News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by samwillis on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @05:40AM (#30083883)
> I feel like I'm encountering more and more sites and articles where I can't seem to find the date.

It seems to me that its become standard practice on marketing type blogs for corporate websites to remove the date from their posts. I think its because (from personal experience) the company will go though a burst of "blog productivity" create a load of content but then not touch it for years, they don't want that content to look out of date or their website to look stagnant.

Removing the date from their posts, or any other content, hides how old it is and therefore obscures how active they are at crating new content.

Most companies try to use their blogs to attract new customers, a new customer may visit their website once or twice and will never see the blog again, it's not important that they do. They don't want it to look stale.

As a counter example, an interesting thread from yesterday [0] was about how CloudFlare use their blog not as a marketing tool but for technical content and attracting employees. They very regulally use their blog, and so keep the date on it showing how fresh it is.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30070422

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by pimlottc on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:29AM (#30085111)
There’s a popular concept in the content industry of “evergreen content”, meaning posts that are always relevant or useful regardless of when they were originally posted. The idea is that articles will have a longer “shelf life” if they are not tied to a particular date or recent event.

Of course, producing true evergreen content takes more effort than just removing the publish date but that’s one easy way to fake it.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bo1024 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:55AM (#30085377)
Originally posted: <date>

Most recent update: <date>

Edit: it’s only a matter of time till an article stops getting updated. Of course I doubt people in the “content industry” (tell me that’s not a real thing) care what happens to anyone else after they stop updating their ‘evergreen’ page.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by igneo676 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @02:27PM (#30090457)
A past employer almost went with this approach, but with a technical audience it's hard to cover all the edge cases with RSS. People get cranky when they get pinged when an article updates superficially, but you also want people updated when the article is basically completely rewritten

Safer to just publish a new article when there's a sufficient amount of content to update. Link the articles together somehow. Maybe add a disclaimer to older (and not updated) articles that they might no longer be valid

Also solves the problem others have mentioned where they don't trust the date on articles. If you have a solid previous article to link to, you're more likely to build trust that the new one really is new

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by kevincox on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @03:53PM (#30091653)
I don't see how this is a problem with RSS. RSS (and the other feed formats) have a concept of an entry ID. If user's don't want to see updates they only show items with a new entry ID.

To get even more nuanced generally a superficial update shouldn't change the "updated" time, this gives another level of control.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by habeebtc on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:25AM (#30086589)
I see some articles which always have a "last updated" of today. You can refresh a day later and watch it change.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bbarnett on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:35AM (#30085874)
people in the “content industry” (tell me that’s not a real thing)

I think if there is a thing of any sort, there's an industry for it.

And if it sound dumb to an engineer type, it's more likely there's a lot of it.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by da39a3ee on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:49AM (#30086073)
It’s too general though isn’t it. It would be like the “doing stuff” industry being a thing. There might be people who use the term, but that doesn’t mean the term points to any actual phenomenon in the real world.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by supernovae on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:30AM (#30086667)
It's a huge industry. There are services to buy writers, buy content, trade content, link content, guest post so on and so forth.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bo1024 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @04:29PM (#30092178)
That was my reaction, it’s scary right. Like need an article on safely installing a light switch? Call the content industry. Managing stored PII and passwords? Content industry. Medical information? Content industry.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by jrochkind1 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:12AM (#30085577)
I see that a lot these days with "most recent update" that I'm pretty sure is a lie. Or maybe they changed some tiny thing to make it not a technical lie.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bbarnett on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:41AM (#30085954)
Marketing is all about lying. Making up fake reviews, customer testimonials.

Exaggerating (which is lying) about the product.

Explaining how good it will make you feel, or better yet, showing photos of people very happy, using the products.

Acting = lying, photshopped photos = lying, fictitious scenarios of use = lying.

Lying is required to write a story (when you read a fiction book, you want the lie about reality, for it is fun to imagine.)

This is a lie all parties engage in willingly.

But marketing types have a sole purpose. To lie, but make it look like truth.

So they don't care one iota about really updating an article or not.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by nerbert on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:16AM (#30086484)
Movie with CGI such as Star Wars = lying?
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by TuringTest on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:23AM (#30086566)
Fiction is lies only when you want to pass them off as the truth:

"That's right -- and when you get to the human world, the Nothing will cling to you. You'll be like a contagious disease that makes humans blind, so they can no longer distinguish between reality and illusion. Do you know what you and your kind are called there?"

