throwaway6734 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @10:18AM (#32151839)
The US Navy ensures that global shipping routes stay open and safe, the US economy provides the globe with advanced technological research and products, and the US's natural resources allow for it to export tons of commodities including food and energy.

During pax americana, we've seen massive increases in quality of life around the world. Do you think the world is going to be more stable as the US retreats and other players fill the power vacuum and we have to deal with the rising threat of climate change?

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:17AM (#32152738)
I think the world will be more stable when there are few major players around with not a single one having complete control / dominance. This will insure competition and cooperation between our "masters" and will keep them on their toes.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by throw0101a on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:38PM (#32154269)
> I think the world will be more stable when there are few major players around with not a single one having complete control / dominance.

Until one thinks they can get an edge over another one by jumping them:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_wars

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_history_by_c...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_history_by_p...

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:41PM (#32154351)
Major players going to war with each other means mutually assured destruction. I do not think they will.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by throwaway6734 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:13PM (#32154863)
Yes but proxy wars are going to be brutal.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:49PM (#32155395)
I do not want to argue too much here. Here is my point of view - I believe that a single country controlling the world will end up with dictatorship on a world scale. It will not prevent wars either. If instead we have few majors they might actually get to their senses and establish some workable order.

You have your own take on a subject and we do not have to agree

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by _-david-_ on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:18PM (#32153935)
When there are multiple major players conflicts between them often occur.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:44PM (#32154394)
I appreciate your desire for the world to be ruled by the US. I do not think the rest of the world will agree. And if you enforce it using military means you are no better then the rest. Are you American by any chance?
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by _-david-_ on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:05PM (#32154758)
I think if the choice is China or America, the majority of the world would choose America. America is less hostile to other countries than China.

Do you think the world would rather have China in charge?

I assume you are going to claim that we can either have no major power or that the EU could be that major power. I highly doubt either of those could occur.

I believe some wars can be just and as such enforcing things through the military can be just. The idea that military use has to be bad is ridiculous.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:11PM (#32154827)
Replying here since reply to your last post is not available.

>"Do you think the world would rather have China in charge?"

I prefer the world "ruled" by few major entities / blocks. No need to be either US or China alone.

>"I believe some wars can be just and as such enforcing things through the military can be just."

Like bombing the country that refuses to trade in certain currency?

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by _-david-_ on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @03:17PM (#32156583)
>Replying here since reply to your last post is not available.

Typically when that happens I have to click the time posted on a post and then I have the option to reply. Not sure what causes that.

>I prefer the world "ruled" by few major entities / blocks. No need to be either US or China alone.

I don't think that is possible.

Do you have any historical examples where this has happened? Please don't bring up a time when there were multiple major powers but they were so far away they couldn't reach the other, assuming they even knew the other existed.

If you do not have any examples of this occurring, why do you think it would work in the present?

>Like bombing the country that refuses to trade in certain currency?

I am not suggesting that the US has only done good and just things. Only that the US is better than China.

China is currently taking over Hong Kong (despite having a 50 year agreement for autonomy starting in 1997), attempting to take land from India, trying to dam a river that provides water to India, is consistently threatening Taiwan, etc. China does the same crap. And all of that is within the last few years. If you want to go back further we can.

I would also note several of the US invasions were not in fact US invasion but NATO invasions. This likely means one of those blocks of country you support to be a world power were involved with these invasions.

Let's talk about internal affairs. China has a terrible record and potentially holds the record for causing the most deaths of its own citizens. Obviously they don't care about the people. What about freedom? Do Chinese citizens have more freedom than US citizens? Why would China treat people who are not its own citizens better than the citizens?

The US is better for the world and the people under its control than China.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:08PM (#32159638)
>"The US is better for the world and the people under its control than China"

Once again you are pushing a choice that should not be there in a first place. I do not want to choose between either. Period. If you let any country run free and control the others it will devolve to a dictator. So I prefer to have the US, Europe, China, BRICS and whatever else is coming.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by _-david-_ on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @12:03PM (#32167727)
I will ask you again:

Do you have any historical examples where this has happened? Please don't bring up a time when there were multiple major powers but they were so far away they couldn't reach the other, assuming they even knew the other existed.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Thursday July 21, 2022 @10:52AM (#32180092)
Unless one's blind it is happening right now
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by _-david-_ on Thursday July 21, 2022 @12:48PM (#32181649)
I believe it is temporary. China is massively build up their military and are consistently threatening their neighbors. I believe it is just a matter of time until war occurs.

