News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
[dead]
Re:GPT-4chan by sva_ on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:36PM (#31614545)
> it’s literally radicalizing very young kids.

Do you have a source for that claim?

I think 4chan is a cesspool, but I don't think it should be banned. Young kids should be supervised by their parents, rather than turning the whole web into a child-friendly zone. There are without a doubt many websites that are much worse for children.

Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:09PM (#31614888)
I was pretty gung-ho about the free speech aspect of it but I feel differently now. There are a couple of sites radicalizing kids and there’s a huge difference between child-friendly and killing the hate machine.
Re:GPT-4chan by ActorNightly on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:44PM (#31615224)
Those sites exist specifically because all the popular ones specifically are designed to be echochambers, and boot the "controvercial" users off. So those users collectively move to other sites and start their own echochamber. And then when new people join, they arent seeing both sides of the conversation, which is a clear path to radicallization.

The way to fix this isnt with silencing, its by exact opposite -promoting controvercy and rewarding discussion around it while punishing low effort posts and replies.

Re:GPT-4chan by narrator on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:37PM (#31615976)
In context, 4chan can be a useful toy to teach about ideology. Ideology is any belief system where the fundamental ideas are defended with insults, censorship, and threats. There are many banned ideologies on display on 4chan that are disallowed on other platforms where they are exclusively countered with insults, threats and censorship.

Without criticism and challenge by other ideological belief systems, mainstream liberal ideology can easily fall into things like Lysenkoism in the Soviet Union. That was a politically enforced non-belief in genetics in plants. Lysenko believed for example that plants could change species by being exposed to cold temperatures. Stalin was a fan, so everyone that criticized Lysenko was persecuted until finally the Soviets came to their senses after years of poor agricultural performance and failed experiments. There are a lot of these types of ideologically unquestionable beliefs in the west. That you probably already know what they are shows how deep and obvious the defects are.

Re:GPT-4chan by hjkl0 on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:35AM (#31617315)
> Ideology is any belief system where the fundamental ideas are defended with insults, censorship, and threats

That’s a very _ideological_ definition of ideology.

Ideology is any system of ideas or beliefs, period. That goes for the good ones as well as the bad.

Your description is just defining “someone else’s ideology”. Obviously you wouldn’t defend your own ideology with insults, censorship and threats.

Re:GPT-4chan by prox on Saturday June 04, 2022 @03:49AM (#31618013)
No, while I would say 4chan could be illustrative, it’s not by any means a good example tool or useful to teach.

The right way is to teach about philosophy (and the many different philosophies) and the merits in using argumentation based on reasoning and understanding of the topic, as well as becoming aware of fallacies and bad faith discussion.

Re:GPT-4chan by nonrandomstring on Saturday June 04, 2022 @05:54AM (#31618636)
> Ideology is any belief system where the fundamental ideas are defended with insults, censorship, and threats.

This is a distorted and negative interpretation of the word "ideology". Please try not to misuse the word pejoratively, as anti-idealism, being itself an ideology, places you in a somewhat paradoxical stance. :)

Many ideologies are positive, humanistic and rest on rational well argued and widely accepted values.

Here is a fairly neutral explanation of the word "ideology" with some examples to help you appreciate its scope [1].

[1] https://examples.yourdictionary.com/ideology-examples.html

Re:GPT-4chan by A4ET8a8uTh0 on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:03PM (#31615761)
I guess my real question is:

Why should constitution bend to your, clearly, changeable feelings?

I don't love 4chan, but I dislike someone's sensibilities governing my life more.

Re:GPT-4chan by Akronymus on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:18PM (#31614990)
So, with the same reasoning reddit should be banned? (specifically the radicalizing part)
Re:GPT-4chan by otf50944 on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:53PM (#31615296)
No, but reddit should be banned anyway for having such a high concentration of cringe
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:21PM (#31615027)
Reddit does a lot to kill the hate while remaining objective. So no.
Re:GPT-4chan by baud147258 on Friday June 03, 2022 @08:03PM (#31615384)
I don't completely disagree on 'killing the hate', Reddit is at worst neutral on that, but objective? Like have you checked any of the big subreddits?
Re:GPT-4chan by otf50944 on Friday June 03, 2022 @08:05PM (#31615396)
Imagine using the words reddit and objective in the same sentence
Re:GPT-4chan by archerx on Saturday June 04, 2022 @02:37AM (#31617656)
Reddit is objectively one of the most hateful places on the internet.
Re:GPT-4chan by betwixthewires on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:09PM (#31615791)
So no source then. Got it.
Re:GPT-4chan by otf50944 on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:56PM (#31615312)
what's more desirable: having all of the extremists congregate on one big website or shut that website down and have a diaspora of different, smaller sites that are even more extreme?
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @08:06PM (#31615414)
A diaspora that isn’t a one stop shop without a doubt.
Re:GPT-4chan by EarlKing on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:37PM (#31615973)
Speaking from 30+ years being online in one form or another: That doesn't work. It has never worked. The public know censorship when they see it and correctly identify it as weakness. It doesn't silence dissent -- it encourages it.
Re:GPT-4chan by car_analogy on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:55AM (#31617430)
That's why great care is taken that they don't see it. How often do you, on Facebook or Twitter, see "This message has been censored/had its visibility limited due to [reasons]"?