"No," Atreyu whispered.

"Lies!" Gmork barked

― Michael Ende, The Neverending Story

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by TuringTest on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:27AM (#30086627)
There's in the same dialog this warning about advertising and politics:

“When it comes to controlling human beings there is no better instrument than lies. Because, you see, humans live by beliefs. And beliefs can be manipulated. The power to manipulate beliefs is the only thing that counts

... Who knows what use they’ll make of you? Maybe you’ll help them to persuade people to buy things they don’t need, or hate things they know nothing about, or hold beliefs that make them easy to handle, or doubt the truths that might save them.”

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by sabhiram on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:16AM (#30087345)
need a revisit, that seems appropriate and deep
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by TuringTest on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:23PM (#30088457)
It is! Ende was raised under the esoteric Anthroposophy philosophy, and I suspect much of his works are dedicated to debunk its nonsensical beliefs. The second half of The Neverending Story is a philosophical treaty on itself (it hurts the book as an action story, but gives you a lot to ponder about).

His child books certainly have a deep second reading as adults.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bbarnett on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:14PM (#30088304)
All fiction is a lie, by its very definition.

After all, it claims the unreal as real. Fiction, lies.

The difference with things like fiction in books and movies, for entertainment, is that the listener of the lie, knows it is a lie, and listens for entertainment.

It is not a lie, pretending to be true.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by abyrne10 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:29PM (#30088580)
I would argue that a lie involves deliberate deception, not just untruth. Fiction, then, is not a lie, as by definition it is something imagined or invented, and therefore not created to deceive.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bbarnett on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @01:22PM (#30089484)
I think deceive was created to explain the difference in intent.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by nicbou on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:37PM (#30088689)
Yep, the whole thing is made up!
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by warrenm on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @02:53PM (#30090770)
and then someone figures out how to put a `<?php echo date('l, F jS, Y'); ?>` into the "Most recent update:" line ... voila! Perennially up-to-date!
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by openknot on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:28AM (#30086629)
I first heard about "evergreen content" from the local news industry. To add examples of what it looks like (to demonstrate the extra effort required as you mentioned), here are a couple recent examples from The Guardian (because there's no paywall):

1. "Top 10 novels inspired by Greek myths" (not tied to a recent event): https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jan/26/top-10-novels-...

2. "How to make pea and ham soup - recipe": https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/jan/26/how-to-make-pea...

These are unlikely to pull lots of traffic versus a more timely event (e.g. interview with an author for a recent book release for the first section; except maybe the second as it's a regular column). However, the usefulness about evergreen content for a local print publication was to fill content for the print edition when there was a slow news week (not enough timely news to fill the pages).

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by jonathankoren on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:34AM (#30087662)
The ultimate piece of evergreen content I’ve heard of is Peter Stark’s “Frozen Alive” for Outside Magazine.[0] It’s a story about what hypothermia does to you, told as a second person narrative. It was first written 25 years ago. It was a hit article in 1997, and since at least 2016, it is one of Outside Magazine’s most read articles every year.[1][2]

[0] https://www.outsideonline.com/2152131/freezing-death

[1] https://niemanstoryboard.org/stories/peter-stark-and-as-free...

[2] https://www.npr.org/2019/01/31/690468853/why-peter-starks-fr...

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by ivanhoe on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:11AM (#30084117)
> They don't want it to look stale.

But that can also be extremely counterproductive when the content you publish has a natural expiry date - and in many areas of expertise (pretty much anything other than pure marketing talk) things change over time. Potential client seeing the obsolete information might rightfully presume that the company is out of the loop or just plain unprofessional. If you have a date on the page it's far less likely to happen.

COVID recommendations and measures are one such (rather extreme) example where many big players endangered their credibility because they've failed to properly mark the outdated content.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by sofixa on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:51AM (#30084413)
That's why The Guardian is a pretty great source for news, they add a banner on all old articles saying it's X years old, so beware, information might be stale.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by rgrieselhuber on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:32AM (#30084275)
It also serves as its own form of memory hole, if readers can’t get the context of the date after a few searches, they are likely to just give up.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by taubek on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:15AM (#30085017)
I must say that I put more trust in blog posts that put the notice "Updated: 10/2021") at top of their posts. This communicates to me that this topic was important at some time in the past and that someone is still taking car of the content and is updating from time to time.