Also, you are advocating for more than 2 blocks. As far as I can tell there are only two super powers right now.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Thursday July 21, 2022 @02:53PM (#32183288)
>"I believe it is temporary."

You can believe whatever you want. We have totally different point of view on subject and do not have to agree.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by wholien on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:03PM (#32153664)
a multipolar world means more instability and wars, though. When you say it will "insure competition", that means conflict for sure.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Thursday July 21, 2022 @02:57PM (#32183341)
Conflict does not have to be military. I do not think the US looking forward to attack Russia or China for example.

Non military conflicts could be better than being poodle under the threat of war which will happen if the world is ran by a single country

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by bilbo0s on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:41AM (#32150168)
No top player.

And many top players.

MAD, as insane as it may sound, actually works. Everyone being fearful of massive retaliatory strikes keeps everyone in line. You get all sorts of bad behavior when nations have no fear of massive retaliatory strikes.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by Msw242 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:50AM (#32150228)
The world map has been mostly frozen the last few decades precisely because USA is the global hegemon and world police.

Regional powers (which is what we would devolve to) are demonstrating exactly what the world would look like without America running the show: conquest and genocide in Ukraine, saber rattling in the south china sea, genocide of the Kurds.

We don't have an interest in solving for all the world's ills, and we are the source of many.

But the world has been less stable and more dangerous in the past.

What you are espousing is a luxury belief.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by coliveira on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:42AM (#32151292)
If you think the world is stable as a result of the US, you should think again. It is exactly the contrary. The US itself is involved in wars since basically its foundation. The reason you say this is because you probably live in the US or one of its rich close alies. Everyone else will tell you that life under US hegemony means constant wars, coups, and political instability.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ethbr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:56AM (#32151498)
Could you give some examples? The US has certainly abused its power (notoriously, in the 60s and 70s at the height of the Cold War), but "constant" appears to be stretching historical fact to fit a narrative.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by coliveira on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @10:13AM (#32151746)
Are you forgetting that the US has been actively involved in non-stop wars around the world for the last 20 years? And before these wars started, it was doing "special operations" in eastern Europe, parts of Asia and Africa? And in Latin America it never really stoped its coups, military dictatorships and the such, especially in central America. And then of course there was the "cold" war and all the crimes in South Asia...
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by snovv_crash on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @10:51AM (#32152350)
Look at the hundred years before that. Everyone was fighting, all the time, not just one country with roughly one skirmish (by historical standards) at any single point.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by bilbo0s on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:39PM (#32154289)
You are all missing the point.

War is a constant.

It was in the past.

It is a constant today.

And it will be in the future.

All nations are, at heart, "evil" in this regard. Essentially, nations are just scaled up street gangs with more destructive weapons.

The only proven method of keeping these street gangs from getting too far out of hand, of keeping all our war at the level of low intensity conflict, is MAD. Nations behave only at the barrel of a gun. To argue that America is "evil" is as irrelevant as it is to argue that America is "good".

For instance, I know that all nations can be said to be "evil" at root, and "good" at root. Here's the thing though, do you think it matters to me if China is "evil" and "good"? Of course not, they're just a different street gang. The US has a responsibility to humanity to keep them in line. Should it matter to China that the US street gang is "evil" and "good"? No. They have a responsibility to humanity to keep the US in line.

In the age of weapons of mass destruction, only mutually assured destruction has ensured these street gangs don't come into conflict. Relying on sunshine and rainbows and unicorns that crap out skittles is nonsense. This is not a children's game of "good guys-bad guys". There are no good guys or bad guys. Only nations, (street gangs), pursuing interests. They are kept in line only at the barrel of a gun. Take that gun away and they will run rampant.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by Msw242 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:14PM (#32154873)
I mostly agree with you, except I don't believe that MAD is a sufficient deterrent, or that low level conflict is unlikely to evolve into large scale war.

The best way, in my mind to minimize conflict is through a global monopoly on violence, one street gang to rule them all

This is what the last 30 years have been

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by bilbo0s on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:56PM (#32155501)
This is what the last 30 years have been

Only they haven't.

