All I can find is anonymous stuff on a website called http://techrights.org/ which has a series of articles trying to in some way associate Nat with Gravely's domestic violence.

The "best friend" claim seems to have started with a weird "teaser" post on techrights.org wherein an anonymous source claims that "many others" can confirm that Gravely was close to Nat. That of course doesn't even come close to establishing that either of them considers the other their "best friend", if it's trustworthy to begin with.

Then techrights.org cites their own teaser in other posts as saying that Gravely claims Nat is his best friend (not true, or at least not supported by the source).

Now you are, I guess, using that as your basis to claim that they ARE in fact best friends.

I realise it's possible you're entirely honest and have sources I don't, but this looks like a pretty cynical smear job to me, especially given that none of the sources I've managed to find asserting that the two were close date from before this domestic abuse case. I don't have any insider knowledge, but the superficial appearance of all this is that a handful of activists with something against Nat have cooked up this "best friend" narrative for some reason, gradually escalating the claim each time they cite each other, and ultimately it all hinges on an anonymous source saying that other anonymous sources say that the two were close once.

Nat and [name redacted] were always exceptionally close, which I always found confusing. [name redacted] was intense, passionate, charismatic, but also had troubled and troubling relationships with people, _particularly_ women. [name redacted] was, if I remember correctly, let go from Ximian when he failed to arrive to work every day by noon for one week straight (we lived a 5 to 10 minute walk from the office).

Even after [name redacted] was let go, he and Nat remained fast friends.

This was the beginning of a long chain of emotionally abusive, controlling, and manipulative behaviors.

Also.. This seems to have disappeared from the front page.

In regards to the front-page, there's a lot of downvotes. Went from 160 upvotes to 121 in a matter of minutes. I suspect bots.

Alex also assaulted me as well during a short, but extremely abusive relationship.

Alex mentioned his relationship with Nat several times and used it to threaten me on multiple occasions.

Alex attending Nat's destination wedding in Italy. It's that's not close, I don't know what is.

Playing devils advocate for one moment: I don’t always agree with friends abandoning other friends when they turn out to be bad people. If a person stands any chance of rehabilitation they need people who are willing to stand by them. This doesn’t mean those friends support their actions - in fact they should be honest about what actions are inexcusable. But as a society we are too quick to claim guilt by association without understanding what their relationship is like and whether that friendship is helping to reform individuals who have been (understandably) abandoned by everyone else around them.

I’m not making direct commentary on Alex and Nat though as I don’t know them nor their relationship. I’m just making a generalised observation.

You might be right and remember my post wasn’t commenting on Nat and Alex specifically. However, and mean this with the greatest of respect to yourself, even though you’ve been involved with Alex you still don’t truly know how Alex and Nat communicate in private between just the two of them.

The reason I commented is because I’ve recently seen this same kind of mob mentality happen against some genuinely nice people who have kept their association because they were sincerely trying to rehabilitate others. So they didn’t deserve guilt by association. But their cases were different to these ones.

Anyhow I’m not here to defend Nat nor Alex (I don’t even know them) and this is a understandably going to be a highly emotionally charged subject so I’ll refrain from further comments because sometimes my well intentioned remarks can come across poor (totally my issue. I’m working on fixing it).

I do truly wish you happiness in any future relationships and hope this nightmare you’ve been through doesn’t leave any scares (emotional or physical) that cannot heal.

I initially approached Nat about with this with a great deal of empathy towards Alex in spite of what he did to me. Ignoring a victim and giving a leadership position to someone like that?

How about their podcast together?

You can confirm that by Google their names and 'ximian'.

this is quite damning if so. where did you hear of this?

They did not report his location to the authorities and allowed him to work across state lines without any changes to his employment agreement.

I later asked Github HR what their policy on domestic violene is. This is what they sent.

"Microsoft is committed to working with employees who are victims of domestic violence to prevent abuse from occurring in the workplace. Employees who are concerned about violence occurring in the workplace should immediately discuss their concerns with the Human Resources (HR) manager assigned to their group. The Microsoft Global Security group can provide guidelines and suggestions for increasing your safety in the workplace.

Employees who are experiencing domestic violence outside of work are encouraged to seek assistance from Microsoft Cares. Microsoft Cares provides information regarding counseling and treatment resources. Perpetrators of domestic violence are also encouraged to seek assistance from Microsoft Cares.

In some situations, employees may be eligible for time off work or other accommodation to manage medical issues and other negative consequences arising from domestic violence. Contact Benefits for more information."

They officially accommodate "perpetrators of domestic violence" as Microsoft-owned Github.

In fairness, they do need procedures to accommodate such people. Your other employment-related rights don't end just because you've done bad stuff, and you need to treat perpetrators of domestic violence differently to ordinary employees (e.g. being really suspicious of them).

I like bashing Microsoft as much as the next person, but I doubt this situation had much to do with Microsoft's domestic violence policies.

I’m guessing if this guy actually contacted Cares, they’d be more likely to help him turn himself in without violence, than to arrange a getaway to Cuba.