Stability and old content can be good. Not everything is being updated and not everything needs to be updated. I'm all for putting dates on pages and blog posts :)

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by narag on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:28AM (#30085102)
When they are just dishonest, saying that it's updated today or recently using a script is just as easy.

They just lie. I was trying to find out why VLC stopped working for me a few months ago [0] and landed in a terrible site where they suggested to do a lot of cargo cult driver updating and whatnot. A few "comments" thanked the author for the comprehensive (and totally fake) information.

This kind of crap seems to be winning. My other recent quest, finding a uni site about consciusness, psychedelia, emerson and 60s music, that I used to visit 20 years ago, was also unsuccessful.

[0] https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc/-/issues/25976

(nobody assigned)

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by NavinF on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:15AM (#30085610)
On that note, Reddit seems to be faking their last modified date metadata for SEO purposes. I’ve seen many old threads (where all the comments are 5 years old with no edits) show up in my Google search results with today’s date below the link. This coincided with and is likely related to the removal of automatic thread archiving 4 months ago.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bbarnett on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:48AM (#30086049)
This also signals an end game, where the last vestiges of true improved, customer facing improvements are over.

With nothing left, one delves into short term growth numbers.

Because of this, some indexes may de-stress reddit by date search, and, by freshness. And some end users will click, become annoyed more often, and stop clicking on reddit links.

They clearly have nothing left, and no other idea how to improve reddit. They have signaled they are well past peak growth.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by taubek on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:28AM (#30086631)
I understand you. I've noticed this kind of behavior on some review sites. They put the latest month in the title but who knows when did they actually update it?
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by stingraycharles on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @05:52AM (#30083976)
Just today I was reading a blog post about some framework (KubeFlow) not being “ready for prime time yet”, and even though the article had great technical details, the fact that it lacked a date made it so much less valuable: it’s highly relevant whether this conclusion was drawn last month or two years ago.

I understand why this happens, but part of me really wishes we could stop this. Maybe there is some archive.org extension that can show me “this page first appeared on $date”.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by mlac on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:42AM (#30084345)
If you found it through google, or search it on google, you can see when it was cached.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by dmortin on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:17AM (#30084621)
One can even envision an extension which fetches the caching dates automatically and shows them right beside the search results.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by shishironline on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:43AM (#30085239)
Open developer tools and type `document.lastModified` in the console. Though this is painful for every web page, is useful in these instances. Maybe someone with experience in developing Chrome extensions, can develop one for getting this plus other useful page info by just clicking on it in the toolbar
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by qw on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:18AM (#30086511)
"last modified" only works for static content, and not pages that are rendered dynamically or where the header is set based on cache settings.

Even for static content, the date may be wrong as the output may have been generated multiple times since it was first created.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by shishironline on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:18AM (#30087379)
Thanks for the info
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by iggldiggl on Friday January 28, 2022 @09:05AM (#30114690)
Wordpress-based blogs (maybe others, too) often have a timestamp hidden in an HTML Meta-tag even if the date is otherwise hidden from regular view.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bryanrasmussen on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:02AM (#30085466)
why would companies who are trying to deceive not go through the trouble of changing the last-modified header? At any rate lots of sites don't set last modified anyway so that makes it January 1, 1970, GMT.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by thatwasunusual on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:57AM (#30085395)
I have the same feeling. Actually, I've seen it in real life. A company I consulted a few years ago created lots of "evergreen content." Now, they had a reason to do so, but...

It would be cool if archive.org (or any others) had an API that made it easy and quick to look up "first seen" timestamp for any given URL.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by jrwr on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:03AM (#30085477)
Here is the API you are looking for: -- https://archive.org/wayback/available?url=example.com&timest... -- this will show the oldest timestamp of a archive that the wayback has. The trick is to set the timestamp to be /really/ old and it will show the first snapshot it has.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by jrochkind1 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:11AM (#30085568)
I don't think you can tell if "the text" of the page has changed since then without manually looking though. I'm not sure how you'd solve this technically, it's probably more than just telling you if the html bytes are identical, since small changes probably happen all the time to "the same article".

Or it might be good enough, because this kind of content is rarely updated at the same url?