The reason the US and Russia haven't run rampant the last 30 years is because the US and Russia can blow each other away. So Russia satisfies itself with Georgia and now Ukraine. And the US satisfies itself with those nations in the MidEast region. Remove Russia, and the US would have been all over the yard. Remove the US, and Russia would have been all over the yard.

And now with the rise of China, mankind is even safer. Not only that, but more of mankind have begun to enjoy the benefits of safety. The US and Russia were perfectly willing to fight a proxy war in Korea 70 years ago. They wouldn't dare do that today. Why? The Chinese presence in any MAD calculations.

Today Africa is much safer, it is developing much faster. A large part of the reason for that is the presence of China. Now instead of proxy wars, the great powers compete to see who can deliver Africa the most undersea bandwidth for instance. This is a much better situation for Africans than the situation that existed when only the US and Russia were superpowers. And this situation exists because of MAD. It proves that an armed society is a polite society.

The US, China and Russia are all fulfilling their responsibility to keep the peace by maintaining lethal arsenals of weapons of mass destruction so that they are each confident in their own ability to destroy the others. And that is good for all of us "little people" in the world. Whether we are American, Chinese or Russian. (And even good for us if we are Korean, African, or from South America.)

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by coliveira on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @05:23PM (#32158173)
I agree. The result of N. Korea acquiring nuclear weapons was the cessation of the idea of direct war against the Korean regime. I believe if Iran already had nukes we wouldn't be talking about the possibility of war there, either.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ethbr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:10PM (#32160058)
The difficult calculus with Iran is trying to decide if they're actually pious enough to immolate themselves to take out Israel. Or whether a group could come to power who might be.

North Korea is insane in its own way, but hereditary personality cults do have a history of acting in the interest of self-preservation.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ethbr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @02:01PM (#32155576)
Russia specifically developed their "de-escalation" policy of tactical nuclear weapons use under MAD assumptions.

Basically, betting that there were scenarios where the US wouldn't risk escalation to nuclear war in response to a calibrated Russian tactical nuclear strike in a third party country, thus allowing Russian nuclear effects to nullify superior western precision weapons without consequence.

https://thebulletin.org/2022/03/russian-military-doctrine-ca...

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by coliveira on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @05:20PM (#32158142)
> superior western precision weapons

At this point there is no support for the idea that US weapons have superior precision. The Russian campaign is showing the opposite.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by _kbh_ on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @11:41PM (#32161132)
Russian MLRS’s certainly fire rockets that have a much lower precision then modern US systems (HIMARS/M270).

Here’s a good video showing the difference.

https://mobile.twitter.com/revishvilig/status/15402647613292...

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ethbr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:56PM (#32159965)
O_o

A) NATO's air campaign in the Kosovo War (1999) certainly scared the shit out of Russia.

B) That Russia is currently bombarding Ukrainian cities with repurposed surface to air missiles doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in their ability to produce sufficient quantities of precision missiles for even a moderate scale conflict.

C) The majority of Ukrainian platforms at this point still aren't Western, and thus incapable of firing NATO precision ordinance.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by throw0101a on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @12:40PM (#32154313)
> If you think the world is stable as a result of the US, you should think again.

"Stable" in some kind of Platonic absolute sense, or "more stable that things would have otherwise been"?

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by tuxie_ on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:13AM (#32150404)
It's sad but not surprising that you think that the US did not promote, finance, or execute dictatorships and all kinds of destabilizing tactics against democratically elected governments for the sole reason of not agreeing with their policies. They even sent agents to my country to teach the military how to torture civilians.

The only difference is that they were careful to not do it directly, or do it in secret. Exactly the same way they are doing in Ukraine now, where they avoid giving the weapons directly to Ukraine, but instead they use the well exercised muscle of influence.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by zaphar on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:55AM (#32150785)
Ukraine is a terrible example. Russia started that, not Ukraine or the US. Giving weapons and funding it would have been completely absent without Russian aggression.

Promoting a better way for countries to adopt, partnering with them in economic activity and education, and helping them to defend themselves when neighbors try to use aggression to oppose that partnership is a much better mechanism for bettering the world than outright war and conquering other nations.

Does the US do shady stuff that bites them later? Yes. Is the world overall better with the US as one of the biggest out there for now? Also yes. Both things can be true.