They put up fact-checks under a post sometimes, but what those fact-checks mean for the visibility of a post is left to your imagination. If a post or link is outright censored, you don't find out about it until you try to post it. As their censorship intruded even into so-called private messages on those platforms, even in a 1-to-1 conversation, sending something prohibited doesn't show any kind of "Prohibited content censored" message to the recipient (even non-spam).

They'd much rather you don't know they're censoring anything.

Re:GPT-4chan by EarlKing on Saturday June 04, 2022 @02:56AM (#31617741)
They would, yes, but obviously they're not very good about it. Everyone knows they're doing it, and on what basis, too, which rather defeats the purpose and clues people in that there is something about that message which is dangerous to the interests of the censoring party. And here's the thing: The reason everyone knows about it is that on a long enough timeline everyone posts something that offends the perpetually offended.
Re:GPT-4chan by popcube on Saturday June 04, 2022 @09:22AM (#31620024)
It had worked ok once! you know... how FBI capture people who participated 1/6
Re:GPT-4chan by usrn on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:19PM (#31616275)
This might happen if we ever ban the gays from "radicalizing" children but I doubt that will happen either.
Re:GPT-4chan by ThrowawayTestr on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:28PM (#31614458)
Minors aren't allowed on 4chan.
Re:GPT-4chan by devindotcom on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:29PM (#31614477)
I don't even know how to respond to this!
Re:GPT-4chan by Fatnino on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:48PM (#31614665)
Technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:04PM (#31614841)
There’s no enforcement so it will never work.
Re:GPT-4chan by throwaway0x7E6 on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:29PM (#31615105)
so let's ban porn, violent video games and heavy metal while we're at it. think of the children all the way
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:53PM (#31615295)
Porn doesn’t cause violent behavior. Neither do video games or heavy metal as proven through high n studies.
Re:GPT-4chan by robonerd on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:06PM (#31616578)
Europeans say violent movies can negatively influence people, but don't worry so much about sexually explicit content.

Americans say sexually explicit content can negatively influence people, but don't worry so much about violent content.

Personally, I think both are partially right. We are what we eat. No human mind is inviolable, the information we consume effects who and what we are. Whether any particular influence is positive or negative is mostly a matter of subjective values.

Re:GPT-4chan by vajrabum on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:18PM (#31615846)
But Nazi propaganda does cause Nazism. They called it redpilling, but it's clear on the chans anyway that means Nazism.
Re:GPT-4chan by yuipas on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:49PM (#31615267)
Let's ban porn at least, because it's harmful to women, both personally to those involved in this industry, and societally in the misogynistic attitudes it normalizes.
Re:GPT-4chan by drdeca on Friday June 03, 2022 @08:57PM (#31615720)
I'm conflicted on this issue. I think it harms the people who use it, and I have been harmed by my use of it, but at the same time I am uncomfortable about such a ban-through-law due to speech issues? Not that there's any valuable speech that is expressed through it, but I think it is best to have a very wide buffer around the region of "what could actually be important as a way to express views", because if the boundary of what is legally protected is at all close to the boundary of things actually important to protect, I expect the law to get it wrong and have things that need to be protected, not be protected. Or at least, I think the risk of that is too high.

(Though, the really weird thing is how there is porn about porn being harmful? bizarre.)

(That being said, I'm all for private platforms tending to ban it, at least provided that the reason they can do so isn't just due to monopoly stuff. So if twitter banned it, that would be good imo.)

Re:GPT-4chan by sterlind on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:25PM (#31616672)
let's not legislate morality please. I've been interested in doing niche porn, because I have an unusual body, and feeling sexy feels good. I don't want a bunch of men deciding that what I do is harmful to me and needs to be banned.
Re:GPT-4chan by achenet on Saturday June 04, 2022 @05:16AM (#31618446)
Increase in Net access decreases rapes, probably due to porn.[0]

Personally, I call that a good thing, even if yes, porn can be very unhealthy for both creators and consumers.