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by mark-r on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @01:32PM (#30089668)
I wish Wayback had an indicator for how much the page has changed from one capture to the next. A simple count of the diffs should give you a good idea.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by thatwasunusual on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:44AM (#30085996)
That is irrelevant, at least for me. :)
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by jrochkind1 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:07AM (#30086360)
Why are you interested in when the URL was first there, but not if it has entirely different content than when it was first there?
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by thatwasunusual on Thursday January 27, 2022 @09:06AM (#30100710)
Because I'm only interested in when Wayback first saw the page. Nothing magical. :)
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by thatwasunusual on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:21AM (#30085689)
Very nice, and thanks for that! I'm unable to find usage rules, though.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bloak on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:00AM (#30084919)
BBC television programmes used to give the year in Roman numerals, in the copyright notice, I think. It has been suggested that this was to make it harder for people to notice how old the programme was. The same technique wouldn't work so well on a web site because you couldn't do what the BBC did and leave the Roman number on the screen for about 0.5 s so that most people don't have time to decypher it. Also the dates at the end of the last century were particularly hard to read in Roman. Here's an example. Time yourself:

© MCMXCVIII

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by meigwilym on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:49AM (#30086068)
> It has been suggested that this was to make it harder for people to notice how old the programme was

This is tempting but I don't know how much credence to give it.

It's more to do with a style that was taken on and kept. My father still writes the month in a date using a Roman numeral, e.g. 25/XII/21.

The date format has been around for many years. There weren't that many BBC programmes made, even over the course of many years. To try and convince viewers that a programme was not "old" was difficult. It might be black and white, and the quality certainly would have looked dated.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by mark-r on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @01:35PM (#30089700)
I think the convention started with movies.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by LocalH on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:13AM (#30084997)
I got it in seconds because I used your context of being a date "at the end of the last century", see the VIII and immediately guess "1998"
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by brimble on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @04:40PM (#30092313)
Common in movies, before home media or even broadcast was A Thing, and in some other places. I don't think that's the explanation.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by raverbashing on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:08AM (#30084960)
I'm not sure how true this urban legend is but it is not too hard once you get the hang of it

(And dates aside, how the program ages is more important)

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by INTPenis on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:09AM (#30084964)
Like a true millennial I just entered it into Google and was surprised at the result.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by kps on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:42AM (#30085970)
I was disappointed by [MCMXCVIII]; [MCMXCVIII in decimal] does better, but I really hoped for more like the unit conversion panel.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by JMS2021 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @02:03PM (#30090162)
1998
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by samwillis on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @05:59AM (#30084024)
Just to add an interesting example of a middle ground, the fly.io blog post [0] currently top of HN [1] has the published date "hidden" at the bottom of the article. Their content is technical content that can go out of date but is also useful marketing content. The post is from August 2021 but has been posted to HN today.

0: https://fly.io/blog/run-ordinary-rails-apps-globally/

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30083764

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by saurik on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:05AM (#30084066)
FWIW, I started hating putting dates on most of my stuff because I simply got sick of people incessantly asking "is this still up to date?" because the date happened to be from even just a few months ago much less a year ago.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by nosianu on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:40AM (#30084326)
Why not add something together with the date telling people for how long this information will be valid? Does not have to be a date, can be "indefinitely" or, in the case of software "until new major version update". Works best when you also revisit old content occasionally and update that information. I think you drew the wrong conclusions from those inquiries.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by helsinkiandrew on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:16AM (#30084148)
> I simply got sick of people incessantly asking "is this still up to date?"

I don't know what or where 'your stuff' is - but isn't that a fair question for a lot of topics? Writing about data structures or political protests might be valid for decades but a lot of technical writing about languages, platforms, even products and companies can age very quickly and unlike news or culture might be of less interest to people in the future.

Many people find technical writings whilst searching google for a solution to a problem. I love the articles that have a date and version of whatever platform something is relevant for (even better when someone adds a "this was written for version X.Y things have changed in version X.Z see the doc at..." etc)

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by randcraw on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:50AM (#30085318)
And if you remove the date, people will still ask the same question. Inevitably.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by worble on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:21AM (#30084186)
It's a valid question, you don't have to respond to them but at least if the date is there the user themselves can have a fighting chance at looking up what's changed since then.