By all means shine a light on, and oppose the shady stuff but don't make the mistake of thinking that the world doesn't need a strong entity who can both promote and also defend better ways to govern.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by Msw242 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:18AM (#32151020)
Yeah, we do a bunch of fucked up shit, like fueling the civil war in Yemen, the banana wars, and much, much more.

We're less extractive than the alternative, and the US having an effective monopoly on violence has been a stabilizing force.

Europeans really don't deserve a voice in this whole conversation given that they rely entirely on the US for protection. Germany's decision to build Nord Stream 2 demonstrates how detached they are from realpolitik.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by mbg721 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:23AM (#32150483)
There are plenty of regional powers that aren't particularly violent or unstable; the traditional concern--regardless of whether it's true--isn't that the US itself would devolve into chaos, it's that by suddenly ceasing to be able to project force in other countries, it would leave power vacuums.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by trasz on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:19AM (#32150454)
>what the world would look like without America running the show: conquest and genocide in Ukraine, saber rattling in the south china sea, genocide of the Kurds.

Meanwhile with America running the show: entire regions - South America and Middle East - largely destroyed, with tens of millions of victims.

America isn’t the “world police”, they are just the main bully.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by arroz on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:53AM (#32151441)
How did the US destroy South America? And please don’t talk about military dictatorship that happened decades ago .-.

Middle East has also been invaded by Europe and Russia

China has been running concentration camps on middle eastern (for now the ones within their borders)

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by the_only_law on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:54AM (#32151461)
Ah yes, if it happened in the past it had no relvance today.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ethbr0 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @10:04AM (#32151599)
The strongest argument for the US destroying South America, aside from the obvious propping up of strong men, is probably training and supporting right-wing militias to combat communism.

The effect of their existence as a power base then cascading into politics, etc.

That said, most of South America's recent woes have generally been economic (Guatamala, Venezuela), and the rise of Chavez (and the US not directly acting against his movement for decades) undercuts the "US is responsible for what happens in South America" position.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by tehsauce on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @06:43AM (#32149753)
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Best of luck
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by brimstedt on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:02AM (#32150324)
Easy to say, I know, but people like you should not leave.

You should stay and make a change.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by SXX on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:36AM (#32151206)
How is he suppose to make a change? Go to prison? Is your country actively provide asylum for non-celebrities Russian political immigrants and their families?

When Putin captured all the power in the country, rigged the elections, killed journalists no one cared at all. US, EU, UK, etc - no reaction at all. War with Georgia - no reaction.

When Russia actually started this war 8 years ago and annexed Crimea there been really weak reaction and after everyone just did business as usual. EU even sold Kremlin equipment to fight protesters as well as military weapons on condition they will only be used "inside the country".

When Russian opposition leader Navalny was poisoned again no real sanctions were introduced. Now US, EU and UK expect people to go on streets and protest.

PS: I am from Russia and I immigrated to Turkey on 25th of February and there is nothing fun about going into unplanned political immigration. I dont try to remove all responsibility from myself or someone else, but even I as software engineer have very limited capacity to do political activity. Since I have a job and my family to feed.

Now from abroad I help my friends from Ukraine when I can and I publicly share my political statementa that will land me to prison if I ever come back. But sorry I'm not going to destroy my life for the cause.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by negus on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:06AM (#32150350)
Can you propose some specific actions?
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by formerly_proven on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:31AM (#32150562)
> When the war began, the population of Russia had become divided between those who supported this war, those who did not even care, and those who opposed to the war. I'll speak about first two categories later, so now's about the last one (so-called sensible people).

> When the war began, some sensible Russian people had stated that they were ashamed to be a Russians. Others had stated that they were not responsible for Putin's actions, because he was always a usurper and they were always against him. I think the both sides are wrong. On the one side, it is foolish to be ashamed of your nationality, just as to be proud of it, because the origin of a person does not depend on his will. Only your actions can be a sources of your pride or shame. On the other side, unlike the legal responsibility that may be personal only, moral responsibility may be both personal and collective. Personal responsibility is a responsibility for own acts that constitute the objective aspect of a crime. Collective responsibility is incurred when a persons have not done all measures within their power to avoid the situation in which the crime is committed on behalf of society of which these persons are a part.