[0] https://slate.com/culture/2006/10/proof-that-internet-porn-p...

Re:GPT-4chan by seba_dos1 on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:26PM (#31622280)
Porn isn't inherently harmful, abusive nor misogynistic. It can be, and very often is, but that's not the point of it. I believe that it simply reflects the properties of the society as a whole. A feministic society would come with feministic porn in its spotlight.
Re:GPT-4chan by boppo1 on Monday June 06, 2022 @12:55AM (#31637361)
check out omgyes
Re:GPT-4chan by A4ET8a8uTh0 on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:08PM (#31615783)
Porn is probably one of the few vents that keep most men relatively docile these days. I am not sure misogyny would decrease if it were banned.
Re:GPT-4chan by throwaway0x7E6 on Saturday June 04, 2022 @01:41AM (#31617356)
you've missed the memo. porn is good now. all detractors are literally nazis

I'm not joking

Re:GPT-4chan by the_only_law on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:26AM (#31616976)
> so let's ban porn, violent video games and heavy metal while we're at it. think of the children all the way

Hah, this seems to be coming back in recent times, with states trying impose bans or paywalls on porn or Chicago making their officials look like clowns by linking GTAV to increased carjackings that happened long after the games release.

Re:GPT-4chan by bobsmooth on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:21AM (#31616962)
You can report users for being underage.
Re:GPT-4chan by tuxie_ on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:18PM (#31614373)
I don't understand why this is in the homepage. Maybe I just don't get it because I never used 4chan.
Re:GPT-4chan by thegreatdukd on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:24PM (#31614432)
There is a solid video explanation (though the author is undermining the toxicity of the average 4chan /pol/ posts): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efPrtcLdcdM. A really interesting experiment.
Re:GPT-4chan by mysore on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:30PM (#31614485)
That's what they said about socrates.
Re:GPT-4chan by robonerd on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:17PM (#31616629)
What if they were right? Some of the Thirty Tyrants were Socrates' former pupils.
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:22PM (#31615038)
They didn’t. They said he was a drunk but never imprisoned him.
Re:GPT-4chan by otf50944 on Friday June 03, 2022 @08:00PM (#31615348)
Source? Ever read Plato's Apology?
Re:GPT-4chan by yieldcrv on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:50PM (#31614690)
/b/ and /pol/ aren't the whole thing
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:06PM (#31614862)
It leaks into everything and having spent a lot of time on there all the way from 2007 you’re wrong if you tell me otherwise.
Re:GPT-4chan by yuipas on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:44PM (#31615229)
This is very true.
[dead]
Re:GPT-4chan by Schopenhauer01 on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:04PM (#31616171)
Everybody is, thats the best part.
Re:GPT-4chan by pelagicAustral on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:41PM (#31622470)
Wouldn’t like to agree to this but it is just reality. Of all social networks out there 4chan remains the only one I can truly recognize as a digital form or democratic behavior. A generally biased, abusive and corrupted to the core, but equal to all users. Plus there some really clever boards like /g/, every once in a while I pop around and browse through.
Re:GPT-4chan by yieldcrv on Saturday June 04, 2022 @05:11PM (#31625116)
and also hilarious
Re:GPT-4chan by vajrabum on Friday June 03, 2022 @09:20PM (#31615854)
Not speaking for the person you're responding to but if you call incessant Nazism and anti-semitism bullying then yes.
Re:GPT-4chan by blangk on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:21PM (#31614401)
Banned from where?
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:22PM (#31614408)
Global internet.
Re:GPT-4chan by usrn on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:21PM (#31616294)
You have a critical misunderstanding of how the internet works.
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:46AM (#31617077)
No I don’t. It’s served from a server. Take down the server, it’s not rocket science.
Re:GPT-4chan by usrn on Saturday June 04, 2022 @06:11AM (#31618701)
Who's taking the server down if the server operator doesn't mind it?
Re:GPT-4chan by LAC-Tech on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:15PM (#31614958)
I disagree, but I admire the honesty of this post.
Re:GPT-4chan by mailbag on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:27PM (#31614457)
do you feel the same way about reddit?
Re:GPT-4chan by bergenty on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:05PM (#31614851)
No, they have sympathetic owners.
Re:GPT-4chan by at_a_remove on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:18PM (#31614989)
Sympathetic to WHOM?

Your side, your feelings, your way of thinking.

Re:GPT-4chan by pelagicAustral on Saturday June 04, 2022 @12:42PM (#31622486)
Are you a bot?