It's entirely possible a tutorial made for software 3 months ago or something might have outdated information if there was a new, backwards incompatible release, or that a news article might be missing information that was revealed only a few days ago, etc.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by dusted on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:16AM (#30084613)
Yeah, that can be a problem, I used to put a Created and an Updated date, but now I just have a Last updated date.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by jzer0cool on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:34AM (#30084286)
I notice this sometimes also in academic papers. I would like to see a date but it is not usually presented. Is this for similar reason?
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by pjc50 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:02AM (#30084519)
That seems surprising - many citation formats involve the date?
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by KineticLensman on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:52AM (#30084866)
The problem is the downloaded pages of the papers themselves, which often completely lack proper bibliographic data (or even header/footer info other than a page number). Compare this with a page from a corporate tech report, where each page might have the title and document number somewhere.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by marcosdumay on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:25AM (#30085090)
They used to come in magazines, with the date on the front, and authorship metadata on the index.

Nowadays they come as individual papers, but the publishers kept the format... because, why change anything when you have guaranteed profits?

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by sebastianconcpt on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:38AM (#30084306)
In academic content, the lack of date is the most pernicious!
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by kristjansson on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:47PM (#30088859)
Depending on the source, it might not be published yet, or the PDF you grabbed might be a pre-print while the 'officially' published article is behind a journal paywall.

Generally, I take the publication dates of the cited works as representative of the age of the paper.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by rjmunro on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:42AM (#30084794)
I've heard of some marketing things updating the date periodically without changing the contents in order to trick people and/or search engines into thinking it's new.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by markdown on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:46AM (#30084818)
These days they'll change the title.

An article with the title "The ten best pencils you can buy [January 2022]" written in 2017.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by anthony_romeo on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:56AM (#30087026)

  The ten best pencils you can buy {{ datetime.date.today().strftime('%B %Y') }}
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by lancesells on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:58AM (#30084902)
Normal SEO advice is to update your dates and copy so Google thinks it's "fresh".
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by albert_e on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:23AM (#30084653)
one strange example for me --

AWS has tons of training content they make freely available to their partners and wider community.

In many cases though there are no dates! (youtube shows date of upload but AWS' own training sites lack such markers. We have to guess based on copyright year in the slide footers)

It is clear that they invest heavily in creating new training content. In fact they essentially repeat the same content multiple times in many live tech talks and partnercasts etc. So there is no dearth of new content. It is also well known that they release new features very frequently -- so knowing how recent the content is helps a lot. But they still do this -- seemingly deliberately.

They recently overhauled their whole digital learning portal -- renamed it AWs Skill Builder, built it using the docebo LMS/CMS portal -- changed a lot of things but didnt make any effort to add a published date to any of the courses.

Frustrating.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by lowmagnet on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:09AM (#30084969)
Their API docs are incorrect half the time because they rarely update them. Finding documentation on their dynamic parameter system that all APIs use dumps you out on one page with every possible parameter domain.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by rdegges on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @05:22PM (#30092912)
At Snyk (https://snyk.io) we're actually working on a new blog process to refine this. Essentially, a problem almost every technical blog has is: when we publish articles, are they ephemeral -- or are they evergreen?

If you treat blog posts as ephemeral, it means you'll write them once, ensure they're accurate, then leave them there forever. Unfortunately, with technology stuff, that rarely works. Technologies change, libraries break, facts now might be different in two years, etc.

One of the things we're currently working on is tagging all of our technical content so that once a year it pops up in a review board somewhere and someone reviews it for accuracy, updates it if necessary, etc.

This way, technical stuff will still be useful to readers (hopefully) a couple of years from now.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by dariosalvi78 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @05:39PM (#30093119)
That sounds like more something that you would do on a wiki than a blog ..
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by lvncelot on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:45AM (#30084363)
This is absolutely infuriating when it's meant to be informative, especially about something in a fast-changing landscape, like how-tos on Kubernetes, for instance.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by indigochill on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:00AM (#30084498)
> like how-tos on Kubernetes