> Just some examples. Anna Politkovskaya and Boris Nemtsov are not responsible for this war, because they resisted Putin's regime, fought for Russian civil society, and, as a result, gave their lives. Alexei Navalny is alive but he survived an assassination attempt, was imprisoned and is still fighting Putin's regime, so he is not responsible for this war. Yuri Nesterenko is not responsible for this war too, because he distanced himself from Russian society in advance, stating in 2010 that Russia was always absolute and pure evil growing out of mentality of Russians, and he had for ever left Russia and was granted asylum in USA.

> Quite simply, if you want to avoid the collective responsibility you should stake your life on the line fighting for your society and become a hero or sever all ties with your society in advance and become an outcast.

> As for me personally, I have not severed all ties with Russian society and I'm alive and even not jailed. Therefore, I share collective responsibility for all what is going on now.

> My beliefs have evolved, and there are some things seemed right earlier but not seem right now. I was constant in one thing – in categorical opposition to Putin's regime. I always believed that the expression of discontent is not enough, because words don't change the world. I carried out actions using all tools available to me. I was a lawyer (even good, in opinion of some people) and tried to uphold the law, rights and freedoms, not just as a representative of a party to the proceedings – for money, but also on my own behalf – for an idea. Fight for an idea has brought nothing but problems; however, I knew what I was about. I wasn't naive man, I saw dictatorship, a priori incompatible with justice, was being established in Russia, but at that time I felt obliged to use all available legal arrangements. However, in 2020, after the amendments to the Russian Constitution was approved, I realized that I finally had enough. The country where the law was replaced by schizophrenic delusion of psychotic führer, really doesn't need lawyers, and, under these circumstances, I considered it shameful to continue to pretend that well-written legal document has any meaning. I saw that elections, mass protests, petitions, legal proceedings didn't work. I saw that attempts to change the situation through a violence against government structures (see this) did not work too, because it didn't resonate with society. I don't know what I should do now to change the situation. Anyway I realize that all things what I did earlier were inefficient - I haven't prevented the transformation my country into fascist dictatorship. And so, again, I share collective responsibility for all what is going on now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:K8M8S8

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by FpUser on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:54AM (#32151468)
>"Collective responsibility is incurred when a persons have not done all measures within their power to avoid the situation in which the crime is committed on behalf of society of which these persons are a part."

Cut the crap. We are all part of a single society - people of the earth. Follow your logic we should be doing nothing else but trying to stop the world acting the way it does. The atrocities are everywhere. I would not be able to sleep and function at all if I've felt that "collective" responsibility. This is not how humans work.

Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by blitz_skull on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:09AM (#32149942)
This comment seems in bad faith. I think it’s pretty clear this conversation wasn’t about killing civilians so the comment about “whatever necessary” probably wasn’t intended to include violations of the Geneva convention. Just saying.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by bigDinosaur on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:43AM (#32150181)
'Whatever it needs' is fairly unambiguous language and including violence in that is not a particularly unpopular viewpoint in recent history.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by blitz_skull on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:57AM (#32150290)
“Whatever” is by definition ambiguous. It might include violence, sure, but when the comment specifically mentioned data and the actual content at hand several times, it can be pretty safely concluded that it doesn’t include violence.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by Kaze404 on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:26AM (#32150515)
I think it’s pretty safe to say that “whatever it needs” at the very least includes things the country is already doing, and violence is definitely in that list. Both internally and externally.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by virgildotcodes on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @08:13AM (#32150399)
I mean, we have a number of examples of governments using this data to do anything from harassing to imprisoning or even assassinating dissidents. So even saying "just" access to data is what you're defending doesn't really address the fact that data is often used for oppressive and violent ends.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by stevenjgarner on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @09:35AM (#32151198)
Personally I find it rewarding how the accuracy of language matters here on HN. Initially when someone voted down one of my comments I was all butt-hurt. Then I got to realizing how justified the down-vote was as I was being lazy with my use of language - I was not actually saying what I really meant. Slowly it helped me think first then write what I actually meant. Still not perfect, but so much more intentional. After all, many of us here on HN are coders of one sort or another, where the accuracy of (computer) language is all too important. It should matter no less how accurately we talk with one another?
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by LudwigNagasena on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @07:12AM (#32149966)
It’s not clear considering that the US has been engaging in various military conflicts of dubious legitimacy to keep its status for many years.
Re:FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be r... by ncphil on Tuesday July 19, 2022 @01:24PM (#32155021)
At least they "think" that they're maintaining their status. Check back at mid-century when things _really_ start to fall apart and see where the US and those who control it are.