[I used such a referral once with a different employer to assist a family member in a legal matter (not involving interpersonal violence)].

To take action against someone based on an unproven accusation of conduct outside of the workplace seems like the perfect way to get you sued. I'm sure if convicted he will become persona non grata. But until that point he should be entitled to the presumption of innocence.

The justice system is complex for a reason (oversight, transparency, accountability, fairness, etc. - or at least that's the goal, however bad they are at achieving it, unaccountable private institutions will be even worse).

Furthermore, Alex was reported to Github HR by multiple people for verbal abuse and nothing was done about it under Nat Friedman's leadership.

I was saying the blanket statement than the mere presence of any allegations of any form are enough to indicate a high probability of guilt, and we should therefore enforce punishment on an individual is dangerous. Historically, this sort of attitude has led to a lot of injustice. Black men being put in jail for crimes they never committed on the word of a white woman who was embarrassed to be caught in an affair, for instance. Taken to the extreme, it leads to things like witch hunts.

A lot of that same stuff got turned into threats eventually.

I read the entire string of messages. You pulled inflammatory things out of context to DAMN him, and posted it all over twitter, etc. Who does that? What does that say about you to post negative gossip about someone from a private intimate relationship ? Do you ever ask yourself why you’re posting malicious things about someone? Is it justice you seek? It almost sounds like a HUMBLE BRAG to get attention, like “oh I’m hot stuff bc I dated the Hackpad founder?” If Alex wasn’t famous, would you still post this stuff? I don’t think so.

And do you really think you’re doing justice by posting about some fight you guys had on twitter out of context? Who are you saving from alleged abuse? Someone who googles you or Alex like a stalker the way you do?

And ask yourself why it’s still 2 years and you’re still suffering and obsessed? You clearly need some intervention, love. Please focus on forgiveness, healing, and loving others and yourself

Allegedly misogynistic != actually misogynistic, and I’d personally not want Microsoft to be the arbiter of truth.

Also, it’s just wrong and immoral. If the allegations are true, him losing his job is to small of a punishment; if they’re false, it’s too big of a punishment.

If he’s innocent (i.e. “not guilty”), yes.

It’s funny how people are all about “restorative justice” and “rehabilitating criminals after they serve their sentences” except, you know, when it comes to actually doing it.

I've spoken to many people that say the same thing.

I think this confirms we're in some sort of inter-terrestrial waking-nightmare Office Space alternative universe variety show.

That is a somewhat bizarre sentence that should be brought to the editorial attention of whoever wrote that. I don't think it's intended to support some of the kinds of interpretations that imagination might assign to it.

definitely not what I expected to read, that's... huh.

I'd expect MS would divulge his IP address from VPN logs if served by a warrant, to locate the fugitive. I wonder if this happened, and if not, what legal responsibilities or liabilities MS has to help or hinder outside warrant compliance, when the victim isn't an employee but the perp is.

(I work for MS but not GitHub, I had no idea about any of this.)

In what capacity? How did you come by your knowledge of the warrant?

Why would this matter at all? It seems like you're casting suspicion on [name redacted], although I can't begin to imagine what there is to be suspicious of.

I can't either

I dont know who the people tagged in the tweet are, but that still seems like a shitty way to report a problem.

Nonreporting, whether or not one believes it is immoral, isn't the same thing as assistance in evading arrest. The government can conscript citizens into active assistance in enforcing the law, but issuing a warrant doesn't do that.

Nonreporting is legal, assistance is a crime (“accessory after the fact” is the general term.)

Texas Penal Code Sec. 38.05 Hindering Apprehension or Prosecution (a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to hinder the arrest, prosecution, conviction, or punishment of another for an offense or, with intent to hinder the arrest, detention, adjudication, or disposition of a child for engaging in delinquent conduct that violates a penal law of the state, or with intent to hinder the arrest of another under the authority of a warrant or capias, he: (1) harbors or conceals the other; (2) provides or aids in providing the other with any means of avoiding arrest or effecting escape; or (3) warns the other of impending discovery or apprehension.

https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._penal_code_section_38...

I appreciate the rest of the details you've provided on the thread!

No, nonreporting is not. Active concealment/assistance is, and you just quoted a long bit of statute that says exactly that.

If the police had at all reached out in an official capacity Microsoft would have assisted.

Source: was employed at MS and know they take such things seriously.

You may want to follow up with whatever officer you talked to.

In the absence of some substantial reason to believe this part, this is quite likely actionable as libel against Microsoft (as well as, without including substantial reason to believe it, wholly inappropriate for HN.)

I'm convinced this post is satire. Too many unlikely claims, against one .jpg in Google Drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya_Rhodes-Conway

You make several significant, serious claims but offer no evidence aside from a jpg of a file in google drive.

For reference, the Austin city/Travis county public records results are returned as pdfs, not scans in jpg. The clerk of the court does not offer "unofficial copies" as far as I am aware.