Honestly although I've occasionally derived benefit from these, I think I'm reaching a tipping point where I feel the plethora of how-to articles with their ads and newsletter pop-ups and everything are less productive than just some plain old documentation and taking the time to fundamentally understand the tech so that I no longer need the how-to. Mainly because I trust Kubernetes to keep their documentation up-to-date but who knows how current a random how-to article is, never mind the marketing bloat they're usually polluted with.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by mejutoco on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @07:38AM (#30084768)
I agree. The date itself is irrelevant if the content stands on its own (if it mentions the version they are using, for example, or it features arguments explicitely). If bad seo articles stop being read (independently of date) better content, with proper versions listed and argumentation (like official documentation), could take their place.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by pxtail on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @06:52AM (#30084424)
Very easy solution which I'm using when searching for something with expiry date is to look for date first and if it's not there then immediately leave site and not even bother to read anything there, if this is regular practice and domain frequently is at the top then after few times I'm just not visiting it anymore.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by mancerayder on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:17AM (#30086490)
It's a sad state of affairs that marketing needs drive Google. I can hear the "duh" response to that in people's minds (yes we know how Google gets revenue) but - this is the index to the world's data. The World's data portal. It has such repercussions that it's adjusted to suit the needs of online sales and marketing sensibilities.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by setgree on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @12:15PM (#30088314)
> the company will go though a burst of "blog productivity"

One of the most insightful comments I ever read on HN pointed out that marketing folks are good at selling things, period, and that includes selling things internally. So when nascent companies are wondering why the product doesn't sell itself, the first thing they do is hire a Director of Marketing. That person promises deliverables from day 1, and what's more deliverable/visible than a blog? Then they leave -- in my experience, the typical marketing exec's tenure at a startup is about a year -- and no one else feels like putting in the work. Also, by that time, most people have seen that the blog never really drove engagement in the first place.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by headmelted on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:53AM (#30085346)
Increasingly I feel like this is one of those pieces of metadata that we should be moving out of the page.

I would suggest moving it into the browser (i.e. read a meta tag or header) but the obvious problem is that they’ll just be forged and it would almost immediately become pointless.

Search engines could help here. If Google were to provide a last cached date (or a date of the last significant change) in the search result that would be far more useful. They certainly have this information from crawling, and it would be difficult to forge as constant substantial changes to game the system would be both expensive for the author, and harmful to the page’s ranking.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by toss1 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @11:26AM (#30087510)
> I feel like I'm encountering more and more sites and articles where I can't seem to find the date.

Moreover, since static pages are no longer a thing, the system cannot even retrieve the date the file was created/modified, always returns the timestamp from when it was presented on the browser.

Getting EXIF data from images might provide a clue, but the image creation/edits often do not correlate with the text...

If anyone knows how to extract such date info, it'd be helpful

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bliteben on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:58AM (#30086230)
I don't understand why this isn't a seo penalty. I feel like early on with google they actively looked for things like this to rank sites.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by supernovae on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:32AM (#30086686)
SEO wise most blogs will expose metadata that shows publish date and last update date.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by andrewstuart2 on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:49AM (#30086930)
I've experienced some major frustration due to Azure's documentation doing exactly this. Though it may not be limited to Azure. There's just a date on every document and usually it's a month or two old. Many of the examples I've found via Google don't even compile or aren't relevant any more.

I hope this is a trend that can be reversed.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by bleachedsleet on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @10:09AM (#30086386)
> It seems to me that its become standard practice on marketing type blogs for corporate websites to remove the date from their posts.

Worse still, I’ve encountered sites that automatically update their edit dates to be current as a way to optimize SEO. I’ve found articles with decades old information claiming to have been written mere hours or days prior.

Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by TheOtherHobbes on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @08:11AM (#30084979)
Many news sites seem to set the content date to today so they always appear in searches, even though the content is years old.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by nostrademons on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @01:57PM (#30090066)
I wonder how much of this is misguided SEO, thinking that if they leave the date off Google will assume it's fresh content and always surface it in search results, and not realize that Google knows exactly when they first crawled a page.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by api on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @09:33AM (#30085844)
That is exactly it. People are using recent as a proxy for quality.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by mark-r on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @01:40PM (#30089787)
Even more true for open source software. If it isn't recently updated, people assume the project is dead.
Re:Ask HN: Is the past disappearing on the web? by metadat on Wednesday January 26, 2022 @04:38PM (#30092294)
To be fair, bit-rot is a real thing for software, because the world keeps changing. In most cases it takes effort and upkeep to keep everything working.

Annoying, for sure, but this is the reality of software and technology as the landscape continues to evolve over time.